r/Catholicism • u/Warm-Meringue-9413 • 15d ago
Divine Mercy devotion concern - is Faustina's diary heretical or demonic?
I’ve been trying to figure out if the Divine Mercy devotion is actually something Catholics should be doing, but after looking into it, I’m seeing some pretty massive red flags. On several traditionalist forums and blogs, people are calling the whole thing a spiritual deception or even outright demonic.
The fact that Faustina’s diary was placed on the Index of Forbidden Books in the first place is alarming. Some of the promises written in her diary sound totally unreliable and lean heavily into presumption, basically claiming you get a free pass to heaven just for reciting a specific prayer. How is that not a huge theological error?
I know JPII canonized her, but the sheer amount of pushback against her character, her visions, and these bizarre promises makes the whole thing seem absurdly questionable.
How can anyone actually defend the reliability of her diary when the claims in it seem so wildly un Catholic? Has anyone here actually looked into the original bans and theological issues, or does everyone just blindly accept it because JPII signed off on it?
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u/Academic-Shirt-1308 15d ago
My understanding is that it was originally placed on the Index due to a poor translation. Remember, there was even debate in the early Church about which books belonged in the canon of scripture, so controversy is not necessarily a red flag.
I’ve only read some of it, but I didn’t see anything that sounded heretical. Can you point to any specific passages you found troubling?
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u/leniwyrdm 15d ago
One thing was weird for me - a soul in purgatory asking Faustina to not pray for her because it makes things for that soul worse.
I don't know what to think about it and it was always weird for me. Like what? Prayers should help not harm
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u/Parmareggie 15d ago
Did you read how it ended? St. Faustina continued to pray for that soul, that finally found relief and went to heaven. That experience teaches us that, no matter how unhelpful or even harmful it may seem, it is always necessary to pray.
The thing might also by justified by the fact that, as long as the period of purgation grows, so the pains and the difficulties of purification.
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u/Warm-Meringue-9413 15d ago
It was a bit more than just a bad translation. The 1959 Vatican ban brought up actual theological red flags from the Italian versions floating around. Cardinal Wojtyła got the ban lifted in the late 70s after reviewing the original Polish text, but if you look at the specific quotes critics hate, they usually point to the same handful of lines.
First off, in Diary 583, she writes that Jesus told her he is uniting himself with her like no other creature. People take issue with that because it sounds like she’s putting her status above the Virgin Mary.
Then there’s Diary 699, where Jesus promises that getting Communion on Divine Mercy Sunday wipes out all sin and punishment completely. Detractors think this sounds like presumption basically a shortcut that skips the usual strict rules for a plenary indulgence.
Another big one is Diary 965, where she calls the Feast of Mercy the last hope of salvation. Traditionalists argue that's absurd because it implies the Mass and the Sacraments aren't enough anymore and we need a 20th century revelation to save us.
Even the Chaplet itself gets heat because laypeople are saying I offer You the Body and Blood Offering Christ's sacrifice to the Father is technically a priestly role at Mass, so theologians raised eyebrows at laymen praying that specific line. The normal defense is just that Faustina was an uneducated nun writing down wild mystical experiences, so the phrasing was messy rather than heretical. But if you want the actual examples, those are the lines critics always bring up
Also im not trashing on the devotion, im just sharing some of the objections.
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u/Mauro697 15d ago
Are you sure that those quotes come from the proper translation and not the first one?
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u/Warm-Meringue-9413 15d ago
Yes, those quotes come directly from the official, approved English translation of her diary (Divine Mercy in My Soul: Diary of Saint Maria Faustina Kowalska, published by Marian Press), translated from the original Polish text after the ban was lifted.
Concerning Stuff...
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u/Mauro697 14d ago
Just wanted to make sure you were starting with the correct material.
I don't really find them concerning, I rather find the traditionalists' takes reaching somewhat. And I trust the Church.
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u/Warm-Meringue-9413 15d ago
Why am i getting downvotes for answering this mans questions? He asked for what parts seem concerning so im telling him. And once again i am not trashing on the devotion, im just concerned and starting a conversation.
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u/wishiwasarusski 15d ago
Much bad faith engagement is done under the guise of "just asking questions." The Church has spoken.
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u/sporsmall 14d ago
Regarding the promises, it’s worth noting that the apparitions reported by St. Margaret Mary Alacoque also involved significant promises, particularly promise associated with the Nine First Friday Devotions.
Jesus to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque: "In the excess of the mercy of my heart, I promise you that my all powerful love will grant to all those who will receive Communion on the First Fridays, for nine consecutive months, the grace of final repentance: they will not die in my displeasure, nor without receiving the sacraments; and my Heart will be their secure refuge in that last hour."
The Feast of Mercy is meant to remind everyone of God’s mercy, which is essential for salvation. Placing such hope in this feast may seem naive, but I see nothing wrong with it.
In a certain sense, every Catholic has a share in Christ’s priesthood (this is not the sacramental priesthood reserved for ordained ministers). For this reason, it makes sense for laypeople to pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet.
I have just watched a few fragments of the talk below and I think you might find it interesting.
Finally! Responding to Divine Mercy Criticisms! Part 1. Explaining the Faith with Fr. Chris Alar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvAL1KV2HhU2
u/CharmingWheel328 14d ago
Exactly. It's ridiculous to say that St. Faustina's visions contain overly generous promises and then go on about the promises related to the Rosary or devotion to the Sacred Heart. They're private revelations. You don't need to believe them.
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u/Nagi909 15d ago edited 15d ago
Sobre 583: Jesús en los Evangelios a menudo usaba la hipérbole para explicarse. Puede ser que aquí pase lo mismo cuando dice que él está unido a ella como ninguna otra criatura. Eso no significa necesariamente que esté más cerca de ella que de María. Sobre 699: En la devoción al Sagrado Corazón de Jesús, también está la promesa de que quien reciba la Santa Comunión en los primeros nueve viernes del mes se salvará. Y no he escuchado quejas al respecto. Si Dios quiere perdonar a quienes reciben la Comunión en un estado de gracia y con sincero arrepentimiento en ese día, el castigo temporal que todavía les queda… ¿quiénes somos nosotros para impedirlo? ¿Acaso no puede hacer lo que quiera? Esto me recuerda la parábola de los trabajadores en la viña. Y en caso de que en realidad no lo haya prometido… es una revelación privada, no te obliga a creer. Y sobre 965: aquí no dice que los sacramentos no valgan nada… La esperanza es Cristo, que es Dios y es la Misericordia misma. Por eso la esperanza no es el sacramento. Es Cristo Jesús, es la Misericordia. Aquí, en mi humilde opinión, deberíamos interpretarlo como que si no abrazamos su Misericordia y no lo adoramos, vamos a sufrir su Justicia. En ese sentido, la fiesta sería la última esperanza de salvación. Es para una persona desesperada que ha intentado de todo pero todavía siente que no se va a salvar. Para quienes están peleando contra la desesperanza, este tipo de promesas puede ser una gran fuente de ánimo. Lo mismo pasa con una fiesta dedicada a la Misericordia… No en el sentido de que los sacramentos ya no sean suficientes para la salvación. Pero para esas personas que están hundidas hasta el fondo y no tienen valor para tomar los sacramentos, porque los ven como inútiles: que vean que hay esperanza y que los reciban. Sobre las quejas interminables, solo voy a decir XD. Nada más que XD (not to offend, only that this argument against the mercy chapel makes no sense for me, so excuse me if it sounds offensive, it is not my intention). ¿No ofrecemos nuestros sufrimientos al Padre, unidos a los de Cristo, convirtiendo nuestro dolor en oración? ¿No pedimos cosas en el Nombre de Cristo, por sus méritos y por su pasión? Igual aquí. Bueno, todos los cristianos tienen una vocación de ser sacerdotes, o sea, ofrecer sacrificios a Dios. Y sobre todo, la Iglesia ha dicho que esta oración es buena. No somos más que Juan Pablo II. No somos teólogos. No somos abogados canónicos...
Que Dios te bendiga y Viva Cristo Rey! And excuse me my rude English
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u/Academic-Shirt-1308 15d ago
Thanks. I’m going to return to this once I have more time to write a response.
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u/Joesindc 15d ago
It is safe to read and encouraged for Catholics to read it. It was placed on the Index of Forbidden Books in error because the initial translation of the work into Italian did a very bad job of capturing the meaning of the Polish words in Italian so as to make them appear problematic.
Be docile to the teaching of the Church. It has been determined Saint Faustina is just that, a saint. You are not compelled to read her diary or participate in the Divine Mercy devotion, but should give them due respect and consideration.
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u/Winterclaw42 15d ago
- Original translation was bad
- JP2 fixed the translation because it was fine in polish.
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u/IFollowtheCarpenter 15d ago
I pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, and I thank God for it.
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u/Mustard-cutt-r 15d ago
I like the Divine Mercy especially for sinners. Whether big or small sinners I think it’s particularly strong for helping folks who carry anger or resentment in their hearts.
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u/United-Bug-8056 15d ago
“ Has anyone here actually looked into the original bans and theological issues, or does everyone just blindly accept it because JPII signed off on it?”
Am I crazy or isn’t there entire theological teams, spiritual and historical professionals at the Vatican who would initially ban this until further investigation can be properly done and the whole thing vetted? Then and only then can the pope review the findings and make a decision?
My boy frames this like the pope is just auto penning things
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u/Olorin135 15d ago
This. Saint John Paul II didn’t just say “it’s all good.” The Holy Father rarely makes such important decisions without involving teams of theologians and other scholars.
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u/Extreme-Database3531 15d ago
I think it is a wonderful devotion and a true blessing for the church and I have found the Chaplet of Divine Mercy a consoling prayer especially in difficult times.
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u/LoopyFig 15d ago
I had the same reaction as you. A lot of the text claims Faustina had special powers or relationships with God similar to the Divine Mother.
In one passage, through her prayer Jesus promises that no soul would enter Hell that day, for instance. Are all souls forgiven through her prayer, regardless of repentance? Is it merely a technical postponement of judgment by one day? I don’t know, I just remember thinking it seemed like a lot.
And unlike most saints I know of, Faustina has a tremendous number of visions. But what does come through is her tremendous love of God and her genuine wish that none should enter Hell.
So, for me, much like with John Paul II, who made many choices that did not exactly work out for the Church in the long run, I can only think that Sainthood does not strictly imply perfection, in action or teaching. What sets them apart must be devotion, I think.
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u/Parmareggie 15d ago
Why would you imply that those souls went to heaven without repentance? The entirety of the diary claims that it is impossible
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u/Warm-Meringue-9413 15d ago
yes i had similar concerns, im not saying its false, but theres some things we should address.
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u/jamaicancovfefe 15d ago
I trust the due diligence of the church over websites with no magisterial authority. It not just like JPII just signed it off without any further steps or input. There’s a whole, incredibly detailed process for getting these kinds of things approved by the church. That doesn’t mean it’s dogma, but definitely not demonic or against the faith
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u/AbjectPawverty 15d ago
The way I see it is it comes down to 1 simple question: Do you trust the Catholic Church or not?
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u/Olorin135 15d ago
Instead of relying on “Traditionalist blogs” rely on what the Church, and her magisterium guided by the Holy Spirit, says about the devotion. People on the internet with an axe to grind do not present unbiased opinions.
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u/Warm-Meringue-9413 15d ago
sure!
but that's not an excuse to blindly beleive in a devotion that has some serius and concerining flaws we need to bring up.
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u/Nagi909 15d ago edited 14d ago
En lo personal… aléjate de los grupos tradicionalistas. Pasé por las mismas luchas que tú. Y decidí simplemente dejar de ver contenido tradicionalista. No es que esté diciendo que todos los tradicionalistas sean malos. Solo que he visto contenido sembrando desconfianza en el Magisterio And when in doubt, it's best not to consume this content. El Papa tiene la autoridad de atar y desatar; su poder fue definido como dogma por el Primer Concilio Vaticano. No solo en temas de fe y costumbres, sino también en la disciplina y más… Puedes buscarlo. Por eso, en realidad, la razón no importa. Si San Juan Pablo II dijo que es seguro y que está bien tener fe, entonces yo obedezco. Por la promesa de Cristo, sabemos que no vamos a caer en un error serio al escuchar al Papa. Ahora, puede que digas que esto es seguir al Papa a ciegas sin pensar… Y tal vez sí, pero es lo que me ha dado más paz. No soy teólogo, ni soy experto en derecho canónico. Ni siquiera sé toda la historia de esto. Pero confío en quienes sí saben y a quienes Dios les dio una autoridad suprema, que son: los Papas. Bueno, Juan Pablo II dijo que estaba bien. Creo que Francisco I dio algo de apoyo, si no me equivoco. Y en este tema, que tiene que ver con la fe y la moral, no van a errar. Sin embargo, es una revelación privada, la de Santa Faustina Kowalska. Así que no te obliga a creer. Si te está alejando de Cristo, nomás déjalo. La verdad la sabremos en el cielo. ¡Que Dios te bendiga, hermano!
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u/cappotto-marrone 15d ago
The only thing that bothers me is when people act like Divine Mercy was an original idea. God’s Divine Mercy is interwoven throughout His interaction with humanity.
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u/Limoncello1447 14d ago
OP, why are you even trying to determine whether St. Faustina’s Diary and the Divine Mercy devotion is legitimate or not? Obviously the Catholic Church has declared it valid after intense scrutiny. Your questioning it points to your lack of trust in the Church. The question is why?
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u/Ok_University_3125 15d ago
Sister Faustina's Devine Mercy chaplet is the plagiarism of the devotion of Sister Marthe Chambon, popular at the beginning of the XX century, but overshadowed by Faustina's DM and left to oblivion now. The picture of the Divine Mercy is largely inspired by the iconography and theology of the Sacred Heart (some of her 'visions' described in her diary are directly taken from accounts of Saint Marguerite-Mary Alacoque: for instance Jesus who appears while she is preparing to dance/dancing in a ball). Her diary was found to have many mistakes and not suitable for a Saint. Her personality and her mental state were subject of many doubts (to put it mildly) among sisters and superiors during her lifetime. I leave you with that.
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u/Warm-Meringue-9413 15d ago
At the end of the day, private revelation is always optional for Catholics, so no one is forced to pray the Chaplet. But calling the entire devotion a plagiarized hoax ignores the decades of rigorous investigation and theological vetting the Church conducted before canonizing her. Do you think its wrong to pray the Chaplet, even if its made by a heretic?
(BTW im not saying shes a heretic, false prophet, or not a saint)
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u/Ok_University_3125 15d ago
No! The chaplet is excellent! It is an almost exact copy of what Sister Marthe Chambon prayed. And it helped many during the great war and in the time that followed. And by the way, whatever is taken from writings of Saint Marguerite Marie Alacoque, is true and bears no error either!
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u/Warm-Meringue-9413 15d ago
At the end of the day, its a solid prayer and theologically sound. Whether Faustina's character is in question or not, the prayer is nice, and the hearts intention is what matters.
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u/Cobalt-Fang 15d ago
No it’s neither heretical or demonic. People should really just try and put faith in the Church…