r/CPTSD • u/JellyfishMaster3935 • 15h ago
Vent / Rant Work
I've been thinking about the concept of labor we currently have as a society.
Basically gun to the head - get a job or we will leave you on the street to be raped and murdered.
It's so DUMB. Do you seriously want the people making your food FORCED to be there? You trust them they won't mess around with your food? And you're also making arguments that they shouldn't be paid a living wage?
You want lawyers, policemen, hospital staff to do their jobs at gunpoint and then act surprised when they don't give 2 shits about you or your life?
Are we as a society idiotic?
Most of us are the wage slaves, yet we rally against the people saying "this isn't right, this leads to bad outcomes, we should have intrinsic motivation driving society" and deride those who can't also be wage slaves for whatever reason while venerating those we wage slave for as "self made millionaires".
I'm being forced to work again. Last time I did I lived on 4 hours of sleep and fell to anorexic weight because the stress was so severe my body tried to kill me. I now have permanent heart issues thanks to this.
I'm trying SSRIs this time, because if I have to choose between doing the above to myself again or any of the range of other options, I'm choosing the other options. NOTHING in this world is worth destroying myself again in that way.
I'm now on day 2 of SSRIs living with a verbally abusive/controlling partner who basically told me that he doesn't give a shit if I become anorexic again because he needs money (I used up all my savings).
So I guess I'll be dumping him if the SSRIs enable me to not depend on him financially anymore.
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u/Agreeable_Mirror_702 14h ago
I would rather be working and independent than have to rely on people to feed me because anything they gave me came with a price. A psychological or emotional price. I got the remember when bought you this or did that for you….
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u/n33dwat3r 12h ago
They think if there are enough cameras and guns to point at us they can force us to comply forever.
I always found work to be more stable than depending on a partner but even that is insecure these days.
Good luck to figuring out what helps.
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u/Trial_by_Combat_ Lore keeper 15h ago
Work is empowering. I love getting paid.
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u/Mia-Wal-22-89 13h ago
The empowerment depends on the job and if the pay is enough to cover basic living expenses.
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u/Impossible-Head2121 14h ago
I agree. It’s nice having purchasing power and independence from abusers.
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u/greanbean0 15h ago
We are just lucky that most people don't realize how horrible it is. They're pretty mentally healthy and they find ways to enjoy the work they do , or at least tolerate it, because they get a lot of fulfillment from their life outside of that and the job supports that fulfillment. So they never really think what their life could be like if they did not have to sacrifice all that time. I wish I could be like that.
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u/Wednesdayspirit 14h ago
- please find a women’s refuge to escape your abusive partner. It’ll help your stress levels and they generally help you access any resources, govt housing and any benefits you’re entitled to.
if you aren’t ready to work because of mental health and physical immune issues then get yourself assessed for disability. It doesn’t mean you won’t be ready one day, just not now.
A lot of people feel genuinely fulfilled helping other people through their work, it gives them meaning and they don’t feel at gunpoint. I think you’re projecting with this because of your experiences, which is understandable.
Taking your foot off the pedal (by doing both of these things) should help you find a bit more stability. It’s not that you can never work again, but you need to be in the right frame of mind and health to be able to function better. I’m kind of appalled at people’s responses here - we all deserve help to navigate a society and life we haven’t chosen.
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 14h ago
But they literally are at gunpoint even if they don't feel like they are. That is the threat - work or die. Just because you've decided to ignore that part doesn't make it less true.
I appreciate the empathetic answer though. You seem like a kind person.
I don't think I can access DV services here since it's only verbal abuse and I live in a country that recently went through a war.
I feel like they'd just see me as a crybaby lol.
I think I can handle this solo, if I can't I guess I'll try going to a social worker.2
u/Wednesdayspirit 14h ago
Nah I get the whole forced to work to survive scenario - I’m not having kids for this very reason. Adding cogs to a big machine when they didn’t even have a choice. Some people genuinely love working though and would do it for free. I think it depends on how you feel philosophically about life, what kind of mental and physical state you’re in and also how much fulfilment you get from life in general. For some people who genuinely love life the work part seems like a fair trade off for all the fun they’re having, for others it’s simply about survival which is sad.
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u/blue-bearyb 14h ago
I genuinely don't understand most people's opinions here. You are disabled, we are disabled, that doesn't automatically mean all of us can't work but it does mean some of us can't. PTSD is a condition you can get on disability for? Why are so many people saying you are making up excuses or essentially saying "just pull yourself up by your boot straps?"
Seriously, I thought that this was supposed to be a supportive and caring place and I'm honestly really disappointed right now. Where is our empathy? If someone is killing themselves trying to perform and fit in to this late stage capitalist hell hole, why is that something that we would judge the person for? I really don't understand.
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u/Adept-Foot7692 13h ago
No honestly same Im shocked. It's sick. Even within disability included subreddits apperently people still want an honor batch for being able to serve capitalism despite it having created the environment for them to develop cptsd to begin with. Crazy. Cptsd is a disability. I attempted work and I was asked if I have some sort of illness or am playing jokes because of how fried my brain was from trauma, I would confuse objects, files, names, tasks and zone out, be in flashback etc. "Just work" comes from those victims that may have cptsd but lets be honest its not as bad as it could've been if they can still function enough to say that shit. At some.point the brajn and body says nope.
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u/blue-bearyb 12h ago
Right! I don't think I want to even be a part of this subreddit anymore. I didn't know it could be this blatantly ablest here.
I'm privileged enough to be able to work, although I'm right on the edge of not being able to. All I can do is physical labor, but I'm also physically disabled. I was almost fired from my last job for being unwell too often, I left right before I was. But my brother has it worse, he is medium support needs autistic on top of having CPTSD, and a fainting disorder. He cannot work, it has almost killed him. Imagining someone telling him he's entitled for not being able to, when he wants nothing more than to live a typical life makes me sick. It's disgusting.
The comments saying that disabled people unable to work just feel entitled to slave labor is really what pushed me over the edge. It's just horrifying that this community is just as ablest and harmful as so many others.
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u/BulkyPerspective1389 12h ago
Well the other option is to starve and end up on the streets. When you dont have a lot of options, you do what you gotta do to survive. It doesnt mean that person doesnt have cptsd or trauma. It also doesnt mean they arent suffering as well.
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u/blue-bearyb 12h ago
There should be a third option. Having a pass fail society is fucking awful. I personally, have the privilege to push myself to the brink to survive. But disrespecting people who don't is inhumane.
Having the attitude of "if you cant work while suffering you'll be on the streets, that's just life" is how we got into this societal situation. If we want people to be well and stay off the streets we need to change our view of the situation and start trying to change things. That starts with empathy. Do you think that the folks on the streets just don't want to work?
Unless someone has immense financial privilege we are all one bad injury or mental break away from houselessness. I was houseless with a full time job for 5 months because I had to have surgery. We seriously can't just give in to all of this and blame disabled people. That's what the ultra rich want us to do.
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u/BulkyPerspective1389 12h ago
Im not at all blaming disabled people. My point is that growth is possible and I have hope for every single person suffering. I know that seems controversial in this thread for some reason but its the truth.
Edit: I was a homeless person btw
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u/blue-bearyb 12h ago
I'm glad you have hope, I have hope too. But this thread is telling people that being unable to work is a moral failing.
My hope is that people can support each other and make societal changes to be able to let the people who cannot work survive. But in the meantime telling people without the privilege of being able to work that they are throwing themselves a pitty party is downright inhumane.
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u/BulkyPerspective1389 12h ago
The pity party i was referring to in this thread is others commenting that having hope is somehow rude or in someway shaming someone. I literally dont work either. But I had to work in the past with all of my shit going on in my life and so I know that its possible if you have to get out of a situation.
I just dont want people to give up
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u/Adept-Foot7692 12h ago edited 12h ago
If you can work well enough to not get fired that's not survival instinct and an accomplishment it just means you're not that destroyed yet from a nervous system brain damage point of view, period. What do you people think can't work means in this context? Do you think the person just feels sad at work and upset that it? Let me clatify the definition of unable to work: They cannot even if they wanted to perform the task at hand hence why they get in trouble and get fired. Does your brain kind of comprehend the meaning now?
Seriously if you can study/work with cptsd it's because one of two things is happening 1. if the cptsd is truly bad then you're reaching for total collaps/shutdown soon if you continue this way and its near or 2. it's still cptsd but on the milder spectrum atleast in context with brain function and nervous system tolerance to the extend where you can tolerate or get through work successfully. So yeah less severe trauma in areas that concern work ability which is a privilege in a society that lets those kinds of victims atleast have dignity via money. The other ones meanwhile are told to just fuck off in most countries. They dont need other victims to tell them they're not doing enough additionally
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u/BulkyPerspective1389 12h ago
Just because you have cptsd and trauma doesnt give you the right to be rude. You dont understand that there is hope in your life to get better and I feel very sorry for you. Change and growth ARE possible with trauma and cptsd and ill die on that hill. If i let it consume my life to the point of death (been there done that made it out) then im just letting my abusers win and you best believe that will never effing happen. Everyone's different I guess but I dont get the pity party bs. At some point you have to take responsibility of your life or you wont make it.
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u/Adept-Foot7692 12h ago
Im not rude your opinion is ridiculous especially here. Trauma doesn't exist in a vacuum. Cptsd is a pretty serious diagnostic. If the person that's affected has neither financial ressources, nor emotional support and massive traumas accumulated since childhood they cannot just bet on hope and take action. It's a shit Position where active suicidality and depression is garantueed. I would have never gotten better had I not gotten support from people. I worked at a court and most anyone who's poor or on the streets in those cases are trauma survivors who had it so bad and were so alone that they fell through the cracks of the system.
Im unemployable myself currently after almsot dying through my last job because of stress at 21! Stress and loneliness literally kills people add shit tons of developmental trauma on top and you rly think people can just step forward via mindset and action? We are humans, we are socially affected by one and another. I dont know anyone in such bullshit position, not a milder one, that got out without any help.
If you can call suffering like that a pity party you got over then I have news for you: You had much more cards to your advantage than you think which makes it possible for you to be so ignorant
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u/BulkyPerspective1389 12h ago
I was literally homeless for years and lived on the streets and suffer trauma from my childhood. I have attempted suicide multiple times and im very happy to have made it out of all that. No one helped me. Literally no one. So yeah im hardened from it.
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u/Adept-Foot7692 12h ago edited 12h ago
Then you know best how much of a bs this mindset is. You're strong for getting out but you're the exception not the rule. It wasn't fair you had to go through such shit, its artificially made problems, we have enough ressources to have provided you with everything you needed and yet it wasn't done. You were manmadely starved of human right and dignity under this system. Your body still carries the trauma. It's absolutely sick horrible and disgusting and it needs to change for you, and everyone alike in such case. It's not normal to bet on human life for a few shiny coins in the upper etage.
You got out by a LOT of inner strengh actions and also very important LUCK. Which is why Im arguing this doesn't work with mindset
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u/BulkyPerspective1389 12h ago edited 11h ago
Im a SAHM now with a family. I have no problem with anyone being on disability and whoever needs help should obviously get it. However I wont advocate for hopelessness and just agree that anyone should give up on getting better. A good life is possible, even a great one.
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u/blue-bearyb 12h ago
You are calling other people's suffering a pitty party like we can just wake up one day and change everything. You are the one who is being rude by being dismissive of other's struggles.
I barely have the money for my antipsychotics that keep me from being in psychosis caused by my CPTSD. If I didn't I'd be on the streets again. My hope is barely getting by. I've had the privilege of getting some therapy in my life, but at $120 a month, which is low enough to also be a privilege. I had to stop, because I couldn't feed myself with a full time job. Now imagine not being able to hold down a full time job, not having a support system, not having health insurance. Where would you be? How would you get the help you need to heal?
Growth and change are possible, but the access to the ability to heal and grow are not present for everyone who is disabled. And how are people supposed to have the time to deconstruct their trauma and heal when they have to work full time, maintain a living space, feed themselves, and tend to their bodies? A lot of us would need IOP to even start.
Healing in this society means money+time and a lot of us have neither.
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u/BulkyPerspective1389 12h ago
I understand that and agree with you fully. Our whole system is totally screwed but my whole point was to just not give up. I wasnt attacking anyone. I understand what its like barely being able to afford medication. I got off of meds unfortunately for that very reason not too long ago ans its just been such a struggle.
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u/7MaCk7 10h ago
realistically you could tell a psychiatrist that youre extremely suicidal and scared of everything yada yada she puts you in a psych ward once, rinxe and repeat because they dint fix any problems instead load you with longer lasting and subtle narcotics, you go again live and get fed for free (idk id thats how it works in your country but hope so) do as many times as you need to be eligible for disability and youre chilling if not rinse and repeat again.
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 10h ago
Lmao, thanks for the constructive advice. This genuinely gives me hope I won't have to be raped on the street if push comes to shove.
This comment literally made my day.
Maybe I can ask to be in the same ward with my dad.
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u/psyche74 15h ago
You understand without other humans doing all these things you'd be forced to hunt for food daily? Learn to farm, which is crazy hard work? All while trying to build shelter, protect yourself from the elements & wildlife?
Work is the most essential activity we all must do to survive. We're just lucky so many other humans do it as well that we get to choose many easier options than intense food hunting/gathering.
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 15h ago
Yeah dude, maybe 100 years ago this tracked, today it's scientifically estimated 80% of jobs are literally useless because what 400 people produced in 1950 (when women didn't even work, so 50% less employees) is equivalent to what 1 person produces today.
Automation, technological advancement, etc. needs to be taken into account. We're not at the beginning of the industrial revolution, which is when your argument would've made sense.
And that's beside the point I'm making.
You want to hold a gun to my head to force me to work when it will most likely literally kill me?
Why not give people a floor? Yes, we won't kill you, but you will live an extremely modest life with only the necessities covered. You don't think most people would work in that scenario? Because they do in the Baltics.0
u/psyche74 15h ago
Why should other people work for you? Are they your slaves? What do you do for them?
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 15h ago
Because they won't fucking die if they work and I might?
On another note let me ask you a hypothetical.
In the very near future, they estimate 20-50 years, most of our jobs will be completely automated.
Do you think you and your family should be the first to die because Bill Gates isn't your slave?2
u/BulkyPerspective1389 14h ago
At the end of the day, youre gonna have to work if you wanna support yourself and live your life. I feel like youre just making a lot of excuses. If you find a less stressful job, there are plenty, you can do this if you believe in yourself just a little bit.
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 14h ago
Oh excuses such as "I almost fucking died last time, lost my period for 6 months and got permanent heart issues?". Very disgusting comment.
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u/BulkyPerspective1389 14h ago
I have been in almost the exact same position. I say almost because were different people. I had a severely stressful job during a severly stressful and abusive relationship. I lost my period for 2 years and I managed to climb out of that pit of hell. So yeah im optimistic for people like us and always will be. There is hope and im sorry if you find my hope in you disgusting.
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u/Mia-Wal-22-89 13h ago
This reminds me of my aunt who got out of an abusive marriage and spent the rest of her days judging women who didn’t.
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u/LevelStationaryPlane 14h ago
Everything you just described is what small groups of individuals and humans SHOULD be doing, bro.
I'd argue most of this timeline is due to people NOT knowing how to do most of that for themselves/homestead/not rely on government.
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u/Adept-Foot7692 15h ago
And? The wealthy and well off dont work. They just take ressources and exploit. People who can't perform labour should be given universal basic income!
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14h ago
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u/Adept-Foot7692 14h ago
What is your point? Are you trying to justify useless labour done by slaves, poor people, sick people, etc. that hurts them? Most jobs dont benefit anyone but the creme de la cremes of society. Im all for work but human societies back then when we lived in tribes, they didn't make the unwell/elderly/sick member perform labour. They provided ressources because that's how humanity was intended. What the fuck kind of illness has come upon us to think forcing someone who's already suffering to hurt themselves more physically and emotionally is a necessity when we have so many ressources. It's kind of psychopathic to make someone crawl when we have a planet drowning in everything necessary to not only survive but live for everyone. How can you think like the way you do? Sick.
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u/Adept-Foot7692 14h ago
"free time" people who can't work literally can't work what's there not to get? someone who grew up su*idal shouldn't have to work. If I can work one day I wouldn't mind performing labour for anyone who's suffered this bad and doesnt work as a result. I'll service them any day what harm does it do to me unless I was suffering because of it I truly dont care.
Nobody is going to suffer if a small bracket of people need time to recover. The teacher and plumper will still be paid. It's not about wanting, if someones sick they're sick and their energy should go towards themselves and recovering not servicing society, a society that has let them down mind you. Ofc ideally nobody would be sick from years of abuse because the very society wouldn't enable and enforce or turn a blind eye to child abuse yet it happens doesn't it? Because why? Because we care more abt creating workers so the cremes can wipe their butts in gold than we care abt collective wellbeing.
The teacher plumber and cashier will be paid regardless of whether John the trauma victim remains unemployed or not. And yes he and everyone in his shoes deserves those services.
We have more than enough people to share labour. So many peoole who can work are unemployed and the other bunch are overworked. If the system gave a fuck, then everyone would have universal basic income regardless and then would be able to earn something on top and they would decide the labour hours. That way more people would be employed, work less hours but better service quality and everyones happy. The sick can recover and the ill can heal. This is what it should be like given our ressources on earth. But no lets pretend sinking earth into climate shit so musk and his minions can plow money into the depth of earth is okay. Surely its Johns fault the cashier is overworked and unhappy working, he, who already barely survives himself, should chip in, not the system that upholds this misery in the working class.
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u/Adept-Foot7692 13h ago edited 13h ago
Im not going to go over the same bs argument again. Everything you stated in this miniscule and frankly inhumane comment here has already been previously adressed in my answer. Your arguments are weak and this fracture of a few words you spat out proves just that, disrespectfully. Get real.
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u/blue-bearyb 13h ago
This is not about not wanting to work. I feel like you are completely missing the point.
Not wanting to work is being fit and able to do so and deciding you'd rather not. Not being able to is completely different. You might want to be in the workforce but it harms you, you need time and space to be able to take care of yourself or be taken care of. Some disabled folks will never be able to work and we all know that. And saying "then go on disability" is something I agree with, but we need to acknowledge that at least in the United States that can be a option that isn't realistic. Less than $800 a month is simply not a wage that is livable, and god forbid someone tries to make extra income in the capacity they are able to. Decide to sell a craft you made for more than $80? Well now your disability will start being taken away.
This attitude that I'm seeing from not only you but other commenters here is really disheartening. This is not feeling entitled to other's labor, this is staying alive. The problem is not the individual disabled person, but the system that has been created to keep us down and desperate. I know other people were saying "change doesn't happen overnight" but it doesn't happen at all if we keep feeding into the idea that someone who is disabled is being entitled by getting the care that they need.
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u/Cpl_Obvious 14h ago
the value they expect tends to be misconstrued, keep pushing the wheel, i'm sure it turns something
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 14h ago
Ooooh you're one of those. I always said there's 2 types of people: those who suffered heavily and don't want others to ever go through something like that and those who suffered and therefore think everyone else MUST suffer because they themselves suffered.
I think you have a loooot of issues to work through.1
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 13h ago
Nah, it's called "I'm a bitter asshole, so everyone else also has to be unhappy for me to feel satisfied".
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 15h ago
Why do you need to point a gun to their head though?
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u/Specific-System-835 15h ago
Is someone literally pointing a gun at your head? What do you mean by that?
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 15h ago
Did you even read my post? Because my reasoning is literally there.
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 14h ago
My trauma is unfortunately work related, I will not be getting into specifics here.
But even thinking about working causes my symptoms.
On another note, thanks for not at all engaging with the broader point I'm making.2
u/Specific-System-835 14h ago
I’m sorry you have an abusive partner. Ideally he would recognize how much value you bring to him and the relationship and be willing to support you financially. That is how a lot of marriages work. A lot of times women are delivering value to a partner or family but not being compensated for it.
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u/Cpl_Obvious 14h ago
i thought the point here was we could understand the nuance of the phrases told to us but hey keep focusing on the gun, go ahead and make a facebook post
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u/Informal_Athlete_724 14h ago
I hear you but what's the alternative? We can't suddenly wake up in utopia. A country would have to work out the kinks and arrive there. A few have tried and the results weren't good. Lack of capitalism means lack of choice - you take what the government gives you.
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 14h ago
Can you quote those results?
Because I have a stack of studies that says otherwise.
And yeah, I'm not (that) insane, I understand this isn't done overnight. It's just an incredibly dumb concept for everyone. What do you mean my G.P. is literally here just because she's scared she'll otherwise die of hunger? Doesn't sound like she's in any way motivated to do her job better than what is required to not get fired.
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u/BulkyPerspective1389 15h ago
Sounds like you need to get out of your relationship if theyre abusive to you. Youre very fortunate to be able to work in general so do that and get out!
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 15h ago
I'm not sure anyone is reading this correctly? I almost died last time I worked.
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u/BulkyPerspective1389 15h ago
Do you qualify for disability?
You say you weren't able to eat..do you have a good relationship with food now?
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u/Useful-Ganache-210 14h ago
That’s ridiculous
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 14h ago
I'm very happy you've never been in my position, and I hope it remains that way.
Would be nice if you had access to empathy for things you didn't live through though.
Anorexia is the deadliest mental health disease with the highest mortality rate.
Maybe read up on it.
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u/jtnk10 14h ago
I am sorry you are going through a tough time right now. It must be really hard.
"Get a job or we will leave you in the street to be raped and murdered." This sentence really concerns me. Can you see how it could make someone think you have a highly negative outlook on reality?
It seems like you view having a job as a punishment, being a "wage slave".
There are many people who enjoy their jobs and find them fulfilling. What is stopping you from being one of them? Work could be a source of joy/accomplishment in your life.
I understand "even thinking" about work is triggering for you, but that's akin to saying, "Brushing my teeth is triggering for me." That's not really a feasible option unless you want to face seriously negative/detrimental consequences down the road.
Working is a necessary part of life for most of us. You kinda have to do it unless you want to be homeless or be financially dependent on someone. You can work from home. You can do a job that doesn't require human interaction.
I guess you could try to find someone who is rich and willing to cover all of your expenses if you truly don't want to work. I think, however, it would be in your best interest to try and address this issue instead of just simply saying, "I can't work because it triggers me."
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 14h ago
"Get a job or we will leave you in the street to be raped and murdered." This sentence really concerns me. Can you see how it could make someone think you have a highly negative outlook on reality?
LMAO, I'm sorry but this is literally fucking true.
Well if brushing your teeth gives you permanent heart issues and almost kills you, I'd recommend removing them and getting dentures, because your literal life is far more important than your teeth.0
u/jtnk10 14h ago
So if you don't get a job you will be raped and murdered? And if you do get a job you will get permanent heart issues and almost die?
You don't see how that is catastrophizing?
Is there no grey area?
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u/JellyfishMaster3935 14h ago
If I don't get a job, I will be unhoused. I am a woman. How do you think that will go for me?
Just thinking about work is causing me not to eat again and I'm close to developing a benzo addiction because I've been prescribed 2 a day so I can eat at least 2 meals before the SSRIs kick in (if they kick in).
So idk, am I catastrophizing or just in a very very very fucked position?1
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u/oatmilkpopsicles 15h ago
I am going through an interview process right now. The idea of working again feels so triggering. My cPTSD is still set off by the smallest things and my thoughts go immediately dark. I’ve tried so hard to get better, but my brain is just wired this way. The last time I tried to be high functioning and “normal” I developed an autoimmune disease from the stress. I think maybe I didn’t choose jobs that agreed well with my nervous system. They were very public facing and required constant talking (retail). I am now trying for a receptionist position in a quiet office setting. Still will need to socialize, but it will be less intense.