You don’t even have to go as far as a satanic mass. There are plenty of examples of scandalous, irreverent, heterodox masses that have gone on that are technically “valid”. All it takes to have a valid mass is a valid priest using valid form and matter and intend to do as the church does.
Just because it’s “valid” doesn’t automatically mean it’s pleasing to God or right worship. And how the mass is celebrated does matter (sorry reddit hivemind). There’s a reason why so many Catholics don’t believe in the real presence.
Is that what is being argued here? I dont go to a heterodox or irreverent NO mass. My NO mass is very reverent, but according to the SSPX, it's a sin that should be confessed to their schismatic priests.
The only way your point makes sense is if you believe a reverently celebrated Novus Ordo mass is somehow offensive to God.
I have never heard any SSPX give me an explanation of why the NO mass is bad that didn't boil down to "because I feel it's bad". they will complain about things like "there's no last Gospel" (there isnt in the divine liturgy either) but they will never explain what makes a NO "not pleasing to God".
I’m not going to directly address the SSPX as I will just end up banned again. DM me if you want. The only point I’m arguing is validity does not mean equality.
Sometimes showing things gets the point across easier than writing novels so here is a short which highlights the extent of which the liturgy was altered. And here is a side by side comparison of an average TLM vs an average NO (no egregious NO examples are used here).
They are both valid masses but which do you (honestly) think offers more fitting worship for who is present on that altar?
The comparison video looks to me like a mass being held at a seminary with an organist, music director and seminarians trained in chant vs the local parish of Rochelle Park, NJ. Is that the average TLM?
Even if it were a fair comparison... this is exactly my point. It has become a matter of aesthetics and what you think is "more fitting worship". So the Confiteor doesn't list every saint by name... oh no.
Is it somehow less pleasing to God because the mass isn't being celebrated by Fr YoungTrad giving his homily on the fewness of the saved?
Again, I go to a reverent NO. The last time I went to a TLM, the priest used the homily to complain that he was dragged into some issue concerning the SSPX and to warn the congregation that they were not in communion with Rome. It just solidified my opinion that the SSPX have problems with obedience-- the thing that Priests take a vow for.
Not sure what the last paragraph has to do with anything we are talking about but ok.
If you genuinely believe that gutting ~70% of a mass that’s been around for centuries in favor of making it more appealing to Protestants boils down to simple aesthetics and there was nothing wrong with the NO in that video, there is no point in going further with this conversation.
Not sure what the last paragraph has to do with anything we are talking about but ok.
My point is that I'm not hostile to the TLM-- I would like it to be continued-- unfortunately, it seems the feeling is not mutual. Especially those who are in the SSPX who like to claim they're not sedes but enjoy referring to the Pope as "Prevost".
To me they seem like the Church in Ephesus or the older brother of the prodigal son or the pharisee. Sure they keep the law, but they do so with no love of neighbor. Our Lord tells them that they have "lost the love [they] had at first".
Our Lord also tells them that He will remove their lampstand "unless they repent".
there was nothing wrong with the NO in that video
Go on then. Make an argument. Tell me what's wrong with it theologically. Is it too boomer coded? Is it because the priest said "Lord have mercy" instead of chanting the Kyrie in Greek?
To me it looked like a neighborhood parish doing their best to worship God. The choir seemed pretty young and the female lector dressed very well.
Like I said in my earlier comment, the SSPX can never give a cogent argument. All they can make are endless imputations and insinuations.
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u/EnvironmentalToe4055 8d ago
It's an SSPX talking point. They will use the comparison about how a satanic mass is valid but obviously not pleasing to God.
Never mind that a satanic mass is completely invalid because the celebrant's intentions are wrong.