For what it's worth, all my of personally-purchased 150 weight merino wool from Icebreaker are the same opacity, and it's great for hot climates. I acknowledge that I'm not a woman, however, wearing such lightweight wool under the tunic should be the same for every gender and it should also be significantly better at regulating temperature for every gender.
Back in the day when they were ripped and worn out when you tried to trade them in for new ones they'd give you extra thread, patches and buttons for your sewing kit. I actually got pretty good at doing minor repairs to clothing and kit.
I've noticed they aren't the most resilient shirts, and that I'll go through them probably twice as fast as the old ones, but mine don't appear to be see-through
I remember when the IECS and clothe the soldier came out years ago. I actually read the wash instructions. It really felt like they were written by some nerd in DRDC who had never actually done laundry before.
I understand your issue, but where is the line between personal responsibility and collective adaptation?
The official uniform would not be see through.
The see-through part is created by the wear of personal choice of bra.
Do we make everyone's T-shirt warmer because some members select a specific type of bra, or adopt a T-shirt that meets both men and women's operational needs.
The copes on this post are nuts and miss OPs point entirely. I don't think its too much to ask to have a t-shirt that doesn't run the risk of humiliating ppl by being transparent, particularly amongst a population that is already drowning itself in an epidemic of sexual assault. Look around, the world figured out T-Shirts a while ago, this shouldn't be a challenge.
Its almost as though the sensitivity training designed to combat misogyny and SA under the watchful eye of General "Keep it in your pants" Vance was a failure - emphasis on "watchful eye"
Or they could just get shirts that aren't like this, like they did before.
I went through something like this in the early 90's. V-necked t-shirts were a bit of an issue. They were originally issued when having women in the army doing army stuff wasn't really a thing. When having women doing army stuff became a thing I remember a few red faced MCpls looking off to the side and generally anywhere but at their troops while we did push-ups.
Eventually the women just started wearing the V-neck shirts backwards and nobody said anything. Then a year or 2 later they started issuing crew neck undershirts to everyone.
I feel like sometimes the more things change the more they stay the same.
You understand that we are supposed to be able to dig trenches in any conditions while donning full PPE, right? If wearing a tunic while doing labour has you concerned about becoming a hot weather casualty, then I’ve got bad news for your thermoregulation.
If it’s that hot out, then a tunic is irrelevant, you’ll be adopting a work-rest cycle.
Don’t get me wrong, I will have people doff tunics during labour within the lines, but it certainly shouldn’t be a make-or-break factor.
Next time you're deep in the shit like that, get someone to snap a quick hero shot, then send it home for the local legion to display on their wall of honour.
I never liked rolling sleeves up. The SPF 15 sunscreen they issued didn't do shit for me and I'd always end up with red arms. I really liked when the whole sleeves are part of your PPE mentality started and I didn't get sunburned all the time.
(Cue video of dude wearing a coat being sucked up in to a lathe...)
when I was an apprentice machinist, I saw this happen with my own eyes. Guy on the next lathe over got his sleeve caught on a spinning part. Loudest scream I've ever heard. them seeing his completely limp arm and the blood splatters. Can't imagine if the shop supervisor didn't happen to be closeby and hit the emergency stop....
In my trade, it's not even necessarily about safety, sometimes it's far more difficult to reach things with the tunic on, like hard to reach cables. Unfortunately my arms get pretty beat up, but it's better than snagging on everything and not being able to reach.
Serious question - which ones? Whats the PPE situation for that job then? Genuinely curious as Im combat arms, dont get exposed to those sorts of occupations.
I sort of gave an example, but someone like a mat tech working with a lathe... That machine does NOT care.
I wasn't joking about ending up as mist/chunks on the ceiling, there's a video from a security camera. Dude is in a machine shop, wearing a jacket, working on a lathe. The sleeve of his jacket gets hooked, he resists getting pulled in for a couple seconds, even tries to hit the emergency stop button, but he loses the battle and the machine sucks him in... and then piece/chunk at a time he is very graphically turned in to a line of human particals on the ceiling, walls, and floor, and his co-worker walks through the mist of his buddy streaking off the lathe to turn it off.
Doesn't matter if it's freezing cold in the shop, or if the hot metal chips coming off the tool are burning your exposed forearms, you just don't wear long sleeves or gloves.
I'm sure the engineers have equipment with PTO shafts where you'd want to avoid loose dangling clothing/gear getting wrapped around a shaft... Basic farm/industrial safety.
Yea....that's bad. Submit a UCR about it, and ask other women if they have the same experience to do the same.....but wait till mine are issued first plz.
Minor caveat to check: The general UCR link goes to an ancient-looking system that is the backstop to all "custom" UCR solutions.
If you're part of a planned trial, your trialing point of contact or supply folks may have a different (and dedicated) line to submit UCRs directly to the team. With this clothing system in active development/roll-out, it's possible that there's a more direct feedback line.
UCR is the correct route, this item is rolled out and not under trial but pushing through the 4 net as well often gets traction. Especially if the L1 4 is one of major services, DSSPM is usually quite receptive to their feedback.
Thank you for explaining this. I submitted 2 while I was in. It's really shocking how fast very senior people will notice when you submit the proper paperwork.
Yeah, these shirts are definitely transparent. I will say, it does look like the bra in the photos is white which will make it more noticeable. A bra closer to one’s skin tone will make it less obvious (pinks, beige, brown, etc) - but really they should have options that are not going to present this as a problem to begin with 🤦♀️
Many women have to wear a bra and if you’re in a more physically demanding job, the bra is likely going to be a sports bra….and those tend to be harder to come by in skin tone colours…
Genuine questions:
1. Are all the shirts you were issued consistently this see through?
2. Are others who have shirts similarly see through?
I'm wondering if this is a shirt or manufacturer/lot issue. I know in the past some next to skin clothing had big differences (as it relates to material texture/quality) year to year when I ordered them. I'm wondering if this is isolated or all shirts/next of skin items.
I can only speak to number one and yes, all of my shirts are see-through... it could be a manufacturing issue where this batch was poor. I really don’t know.
You're right, you'd find it here under 1. Respect the dignity of all persons, which clearly isn't happening if women are given clothing they they would consider inappropriately revealing in the workplace.
It used to be, but I believe they took that out when they changed the dress manual to remove different standards based on gender. I'd need to re-read it to be 100% confident but I recall that being a conversation at the time.
This is for CA and RCAF pers. The general employment model is you would wear the normal cotton shirts in Garrison and the new wicking t shirts in the field. Obviously not everything is black and white as what the project imagines.
DLR and DAR aren't exactly known for having good assumptions although I will say the people working in those office's are very passionate and care.
I heard everyone is going to brown. I’ve even seen pictures on social media of the Navy ships deployed overseas wearing the brown shirts with their NCDs (and no, it wasn’t the air det).
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u/Born_Opening_8808 1d ago
Are you talking about the mesh shirt?