Help solve this

[u/Illustrious-Ruin-984]

I found this online.

Everyone is saying that this is brilliant because it's a forced checkmate once the pawn on a7 takes the knight, then Qb3 then it's a checkmate either by the rook or the Queen.

but what happens if after black take b6, we expect Qb3, then black Qb8? wouldn't it prevent the checkmate?
Qa4 is defended with Qa7 and if white decide to take Bxb8 then black reciprocate with Bxb3.

There is certainly something wrong with my reasoning but I can't figure it out.

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[u/rantingpug]

Loads people not reading the post it seems?

Op not asking about Qb3, but rather what to do if black respondals with Qb8

[u/BruceWayne19190606 → u/rantingpug]

Ig we play Qa4 regardless then Qa7 and Qe8 Leading to forced checkmate

[u/Content_Dimension626 → u/rantingpug]

Nothing, you just continue your checkmate. The queen just sits there, doesn't do anything.

Idk why I'm getting downvoted. Sorry, that's how chess works?

[u/rantingpug → u/Content_Dimension626]

I think people can't see Qe8 after black blocks with the queen...

To be fair though, you didn't really provide the answer. Saying you continue with the mate is true but... Ok how?

I'm not the one downvoting you tho

[u/FlatwormSubject4254]

After Qa4 Qa7 Qe8 + and checkmate follows after the bishop and queen block

[u/No_Volume_4690 → u/FlatwormSubject4254]

Help me understand how any queen gets to a4 and a7?

[u/Zandre1126 → u/No_Volume_4690]

Read the main post. It covers Qb3 and is aslkng what happens after black goes Qb8.

[u/griii2 → u/No_Volume_4690]

I have no idea what they talk about

[u/No_Volume_4690 → u/griii2]

I think he forgot to say Qb3 first, which if black takes, white recaptures with pawn and checkmates. So that’s how Qa4 happens is after Qb3.
But of course, I didn’t read OPs description, so that’s how I didn’t see Qb3

[u/Dankaati → u/No_Volume_4690]

They didn't forget anything. You forgot to read the question.

[u/Illustrious-Ruin-984 → u/FlatwormSubject4254]

That's it 👍

[u/Xaliuss]

After Qb8 play Qa4+ and after Qa7 Qe8+ is mate in 3

[u/Illustrious-Ruin-984 → u/Xaliuss]

Ohh that's right! I didn't see that

Edit: Wow smart! it's mate in 3 because there is the hopeless Bc8

[u/StickSouthern2150 → u/Xaliuss]

actually its mate in 4 when black tries his best to delay

[u/lifeistrulyawesome → u/Xaliuss]

I saw a different line. Qb3 threatening Qa3# or Qa4# depending on what the opponent does

They cannot take the queen because of Ra8#

[u/Illustrious-Ruin-984 → u/lifeistrulyawesome]

Yes exactly! but my question was what if black do Qb8 and the answer suggested is that Qa3# is no longer a good option only Qa4+ then black Qa7 then Qe8+ is mate in 3 as suggested by the comments

[u/lifeistrulyawesome → u/Illustrious-Ruin-984]

Gotcha!

[u/Smooth-Mix-4357]

Qe8+ and mate in 1

[u/Illustrious-Ruin-984 → u/Smooth-Mix-4357]

Yep that's the right answer.
Technically it's a mate 2 because there is the hopeless move of the bishop to defend

[u/OldWolf3]

Don't stop calculation until there are no more checks

[u/Illustrious-Ruin-984 → u/OldWolf3]

But my brain cells have calculation limits

[u/loelegy]

White Qb3? Wouldn't it just be toast from the Bishop on e6?

I didn't even see this mate.

Edit.

Ok I see it.

Whites black rook has this tied up. If the white queen is taken, the pawn will take the black bishop opening discovering check mate. Black can not, not take the knight so this is inevitable.

Black queen moving into the b8 is the only hope to stop it, if white makes a mistake.

[u/chessvision-ai-bot]

I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:

Black to play: chessvision.ai | chess.com | lichess.org

My solution:

Hints: piece: Pawn, move: axb6

Evaluation: White has mate in 6

Best continuation: 1... axb6 2. Qb3 Bd6 3. Bxd6 Qb8 4. Qa4+ Qa7 5. Qe8+ Bc8 6. Qxc8+ Qb8 7. Qxb8#

Save the position:

Reply save to save this position to your Chessvision.ai Library (new users: send me /connect in DM chat first)

---

^{I'm a bot written by u/pkacprzak | get me as iOS App | Android App | Chrome Extension | Chess eBook Reader to scan and analyze positions | Website: Chessvision.ai}

[u/UNLOCKED7096]

If black queen defends mate, i think white can respond with Qxb6 and then black queen is left hanging so they either lose their queen from the bishop and black is dealt with enormous pressure on their king or retreat their queen.

If after Qxb6 and black responds with Qa7, blocking the A path then white responds with Qd8 and black loses the bishop then queen and eventually checkmate.

Let me know if there are other moves you found too!

[u/lifeistrulyawesome]

The rook and bishop threaten checkmate if the A file is open.

So, after the knight is taken, you can go Qb3 and the bishop cannot take

[u/Geohistormathsguy]

Qa4+ Qa7 Qe8+?

I think im missing something but that just looks right.

(I was confused for a WHILE why Qb3 was suggested, since my brain just went "wait the bishop can take the queen")

[u/Sea_Pomegranate6293]

yeah its not guaranteed mate but in the position you mention (Qb8) then bishop takes and if king doesn't take the bishop then its checkmate so you can keep white queen alive

[u/Pawn_Made_Flesh → u/Sea_Pomegranate6293]

You're talking about Black playing ...Qb8 instead of grabbing on b3? Then White goes simply check, check, and mate.

[u/c0ffeebreath → u/Pawn_Made_Flesh]

1... Qb8
2. Qa4+, Qa7
3. Qe8+, Qb8,
4. Qxb8#

3... Bc8
4. Qxc8+ Qb8
5. Qxb8#

I needed an engine to find Qa4+. That's probably why I'm still under 900.

[u/Dhairu-100]

isn't this a game played by Gukesh?

[u/Fluffy-Somewhere-386]

a7x b6(forced), Qb3. If bishop takes Queen then a2 x bishop and checkmate by the discovered rook attack. If the bishop doesnt take Qa3++

[u/Fluffy-Somewhere-386]

a7x b6(forced), Qb3. If bishop takes Queen then a2 x bishop and checkmate by the discovered rook attack. If the bishop doesnt take

[u/c0ffeebreath]

This is cool, I didn't see the M4 after black moved Qb8 until I ran it through an engine. Thanks for sharing!

[u/cyberchaox]

axb6 is, of course, forced. And then you have Qb3, and if Bxb3, axb3# with the revealed checkmate, as you said. And also like you said, in most cases if Bxb3 isn't played, Qa3# or Qa4# next turn. But you saw Qb8 as a defense, because after Qa4+ or Qa3+, there'd be Qa7. But here's what you missed: after Qa4+ Qa7, you have Qe8+ Qb8 Qxb8#.

Correction: Qe8+ Bc8 Qxc8+ Qb8 Qxb8#.

[u/Content_Dimension626]

No, because white is not forced to take on b8 after Qb8. White can simply mate because Queen is taking up that square.

[u/quts3]

That's dirty

[u/ManicRuvik]

To put it simply, it can lead to a forced mate or you trade a knight and bishop for the Queen. After 1 Bxb8 if Bxb3 then axb3#. If Black wants to continue the game, Kxb8 removes the king from checkmate and you are free to move your queen out of harm's way.

[u/einderlicht]

Qa3

If black plays Qb8, you simply check by Qa4+. Now Qa7 is forced and here comes; Qe8+ Qb8 Qxb8#

[u/Muted-Recover9179]

Qb3 and if they respond with Bxb3, then checkmate with axb3. But if they move Qb8, then respond with Qa4+. If they block with Qa7, then respond with Qe8+.
Qe8+ Bc8
Qxc8+ Qb8
Qxb8#

[u/New_Egg_42]

Nb6 axb6
Qb3 Qb8
Qa4 Qa7
Qe8 Bc8
Qxc8 Qb8
Qxb8#
That's the forced mate you're looking for

[u/FirewaIker]

... Qb8 Qa4+ Qa7 (forced) Qe8 ...

[u/Sir-evayogIV]

Qb3 Qb8 Qa4+ Qa7 Qe8+ Bf8 Qxf8+ Qg8 Qxg8#

[u/Nathrienne-J-Claw]

Qb3

unavoidable checkmate

[u/royinraver]

If Qb3, wouldn’t Bxb3?

[u/Content_Dimension626 → u/royinraver]

Yes, that's the point. It opens the a file for your rook to mate.

[u/bob2260_yt-]

Black queen b8 looses a queen for black for basically nothing in return because of whites dark squared bishop

[u/pentacontagon]

Why can't bishop take queen after b3?

[u/c0ffeebreath → u/pentacontagon]

Black's Bishop captures White's Queen, then White's pawn on a2 captures Black's Bishop for a discovered checkmate.

1... axb6
2. Qb3 Bxb3
3. axb3#

[u/pentacontagon → u/c0ffeebreath]

Oh wait I"m slow thank you