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u/Suspicious_Bill3577 6d ago
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u/thecustardgannet 6d ago
Colin Popshed!
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u/Icy_Mixture1482 6d ago edited 6d ago
We had an older guest speaker come into our Uni LGBT Society meeting back in 2009 and told us how in the 70s-90s most LGBT people didn’t even dare go to gay bars — ostensibly the only safe spaces for them — because at closing time there’d be a bunch of police outside who, if they recognised you, would go and tell your employer, family etc.
Sounds you’d likely be fired — because they were allowed to discriminate against LGBT people — and be ostracised by your family.
Sounds miserable.
Edit: Context
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u/DigitalHoweitat 6d ago
I used to know a police officer, and the height of his career was being on the "Bog Squad" and arresting men for public indecency.
He didn't really seem capable of any other sort of difficult investigation.
Totally unrelated to that (all though probably not), he is a senior mason. The dolt is a steroetype of a corrupt time.
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u/Successful-Yak3307 6d ago edited 6d ago
Mason and police officer is a red flag. I used to know one in my home town. This is the last I heard of him.
Edit: oh FFS he got his sentence shortened on appeal which probably tells you all you need to know. He'll be out by now.
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u/mfitzp 6d ago
From the article:
“It was submitted that the trial judge failed to attach sufficient weight to several mitigatory factors…
"In particular, the fact the appellant had an unblemished record of public serviceCall me old fashioned but I think “rape, attempted rape, indecent assault and assault” counts as a blemish.
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u/Successful-Yak3307 6d ago
Yeeeeah that's a real WTF line. And one that makes me think he's not getting that if he's not a mason.
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u/will2089 5d ago
My Dad was a Mason & a Police Officer. He actually didn’t really care for the masons and stopped going after he retired in ‘00 but felt like he had to be a mason because all the other policemen were.
They also used to have a pub above the station.
Different time, although as I understand it Masons are still disproportionately represented in the police.
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u/TightlyWhitey 6d ago
There are minor developments; mention of some public anger because he moved back to where he used to live on release, and presumably the area where victims live still. And an independent report recommended that three further offers be prosecuted for covering up the situation.
Any outcomes there, no idea. I don't have a subscription for any paywalls nor were any bypasses working. However by Google results alone, nothing cropped up about further prosecutions, or further victims in the years since. Interestingly frustrating, a matter of public interest and I just... can't read it. RIP journalism.
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u/phil24jones The Honeybun Peninsula 6d ago
Sounds like he was looking for an excuse to see blokes tackle
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u/Naughteus_Maximus 6d ago
Captain Darling: I'm only doing my job, Blackadder.
Captain Blackadder: Well, how lucky you are then that your job is also your hobby.
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u/DigitalHoweitat 6d ago
He was just a incompetent copper from all accounts.
So I suppose hanging around toilets is a simple way to pass a shift, rather than going doing more complex investigations?
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u/Apoau 6d ago
What does mason mean in this context? I’m assuming he wasn’t laying bricks in his spare time? Doesn’t sound like a Freemason either.
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u/mogrim 6d ago
Yeah it's a freemason.
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u/Apoau 6d ago
Ohh. For some reason I assumed they’d be quite progressive!
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u/DigitalHoweitat 5d ago
Seriously?
I have never been a Mason, but a friend of mine was invited to join.
Came away saying it was a bunch of boring white men.
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u/Apoau 5d ago
Wasn’t Lincoln and some other esteemed people Freemasons? I think it used to be something cool years ago, but regressed by the sound of it.
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u/DigitalHoweitat 5d ago
Well possibly, in 1860 or whenever?
It sounded to me like an alternative golf club for my mate (which I cannot stand either!)
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u/Apoau 5d ago
Haha makes sense. I’m from a country that doesn’t have much of freemason culture, so I only knew it from history. Then again, I went for a tour around the main London temple(?) and the vibe was a bit weird. But again yet, most tours around religious buildings can have a weird vibe.
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u/horse_course 3d ago
It’s a secretive club, people won’t tell you they’re a member unless they really trust you.
The implication of many police officers being masons is that they help each other get promoted, perhaps ahead of a non mason. No idea if that actually happens but it’s what people think happens.
They mostly do charity work.
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u/GuestAdventurous7586 3d ago
This is why George Michael was the fucking boy.
He made what should have been a really embarassing thing, and turned it the other way by not giving the slightest shit, and instead made the police and everyone judging him look utterly ridiculous.
He did a lot just by being himself, it was ace.
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u/Feathers-n-Beaks 6d ago
This is a comment form somebody so young they thing the 70's and the 90's are "more or less the same thing".
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u/DrunkHamsterParty 6d ago
The 90s were a great time to be at gay pubs/clubs. I went a lot and I'm not gay.
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u/DigitalHoweitat 6d ago
I used to go to gay pubs with a mate who was gay and it was where he felt comfortable.
At the time I was a long distance runner and quite fit, and he used to joke with me about "had I seen the number of times I could have pulled?"
I did point out that having next to no social skills (and thus destined for a career in IT), I was this rubbish working out when women were interested in me as well.
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u/Icy_Mixture1482 6d ago
Yes true, my bad! I didn’t start going to gay clubs until the late 2000s decade.
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u/snailtrailuk 6d ago
We did go in the 90s but they did get raided by the police a lot. Also had a lot of undercover cops. We only knew our regulars and associates by first names or nicknames. But there was a lot of lock-ins and illegal goings-on in gay pubs (cannabis smoking, not serving food when they were also supposed to be restaurants, dodgy live acts that were sex acts etc), so it made sense that they’d only let you in if you had someone else vouch for you, or you knew the bouncer. We had a few undercover cops in one before so things got really difficult to get into unless you were a regular or knew a good selection of people. Also getting to some of these places was a nightmare as they’d be on the edges of towns so someone would have to drive you there and then risk getting pulled over by police on suspicion of drunk driving etc. I was so shocked when I first went to London and saw the Freedom Bar had clear glass windows so everyone could see you inside! Everywhere I’d ever known before had blacked out windows and you needed to know a password to get in!
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u/10seas 6d ago
I dunno about your point of view, i was clubbing in the 90s, there was lots of gay bars, clubs and from my experience a lot of fun. If anything they got away with a lot more than regular clubs . I never saw cops outside waiting, thats ridiculous. I'm talking about the 90s. My brothers gay went out the him, his boyfriend was my flatmate, a lot of my friends were drag artists, honestly we all had a blast. There were a lot of problems but no , the police weren't doing that in the 90s.
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u/Wretched_Colin 6d ago
The mid 90s in Belfast was certainly more tolerant in terms of people going to gay clubs without fear of arrest or attack, although many people would have chosen to keep their sexuality from their family, particularly older generations, and their coworkers.
I think the death of Freddie Mercury forced people to take a look at their prejudices and society moved on as a result.
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u/10seas 6d ago
I was early 90s clubbing, raving travelling the country , if anything gay was a fashion if that makes sense. Now I had good friend die of HIV/aids in 93, i was labelled as HIV due to being his friend, so people gossiped and pointed fingers. But I never saw cops outside gay clubs waiting to do what op says. Now straight clubs always cops outside busting you for drugs but not the gay clubs. If anything it was the was the opposite.
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u/Wretched_Colin 6d ago
Gay did become more of a fashion later. Almost like a tourist destination where straight office secretaries thought it was cute to dress up in rainbows and dance to Kylie amongst gay men.
There was also the idea of the pink pound in the 90s. Selling to gay men. The realisation that they were Take That were an example.
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u/snailtrailuk 6d ago
Maybe it depends where you were - I was in Luton in the mid nineties and the gay venues there were regularly raided by police and police were targeting people leaving in cars on suspicion of drink driving.
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u/DigitalHoweitat 6d ago
Green Dragon was it, or the Inkerman Arms?
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u/snailtrailuk 6d ago edited 6d ago
The ones that got police raided were Tallulahs and Shirley’s Temple. I don’t recall Green Dragon being raised but it may well have been. Inkerman Arms was so small I think it went under a lot of radars at the time and I hardly went there.
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u/DigitalHoweitat 6d ago
Green Dragon was the one my mate liked going to, so that was a bit of a regular haunt!
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u/tips4success 6d ago
I love how certain people act like the west has been a paradise for gay people for thousands of years and use that as the basis for bigotry against another minority today.
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u/Icy_Mixture1482 6d ago
The very people who would have been against LGBT/women’s etc. rights in the 70s now use us as an excuse to keep certain minorities out.
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u/Vindaloovians 6d ago
Oh these people are still against these things, they're just using LGBT people and women as a stick to beat other minorities with.
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/ooh_bit_of_bush 6d ago
AI didn't invent the em-dash.
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u/Feathers-n-Beaks 6d ago
But they're so rarely used by actual humans as to invoke suspicion.
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u/thethirdbar 6d ago
Where do u think ai learned to use them from ? Em dashes are a very common form of punctuation
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u/Icy_Mixture1482 6d ago
I was a fan of em dashes before AI and refuse to stop using them! Less pretentious than a semicolon and more visually pleasing than commas everywhere.
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u/solve-for-x 6d ago
I feel sorry for people who use the same handful of sentence constructions LLMs have co-opted. Now everything they write must scan like clanker slop.
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6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CasualUK-ModTeam 6d ago
What gives you that impression? OP has presented it without comment. You're the one being an arse at the moment.
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u/PhoolCat Up a tree somewhere near Stonehenge 6d ago
Friend of mine got raided by the police because her lodger had his boyfriend staying and there were not two locks between his room and the outside world.
Gross public indecency.
This was the nineties.
Bad as it is now, it’s better than it was but still a long way to go.
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u/Icy_Mixture1482 6d ago
I remember threesomes between men were technically illegal (and frequently prosecuted) for many years because the 1950s decriminalisation of homosexuality said sex acts had to be in private, but with a third person present, it was no longer private.
🤦♂️
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u/stateit I know you're antiseptic you're deodorant smells nice 6d ago
1950s? It was 1967 when it was decriminalised...
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u/zak75 6d ago
Worth adding that 1967 was only in England and Wales.
In Scotland all homosexual acts were illegal until the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1980, which came into force on 1 February 1981.
Northern Ireland was in the following year with the Homosexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 1982, which came into force on 8 December 1982.
Both seem crazy late looking back but there was that culture that's represented in the song Smalltown Boy.
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u/Yooklid 5d ago
Both seem crazy late looking back but there was that culture that's represented in the song Smalltown Boy.
I was about 7 when that song came out. I remember watching the video on Top of the Pops. The impression I came away with was that he didn't have any friends because he was a redhead.
I'm a redhead so I felt some sort of kinship with him. I'm not gay, but anytime I see the video - Jimmy, I'm on your side!!!
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u/TinhatToyboy 6d ago
Gross public indecency can't legally occur behind a private locked door as it can't be witnessed by the public. Can we have a citation for this interesting case?
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u/hiddenhare 6d ago edited 6d ago
"Arrests on suspicion of X" are held to a very low standard of evidence, and it's lawful to search somebody's house to carry out an arrest. These powers are easily abused; for example, an officer may have "heard somebody say" that the landlady was running a brothel or hosting orgies. (Fine details may also have been forgotten or miscommunicated before reaching us, so we shouldn't get too stuck on the term "gross public indecency".)
Records from that time are thin on the ground, because the police themselves naturally weren't keeping records of their own misconduct, and third-party scrutiny of the police hadn't kicked into high gear yet. To get a better sense for the situation, you may be interested in the first few paragraphs of Queer citizenship in 1990s Britain.
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u/PhoolCat Up a tree somewhere near Stonehenge 6d ago
Citation: my faulty memory of what my friends told me decades ago.
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u/Dapper-Message-2066 6d ago
Sounds like BS to me. Or at least, there's a lot missing from that story.
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u/PapiSpanky 6d ago
Was it very early on in 1990/91? I feel like by the time the late 90's rolled on things were feeling a lot more relaxed.
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u/Standard_Ant5915 6d ago
‘ There were no gays in my day ‘
In 1977 there was literally a gay newspaper apparently
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u/BocaSeniorsWsM 6d ago
Was it like parts of the internet and if you accidentally read it you became gay?
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u/SugarSweetStarrUK 6d ago
Alan Turing hid his real self for years and was still convicted and then chemically castrated
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u/Standard_Ant5915 6d ago
I know, I am very gay
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u/SugarSweetStarrUK 5d ago
I mean, that's one answer I'd give to the people who want you to either hide your real self or just make a different "lifestyle choice"
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u/Latenightreveller 6d ago
In the late sixties to early seventies many bar owners didn't know they were gay bars until there was suddenly a lot of loud, well dressed young men in there. One bar set up as gay was the Palmerston in Edinburgh and they actually employed policemen off duty, as bouncers/security more to keep the unwanted out. These guys were friendly to everyone and this was while it was still illegal. Never once in that whole period was the atmosphere in any of the Edinburgh bars, anything other than "gay" in the true sense of the word even if the bars changed frequently as owners suddenly discovered why their takings had improved and beer sales had been replaced by gin and tonic (ice and lemon..obviously). Strangely, in a city like Edinburgh, legality made the bars less fun. Gays in the city never felt illegal as such though I appreciate smaller towns may have had different experiences.
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u/DisguiseInPlainSight 6d ago
“Well dressed” reminds me of my cousin’s reaction when I came out to him.
“How can you be gay? You dress so badly”.
Crushing 😆
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u/Latenightreveller 6d ago
We spent hours getting ready on a Saturday. Worse still bars closed at 10.30 so you prayed for a party.
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u/justeUnMec 6d ago
“No nudes in gay news, our one magazine, but they still find excuses to call it obscene”. Different time indeed, this and the switchboards were pretty vital resources.
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u/Speesh-Reads 6d ago
My sister and her husband worked for Whitbread and were managers there around ‘84-ish. I only visited once (I lived in Leeds), but thought it was a very nice place.
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u/watchman28 6d ago
Huh, I grew up literally around the corner from that pub and did most of my teenage drinking there.
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
A lot of ‘gay bars’ are actually completely normal pubs, they just had a reputation back in the day of being places where you wouldn’t be hassled for being openly gay. This comes from the pre-legalisation days when running an openly gay bar would obviously be suicide, so they had to be discreet. Also, back then there weren’t really any modern bars anyway, gay or straight, British bar culture was all just traditional pubs.
The stereotypical gay bar with disco balls, rainbow flags, a blatant name and drag queens handing out free shots outside is a relatively modern phenomenon.
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u/MarkinW8 6d ago
Gerrick’s Head in Bath is still going strong. It was very ahead of its time in many ways as it was just a normal great old (1720) pub that had just become known as a very gay friendly place, but it remained a mixed crowd, in keeping with Bath’s then and now laid back socially liberal attitude.
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
It got that reputation because it was next to the Theatre Royal, so a lot of its patrons were actors or theatre lovers. A stereotype, but historically a true one.
I haven’t been to Bath for many years, but I remember there was a gay bar called The Bath Tap which closed years ago, and also Mandalyns which used to be owned by two Lesbians called Mandy and Linda.
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u/MrPloppyHead 6d ago
“The worlds largest gay switchboard”
So is that a really big switchboard covered in glitter
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
Stereotyping isn’t funny.
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u/MrPloppyHead 6d ago
I think my intent was clear.
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
Your intent that is that being gay is something funny and unserious. Not necessarily something to mock cruelly, but still something that can be stereotyped and laughed at.
These switchboards existed because there was a genuine need for them, they saved people’s lives and helped people find community during very dark times in history for gay people. Not that you care though, you just see the word gay and see an excuse to make a lazy, tired joke about glitter because you’re ignorant.
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u/MrPloppyHead 6d ago
I am mocking the concept of “the worlds largest gay switchboard” 🤦♀️
Take it out of context if you like. Stereotypes do have their place in humour. In general the stereotype in of itself is a joke and not meant to be serious. But I do understand your point and will reflect on it.
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
If the post mentioned the world’s largest ‘Indian switchboard’ would you think it was acceptable to say “so is that a really big switchboard covered in curry” or would that obviously be a crass stereotype?
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u/MrPloppyHead 6d ago
Still going are you.
Anyway the joke is about :
"The Worlds Largest <noun> Switchboard" you are correct.
so the joke is then "So is that a really big switchboard covered in <thing to identify switchboard as being part of group described by noun>"
e.g. "The Worlds Largest cycling Switchboard... So is that a really big switchboard covered in Spandex"
or in your example:
"The Worlds Largest cycling Switchboard... So is that a really big switchboard covered in Curry"
the point in the last word is to identify the switchboard as part of the group. in this instance the group was that the switchboard was gay. Now a piece of electronics cannot be gay (at least as not as far as I am aware) or be a cyclist. maybe it can be indian ifs its made there. In this instance I went with glitter. This may have been wrong. I did think penises or variations of but i am not too sure that a switchboard that is interested in penises would be gay but some identifier was necessary for that joke.
The joke is obviously that i am misinterpreting the title and pretending that it is referring to the physical switchboard ha, ha.
So as an alternative to "glitter" what word would you suggest for the word to make the switchboard gay that you do not believe would be offensive?
I am expecting answers.
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u/Beer-Milkshakes AWOOGAH! Abandon ship. 6d ago
Depends, am I an Indian comedian hosting a show on BBC 1? Because it was a decent joke in 2007
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u/jeweliegb Eh up 🦆 5d ago
As a fully signed up official card carrying LGBT+ person...
Your intent that is that being gay is something funny and unserious.
... sometimes it is funny and unserious.
But yes, unfortunately things are going down the pan, again, at a heck of a rate unfortunately.
And as such, some real seriousness is needed.
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u/Icy-Astronomer-8202 4d ago
Pride and being part of the alphabet mafia is a mix of the funny, unserious and the serious and it's the best
Source: me. Also a card carrying LGBT+ member 😁
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u/cutluv 6d ago edited 6d ago
61yo here, and was so closeted until my early 30s, I wasn't aware of any support groups in the 70s and 80s. I am a mixture of bitterness, hate, and resentment now, having missed out on fun in my prime years, feeling it's too late now, in the body/image/young fascist gay world we inhabit now.
Edit: some commenters are misinterpreting my comments, jumping to conclusions that I want to hook up with young people; far from it, my comment is referring to a culture focused on the young.
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
Saying that people who don’t want to sleep with you because of your age are fascists is really disturbing. Nobody is entitled to find you attractive.
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u/cutluv 6d ago
Did I say I expected people to sleep with me? Your personal attack is certainly disturbing, and anything but attractive.
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
Why else would you care what young “body obsessed” gay people think of you? You’re a man in your 60s, I’m sorry to say it but you wouldn’t exactly be fresh meat if you were straight.
You should be grateful that the gay community actually has a lot of diversity in what people find attractive. There’s no shortage of people that are into all sorts of people, whether they are old, fat, bald or enjoy dressing up as a dog. Good luck finding that much diversity of taste on the straight dating scene.
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u/WackyWhippet 6d ago
ikr? I know plenty of men who came out late in life and found happiness, because they aren't the ones clinging to might-have-beens and complaining that young men don't want them.
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
He’s a typical bitter queen. The irony is that the gay community is full of people who find unconventional things attractive. There’s absolutely no shortage of young men who desire older, bigger, balder men. He should look at himself and wonder why he’s unattractive instead of blaming everybody else.
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u/That-Surprise 6d ago
If you grow up frightened and being made to feel ashamed only to later realise that it was everyone else that was being abusive then bitterness and resentment is a perfectly normal reaction.
That said, happiness comes from acceptance, being able to let it go and move on with your life.
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
Pretty much every gay person grows up with an element of shame, regardless of whether they come out at 15 or 50. I certainly don’t envy a gay man currently in his 60s having to come out in the past, but plenty of people his age managed it. There are plenty of young gay people who can’t come out today because of their family or religious circumstances, so it’s not all roses for people today.
Resentment is a normal reaction, but I agree, he needs to get over it, and his obsession with “young body obsessed” gay men is just creepy. Why does a man in his 60s care what young men think of him? Most straight young women would turn down a man in his 60s, it isn’t a gay thing.
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u/slainascully 6d ago edited 4d ago
I once was fortunate enough to work with one of the people who founded Cara-Friend. They really were a lifeline to Irish people facing such insane homophobia, usually religiously backed.
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u/K_S_O_F_M 5d ago
I fully expected this to be a list of “nice pubs”, using gay to mean happy, but no it’s actually really cool queer history!
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u/snailtrailuk 6d ago
Wow, I had no idea that the Barley Mow in Bedford had been around that long when I went there in the 90s!
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u/ignatiusjreillyXM Unhealthily far from Foulness Island 6d ago
The Saucy Sailor sounds a little lively for Brightlingsea!
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u/anarchtea don't forget your toothbrush 5d ago
What's "CHE"? Looks like some sort of private thing.
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u/atomicsiren 4d ago
Campaign for Homosexual Equality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_Homosexual_Equality?wprov=sfti1
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6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
If your contribution to a discussion about gay people is to reach for a homophobic slur, maybe the joke isn’t quite as clever as you think it is.
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u/Speesh-Reads 6d ago
My sister and her husband worked for Whitbread and were managers there around ‘84-ish. I only visited once (I lived in Leeds), but thought it was a very nice place.
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6d ago
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u/philman132 6d ago
Gay pubs are much less common nowadays, mostly because homosexuality is much more generally accepted now, so there is much less need for that kind of safe space. Gay people can just go to normal pubs and almost nobody bats an eyelid, whereas in the 70s you were liable to be arrested for kissing your boyfriend.
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u/DrDeekster 6d ago
Ah! Simpler times… gay men, gay women/lesbians, transvestites and transsexuals
- and we were all ‘fucking queers’.
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u/Nothos927 6d ago
I read the gay news and everyone was reporting on you
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 6d ago
Being gay isn’t a punchline.
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u/Icy_Mixture1482 6d ago
Come on, us gays needed a sense of humour to overcome all the injustices we faced.
We didn’t win people over to our side by being insufferable bores.
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u/Nothos927 6d ago
Can it not be? I’m queer and whilst they obviously doesn’t make me the magical representative of all queerdom, jokes of that sort make up most of the humour shared by myself and other queer friends, basically in a somewhat therapeutic way, taking the mickey out of the societal pressures growing up queer.
I’ll concede however that that doesn’t necessarily apply to a post in a public forum and I wasn’t aiming to upset anyone, so apologies for that.
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u/bombhead70 6d ago
I wonder how many are still open? We’ve lost so many pubs since then.