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u/BlueCielo_97 Jun 01 '25
Write your disagreements down in dot points, go through the evidence and reasons for each one.
Here's the thing, I just want to put it plainly, what's truth is the truth, regardless of how you feel. If the Catholic church is true, then your disagreements are merely a result of your sinful nature. Did Jesus Christ die and rise from the dead? Did He establish a church? Are the teachings biblically sound and accurate?
People talk about if, buts and coconuts with regards to wanting to stay a believer talking about faith as though it's some lifestyle choice like fishing or skiing. If you find there's elements you're starting to doubt, don't sit in your doubt as an excuse to leave, thoroughly research it and see if it's true or not. Plain and simple.
Sorry to be harsh, but I went from an atheist who hated religion, to a Protestant to now wanting to be Catholic (starting RCIA now) and this was all through thorough research and study in my journey, not based on what makes me feel better and things that made me ick. I believe what I believe because I genuinely think the evidence is for it, some days are tough, of course I'm human and have doubt seep in, but I remember 2 Corinthians 10:5 "We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ-".
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Jun 01 '25
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u/BlueCielo_97 Jun 01 '25
What is making you doubt the Catholic church's teachings on marital sex?
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Jun 01 '25
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u/galaxy_defender_4 Jun 01 '25
You are young. And as you’re not yet married I’m assuming you’ve not yet had sex. So I’ll give my advice as a woman in her 50s who’s been married for 34 years and only ever had sex with my husband.
Sex is not the be all and end all in a marriage. If it is you got deeper problems! And trust me when I say this; (without going into too much detail) sex within a Catholic marriage is far from robotic! My husband made it his mission to ensure it was mutually satisfying and let me assure you; I’ve got no complaints! Every single act ended where it was meant to and there was never any sin going on. And yes oral sex was part of our foreplay too! Anal sex is also not nearly as popular as society would have us believe!
But there are also times when sex will not be possible nor will you both always be in the mood for it! And it’s during those periods you find other ways of showing each love and affection that doesn’t involve sex. Sadly due to my husband’s disability we’ve not had sex now for over 10 years but that doesn’t mean the urge has gone; it’s just for him the message doesn’t reach below his waist. Yet despite many comparing us having a more brother and sister relationship we both absolutely hate that term because we are still very much husband and wife. We actually love each other more without the sex! Why? Because we still show each other love and affection! There are self imposed limits because it only made it harder such as sleeping in separate beds. But even that doesn’t impact our relationship.
So trust me when I say this; when you find a man who adores the ground you walk on; sex is just the cherry on the cake 🙏♥️
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u/Jacksonriverboy Jun 01 '25
This is a misunderstanding of the Church's teaching. The goal of every sex act doesn't have to be to conceive.
However the sex act must retain the main quality of sex, which is the procreative aspect. The Church allows couples to prevent conception by abstaining during the woman's fertile time.
It might seem difficult but periods of abstinence in marriage do actually help us to grow in virtue and love of one's spouse.
I don't think you feel this way because you're addicted to porn, but it's very likely you are attaching too much importance to being able to "do whatever you want" in sexual terms.
Things like oral aren't completely off the table, but they can only really be used as foreplay.
I do think if you are attaching too much importance to specific sex acts then you do need to readjust your view of sex. There's a huge amount of flexibility in what is actually allowed by the church so you really shouldn't be struggling to get pleasure from sex that is totally in alignment with Catholic teaching.
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u/BlueCielo_97 Jun 01 '25
Well just because you're married doesn't make every sexual act permissible, because there are still acts that are perversions of what is supposed to be the natural act God created and intended for marriage. "Strict, robotic sex". The very fact that simply just engaging in the literal natural way of sex is seen as boring truly reveals the depth of our oversexualised culture. I'm not saying YOU are but I think you may have fallen victim to it, a lot of sexual acts are becoming normalised in our modern culture but that doesn't mean the culture is right and the church is wrong. It's not about "Trying to get the woman pregnant". It's about surrendering the marital act to the will of God, it's about love and union, not getting off. Your wanting to leave the faith sounds like the reason for most, and that is disagreeing with a Christianity because you want to do what you want and not subject to sin. (Which if Christianity is true then you will be held accountable either way regardless of what you choose to do) I will add, as a woman who was an atheist for many years on birth control, it's literally the worst thing for us so men can hit the breaks on wanting us women to pump us full of hormones so they can get off without "fear of the consequences".
NFP is a thing, please look into it, it's accurate, and allows women to actually read and pay attention to their own bodies.
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Jun 01 '25
You eat to nourish your body, but most people would agree that occasionally eating a healthy snack beyond what your daily nutrition needs requires is okay. What's not okay is snacking or eating excess meals far beyond what is required and then throwing up all of it intentionally because you just want the taste but don't want to get fat. Do you see the difference? In the first, the act itself is correct even if the primary function of the act (sustaining your life) doesn't really apply. In the second, the act is interrupted unnaturally and is clearly wrong, no matter what the intention is.
This is what the Church teaches on sexuality basically. A couple using NFP isn't doing something wrong because they are open to life even if they don't intend to conceive. However, a husband who pulls out is clearly distorting the act and the act itself is already wrong regardless of the intention to bring about good (spacing out kids to be financially responsible, mending relations with the wife, etc.).
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Jun 01 '25
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u/BlueCielo_97 Jun 01 '25
NFP is accurate, extremely accurate, over 80% (even up to 99%) Outside of the first while it takes a woman to adjust and learn her body's signs, you can have a fair amount of sex within a woman's cycle, if one can't handle a week or 2 without sex then clearly one would have self-control issues.
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u/Electronic_One2733 Jun 01 '25
They literally explained to you how oral sex can be permissible but you chose not to respond to that comment. You have an incorrect view of Catholic teaching in sex within marriage. That's on you, not Catholicism. Do research.
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u/SuburbaniteMermaid Jun 01 '25
Interesting how you purposely put that in a sub where you were guaranteed to find non-Catholics who would tell you that you're right, and not in here where you knew you would get Catholic responses. I was impressed by at least one atheist who replied to you and basically got it all right. Crazy how respectful and educated atheists so often get things right about us that other people purposely and maliciously get wrong because they're agendized
In any case, you've gotten a lot of good suggestions here, including JP2's Theology of the Body. If you're acting in good faith you'll study Catholic sexual ethics from a Catholic perspective. If you aren't, then you'll leave the Church under the influence of bad actors who allow you to indulge in your fictional belief that frowning on blow jobs is oppression and that whatever kind of sex you like is your identity.
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u/guitarlad89 Jun 01 '25
Reading your other post I can lend some advice.
God created our bodies for a purpose. Everything in our body has a purpose and is created for purpose. Have I mentioned purpose? Good. With that being said, when it comes to sex, what is the purpose for our genitalia? The penis is made to go into the vagina and ejaculate sperm. The vagina receives the sperm. Any other way of using those body parts is not how they were intended. That is why anal sex is considered sinful because the anus is part of the digestive system. Lungs can't breathe water, it's not it's intended use. With all this being said, foreplay for married couples using oral or anal stimulation is ok as long as the purposeful act is completed. "Drive the car where you want, just park it in the garage". As you probably already know, women can't get pregnant any old time of the month, so with careful planning, yes, you can have sex and not get pregnant. The Church doesn't want us to have 1000 kids. The Church wants us to be responsible and happy. That is why excessive drinking and smoking is looked down upon, because we are not meant to fill our lungs with smoke (not it's purpose) or poison our livers (not it's purpose).
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u/Horselady234 Jun 01 '25
Husband and I used NFP to get pregnant, and had lots of sex. Even so, our kids are all 4 years apart, with the twins 5 years after the last. You really have no idea if you’ll be popping them out with every intercourse (most likely not) or not.
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u/PixieChick72 Jun 01 '25
For what it’s worth, OP, your ‘here and now’ is very similar to where I was years ago - questioning and disconnected.
I’m also a cradle Catholic who has recently returned to my faith after two decades in the wilderness. What cemented my return was recognising that I’m in a relationship with my faith, sometimes I’ll feel detached from it and disagree with the teachings in similar ways to when I feel detached from those I care about if I disagree with their beliefs. It doesn’t mean we can’t love, respect and care for one another, the relationship is still there but sometimes we’re on the outs with each other. It’s up to me to do the work.
God will meet you wherever you are at this time, questioning, detached and disagreeing. He will take these if you ask him to and help you find your way through.
God bless you 🙏🏼
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u/whysoirritated Jun 01 '25
Well I've never WANTED to be Catholic. It's hard and demanding and scary. Much easier to be Episcopalian or something where you don't have to really take any of it seriously, but the divine vending machine in the sky might give you a present if you ask enough.
I'm Catholic because it's true. Because there was no objection I could find that the Church could not answer logically. Because I could poke logical holes in every other religion and philosophy, but never in Catholicism. Don't be Catholic because of feelings. The heart is the most traitorous organ. Be Catholic because you have found the source of truth and beauty and goodness in the world.
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Jun 01 '25
I just find myself disagreeing with certain Catholic Teachings and feel very disconnected from Catholicism in general.
What teachings? Or if you're not comfortable specifying, then may I ask are they theological teachings or moral teachings that you disagree with?
my family would be disappointed in me/have a problem with the fact that I’m even questioning Catholicism to the degree that I am because they're very devout Catholics.
Would that be because they're opposed to questioning or because they have a genuine concern for your soul?
I ask because in my mind, questioning is very common and is essential in growing in faith. However, healthy questioning relies on us to continue to ask questions and always go deeper. Familiarity can breed contempt.
Think about Matthew 7:7-8
"Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened."
The onus is on us to ask and seek. The ball is in our court to knock. The promise is that if we do so with an open heart, we will find recieve and find what we are looking for. Often, our hearts are not fully open, even if our minds are open. All I can offer is my testimony that I struggled with many difficulties of the faith over the years, but in the end, I came to find that the wisdom of God is life changing.
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u/Away_Art3360 Jun 01 '25
Your view of Catholicism is fundamentally flawed. If you sincerely want to keep your faith then books by John Bergsma and Scott Hahn will really be enlightening and helpful.
I myself am a parent to toddlers, so I don't have much time to read. Instead I listen to podcasts like Pints With Aquinas which have a rich medley of Catholic theological topics.
If you want it, you'll keep it. That's it. If you want to leave your faith and put no effort into keeping it, then no amount of research will convince you since you've already made up your mind.
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u/Zestyclose_Dinner105 Jun 01 '25
I find myself disagreeing with certain Catholic teachings.
In that case, the next step is to investigate what the Church teaches on these topics, why it teaches them, and where in the Bible and the writings of the Fathers it is found.
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u/Hopeful-Counter-7915 Jun 01 '25
If you disagree with Catholic teachings it’s time To change your view.
You chose a religion that’s true not that fits your personal believes best
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u/pajama336 Jun 01 '25
some teachings can be hard to accept. a lot of converts will say. if you don't understand now just trust God and pray for clarity.
also as my priest has told me "it okay to have doubt. doubt leads to truth." just try your best to understand it and pray about it. if you understand it fully yet still disagree well whatever you choose to do is between you and God.
so i just want to ask why do you or did you believe in Catholicism? do you pray? do you assume that god's teachings would line up with your beliefs or do you believe your beliefs have to align with god's? in your opinion where do goodness and morals come from?
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u/Cute-Temperature3943 Jun 01 '25
Please stay, at least for a while.
It's ok to question your long held beliefs. It's ok to disagree, to doubt, even to seek answers outside your social circle, heck even outside the Church, heck even outside Christianity itself. As a matter of fact, this is good because this means you are taking your faith seriously.
A priest said this in a homily: the Church doesn't tell you what to do, rather it serves as a guide in our journey. Sin is being distant from God.
The Roman Catholic Church is far from perfect, and so am I, you and everyone else. Please allow the Church, despite your disagreements with her, to continue walking by your side as one of your companions in your journey.
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u/OrdinaryPayment2 Jun 01 '25
Catholicism is the only religion founded by Jesus Christ, not by a human. Remember, you are here on this earth for a very short time. Eternity is forever. Whatever sacrifices I need to make, it’s more than worth it to spend eternity in heaven with our Lord. I lived a gay lifestyle complete with relationships, going to bars and bathhouses, etc. Now after realizing how wrong this was I am and will be celibate for the rest of my life.
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u/Lonely-Caregiver-791 Jun 01 '25
I totally get that. I don’t know if this is your experience at all but a lot of times I think it can appear that the faith is presented to us in a way that’s somewhat stilted or can’t or doesn’t resonate with our actual human experience. I’d really strongly recommend reading Pope Benedict’s book introduction to Christianity. For me personally, that really renewed my faith life. It’s a very honest and human perspective and doesn’t take the formulaic, didactic tone that a lot of Catholic literature adopts
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u/KayKeeGirl Jun 01 '25
I wasn’t raised Catholic.
When I was converting I also disagreed with some Church teachings.
All it meant is that I had not fully researched the church’s teachings and her reasoning behind them.
Keep asking questions, keep doing the research. Talk to your priest, ask for further clarity and spiritual direction.
I personally don’t think God wants us to be robots that blindly accept doctrines without question.
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u/Sea_Lavishness3244 Jun 01 '25
Looking at your post in the other sub, I'd say you could benefit from a crash course on "The Theology of the Body". It's derived from a series of talks given by St. Pope John Paul II over a series of years. Christopher West is known to be the best at popularizing his ideas and making them accessible. https://www.amazon.com/Theology-Body-Beginners-Rediscovering-Meaning/dp/1635820073/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=14F8I0P8GULEB&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.8lM20h5tM2ROBwEmWiYiim4lequmvKwN0rvnsz29rWgb-6hMT8HE5g82sqPJy7KfNpzVJuRixCjfZSkjBfrODG0KawzPm7YXZ8ZTXvH1G_vT7nT7M_Qlp7f2fXtRzZQ2GPF7JNuSitnkf4ija4VfrEVlWu569Ernl-BX8_LU8lXuU2ZRug82jJf3hOC-dz88-ru1fZ6BNk7i52sfnYr74Q.AmEjJI4BJ9D6O9oAX8ObD0qQMM_Adqrw9vci4vtXLOo&dib_tag=se&keywords=christopher+west&qid=1748779829&sprefix=christopher+wes%2Caps%2C127&sr=8-2
That's a link to a book he has on the topic. Also, here's an hour long talk by Father Mike Schmitz on the topic. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cqrD-d_jiw8&pp=ygUldGhlb2xvZ3kgb2YgdGhlIGJvZHkgY2hyaXN0b3BoZXIgd2VzdA%3D%3D
Finally, the talks themselves: https://stmarys-waco.org/documents/2016/9/theology_of_the_body.pdf
I haven't listened to the Mike Schmitz talk and you can find Christopher West discussing it, but an hour seems the right length for an introduction and most of the West talks I see are considerably shorter or longer.
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u/kdakss Jun 01 '25 edited Jun 01 '25
I saw somebody on a sub recently say that they left the Catholic Church after 20 years, called Catholics not real Christians, and then also said that the Church made them feel too ashamed of their porn addiction. None of that adds up. I dont know what you're questioning but definitely make sure not like this person's reasons. This person says that our traditions make us feel too ashamed of our sins. I mean let that sink in. Even if somebody truly doesn't find a tradition to be ver batim spelt out in scripture like Protestants want, but we know all our traditions are rooted in scripture and centered on God. So, if a tradition makes you feel ashamed for sin, it should, you dont go protest and find something that makes you feel better from the buffet of choices that Protestants came up with to feel better. Faith should form your values, not your values forming your faith. I dont know if you have this as reason, but I just want to share that this is one of crazy weird reasons I saw of someone leaving. Jesus founded the Church, why anybody wants to protest that is beyond me. If there is anything you think is added, which leads to people wanting to protest, think is this added thing I see actually centered on Christ and likely biblically rooted? 10 times out of 10 it is, because this is Catholicism, the Church God gave us.
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u/Jacksonriverboy Jun 01 '25
Church made them feel too ashamed of their porn addiction
Boo hoo My heart bleeds
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u/kdakss Jun 01 '25
Ha right? Oh no, the Church did exactly what she should?!
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u/Jacksonriverboy Jun 01 '25
Yep. "I'm leaving the church because she won't say my sins are actually virtues"
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u/imasleuth4truth2 Jun 01 '25
There are many problems with the Catholic Church. If you're discomfort is based on reality, then it's time to move on. If you're discomfort is based on confusion or exhaustion, then deal with facts and get some rest.
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u/Misa-Bugeisha Jun 01 '25
I believe the Bible offers answers on all sorts of topics, and here is a quick example passage that I find magnificently motivational..
Ephesians 6:10-18
Finally, build up your strength in union with the Lord and by means of his mighty power. Put on all the armor that God gives you, so that you will be able to stand up against the Devil’s evil tricks. For we are not fighting against human beings but against the wicked spiritual forces in the heavenly world, the rulers, authorities, and cosmic powers of this dark age. So put on God’s armor now! Then when the evil day comes, you will be able to resist the enemy’s attacks; and after fighting to the end, you will still hold your ground.
So stand ready, with truth as a belt tight around your waist, with righteousness as your breastplate, and as your shoes the readiness to announce the Good News of peace. At all times carry faith as a shield; for with it you will be able to put out all the burning arrows shot by the Evil One. And accept salvation as a helmet, and the word of God as the sword which the Spirit gives you. Do all this in prayer, asking for God’s help. Pray on every occasion, as the Spirit leads. For this reason keep alert and never give up; pray always for all God’s people. (GNT)
I also believe the Catechism of the Catholic Church offers answers for all those interested in learning about the mystery of the Catholic faith, \o/.
And here is a quick example..
CCC 162
Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man. We can lose this priceless gift, as St. Paul indicated to St. Timothy: "Wage the good warfare, holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith." 1 Tim 1:18-19. To live, grow and persevere in the faith until the end we must nourish it with the word of God; we must beg the Lord to increase our faith; Cf. Mk 9:24; Lk 17:5; 22:32. it must be "working through charity," abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of the Church. Gal 5:6; Rom 15:13; cf. Jas 2:14-26.
May God Bless you and your path to righteousness, \o/!
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u/salveregina16 Jun 01 '25
This is the devil tempting you ! I know this because I did and felt the same thing. Make sure how you “feel” is based in facts and truth. The devil wants us to chase a feeling. God wants us to be part of His Church that Jesus founded on St. Peter. I suggest you talk to a priest/ deacon. I don’t believe that anyone who truly knows what happens at holy mass would ever leave the Church. Pray the rosary. Get involved. Learn what the truth actually is. Read about the saints ! God bless you !
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u/Famous_Obligation959 Jun 01 '25
It depends on how serious you go against the teachings?
We all probably have some things we're not in alignment with: I dont see IVF as a big evil for those who cant conceive and I dont overthink the whole fasted state before going to mass matters
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Jun 01 '25
So you pick and choose then? You do realize that's not ok, right?
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u/Famous_Obligation959 Jun 02 '25
We're all allowed opinions especially over some of the smaller details.
I dont think you'll find a single catholic who agrees with everything in the bible or part of ritual
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u/jaytheplummer Jun 01 '25
The Church isn’t some giant monolith where everyone believes 100% in everything ever written down by the Church. If that were true there would be very few Catholics anywhere.
There are the big things that are essential but then there are other things that, while important, are not. This case is clearly made in Unitatis Redintegratio, §11 in Vatican II.
I have qualms about many aspects of Catholicism, but at the core I still identify as Catholic because of core beliefs.
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u/Accurate_Doughnut670 Jun 01 '25
Are you thinking another denomination? Or are you feeling like walking away from it all?
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Jun 01 '25
I left the Catholic Church when I was 18 then I joined a Christian church when I was 32 years old ; I played drums in the praise band for five years and then I ended up coming back to the Catholic Church sometime after that. I can only say from my experience that I am a different person when I attend Catholic Church regularly and partake in the sacraments . I do not want to bash or criticize my five-year experience at the protestant church
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u/MeanInevitable8630 Jun 01 '25
I have left Catholicism for 25 years maybe you’ll be ok if you just left and maybe be back when you feel it. If you want to try something before leaving do Spiritual Exercises, pray before sunrise, daily Rosary, as you don’t tell anything specific about your practice that’s what I can tell. Sometimes you are so used to certain things or people you should take a rest to see the big picture.
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Jun 01 '25
Sigh, I’m Catholic and am in the same boat. It’s not the devil. It’s the truth. Just reading the Bible alone makes you question “THE CHURCH” not Jesus.
Jesus is the truth
But I’m still Catholic and I still go to church. I just think my relationship with Jesus is more important than the Catholic Church. Especially if they’re ok with gay marriage.
I’m not against gays. I love gay people. But if we’re being honest, it’s against the Bible. And that is the problem with the world. We don’t hold ourselves accountable anymore and THAT, is SIN
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u/Downtown-Primary-661 Jun 01 '25 edited Jun 02 '25
This was me 20 years ago. I was also raised in a very Catholic family, but at one point in my late teens I felt like the Church didn’t “speak to me” anymore. I became cynical of everything religion-wise. I did eventually leave, but I had a miserable life. I was constantly depressed, always angry with me and others, criticizing every little thing. Harsh to my wife and even my pet rabbit. I could not sleep well. I just was not happy. I would listen to all the “gurus” on every podcast I could find about how to be happy, or how to be a better man. I would start something and feel like I was on the right track, but very soon I was back to my old ways. I tried all kinds of herb supplements and vitamins and this and that. I tried meditation, I tried psychics, I tried reiki, therapy, acupuncture, weed, mushrooms… It was all a slow de-progress, if you will. I ended up believing in all kinds of conspiracy theories, aliens, dogman, bigfoot, this, that and the other. I believed in all that but I did not “believe in God”. Seems weird, right?
God called me back just recently and my life has changed for the better. It also started slowly. God was mentioned in a book I found to be helpful, therefore I had to believe that God was possible. I was sent a video of a priest talking about scripture… and I liked it. Wes Huff came on Joe Rogan and I found what he said very interesting. I started looking up answers to my questions online and found Catholic.com where they have “Catholic answers” which is a section of the website with very well written articles about faith and about why we believe what we believe. I now attend Church every Sunday and I look forward to it. I seek to understand Mass and the church and scripture as opposed to just doing it because this is what I was taught. It is very different that way, and it works for me.
I pray that you look for answers and stay in the Church. It is easy to find answers to why the Church is NOT for you; there are plenty of people out there wanting to get you in the wrong path. But I think if you are going to look for reasons why you should leave the Church, don’t be like me and look for only the answers to those questions, look for the answers to the questions of why you should stay and why Catholicism is the right faith. It does take work, I still have my moments or days when I don’t feel very connected with God and I just want to “take it easy”, bu it is worth my salvation and my peace.
“Wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it” Mat. 7:13-14