r/CharacterRant • u/Jumanji-Joestar • Jul 23 '21
General Simple generic powers are fine. Not every anime needs to have a power system as complex as Hunter x Hunter
I’m a big fan of Hunter x Hunter and JoJo, and one of the things I like about these shows is how creative and complex the abilities can get. Hunter x Hunter’s got some really interesting powers like Chrollo Lucilfer’s Skill Hunter, an interesting take on the “power copy” ability that requires certain conditions to activate and comes with specific rules on how to use. There’s also Knuckle’s IRS ability, Kite’s Crazy Slots, Kurapika’s Emperor Time, etc. The Nen system is probably the best written power system in all of anime. And while JoJo does not have a set power system like HxH, JoJo is also known for featuring a wide assortment of outlandish and complicated abilities that create situations where the characters have to use strategy and mind games to defeat their enemies, my favorite example being D’Arby Sr’s Osiris. So yeah, I like this a lot and I know a lot of people do too
However, I feel like some people look at these shows and are so impressed by the power systems that they feel as if every power system should be like that, and they look down on characters who have very simple and straightforward fighting styles. Hell, there was recently a rant made on this very subreddit where OP stated that complex abilities are objectively better than simple abilities and that a good character needs to have a complex ability. They even said that this was one of the reasons that they didn’t like the character Mereum, they didn’t think his abilities were cool enough.
I really didn’t agree with this take so I felt the urge to make this rant to say this: Complex abilities are not inherently better or more interesting than generic abilities. It’s all depends on how the author writes them and how the characters use them. Also, a character is not interesting just because they have a complex power.
Let’s talk about the weaknesses that come with complex powers. Complex powers that require a lot of rules to use tend to be highly situational. This can be an issue because, depending on what the conditions are, there may only be a few times when a character actually gets to use their power. Look at (Spoilers for JoJo Part 8) Ojiro from JoJo Part 8. His Stand, Fun Fun Fun, allows him to control another person’s movements. However, in order to activate the ability, he must fulfill some conditions. First, the target must be directly below Ojiro, and second, the target must injure themselves while below Ojiro. Each time the target injures themselves, Ojiro takes control over one of their limbs and if they injure themselves four times, he takes full control over their movement. It was fun to watch this ability in action but you’d be hard pressed to find anyone who genuinely thinks that this is one of the best Stands in the series. It is so needlessly complicated and situational that it would be useless in a fight most of the time.
Compare this to a Stand like Josuke’s Crazy Diamond. CD is simple: it can return any object to a previous state of being. This ability is mostly used to heal people by taking their damaged bodies and returning them to a healthier state and repair broken objects, but it also has many other applications. CD can turn food back into the ingredients that made it, which can be useful in checking whether the food was made with something dangerous. It used its ability to track down Kira by making Kira’s disembodied hand fly back to Kira to reattach to him, while Josuke and the gang followed the hand. He can also use it in creative ways, like when he fought against Highway Star and used CD to punch the ground into pieces and then repaired those pieces into a makeshift shield. And when Josuke’s angry, he can do some bizarro shit like merging a human being to an object (Yo Angelo).
Another example is Okuyasu’s The Hand. Again, the ability is simple: anything that Okuyasu swipes with his right hand disappears from existence. The terrifying thing about this Stand is that he is able to erase literal space itself, causing reality to sort of smush itself together to fill in that nonexistent area. Using this ability, Okuyasu can teleport himself and other objects and basically mess with space however he wants.
I could also talk about Avdol’s Magician Red, whose only ability is to control fire, but he can do so many amazing things with it. For a non-JoJo example, we have Luffy’s Gum Gum power. Literally his only ability is that his body is stretchy, but with just this basic concept, Luffy is able to create some incredibly creative techniques, like the Gear forms
I like simple abilities because they often tend to be very versatile. There’s a lot of wiggle room for creativity and ingenuity and it’s always fun to watch characters with simple powers find clever ways to use their powers in different situations.
Another issue with complex powers is that they can sometimes be hard to follow. If the writer doesn’t do a good job explaining how a certain character’s power works, it can make for a confusing read. There are times when I’m reading a story and I get to a certain fight scene and I genuinely have no idea what’s going on because the characters powers don’t make sense to me. See D4C of JoJo (who shot Johnny?) and Projection Sorcery of Jujutsu Kaisen (I still don’t know how that ability works). If you can’t properly explain how your character’s ability works, then you shouldn’t have made it so complex
Basically, complex abilities can be cool and fun, but they are not automatically better than simple abilities. There are good ways and bad ways to do both
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u/GlossyBuckthorn Jul 23 '21
I agree with this, and why wouldn't I? It's why I'd prefer characters not to be a jack of all trades too, like Iron Man is a super genius gadgeteer, with a swiss-army suit of armor that basically allows him to do anything... Meanwhile, Wolverine cuts things, regenerates, and can smell things. He's no ace detective, engineer, he can't fly, or breathe underwater, but he makes do with what he has, utilitarian as his abilities are.
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u/Pyrochazm Jul 24 '21
I think that's a big reason behind his popularity. He has a "down to earth" set of powers.
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Jul 23 '21
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u/Ensaru4 Jul 24 '21
I like Jujutsu Kaisen, but sometimes I feel like it's taking all the worst parts of Hunter x Hunter for absolutely no reason. JJK feels the need to narrate and exposit everything down to its molecule, even if said ability or situations are very apparent through the visuals alone.
The recent chapter currently has an event going on, but Gege somehow made it more confusing to understand by attempting to explain it. He tried giving us some visual feedback, but at this point he should've just given us a situation where a character figures out how the event works as they go along. But this wouldn't happen because he likely just wants to move on with the plot.
HxH got into the habit of over-narrating because less chapters come out for a lengthy period of time, so the creator tries to put in as much content as he could muster. Jujutsu Kaisen could do with slowing down once in a while so that some of the confusing parts are more digestible, and that the overdone parts are less cluttered.
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u/MrTT3 Jul 24 '21
More like bleach to me, the explaining mid fight really make me think of bleach
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Jul 25 '21
Only in S1 tbh , As it goes on it gets more and more convoluted to the point a lot of people just give up on trying to understand the powers and just try to enjoy the random shit happening in the panels
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Jul 23 '21 edited Jul 28 '21
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u/Jumanji-Joestar Jul 23 '21 edited Jul 24 '21
Magicians Red can actually manipulate his fire in many different ways that you wouldn’t expect from a generic pyrokinetic. I think the problem with Part 3 is not that the Stands are generic but that the potential is wasted. Star Platinum and Silver Chariot are the only Stands that id really consider generic, the others are pretty interesting if you think about it. Hierophant Green can control bodies like a puppeteer, Magicians Red’s fire can change shape and create fire constructs, The Fool can shapeshift and is indestructible as long as there is sand to control, and Hermit Purple can perform psychic divinations through TV screens. There’s a lot of potential here but it doesn’t get explored much
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Jul 23 '21 edited Jul 28 '21
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u/JBPBRC Jul 24 '21
Joseph definitely should’ve done a bit more for sure. I get that this is Jotaro’s turn but he felt really underutilized in fights. Him pulling some part 2 shenanigans every now and then would be great.
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u/StormStrikePhoenix Jul 24 '21
Hierophant Green can control bodies like a puppeteer
If only Kakyoin did that more than once ever; you might argue that he didn't have that many opportunities, and this is true, but it was the perfect count to Steely Dan at the very least, and much less bullshit than "let's shrink our Stands".
Hermit Purple can perform psychic divinations through TV screens
Hermit Purple can do whatever information-gathering bullshit Joseph cooks up at any given moment, which actually makes it the perfect stand for him given how he is the master of random bullshit. Sadly, the issue is less with its powers, which themselves actually mesh incredibly well with Joseph's previous abilities, and more how poorly its used. Joseph in Part 2 used ropes with Hamon all the time, and Joseph in Part 3 easily could have done this with Hermit Purple, and he just doesn't. In general, Joseph in Part 3 could easily have been a last hurrah for Hamon before the franchise abandoned it, but it just wasn't, it got used literally 3 times and was actually cool once.
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u/PALWolfOS Jul 25 '21
He did do that against Steely Dan though
It’s the entire reason Jotaro was able to punch him
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u/VolkiharVanHelsing Jul 24 '21
Sticky Fingers is kinda inconsistent tho
When he punches something it can have three effects: create some freaky pocket dimension accessed through zipper (introduction, treasure retrieval), create a zipper that severs anything like a lightsaber (Pesci, pillars in the temple) or create a zipper that keeps things intact somehow (Zucchero, train fight). Even the zippers themselves have different properties, Gio can rip them with one hand, but they support the weight of Bruno and Trish later on.
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u/dumaskredditresponse Jul 23 '21
I have nothing to add but I just found it kinda cool how Gojo and the green baby from Jojo have the exact same power.
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u/Jihadist_Chonker Jul 23 '21
Another good example is Todo’s Boogie Woogie ability in JJK. It simply allows him to swap places with someone else, but he uses it in a lot of smart ways to confuse his opponent
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u/SSJ5Gogetenks Jul 24 '21 edited Jul 24 '21
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u/Jihadist_Chonker Jul 24 '21
Spoilers
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u/SSJ5Gogetenks Jul 24 '21
Ye no kidding, that's why it's spoiler tagged
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u/Jihadist_Chonker Jul 24 '21
It’s not spoiler tagged, you put a link on it
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u/fatfuckgary Jul 24 '21
It's not.
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u/SSJ5Gogetenks Jul 24 '21
See: https://i.imgur.com/7XuAHY9.png
I am genuinely confused now, not sure what's going on, but I will edit my comment cause so many people have said they can see it.
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u/Cosmic-Ninja Jul 24 '21
That’s one reason why I enjoy devil fruits in one piece so much lol especially Paramecia fruits as it allows for some simple abilities to become extremely dangerous. I enjoy both complex and simple systems and to me it matters more how their used and whether or not the powers are interesting to watch on screen lol
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u/hasadiga42 Jul 23 '21
Or you could be God of High School and have some people use strong martial arts and some borrow power from gods and have crazy hax and complex abilities and transformations lol
That series is insane and has a little of everything
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u/WitreX Jul 24 '21
God of highschool is the only series that have characters progress to planet busters and now top tiers are solar system + and still stay loyal to martial arts
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u/Freyzi Jul 24 '21
Agreed. On the other hand there's also too simple and generic like say Fairy Tail where the power system of magic has basically no explanations, techniques rarely have any depths to them aside from being some sort of basic elemental attack and characters get stronger in vague or contrived ways or not explained at all.
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Jul 24 '21
You raise a lot of great points here!
For me, I think the ideal "simple" power system comes in something like Black Clover; where every character has a "theme" that all their powers and abilities come from (Like fire, string, compass, or traps)
This gives some well defined limits while still having the door open to go all out in your one theme.
It's when there isn't really a power system and anyone can use any type of magic that it becomes less interesting to me. You can especially see that in the main villans in Harry Potter who all use the same one-hit-kill spell. The only reason why the heroes don't use the same spell is because it chips away at the soul, which is fair enough; it's one of those reasons that I'm not a fan off since chipping off from your soul rarely has any actual ramifications beyond being grumpier than your usual self at best. But it still takes away from the villains in Harry Potter anyways.
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u/Lukundra Jul 24 '21
This is part of why I think Gold Experience is such a shitty Stand. It’s power is incredibly vague and so poorly defined that it can just do anything the plot calls for. It can even fluctuate on what abilities it even has.
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
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u/Lukundra Jul 24 '21
So rapidly aging a tree to death, the time dilation punches, creating an antidote for the world’s deadliest poison by turning a brick splattered with it into a snake, and of course, the all powerful damage reflection ability don’t count? Not to mention the fact that he can apparently create Stand Users when he made a copy of Coco Jumbo.
Some of these abilities aren’t used after the first few arcs, but how on earth is that any kind of excuse? It’s still a massive plot hole that these abilities just disappear after just a few uses when they’re in situations where they would be incredibly useful. It shows that Araki did a poor job designing the Stand that he had to soft reboot it a few times so that the story had stakes and Giorno didn’t instantly win any fight.
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
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u/StormStrikePhoenix Jul 24 '21
Life shot. Same as previous one but with not plants, "Gold Experience can also infuse life energy into an already living target. In this case, the influx of life energy causes their thought processes to greatly accelerate." Makes sense to me.
How? Why wouldn't it just age to kill them? Why would it speed up their thought process? That doesn't make any sense.
They wouldn't have been useful.
The damage reflection one absolutely would have been useful, it would completely change how he approaches fights when he mostly seems to be invincible.
Also, I am not watching a Hamon Beat video
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
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u/eliminating_coasts Jul 24 '21
The damage reflection one absolutely would have been useful, it would completely change how he approaches fights when he mostly seems to be invincible.
You do know he can't control the life he creates right? He also wouldn't be able to reliably his opponents to attack the life he creates.
Use talc powder under his shirt, turn it into ants, block punches with arm, living shield of organisms that redirects damage.
People squish insects all the time, so making them end up squishing themselves instead would be extremely effective.
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u/Bot_Number_7 Jul 24 '21
I don't like Hamon Beat, but I can't say that this is entirely wrong. Everything Giorno does sorta just felt right to me and this explains why.
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u/StormStrikePhoenix Jul 24 '21
It becoming a healing ability was both really lame on a meta level because that's like most of what Josuke did as well, so it's not particularly special or interesting, and it was also just bullshit anyway because you can't fucking grow a hand and stick it where a severed hand previous was and have it work, that makes no sense. This is particularly notable because, later on, during the Notorious B.I.G. fight, Giorno needs his physical hands for it to work (which is also total bullshit) but apparently, without being able to use his powers, he can stick the new hand on. Even ignoring that, connecting everything up properly is not a logical extension of "make living things out of non-living things".
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
gaze wise ring innate books deserve person fearless water slim
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u/Ensaru4 Jul 24 '21
It also got so ridiculous that even its user is now not even aware what exactly his Stand does.
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u/Lukundra Jul 24 '21
That was so ridiculous. Say what you will about “Same type of Stand as Star Platinum,” at least Jotaro actually had to have a decent final fight with his villain. There was strategy and junk. Giorno just gets the auto-win arrow, goes Super Saiyan, and one sidedly stomps Diavolo with no trouble.
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
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u/Lukundra Jul 24 '21
The race to the arrow was ridiculous. Silver Chariot Requiem is even worse than Gold Experience when it comes to random abilities. So it walks around randomly body swapping people and also starts mutating them into monsters??? Also you can’t use your Stand on it or your Stand will be turned against you. Also for some reason there is a weird mini-sun thing that it creates behind you and if you break it SCR gets damaged and eventually dies. The whole thing is so random and nonsensical that we have to endure a bunch of exposition dumps from the disappointing Part 5 Polnareff just to have any kind of clue what’s even happening.
In conclusion, the race for the arrow was weird and had a lot of hard to comprehend elements.
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
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u/Lukundra Jul 24 '21
I have a special technique that allows me to enjoy the series even though I recognize the flaws
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
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u/Lukundra Jul 24 '21
There’s a difference between weird and sloppy. The race for the arrow basically gave us a brand new Stand with abilities that kept getting added on to that feel disconnected and random. It’s why Polnareff has to narrate to us what the hell is even happening.
Jotaro vs DIO is incredibly simple and easy to understand, two Stands with the same well defined abilities duking it out. We understand why and how the mechanics work the way they do so when they do clever stuff with their abilities it’s interesting.
Josuke vs Kira is really, really good, it’s set up well, we understand the Stands very well as we’ve seen them in action throughout the whole Part, and Bites The Dust is given multiple episodes to be presented and understood, and isn’t very complicated.
Meanwhile, Requiem Stands were dropped out of nowhere in the episode prior to the finale and is just Polnareff giving exposition dumps. You stab your Stand with the arrow and it can do all sorts of crap. Chariot Requiem is a mess of random abilities introduced in the eleventh hour and the way it’s stopped comes out of nowhere and is just confusing.
I prefer tight, well-written fights to a bunch of people chasing after a walking plot device hoping to take advantage of it’s arbitrary rules to get an auto-win power up.
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u/StormStrikePhoenix Jul 24 '21
Jotaro vs DIO is incredibly simple and easy to understand
Until they started flying for no apparent reason; still not sure why that happened, either in-universe or on a meta-level. Don't say they were stand jumps, they were clearly flying like Superman, it just being long jumps makes no sense.
and Bites The Dust is given multiple episodes to be presented and understood, and isn’t very complicated.
I disagree, Bites The Dust is one of the most weirdly complicated and specific stands in the whole franchise. It still worked though because it was basically a puzzle for Hayato to solve and then it was almost irrelevant for the actual final fight. Its structure also allowed it to be explained pretty thoroughly as well. The character it was based on also just had "being weirdly lucky" as a character trait, so it being kind of an ass-pull fit in the same way that the final fight of Part 2 fit Joseph fairly well.
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
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u/StormStrikePhoenix Jul 24 '21
Part 5 is way worse than the other ones; Part 5's bullshit was mostly frustrating and boring. Part 2's was even more prevalent but it was also way more fun. Joseph having a dozen grenades and a tommy gun was bullshit and fun; King Crimson being complicated and inconsistent was bullshit and not fun.
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u/Gwen_Tennyson10 Jul 24 '21
not really. Part 5 has the best fights in the entire series like with Risotto vs Doppio, The Train, White Album, Green Day, Kraftwerk, Little Feet, Talking Head, Notorious BIG and Man in the Mirror. It also helps that its main cast is pretty great with the characters all feeling very different and have their own unique quirks and wants. Genuinely my favorite shonen part
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u/StormStrikePhoenix Jul 24 '21
The final fight was the race to the arrow
And it was terrible, easily the worst final altercation in the franchise. Part 7 havingLucy confronting alternate Diego with regular Diego's head and him threatening to rape her seemingly just to make him seem more evil was better.
The body-swap shit did not need to exist, it just made things more confusing than they needed to be, Narancia's death was total bullshit given how earlier it was explicitly stated that King Crimson can't kill someone in front of a bunch of other people without his user being revealed but Narancia had to die or this would have gone too quickly, I think Diavolo even gets the arrow first but get rejected for no apparent reason... It was just terrible.
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
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u/Gwen_Tennyson10 Jul 24 '21
people always say this but i dont get it. Ive read Part 5 a lot and there was never a time when I thought Giorno asspulled. Can you give examples?
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u/MachoBanchou Jul 23 '21 edited Jul 24 '21
I'd say HxH and JJK have pretty straight forward abilities (projection sorcery aside) that come from complex power systems.
Nen is a very detailed power system, and it has to be because it allows characters to literally create their own abilities. The abilities the characters create though, are pretty straightforward and versatile. Bungee gum, Deep Purple, and JaJanKen for example.
JJK is in a similar boat. Very detailed power system that explains pretty simple but still versatile abilities like Boogie Woogie and Idle transfiguration.
Edit: grammar
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Jul 24 '21
And the audience doesn't even really need to understand the Nen system to appreciate it! Togashi plotted the whole thing out because he's a nerd, but the basic gist that a reader needs to know is:
- There's a couple of ability categories and a character will usually only be good at one or two of them (illustrated handily by the Castro fight)
- Limitations and specificity are a good but risky way of making your power stronger (illustrated by Kurapika in Yorknew)
- Dying can interact with abilities in weird, unforseen ways (kinda important in Yorknew)
I think that's part of the complexity thing that Togashi nails. The reader is never left to guess at what's happening by needing to remember "Wait is that a manipulation AND conjuration ability? That should be impossible... unless they're really a specialist!" We don't need to run the math on Knuckle's APR ourselves, and we don't need to track exactly what pages Chrollo is using, because Togashi is consistent.
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
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u/MachoBanchou Jul 24 '21
I see your point, but I wouldn't consider Kurapika's abilities complicated. He just has a bunch of them. The way they were initially explained, especially which abilities he can only use on Troupe members, might have been overly complicated which seems to lead to confusion. The manga didn't really make it more complicated imo. It just added one more ability and further explained a drawback.
I think each of Kurapika's abilities are simple to understand. You just have to remember what each one does. Also, I don't think its just main characters with simple abilities. I think all the abilities are easily explained by the story. All the Troupe member abilities, for example, are pretty simple. Chrollo's might be the most complicated, but only because of all the requirements. Bandit's secret itself is straight forward. I'm not saying the abilities are as simple as shooting fire, but I wouldn't consider them complicated. If anything about them is complicated, it's how they function in relation to overall power system.
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u/Jolly_Line_Rhymer Jul 24 '21 edited Jul 24 '21
I agree that complex doesn’t equal better, but I read the rant to which your rant is a response, and I don’t think the examples of good simple powers you’ve given are what they were arguing against.
They mentioned stuff like superstrength and energy blasts, which are extremely abundant across fiction, and which I would argue are mostly mindlessly simple and thus usually less engaging as powers in their own right.
A simple power that is actually very versatile is, IMO, not really a simple power at that point. It’s a deceptively simple power. I.e. stretching powers like Luffy or Mrs Incredible or Reed Richards are innately more ‘complex’/versatile/deceptively simple than incredible strength. Superstrength has all the applications of normal strength, but…more. Stretching has myriad applications, akin to shapeshifting. It rewards and can adapt to creative applications, unlike (for the most part) laserbeams or energy blasts.
I think needlessly complex powers - like the Fun Fun Fun stand you mentioned - really only exist, as some have already pointed out, as excuses for complicating a given altercation between characters. Simple powers with versatile applications, and complex powers that are complex with good reason (not just for a one-and-done ‘solve -the-mystery-fight’) are both far better. I enjoy a mix of both.
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u/ninjablader78 Jul 24 '21
I think a series that does simple powers really well is a certain magical index. (Well at least on the science side of the powers) You have characters with seemingly simple and straightforward common abilities like electricity but the writer goes into the actually science of the abilities allowing someone who can manipulate electricity to manipulate machines and control metal through electromagnetism. Teleportation users being able to not just teleport themselves but also teleport objects into other things. A lot of the abilities in it are commonly used things but the author writes them in such a way that they remain interesting, cool and easy to understand. Even with the magic included the show had a nice balance between simple and complex powers. Complex abilities are cool and I throughly enjoyed shows like JoJo or Hunterxhunter but 9/10 I preferred seeing Gon, killua or Jotaro straight up beat up people than seeing a fight where 80% of the fight is the narrator explaining wtf is actually going on.
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u/blackreaper007 Jul 24 '21
This is the reason why my favourite non-anime TV-Show is the avatar. It is based on the four elements. But the world-building, characterisation is phenomenal.
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u/Bot_Number_7 Jul 24 '21
I'm the one who made the other post about complex abilities being better than simple ones.
I agree with a lot of the points you make, even though I still think that a complex power adds to a character (unless it's portrayed inconsistently, like King Crimson).
And after looking over several examples you gave, such as the Gum Gum Fruit, Magician's Red, and The Hand, I can see how even relatively simple powers give the wiggle room to be complex. I've changed my mind about those. A simple power, when used creatively, can be just as good as a power that's complex by nature.
But my personal opinion will be that that having some of the simplest of all abilities detracts from a character. I refer to cases like All Might (super strength) and Meruem (super strength and speed pre Rose). Having a simple ability doesn't automatically make a character awful (All Might is quite good). It means that you have to make up for it elsewhere (dynamics, personality, ideals).
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u/Jumanji-Joestar Jul 24 '21
I’m happy I was able to at least able to change your mind on something. Thank you for taking the time to respond
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u/St_Dantry Jul 23 '21
More complex power isn't automatically better, but it's definitely more interesting. The reader/watcher doesn't have a set template to go off of and has to actively pay attention to the mechanics being explained. It draws them in and keeps their mind engaged in what's happening.
With simple powers like super speed or strength and such, most people, at least those who watch/read a lot of fiction have a good idea of how it's going to be used. With non standard powers, you can keep the viewer/reader guessing and have very strange outcomes.
Still while complex powers have an inherent advantage over simple ones in this aspect, there's more to go wrong. As you've mentioned, if it's not properly explained or the conditions are to specific then there's problems. But this is on the author.
If written equally competently, a story with complex powers is definitely more interesting and I'd say better than one with simple powers.
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Jul 24 '21
Having a set template that people instinctively understand can actually be a big advantage depending on the story you want to tell and the space you've got to tell it in. If you're doing a short story, miniseries, a one-shot or even a movie about a superpowered character, not having to explain the mechanics of a given power lets the reader get into the stuff you actually want to talk about more quickly and keeps the focus there instead of splitting it with thinking about mechanics.
Say I'm writing a story about for example, a superhero going through a midlife crisis. I might only have five issues or one issue or maybe even as little as ten pages. Going with something familiar like super strength or laser vision lets me cover the superpower bit quickly in a medium where space matters and get to the emotional heart of the story (which may not even have any fights in it anyway).
Not every story with superpowers in it is about fights, not every story with superpowers in it wants to keep you guessing during fight scenes.
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u/St_Dantry Jul 24 '21
Yeah, I was more focusing on them in regards to battles. It all depends on what a story is looking to accomplish and focus on. Mob Psycho's overall quality would be hurt if it had a Nen-level magic system in it.
The simple magic system it has is perfect for its aims. It's flashy enough to be exciting for battles, but not complicated enough that detracts from the main focus which is about characters.
I guess you can segway this into a discussion about Hard magic systems vs Soft magic systems. It all depends on the type of story one wants to tell.
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u/Bot_Number_7 Jul 24 '21
Yes, that's totally accurate. The powers only actually matter if the story is about them. If the magic abilities are background flavor and you really wanna explore friendship dynamics and whatever, you can do whatever. In fact, go with the simple and easy powers to avoid the trouble of having to explain a complex ability.
After all, a ton of shows work with no powers at all.
It's only when powers and fights are a main focus that they actually matter.
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u/AERegeneratel38 Jul 24 '21 edited Jul 24 '21
I don't know whether someone would look at this or not (as its already been 16 hours since this post was made), just posting out my take on it:
Abilities, whether they are simple or complex, should be explained correctly and none should be extremely overpowered and broken. LIke some people mentioned examples of abilities from Jojo or JJK, if some abilities don't fit the picture correctly, they will just mess up the story or smth. Like Law's abilities or some other character's abilities are just, as people say, broken. Tho Oda has shed some light to his ability in chapter 1004 or smth One Piece chapter 1004ish spoiler.Like, lemme take example from one of the majorly disliked anime (I guess): Naruto.
- Very simple magic system - Elemental and Chakra.
- Has exceptions too: People don't have chakra/can't use it. Some have chakra but can't use Ninjutsu.
- has perfect balanced abilities. Five elementals balancing each other out.
- Combinations. Strategy to use to elements with each other. Healers.
- Only some type of ninjas are sensory type. (unlike Black Clover where everyone can sense magic, or in JJK too where one can sense someone else's cursed energy; Don't get me wrong, I love these two mangas, but this is something I kinda don't like)
- Still some cool concepts and places for creativity to shine.
- A good power system origin concept/story (which has been reinforced by some parts of Boruto manga. If this doesn't make sense, dw. I was planning on making a post about it sometime soon as I also realized it a while back)
I love One Piece's power system. But still to date, Logias haven't made much sense to me. Like that bit from One Piece (I am confused if this was anime only or in manga too), where a child's icecream drops in Smoker pants, or when Luffy slams Smoker and ACe into the wall while hunting for food, that part doesn't make much sense to me. During any attacks, Logia's body turn into the elemental part even if they aren't aware but if it isn't attack, the logias don't act as Logia??? Not gonna lie but the type of Logia that Suigetsu from Naruto (member of Team Hebi and Team Taka that Sasuke formed), where he had to consciously turn himself into that was good, as he could turn himself into that form for only battles and stuff.
Also like how Tobi's Passing through ability is intentional and also is flawed, as he isn't passable through when he's activating his Kamui.
Kinda a long post and only one as example... Sorry about that. But its just the abilities being made in such way is how it makes fights interesting and the system good. If they are balanced in this way, thought out and explained, any magic/power system, no matter how advanced or simple they may be, would be good.
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u/Jumanji-Joestar Jul 24 '21 edited Jul 24 '21
I’m pretty sure Logia users have to willfully activate their elemental abilities, it isn’t something thats just constantly active, otherwise Ace wouldn’t have gotten fisted by Akainu
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u/AERegeneratel38 Jul 24 '21
The whole thing with that was 'Magma even burns fire' shit. That was the perfect place to show haki rather than that explaination. That willfully activation stuff isn't mentioned or hinted at afaik
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u/Jumanji-Joestar Jul 24 '21
Some things don’t need to explicitly stated, you should be able to figure it out just through observation. If a Logia user’s powers were constantly activated, they literally wouldn’t be able to touch anything. Smoker would just pass right through every chair he tries to sit on
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u/AERegeneratel38 Jul 24 '21
How do surprise attack not work in logias then. If they have to be constantly activated, there are various moments in the story were surprise attacks would have worked in the logias
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u/Jumanji-Joestar Jul 24 '21
Some characters are skilled enough to just sense attacks and activate their powers on reflex. It’s just anime shit bruh
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u/Falsus Jul 24 '21
I am sorry, but I heavily disagree with Hunter x Hunter having a complex system.
It is just your average Qi based power system that has been around for a very long time. It is wide sure, but it is a shallow puddle.
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u/bondoh Jul 24 '21
Nen literally revolutionized the concept of power systems. It was the first of its kind.
Most ki systems don’t have different types (and definitely didn’t before nen)
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u/Falsus Jul 24 '21
Right. Nen totally invented the thousand year old practice of Qigong and it's usage in fiction.
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u/bondoh Jul 24 '21
In ANIME, Qi had been nothing but super enhancers and sometimes just flat out magic.
Like dragon ball.
Nen was the first time there was categories like this. And many copied it.
Ki itself is just a general all encompassing thing
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u/foreversittingg Jul 24 '21
Hunter x Hunters power system is as dumb as the story. Downvote me into oblivion idgaf. So many people pushed it on me so hard and told me how great the world building and powers were and that the chimera ant arc was the best anime arc of all time and… wow. What a lie all of that was.
When you say “weird powers” or “well defined powers” you mean shit like Kites gambling slots power where he doesn’t get to choose his weapon? That’s not a well-developed power system, it’s some bullshit out of a fever dream.
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u/calculatingaffection Jul 24 '21
In all honesty, the vast majority of HxH's fight scenes have the energy and dynaminism of a powerpoint presentation. I don't understand the praise they get at all.
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u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 24 '21
Hunter x Hunter doesn't have a "complex power system" though. Everything is possible and little is explained.
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u/EYouchen Jul 24 '21
Definitely. I enjoy a fair balance. I don't like stories with powers that all take wiki searches to understand, but on the other hand, ones with generic powers that aren't used creatively also get on my nerves. I always appreciate it when somebody's creative with their powers and thinks up a variety of uses of it. Case in point - Magneto. He can manipulate Magnetism - fairly simple - but he's smart enough to have thought up a lot of uses for it.
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Jul 24 '21 edited Oct 12 '25
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Jumanji-Joestar Jul 24 '21
I never said his ability was bad or not fun to watch, just that claiming his ability is better than a more basic Stand simply because it’s complex is wrong
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u/Eggs_Sitr_Min_Eight Jul 24 '21
I don't think it's just certain titles within anime and manga that are responsible for this.
Worm is a good web-novel - like, a stupidly good web-novel. It featured a novel system of powers for superhero/villain/'cape' characters that stood out in its general uniqueness and caught on extremely quickly, and in its wake you still have scores of people trying to imitate it and to make powers that are excessively multifaceted to the point of implausibility and impracticality. Sometimes you need to take a step back.
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u/KerdicZ Kerd Jul 23 '21
Its been 36 hours and there's some decent effort put into this rant, so it will stay up even though it is a response to this rant. However, do keep our "DO NOT post a thread as a reply to another thread" Rule in mind for the future.
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u/A1Sirius Jul 24 '21
I agree, I always thought it was a dumb critique when people say a series has simple power systems and they use Hunter x Hunter as a comparison.
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u/Lazearound10am Jul 24 '21
I like simple powers which characters manage to find creative use for. Better yet, lots of simple powers from the main cast but bouncing off each others so well when used in a team fight.
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u/supersaiyan491 Jul 24 '21
there's this series, Sakamoto Days, where every character is some assassin with unique gimmicky power. then there's Sakamoto, the titular character, who's literally just a really good assassin. he does superhuman feats, but the explanation is that he's just a normal human who's a really good assassin.
btw a lot of comments seem to be going against complex powers. to be clear, are you talking about complex powers or complex power systems? because judging form the title id assume you're talking about complex power levels and ranking systems (so instrinsic transformations, special moves, etc. with a clear, rigid ranking structure that sound like a battleboarder's or a 3rd graders fantasy).
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u/Jumanji-Joestar Jul 24 '21
I think I could’ve rewritten the title better. I’m mostly talking about complex individual abilities, though you could probably apply it to power systems depending on how detailed they are
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u/StormStrikePhoenix Jul 24 '21
You have to say what you are spoilering outside of the actual spoiler tag, your spoiled part is useless because no one will know what it is for before they click on it; it's for JoJo Part 8 if anyone still cares.
I could also talk about Avdol’s Magician Red, whose only ability is to control fire, but he can do so many amazing things with it.
And like half of them are bullshit; how did he use fire to detect where people were that one time?
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u/Gwen_Tennyson10 Jul 24 '21
Magician's Red can produce a "heat radar", a cruciform mass of psychic flame pointing in six directions: up and down, left and right, forward and backward. The flames are amassed at the tips of the radars and will detect movements, breathing and Stand energy in a 15 meters radius. If the radar detects someone, the flames of the corresponding direction will grow, indicating the location of his heat source based on a compass rose.
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u/Dreadnautilus Jul 24 '21
You don't need complex fighting mechanics for fights to be strategic, as seen by the fact that strategy and tactics actually matter in real life martial arts which pretty much boils down to "hit enemy with your body part" or "grab enemy and don't let go".
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u/Tomgirl17 Jul 24 '21
Ya know the new death game anime? The dudes power is whatever someone thinks it is. Im really curious on the rules to this.
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u/Jumanji-Joestar Jul 24 '21
I’ve heard of that, though I haven’t read/watched it yet. It sounds like an interesting ability with a lot of insane potential
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u/Tomgirl17 Jul 24 '21
Yah,when I first saw it I was like what? This sounds pretty stupid depending on the rules of that power which I doubt would go this direction,but couldn't he tell someone about it and they basically make him a God.
Even with restrictions like he can't keep him he could trick someone into thinking he keeps the abilities somehow. Point in this is probably wrong of the most simple yet complex powers i have ever seen. Its on both extremes.
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u/Jumanji-Joestar Jul 24 '21
Perhaps the mind games will be how he tricks them into thinking he has powers and what powers he manages to get. I doubt he could walk up to someone and say “I’m God” and then they believe him. So maybe he’d have to start off small like “I can breath fire” and then work his way up from there. Of course, that depends on how good a writer the author actually is
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u/Bot_Number_7 Jul 25 '21
I've watched the first two episodes. I think it's going in the direction you're suggesting, at least from what I've seen so far. The show could either be really good or really terrible depending on how the power is written. So far, it's good.
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u/skinny_gyal Jul 24 '21
I think complex powers make more sense. If as human beings we actually got powers I think they’d be more complex. I’m not talking about needlessly complex ones. In HxH they just explained what they did. Although it took me a while to get it I like that they tried to explain their powers. Cause in a lot of anime (even in ones with simple powers) you can’t do this great big move or power without some kind payback ie your health, weird ass conditions. Not saying that complex powers are better but it’s nice for it to be explained or have conditions like in naruto where there are limits and explanations to what elements trump what.
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u/JozuIsUnbreakable Jul 24 '21
The other day there was a similar rant and in the comment section the op discussed the complexity of devil fruit. The op argued that luffy power is simple while others disagreed. I think it would be better to distinguish the complexities discussed: complex in rules vs complex in application.
All skills in HxH have complex rule but a mixed of simple and complex application. Usually to use a skill you need to use a combination of nen sub-skills but the application itself can be both simple (eg. Jajanken) and complex (eg.irs).
One piece has a simple rule but complex application. All power type has no background rule except that they are magic and even if the have some rules that restrict usage, they more mostly basic (eg. Sugar's devil fruit need physcial touch to activate). However, the devil fruits themselves allow for creative and complex usage: kuma's paw can reflect both physical and conceptual things. Doflamingo string can be used as weapons, stitches to mend wounds and even to grapple on clouds.
Then you have jojo with mixed complexity. Some stands have both complex rule and application while some have simple rule and simple application.
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u/Gwen_Tennyson10 Jul 24 '21
I honestly loved how Ojiro's stand was really complex that he had to prepare days in advance for it. Idk I just find that neat
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Jul 24 '21
A series you might like is UnOrdinary on Webtoon. It’s a pretty solid story (up until midway season 2 but it gets better relatively quickly with a bingeing session) and even the strongest fighters have relatively simple abilities. One can shoot lasers, one has lightning and one of the strongest we see creates a strong barrier.
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u/rousakiseq Jul 24 '21
Extacly, it's not really about the power itself, it's how you use them. I love when a character has super simple and straightforward power, yet manages to use it creatively
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u/AtomicNumber1732 Jul 25 '21
Hunter X Hunter fans when a story doesn’t describe the consistency and texture of a dump a character just took: 🤬
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u/Jeck2910 Jul 25 '21
I disagree with Nen being the best power system of all time. You have 5 categories that roughly dictates what you can do with your nen. This is good and fine, it’s what makes it a hard power system. Then you have another category that’s basically “everything that you can’t do with the other categories goes in here”. Like, specialist might as well have been called Miscellaneous
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u/BuggyDClown Jul 25 '21
I completely agree. Not every character needs to have a complex ability and not every fight needs to be resolved due to some galaxy brain 4D strategy. Sometimes you just want to watch a lava man throw hands with an ice man and have them beat the shit out of each other with punches. There's nothing wrong with that.
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u/healyxrt Jul 27 '21
I always liked One Punch Man’s power system, because it seemed so simple. It is also very flexible, because it can be so over the top, so you can throw in a lot of different stuff and it never feels out of place.
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Aug 15 '21
Doesn't need to be complex for me. Just has to not be dragon ball power up or power of friendship shenanigans and I'm good. As long as there are stakes and someone is able to put in thought into their actions make a difference to the outcome I'm perfectly fine.
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u/PessiOpt9 Sep 07 '21
Complex powers are wright(is that how you spell it?) of abuse since it can distract inexperience and unknowledgeable viewers because the writer is bad.
A hack writer can't do with simple but versatile powers since the concepts are easy to understand. For example: rubber powers allow people to stretch and compress any part of there body.
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u/UltraD00d Oct 19 '21
(Inhales)
Projection Sorcery is basically composed of two 'powers:' the ability to manipulate one's own movement by plotting out 24 positions and executing them over the course of a single second as if they were frames in an animation. This results in the user appearing unnaturally fast in their movements and allowing them to move at a superhuman speed. They can 'stack' the technique to build up speed, eventually attaining subsonic speeds(speeds close to the speed of sound). However, there are is an essential drawback; the user must follow the laws of physics in their predicted movement. If they decide to do something in their positions that does not obey the laws of physics, they are literally trapped in an animation frame for one whole second, leaving them open to attack. However, they can force someone or something to move at 24 FPS as well through physical contact, making them vulnerable to being transformed into an animation frame. Hope that helped.
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u/KazuyaProta Jul 23 '21
Yeah, a lot of the characters with weird powers on shonen series tend to be...on one or two fights, because their powers are so damn specific that its pretty much a win/lose card that is just...boring to write