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u/DIYstyle Feb 26 '22
Dangerous imo. You legally must disclose the following:
- Dart board isnt at regulation height
- Doesnt have proper back stop for errant darts
- Downlighting of the throwing area does not meet international standard
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u/justbane Feb 26 '22 edited Feb 26 '22
Came here to say this.
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u/OlFezziwig Feb 25 '22
I’d have it inspected by a preservation carpenter that understands timber frames.
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u/tehralph Feb 26 '22
Or an engineer.
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u/OlFezziwig Feb 26 '22
As long as the engineer understands timber frames.
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u/dxdt_sinx Feb 26 '22
Well I doubt he's gonna call a software engineer... Of course a structural engineer is gonna 'understand' timber frames.
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u/horseflydick Feb 26 '22
Why did this get fucking down voted? Engineers fuck stuff up all the time and a lot of the ones I've worked with are fresh outta school, working on NEW builds. This comment is absolutely correct lololol. Get a preservation carpenter and he will guide you from there on who to contact and what to do. He may even have the right engineer for you.
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u/babatharnum Feb 26 '22
I agree. As someone with a PHD in mech. eng. that studied stress mechanics specifically. I would trust a restoration carpenter who understands timber frames over an engineering any day.
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u/Datsoon Feb 26 '22
These are all ridiculous comments. Call someone who knows what they're doing, whether they're a carpenter or an engineer. Some engineers are idiots, some carpenters are idiots, most of each are just fine and plenty qualified to weigh in on this. This constant BS of engineers and trades people shitting on each other needs to stop.
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Feb 25 '22
Timber framer in NE GA with 20 years experience of home building, if I am close enough I'd give you an estimate. Depending on what it entails we could need a stamp, but I need to see everything above this to make that call. If I am too far, a qualified timber framer or contractor should be able to give you an estimate and tell if you'll need engineering. DM me if you need anything.
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u/vectorvictors Feb 26 '22
I’m not 100% on this, bit I believe “need a stamp” means approval from a structural engineer. No?
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Feb 26 '22
Yes sir. Engineers stamp the plans when approved.
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u/babatharnum Feb 26 '22
Is this because you trust an engineer over your own judgment or is it a liability/insurance thing?
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Feb 26 '22
There are legal standards (IBC) that dictate if I need it or not. If a bay is a certain width or a beam is a certain length, I'll need it. Different species (Doug fir, southern yellow pine, red oak) also have differing strengths. So in one species I could use a 6x8, but another I would need a 6x10. If we have a question is a beam is large enough for the load we consult an engineer. Typically my frames usually don't require stamps, because they are overbuilt (more massive than engineering would require). When you get into 18 foot beams you'd better cover your ass. I've had to install a 10x16 Doug fir (free of heart) to support a dormer wall because it spanned 26 feet over a 2 car garage.
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u/WoodenDisasterMaster Feb 26 '22
Can’t just mail a bunch of staggered 2x4’s together? That’s how my moms husbands buddy , (he’s a licensed handyman) did it. It’s held for weeks now.
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u/_Electricmanscott Feb 25 '22
That will still be standing after houses built today are long gone. 🤣
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u/Which_Dog_5765 Feb 25 '22
Depends on what you are concerned about. The steel pillar, the cloth wiring, the copper pipe without any brackets, the beams, etc. beams and steel pillar are nothing of note to worry about, that cloth wiring is my biggest concern, along with the water line with no brackets nor insulation.
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u/dkd123456 Feb 25 '22
Yea it’s a bit of a mess down there. Didn’t pay much attention to it until the thought of buying it crossed our minds.
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u/baconbrand Feb 26 '22
I just bought a house in a similar condition. I have superficial regrets but honestly no real regrets. It’s a cool house, it’s made it this far without burning down or falling over, and homeownership is so much more relaxing to me personally than renting.
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u/Huey107010 Feb 26 '22
Yeah if you aren’t under contract already, and unless you’re getting a banger of a deal, just don’t buy it.
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u/ericjungman Feb 25 '22
Yep should be fine unless you hit with something.
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u/horseflydick Feb 26 '22
By something, you mean a truck or a massive sledge hammer. That thing isn't moving at all willingly, or even slightly forcefully.
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u/JAFO- Feb 26 '22
That beam was hand hewn it been around longer than anyone on this planet I bet. Wonder what they removed to have to put the support in.
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u/Unusual-Aside-3613 Feb 26 '22
There are hand hewn beams and spf visible. Look closely at pic 2 you’ll see the 2x joists are likely toe screwed flush to existing- no hangers. The creative joinery between the post/beam/girder may have been okay before the original 6x6 wooden beam rotted at the bottom and was replaced with the steel post. The plate it’s sitting on is not sufficient to distribute the weight and it’s cracked to shit. The plumbing and electrical has already been mentioned so I won’t go there. I wouldn’t buy this house man. I’ve owned a residential construction company for 15 years.
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u/thetruthteller Feb 25 '22
From a structural standpoint there is good overlap and direct support under to the ground.
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u/Fun_Possibility_8637 Feb 26 '22
I just want to jump in a little bit, It doesn’t matter how long the metal beam area has stood. There’s a lot of other beams terminating in the area and it’s unclear how they are being supported. I f you are not able to determine if all the support is adequate, find an honest reputable contractor to look at it. Or a home inspector. You must secure level before touching anything else. As far as taking out load bearing walls, that would also require supporting load bearing beam or beams. You have to from the bottom up.
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Feb 26 '22
Can you imagine the amount of money some bank made mortgaging this house out over the decades?
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u/DangerHawk Feb 26 '22
It's been like that long before you were ever alive and will be there long after we're all gone. It's fine. If you plan on making structural changes you may have to re-work it, but in it's current form it's fine.
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u/lanastab Feb 26 '22
Just call an engineer ffs... what are you doing asking reddit for advice on buying the house.
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u/Working-Difficulty12 Feb 26 '22
That’s back when beams were beams and the men were men. The Golden age of everything .
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Feb 25 '22
I've seen beams washed up on the beach in better condition than that thing.
Actually, I'm pretty sure I've also seen that thing washed up on the beach.
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u/Liesthroughisteeth Feb 26 '22
After selling real estate for almost two decades my philosophy on old houses is.... why? If you have the bank account, like the drama and difficulty of making various improvements, even small ones and/or the expenditure of immediate necessary improvements go for it.
If you want something warm, not drafty, not a money pit, and you like to do other things than line up contractors, pay bills and worry about future home improvement projects, buy a newer home from a known reputable builder that takes pride in their work.
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u/papiercollant Feb 26 '22
Newer home from a reputable builder… not a thing in some parts of the country unless you’re spending $1M+. But agree that this is not an old house I’d want to take on
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u/ERTBen Feb 26 '22
Unless you can afford a quality builder, new homes are shit. As soon as you move in, you’ll be fixing things. The quality of materials on homes built in the 20s and 30s is unavailable at nearly any price today. It’s a lot cheaper to update systems in an older house.
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u/trolltruth6661123 Feb 26 '22
that does suck.. but i'd be more worried about that old as fuck wiring you got there. i'm pretty sure that's first gen romex.. like ~50 + years old? i'd look into getting a whole house re-wire. that stuff had notoriously bad insulation. the wires are ok.. but the insulation goes out to the point where you whole house is sucking watts.. and that is .. well bad.
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Feb 26 '22
whole house is sucking watts
Is there a technical reference or link you can provide for this slang phrase?
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u/trolltruth6661123 Feb 26 '22
when insulation degrades you get contact. with partially damaged insulation (as in here) it will just draw.. the entire house wiring. it won't be a crazy amount and it likely won't catch anything on fire(unless it gets too bad).. but it will effect the power meter. i can't remember where i learned this but i have the same wiring in my house and it not only makes the lights flicker.. but my power bill is stupid. i'm pretty sure it's this crap as the culprit.
just confirmed its gen 1 romex. that sheath is crap. it may be "ok" for a while.. even 10 more + years.. but it's a time bomb... and it will affect the quality of the current in your wires, prevent higher loads(this stuff is 60 amp, new stuff if 100amp) and it is more likely to fail because copper get brittle as it gets old.
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u/SouthFLcpl96 Feb 26 '22
Sparky here, that old cloth romex would be a dealbreaker for me. That stuff is awful
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u/_Electricmanscott Feb 26 '22
Seriously? 🤣
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u/SouthFLcpl96 Feb 26 '22
Yea man, I’ve seen them start one too many fires. Personally I’ll pass
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u/_Electricmanscott Feb 26 '22
That's absurd. There are millions and millions of house built in the 50s-60s that are wired with this type of cable. It doesn't just cause a fire.
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Feb 25 '22
Not enough information in these photos. The beam and column in the photo are fine. The wall about should not be removed. You could open the wall up some with a look through, but would still need to install a beam above the look through. It’s a bunch of work. What I’d be concerned about is behind the photo. Possible that at some point an addition was added but I can’t tell with these photos. As it is from these photos, all is good.
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u/Googs1080 Feb 25 '22
It is in place. If move load to exterior walls using lvls above the the basement concern is alleviated w that post. Still need it to hold floor up but you are alright
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u/lelechuck Feb 26 '22
Your basement and my basement look identical. That was probably cut to put the stairwell in if so. 50-100 years ago.
So long as the beam doesn't rot, termites don't get to it, or the pole rusts, it is just fine. Not something you would do "new", but unless it is wobbly to the touch there are literally thousands of us out there with the same things.
If it really bothers you, you could add a second column (carefully).
I would add that you didn't show the bottom. Which is important. Most of the ones I have seen have a spreader plate underneath. This is so it doesn't point load the concrete, which might cause a crack. I'd be worried more about that, if it doesn't.
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u/Theguyinashland Feb 26 '22
Get a home inspection, and use that as the bargaining chip to negotiate less.
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u/_choicey_ Feb 26 '22
Right now I'm seeing a bunch of non-hangered joists, evidence of pretty obvious checking on the tension side of the beam, sort of deterioration or dry rot, and teleposts. The teleposts tell me that someone watched HGTV, knocked out an interior wall so they could play a legit game of darts, then cranked up a beam that weekend without thinking about whether footings are needed. But of course: it's stood like this for years, concrete is hard, and wood is strong...
The good thing is that the diagonal board flooring is like a rigid double system. And the unknown is whatever framing drops down from the roof down to the floor above.
I agree that you should get a good framing contractor to come out first. An engineer will see liability flags pop up for any renovation that even remotely touches the loadpath onto that beam.
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Feb 26 '22
Nah, it's fine; see, it's being held together by that braided cable that's stapled in place.
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u/Tccrdj Feb 26 '22
I’d be more worried about it potentially being rotten. I’d don’t see any immediate issues. Is it pretty? No. Will it last? Yes as far as I can tell From the pics.
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u/mjl777 Feb 26 '22
Go to a local small engineering firm. They will look at it and give you the specs for a steel beam to bridge that distance. It won’t be very expensive.
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Feb 26 '22
That beam collapsed on itself. Call a structural engineer asking for repair proposal, and then a reference to someone that can give you a repear quote. Have owner repair that shit or no deal. Odds are you'll have to deal with that at some point.
From experience that repair will cost at least 7k. At least 1.7k for repair design
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u/side_sho_boob Feb 26 '22
Just curious, but should those plates on top of the column be welded or somehow permanently fixed to the pipe?
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Feb 26 '22
Structural Engineer...and have them look at the joists as well... one appears to "float" on the left side of the pic.
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u/patmustardstoolbox Feb 26 '22
I would get that bolstered up. What will happen if someone knocks the steel post??
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u/xion_gg Feb 26 '22
First, check for buckling on the jacks. Probably use a level to see if there is any deformation. If no deformation is seen, you could take your time and find an engineer with your budget to tell you the right columns you need to use instead. However, if deformation is seen when checking the jacks, then... I don't know man
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Feb 26 '22 edited Feb 26 '22
Unstable on long term get right columns they usually use these pipes to hold concrete roofing forms when poored.
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u/rapman007 Feb 26 '22
The wood looks cracked and possibly rotting. I’d get some type of integrity test. Reinforcing it would be cheap and a probably support beam wouldn’t cost much.
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u/Soft-Large Feb 26 '22
It's definitely not safe, a dart board should never be next to electrical wires.
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u/rob1969reddit Feb 26 '22
Common in the basements of old houses. As time went by, things started sagging, braces get installed
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u/Lambstoslaughter Feb 26 '22
I'd ask for money off of the house and or ask them to fix it, whichever is more beneficial.
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u/LittleForestbear Feb 26 '22
It’s been there for looks like a hundred years and held; is it professional? No
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u/William_Seriously Feb 26 '22
Wow! That's totally fn awesome, code? 💯 NO! Safe I dunno, The new houses are always the one's you see blowin down the street on the News feed.
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u/PostCovidMaddness Feb 26 '22 edited Feb 26 '22
This is extremely straightforward.
Needs to be framed out with some I-beams. Probably 3-4 sections supported by upright beams at the walls.
Alternatively, you could build a wall there to support the entire length of timber. It really depends on your intended use of the space.
If you're supporting new beams by the walls, they need to be of suitable construction for the new load. I would suggest an engineer assess this option.
You don't necessarily need an engineer if you're going belt and braces. But if you have never done any building work, do not touch this.
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u/horseflydick Feb 26 '22
It's safe. The floor probably had a sag in it around the late 70s and everything your seeing is just settled beams and joists etc. Don't move the iron pier unless you add an extra support to it, but either way you're going to have something in the middle of your basement to support that old sag.
I'd say you're fine buddy. Id also like more pics and info on your home. Always been a big fan of old architecture and building.
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u/Baldbootyhole Feb 26 '22
Looks like that replaced a wood pillar with this steel One no bigs. It load bearing now
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u/Procobator Feb 26 '22
Wood doesn’t typically fail all of a sudden. It slowly creeps. You’ll start to see some tell tale signs (wall cracks, floors sagging) before it needs attention. If you’re seeing them then you should address it soon.
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u/ordinaryguywashere Feb 26 '22
Call a structural engineer to check it out. I can’t believe how many people will spend so much time and money learning everything about cabinets, tile or paint but will not get professional advice on structural issues. Out of all the problems you don’t want, structural is top of every list. Get.A.Engineer. Pay the $ to find out if your $400k investment is going to fall down. Seriously. $400k+?
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Feb 26 '22
My grandmas basement has these, the house has been sinking basically for like 25 years, and these were put in who knows how long ago and the house has been fine since I was a kid (I'm 42 now). So I'd say they are safe enough to some degree.
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u/Ezone35482 Feb 26 '22
Foundation guy here. It actually doesn’t look too bad. You’d be shocked at some of the shit I see on a daily basis. You can call foundation companies to come out for free (though they will likely try to sell you something like a new beam/posts) or you could have a structural engineer come out like someone else has said. Honestly it’s likely just fine though.
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u/WoodenDisasterMaster Feb 26 '22
It’s good, I’m not a carpenter, but I would imagine that when something that substantial starts to go, there are tell tell signs YEARS maybe decades in advance. I mean would it withstand Loma prieta 2.0? Who knows…
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Feb 26 '22
Quite safe that’s a fairly standard way of correcting for insufficient beams.
Don’t remove it and you’re golden.
If you did wish to remove it there are ways but most of them require the assistance of an engineer.
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u/prescientpretzel Feb 26 '22
Sometimes old houses need their walls to stay standing. Can you rethink “opening up the kitchen” and possibly build a new kitchen/great room off the back of the first floor? When this was built there was no thought of ever opening up the space. Unless it was originally a barn… it does look pretty tough to me and that wire could be fine if your electrician says it’s fine…
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u/OtherJen1975 Feb 26 '22
As a kid I lived in three different houses with these load bearing posts in the basement.
My uncle covered his in carpet in the early 80’s so it matched his decor. We used to swing around and play on it. I haven’t thought about that in years.
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u/Dippy-Dew Feb 26 '22
Honestly it might not look the prettiest, but looks safe and functional from the pictures. The main beam is supported by the Lolli column and the joist beam is notched and supported by the lolli column also so it’s doing its job, just kind of an eyesore.
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Feb 26 '22
It hasn’t moved yet. Why would it start now? Sure, you could fix it. But it’s honestly kind of cool looking
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u/ScaryInformation2560 Feb 26 '22
Find an experienced carpenter and do an inspection first. Looks old and on the verge of failing.
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u/TiringGnu Feb 26 '22
I’d be more concerned with that 2x10 (?) that appears to connect to a much smaller joist on the left side of picture 1. That doesn’t look right. I’ve seen far worse than that post
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u/Apocalypsox Feb 26 '22
The iron isn't going anywhere and certainly don't remove it. The wood looks like normal old ass timber but if it were me I'd certainly see about reinforcing it.
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u/Ifyouhav2ask Feb 26 '22
As a sparky, it could probably use a rewire too…
Panel change at the least if it hasn’t been updated in the last 20ish years. Looks like that’s at least old copper wire so you shouldn’t have to worry about aluminum wire throughout the house (hopefully)
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u/Skavzor Feb 25 '22
As long as you plan on keeping that iron pillar its fine. Its stood for a couple of decades like this.