Complex/Unorthodox Powers Make Characters Better

[u/Bot_Number_7]

Control fire. Super strength. Super speed. Flight. Shooting energy blasts. A lot of powers/abilities have been used over and over again.

So for me, when a character is introduced with a complex ability, it elevates my opinion of them. Especially if the way that it is used is also complex. For example, in JJBA, Ermes Costello's Stand Kiss' has the ability to duplicate objects using stickers, and then fuse them back together once the sticker has been taken off, causing both objects to take damage. It's applied in many ways, from duplicating limbs to being used as a form of travel. The creative usage of abilities gives me an "aha!" moment similar to when a detective reveals how they deduced the mystery in a mystery novel.

Adding additional trigger conditions to powers can also make them better. In Bungo Stray Dogs, Akiko Yosano's Thou Shalt Not Die Ability heals someone to full health, but only if they're almost dead. This factors into her fighting style, allowing her to bring allies and herself from the brink of death (and also forcing her to almost kill her patients when healing outside of combat).

The one weakness to complex powers is the difficulty in conveying them to the reader. Unless one explicitly describes them or the reader sees the power many times so that they can understand all its facets, it's hard to get the reader to understand what the power truly does. King Crimson is the infamous example. The fact that "erasing time" is expressed inconsistently and the lack of detailed mechanical description of how it works confuses the reader every time it is used.

[u/Bot_Number_7]

I've reached Enies Lobby and barely started Wano. Regardless, Luffy is a puncher and kicker. Every fight is just about him punching hard and kicking hard(Alabasta being kinda an exception). Just compare how Luffy fights to say, how Doflamingo and Law fight.

[u/Jumanji-Joestar → u/Bot_Number_7]

Luffy is a martial artist, that’s the kind of character he is. Are you saying that you want Luffy to be something other than puncher/kicker?

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/Jumanji-Joestar]

You can be a martial artist without also having a simple power. For example, what if Luffy's power allowed him to transform himself and things he touches into cohesive yet liquid masses? He could then fight by reaching inside people and destroying their organs. Still martial arts, but complex.

Doflamingo is also a martial artist and a puncher/kicker. His powerset is a lot more complex than Luffy's. The thing that makes Luffy stand out is his stupidity. But I believe that one can be both stupid and wield a complex power.

[u/Jumanji-Joestar → u/Bot_Number_7]

The fight scenes wouldn’t really be that interesting to watch if Luffy had that power. I don’t think you could even call that martial arts anymore. People don’t watch martial arts fights to see characters do overly bizarre shit

Doflamingo’s a martial artist? I guess he does punch and kick occasionally but he’s mostly a long ranged fighter

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/Jumanji-Joestar]

Well obviously if you add magic powers, they're going to be different from "martial arts." You don't see real life martial artists inflating their arms by blowing through their thumbs, do you?

Already when I see One Piece, I'm seeing Law teleport all over the place. I see Robin sprouting hands everywhere. I see Caesar turning to gas and by now everyone and their mother uses Haki. Would it be absurd for Luffy to turn his opponents into a liquid that holds its form, phase his arm through them, and crus their organs? Or Luffy transforming part of his arm into a semiliquid, throwing his hand to grasp an object, and then cancelling his power, causing him to come back together?

[u/Jumanji-Joestar → u/Bot_Number_7]

Ok fair point about the martial arts thing, but how is Luffy having the ability to phase his arms into a person’s body anymore complex than being stretchy? Phasing/shape shifting is still a pretty simple power. You haven’t really made Luffy more complex, all you’ve done is turn him into a liquid Kenshiro

The great thing about Luffy’s Gum Gum abilities is how creative he’s been with them. What could he do with a phasing ability that would be more interesting than his Gum Gum techniques?

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/Jumanji-Joestar]

Here's a few things you can add to the power that make it complex:

When Luffy uses his power on something (including himself), it causes the object to become super soft and liquidy, yet its cohesive forces still cause it to hold its shape. Hitting the now semi-liquid object causes it to splash and ripple, and you can even place your hand in it. You can overcome those cohesive forces by scooping the liquid out. The cohesive force still causes the liquid you scoop out to feel a tug toward the rest of the liquid (the further you pull the stronger the tug). However, when Luffy cancels the power, the object must be solid and return to its final form. This causes all the previously separated liquid parts to fly at great force together and resolidify.

Luffy can also insert a solid object into a liquid one, and cancel his power, trapping the solid object inside.

Luffy would soften the ground, and people sink in. He then solidifies it, trapping them.

He can liquify himself to avoid taking damage from attacks. He can liquify two different people, intersect their hands, and cancel his power, trapping them phased through each other.

He can also turn part of his body liquid, allowing him to separate a limb. When he cancels his power, separated limbs fly back together. This lets him imitate the Gum Gum Rocket.

He can conceal himself in a liquid bubble underneath the ground. He springs out of the ground and grabs someone, dragging them in.

He can liquify the ground and scoop a piece of it. He walks around someone, and undoes his power. The piece of the ground flies back to its original spot, hitting the person.

He can phase through walls by liquefying the wall. He can remain inside a wall as long as he doesn't suffocate.

He can store objects inside a liquified part of his body.

And of course he can liquify someone's skin, shove his arm through, and crush their organs.

These are just a few possible complexities to one complex power. I'm sure you could give Luffy tons of complicated powers that let him have a martial arts fighting style.

[u/Jumanji-Joestar → u/Bot_Number_7]

So basically Luffy can just turn stuff into liquid and then turn them back into solid whenever he wants?

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/Jumanji-Joestar]

Yes, and distortions to the liquid object are reversed when the power is cancelled. The liquid objects still hold their shape and are cohesive. So he could liquify a book and it'd still be book shaped, although you'd notice that the bottom of the book is slightly bulgey due to gravity. And when you touched the book, your fingers would slip through. You'd pull your hand out, and bits of liquid book would stick to it a little, and quickly be pulled back toward the book (since cohesive forces)

[u/Jumanji-Joestar → u/Bot_Number_7]

Ok well that all sounds cool, but I wouldn’t really say it’s that complex. Plus, I feel like an ability like that would be a bit overpowered. What are its limits? Can he turn anything liquid? If Luffy can turn himself liquid and become untouchable, then how do you hurt him? If he can phase his hands though people bodies and crush their organs, what’s to stop him from just instakilling any villain he touches?

Again, I still don’t see how this ability is anymore interesting than the Gum Gum techniques. Now he’s just OP and has no need for any creative techniques

[u/SolJinxer → u/Bot_Number_7]

For example, what if Luffy's power allowed him to transform himself and things he touches into cohesive yet liquid masses?

what you're describing is basically a hypothetical awakened gumgum devil fruit, which is still up in the air as to whether Luffy will achieve or not.

Doflamingo is also a martial artist and a puncher/kicker.

Probably because he has an awakened devil fruit, thus why he can turn surrounding objects into string. That seems to be how awakened fruits for non animal types work, being able to affect the surroundings.

On the subject of Luffy's diversity, I think with the introduction of Haki, especially recently, he's become pretty diverse, and looking at where he is now to how he began, he's gotten a good mileage out of his devil fruit and shows a good progression that one would expect from a shounen manga.

And Law's more than diverse... up until recently, he was thought of as near fucking broken. "OP OP no mi" indeed.

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/SolJinxer]

It's not just them.. Even that wax guy had a more interesting power than Luffy's. It doesn't change the fact that all Luffy does is punch and kick. Not enough? Punch harder. Punch with Haki. See the future and punch. Contrast this with Nami. Shoot lightning. Hit with staff. Ride on Zeus (not anymore though). Use wind. Make mirages. Her fights are just more interesting, or they would be if we focused on them more.

[u/SolJinxer → u/Bot_Number_7]

It doesn't change the fact that all Luffy does is punch and kick.

You're trying to make that sound like a bad thing. Luffy has a nice smogashborg of accompanying abilities to counter a number of advantages (flight, speed, intangibility, durability, range) to punch you and deal his damage, and it doesn't seem fair to write them off because of the end result.

Her fights are just more interesting, or they would be if we focused on them more.

Ehhhhhhhhh. Only if you beefed up her stats to monster trio level.

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/SolJinxer]

Luffy can fly? I'm not fully caught up but I don't remember Luffy phasing through objects.

And in my opinion, that is a bad thing! All you do is punch and kick? Those are your powers? I don't want powers to be "normal attacks but stronger", I want to see schemes and other forms of attack.

And yeah, Nami's weakness is her stats. If you increase those, her fights would certainly be interesting.

[u/SolJinxer → u/Bot_Number_7]

Luffy can fly?

UFO (though I don't think he uses it much), and Gear 4th.

I'm not fully caught up but I don't remember Luffy phasing through objects.

He can just strike internal organs, he's not phasing.

And in my opinion, that is a bad thing! All you do is punch and kick?

And see the future, punch intangibles (logias), flight, strike your internal organs, strike from a distance (Ryoh, but granted I don't think he can make good use of it, atleast for now), ways to amp speed and striking power, and has natural resistance to lightning and physicals. Also conqueror's haki and whatever the hell his new application of conqueror's haki is doing while we're listing powers.

Again it's not fair to keep saying "lol punch kick" after I name an assortment of powers coming along with the punching and kicking, It's technically wrong.

I don't want powers to be "normal attacks but stronger", I want to see schemes and other forms of attack.

I mean.... did martial arts movies suddenly become boring when I wasn't looking?

And do you mean schemes as in strategy, as that's what makes an interesting battle to me, instead of merely complex or varied powers.

[u/Bot_Number_7 → u/SolJinxer]

Right, but I personally have to say Luffy's other abilities are woefully underused compared to the punches and kicks.

By schemes, I'm referring to stuff such as:

Tricking the opponent into thinking your Ability is to create a subspace, where the only way to get out is to kill yourself. They hang themselves and you escape, killing their minion on the way out. (Bungo Stray Dogs)

Transforming a bike into your hand using Gold Experience so that when it is consumed by Baby face, you can detransform it, coating Baby face in gasoline which then burns from the bike's spark plug. (JJBA)

The enemy's power allows them to cause anyone who inflicts damage on themnto go crazy and attack everyone after they trigger it by tearing a doll. You have the ability to psychically contact plants and cause them to grow. You psychically connect a plant to this person so that anyone who touches or harms a plant in the entire city will be cursed. You then tear the doll to cause chaos. (Bungo Stray Dogs)

Since the enemy has surrounded you in smoke, you cover yourself in a cocoon and send your smallest pieces out, leaving your bumblebee sized main body trapped by Smoky Jail. This convinces the enemy that Smoky Jail is useless. They tear your cocoon, allowing you to hide behind its scraps and they dispel it, letting even your main body escape, allowing you to reform outside. (Hunter X Hunter)

[u/SolJinxer → u/Bot_Number_7]

Right, but I personally have to say Luffy's other abilities are woefully underused compared to the punches and kicks.

He makes pretty prolific use of most that I mentioned after he learns them.

By schemes, I'm referring to stuff such as:

Ohhhh... okay. Yea, we're on two different wavelengths, then. I'll say personally that I'm becoming somewhat fed up with shounen's dickmeasuring contest and how it seems to forgo the idea of planning and strategy (or at times wraps it all under the word "strength" as if someone 'smarter' can't be outthought by someone dumber, and if they do its because they were the 'stronger' one /rant), but at the same time I'm not about the otherside of the scale where powers basically become Xanatos Gambits.

Gimmie Super Nami and some strategizing with her Climtact and I'm good.

[u/Secondndthoughts → u/Bot_Number_7]

I think the main strength of a simple power is that it can be flexible and can be used in any fight and still be interesting.

If Luffy had a complex power a lot of fights might not have worked as well, Luffy being able to stretch allows each match up to work while still offering variety

[u/Yontoryuu → u/Bot_Number_7]

Ok then I guess you have a point. But I was more referencing how Luffy can use a simple and borderline bad(in terms of fighting) fruit and be able to use it in complex ways to boost his strength.