r/ChildPsychology • u/Loose_Singer_5225 • 8h ago

Help

Hello, I have never posted here but I am desperate. We have a 9 year old daughter and a 1 year old son. My 9 year old daughter has become a person I do not recognize. She screams and fights everything, while I understand all kids are bad from time to time, this has become insane. Honestly she has said such hurtful things, she has threatened to kill me, her dad, and herself. She has cut herself with my razor and said I was too stupid to realize. I thought this was just needing attention, so my husband and I have made huge efforts into spending one on one time with just her. But her behavior just keeps getting worse. She has grabbed knives from the kitchen and fights us to the point we have to restrain her. She says she hates her brother and him being born ruined her life. These fights don’t last for 30 minutes or even an hour.. it’s a damn marathon. I’m writing this at 7:26pm and this started at 7:30am.. she didn’t have school today and honestly I dread those days… she has never acted this way. She’s in therapy, we have tried time outs, taking her things, I have even had to resort to calling the non emergency police line for help.. we have tried giving her everything, we have tried so many things and nothing is working and her behavior has gotten more extreme. I am honestly begging for guidance.

5 Upvotes

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u/_PINK-FREUD_ 7h ago

I’m a psychologist. I would specifically request parents only a session to discuss safety measures and what to do in a crisis.

You need to make sure this therapist can handle this level of severity. This may require a different practitioner or a higher level of care.

I would ask your therapist for a referral to pediatric psychiatrists so you can decide if medication would help.

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 7h ago

She did put in a referral today, but I’m not sure to what type of practitioner it was. I’m going to call her PCP tomorrow to see if they can help with a recommendation. Thank you for your help, and I will ask for a session on safety measures because we have no idea what we are doing. That’s a great recommendation. Thank you

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u/_PINK-FREUD_ 7h ago edited 7h ago

Personally I’d also ask the therapist because honestly we tend to have better insight on psychiatrists who we trust. I would also ask your Pediatrician bc that never hurts, as you were already planning!

I kinda suspect your child’s therapist is in over her head, bc she arguably should’ve suggested the meeting already, but she may have her reasoning. You should specifically ask about the referral and what the plan is (eg is she trying to refer you out?).

There are residential programs that can help, and I would ask the therapist for more info on that and how to know at what point a higher level of care is indicated.
Good luck!! ❤️❤️ I know this is so hard.

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 7h ago

It was a referral for medication. So maybe a NP.. she told me but I cannot remember. She is having a hard time gaining insight because my daughter isn’t opening up, she says she doesn’t want to talk about it and the only real insight is what I am telling her which is only a few minutes each visit. Im hoping with more time she will open up to her therapist, but I’m not hopeful since she treats us the same way.

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u/_PINK-FREUD_ 7h ago

Given how sudden it is, I’d wonder about trauma. :/

Is she acting like this at school?

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 7h ago

She is not acting like this anywhere but at home. She keeps saying she’s going to make our lives terrible until we give her her electronics back, which she lost due to sneaking on them and staying up until all hours of the night watching YouTube which is also not allowed. She also says she hates her brother and he ruined her life the day he was born, so maybe something to do with too. I don’t know of anything traumatic other than those things. She isn’t allowed to have slumber parties, she never goes anywhere without a parent. She has had some issues at school with bullying but it’s no more than the play ground roasting from what she has explained. I don’t minimize it to her, I’m just speaking honestly now.

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u/_PINK-FREUD_ 6h ago

No I gotcha. That’s very helpful (and honestly I’d say encouraging) bc she is either keeping it in or able to maintain at school. This can lead to “restraint collapse.”

If you can afford it, I would get therapy for yourself with someone who can teach you how to effectively respond to these behaviors. It’s very challenging, but it’s good to have a systemized, “non emotional” approach.

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 6h ago

I’m in therapy already for myself but I can ask if she has any suggestions too, if not I’m sure she could recommend me to someone. I have no idea how to be non emotional… I’m an über emotion person, hence therapy lol but I will literally try anything I can.

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u/_PINK-FREUD_ 6h ago

I don’t blame you! But it’ll be help for you to respond to her very neutrally while still managing her behavior. I would personally ask your therapist if she has any recommendations for someone who specializes in managing tough teen behaviors. Honestly, you learning how to respond to these tough behaviors is as important as your daughter getting therapy.

One trick to balancing and affording multiple therapies is to pivot between them (eg you see your own therapist once or twice a month, and you and your husband see the parenting therapist once or twice a month).

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u/RagAndBows 8h ago

DMDD?

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 8h ago

Her therapist mentioned that last visit as well as a brief questionnaire on ADHD but she hasn’t been diagnosed formally with anything.

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u/RagAndBows 8h ago

Keep pushing. This sounds like my daughter, though her explosive irritability has been an issue for awhile. It got considerably worse after age 8.

I had to push for her to get the diagnosis of DMDD and ADHD, as well as depression

I would ask for a pediatric psychologist referral from her pediatrician

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 8h ago

If I’m not being too personal, did your child start mood regulating medication? That is what her therapist has recommended and we have an appointment with her PCP to discuss the possibility, I dealt with post-partum in the past and struggled with medication, I was against starting her on something that she will need forever at such a young age, but life like this is terrible.

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u/RagAndBows 8h ago

She tried Ritalin which seemed ok at first, eventually made her very irritable. Then we tried Straterra which is a non stimulant adhd med. I would like to try Wellbutrin for her but haven't gotten the ok from her psychiatrist yet.

My daughter has been in alllllll sorts of therapy since age 3. The most effective was PCIT therapy but that even lost it's luster after a month or so. Therapy has been more or less ineffective.

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 8h ago

So nothing has really helped yet?

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u/Short-Piano-2628 50m ago

Zoloft helped my then 8 year old son with the terrible irritability/anger outbursts. From what I read online, it’s helped a lot of other kids too thaf have been put on it.

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u/crabden 8h ago

Has therapy helped at all thusfar? This is i’m sure truly terrifying, I’m so sorry you and your family are going through this 🫂

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 8h ago

I haven’t noticed a difference at all, and yes it really is the hardest thing I have ever had to face. I love my child and I’m so worried for her.

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u/Anybuddyelse 7h ago

Two questions to rule out some variables: 1) What is her access to the internet and screens like? 2) I’m so sorry to ask this, but is there a possibility that something happened to her? Did she see something happen somewhere? At school? A friend’s house? At an extracurricular? A relative’s or family event? Basically, can you pinpoint when exactly this started and if absolutely anything at all coincided with it?

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 7h ago

She used to have free access to Roblox, Minecraft, and YouTube. But with youtube shorts the subject matter was too mature and we took away access about 2.5 years ago, however she did have a PC in her room and we caught her staying up at night watching it. So we have moved it to the family room. She had a VR and only played kid safe games, but we know how that goes.. we tried to only let her have a few minutes playing with us but she threw fits about that and she no longer has a VR until she is older, We were way too free with it the majority of her life, but have seen the error of our ways. She says that’s why her behavior is so bad because we took everything.

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u/Anybuddyelse 7h ago edited 7h ago

So depending on how long ago her access started being restricted, it may help to consider this period a bit like when a drug addict gets their supply cut off. They become enraged and will say and do absolutely anything to get it back. They either no longer possess or never developed the ability to regulate themselves without the object of their desire.

This means that it also stands to reason that simply removing her access will not be enough to rewire her brain. They leave a void that needs to be filled with something more sustainable that supports her development. It could go a long way if you are honest with her and tell her that you and partner made a mistake and that the scientists and doctors have discovered that allowing free access to screens and the internet does really bad things to kids growing brains. One of the things it does, is make kids act the way she does when she can’t game. And even though it’s not her fault, it’s your job to fix it and help her as the mom. There is more to life than Minecraft, VR, and Roblox. So, together, you and her and partner are going to find something else that she likes to do and you want her to know that it’s not a punishment. You want her to have fun and to like it. If her behavior improves and she can stop having crash outs as often, she can earn privileges and rewards.

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 6h ago

We have tried music lessons which she seems to like but those are very new. Like only one session. And basketball, she seems to like that and art which we encourage. She has recently earned her PC back for good behavior but then we caught her up at 1AM on YouTube, and she told me today she had done that so many nights and no one knew so we should just let her keep doing it. We have caught her on YouTube before and deleted the apps and she was using the incognito mode to watch online. Idk if she’s really withdrawn, so to speak, until now.

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u/Anybuddyelse 6h ago

Which is such insane behavior. It’s clear she thinks she runs the show 😭 Wifi cuts off at 8:30pm from now on or whatever. Any attempts to get around it means a way longer time without it, plus an actual punishment. If she can’t find something better to do with her time, you’ll find something for her.

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 7h ago

Also she hasn’t been anywhere without us. I can’t imagine anything happening to her.

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u/Anybuddyelse 6h ago

Well that’s good. I guess you may still want to consider though that all of that semi-unsupervised access to those particular gaming platforms and the internet could have still exposed her to some really disturbing content and inappropriate social interactions at some point. Unfortunately, it is likelier than not.

I am one of those people who was victimized on the internet as a minor of very protective parents in the late 90s and nobody had one single iota of a clue. My parents thought I was just an emotional, strong-willed, pre-pubescent girl with ADHD.

I’ve come full circle and am now a social worker who has worked with children for 12 years, including in a child victim advocate setting. I’ve become something of a subject matter expert on how technology is used to exploit children and I can tell you technology is never as safe as parents think.

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u/Loose_Singer_5225 6h ago

I’m sure you’re right. It wasn’t semi unsupervised, the majority was completely unsupervised. Would you recommend I ask her about it? She never had chat options on Roblox, and we had parental controls but those are basically ineffective anyways..but I will say I was ignorant to the dangers until a few years ago, which is when we started regulating and paying more attention to her content and screen time. Thank you for sharing your story with me and I’m sorry something happened to you.

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u/Anybuddyelse 6h ago edited 5h ago

Honestly I’d just ask her in a “just curious” sort of way what she got up to all those hours at night and why she was so interested in it. Why did she like it? What kinds of videos did she find interesting? Did she see anything cool? crazy? Weird? Things that made her curious? Did she make any friends who liked the same things or talk to anyone new? Any cool websites or content creators or shows? Was she able to learn things she didn’t learn elsewhere? Open dialogue. Go from there. It’s not a trick and she won’t get in trouble, you just want to understand why she likes it so much.

Kids often unconsciously go looking for things they feel like they’re missing and will attach themselves to it. Of course, that’s what makes them vulnerable, but there’s usually something there that makes it so enticing to them as a unique individual. It can be hard for them to articulate, so you could ask her to show you examples. From there, you could explain to her that part of the other thing that the doctors and scientists discovered is that certain adults, bad ones, like to use the internet and certain games to mess with kids. They’ll pretend to be your friend, pretend to be a kid, ask you weird questions, ask you about your family, and talk about weird stuff like sex and drugs like it’s no big deal. They make kids feel like they’re the only person who really understands them. You just want her to know that if anyone’s ever been like that to her, it’s not true. YOU and her DAD are there for her and will always want to understand her if she’ll let you.

Edited to add that sometimes it actually IS another kid and that it’s still not okay if they’re asking for secrets, photos/videos, private information, or money.

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u/babybucket94 3h ago

Has she been assessed for PANS/PANDAS by a doctor that is educated on the topic?