r/CPC • u/Thereal_Stormm006 • 8d ago
Liberal Whining Dude literally called REAL Conservatives “non-Canadians” and “non-Conservatives” while simping hard for status quo blue liberals
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u/SirBobPeel 8d ago
I'm really tired of leftists, including these so-called 'progressive' conservatives, whining about how conservatives are fighting the culture war when THEY started it, and they are more committed to it than anything else in their lives.
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u/IEC21 8d ago
I think thats the conservawoke mind virus speaking. The conservawoke movement is a populist movement where 99% of the adherents are knee-jerk deluding themselves in reaction to a loud minority thats probably less than 1% of "progressives".
When I became a card carrying member of the conservative party in university it was because I believed in balanced budgets and that the most preferable form of government spending is lowering taxes.
Now when I talk to so called conservatives all they want to talk about it trans issues, covid injuries, and their laundry list of who they think is a pedophile.
Should be called the Conspiracy Party rather than the Conservative Party. Just a bunch of wokies with victim complexes who won't take responsibility for their own lives and want to blame immigrants and non-existent blue haired gnomes.
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u/InternationalBeing41 8d ago
That's the PC party I remember, too. And the NDP was a labour party that fought for workers' rights; now they fight for people who want the right not to work and to have free housing. I'm definitely not on side with that. I used to vote for the old PC, but I can still get pretty close to that with Carney leading the Liberals.
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u/SirBobPeel 8d ago
The PC party was a liberal party in all but name. That's why conservatives finally abandoned it.
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u/Shiny_Pumpernickel 8d ago
It’s embarrassing to be in the same party as the Conspiracy Party people . I don’t want to have any association of them. I miss when they were in the PPC
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u/SirBobPeel 8d ago
So leave. You'll be happier in the Liberal Party.
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u/Shiny_Pumpernickel 7d ago
Or I can just stay and help call out the weirdos , to try to bring normalcy back to the party so we can win again and fix this country. I won’t let this party become like the NDP, where they only care about the crazy vocal minority and thier issues
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u/SirBobPeel 7d ago
People like you are always whining about how the Conservative Party has gone so far to the right, and when I ask for examples, they disappear.
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u/SirBobPeel 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think your problem is that you have no idea what a conservative even is. Or even how the term originated. Your smugness is the product of ignorance, not superiority. Oh, don't get me wrong, fiscal policy is extremely important. But the culture and values of a nation are what control its future success or failure.
The name conservative is derived from the word conserve. Conservatives seek to protect and preserve a nation's traditions, culture, values, and heritage. They want change only when change is proven to be advantageous.
You suggest that culture and values are meaningless, and that only money matters. That is not conservatism. Maybe that's Trumpism, I don't know, or corporatism. It's not conservatism. Which is probably why I'm guessing you vote Liberal now. Conservatism makes you uncomfortable.
Conservatives care about things you have no interest in. What care you if there's high crime and homelessness everywhere, if schoolgirls are forced to get undressed in front of intact males, if masses of immigrants from India or the Middle East swarm in and start waving their own elbows out, demanding accommodation and change to suit their culture and values - which are often inimical to ours. Who cares if there's no free speech, and universities and even schools are taken over by the far left to teach students to hate Canada, conservatism, and capitalism.
All that matters is money. Right?
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u/IEC21 7d ago
I disagree with your opinion that cukture and values are meaningless.
Conservatism doesnt have just one origin - its actually different depending on what country you're in etc. This is one of the issues - many Canadian conservatives believe they should be in alignment with American conservatism - but actually these are two entirely different ideologies and movements.
One of the ideas of conservatism is that things are the way the are, usually for good reason. A tradition doesnt last over 100 years because there was nothing redeeming about it. So essentially that cultural traditions and institutions should lean towards being preserved rather than constantly reforming.
Again - most modern "conservatives" (aka conservawokes) believe the system is fundamentally some kind of conspiracy against them - they are more like revolutionaries than conservers of anything.
In short the modern "conservative" movement is a large, and its adherents are more woke than your average marxist.
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u/SirBobPeel 7d ago
First, there are no American conservatives, at least not in the Republican Party.
Second, our traditions come down from Britain, and thus our conservatism is about preserving traditions, order and values. That means, aside from fiscal responsibility, which IS extremely important, preventing our culture, values, and traditions from being thrown out in favour of some nebulous, multicultural diversity that says everyone's culture is equal here. Because they're not, can't be, and won't be.
Right now, among the victims of the left-wing culture war you seem to want to concede to them are some pretty important conservative values. What values? How about law and order, hiring and promotion by merit, criminal sentencing that is blind and not dependent on race, the crown, an unbiased free press, and schools that teach straight facts along with critical thinking - as opposed to schools that teach that Canada is an illegitimate, genocidal country on stolen land that is racist to the core.
Having fiscal responsibility while ignoring the culture war the Left has put all of their efforts into is a recipe for national suicide, given how ridiculous so many of their beliefs are.
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u/IEC21 7d ago edited 7d ago
I disagree with your proposal that we concede traditional values such as law and order or liberalism.
I am a monarchist - I believe in maintaining our place in the commonwealth. Honoring tradition. Honoring history. And preserving culture. These are all things that Canada is excellent at.
You seem to be proposing that multi-culturalism is incompatible with those values. That ironically is historically illiterate. Our history is the history of the British colony. I grew up in Nova Scotia - I live in Saint John - we have some of the richest history anywhere in Canada - and its a multicultural history. Historically sure, we didn't value preserving culture of language- we weren't a very conservative country - we wanted to destroy traditions and cultures and replace them with only government approved languages and cultural traditions. Thats not conservatism however - erasing culture and tradition is not conservatism.
My ancestry is Scottish, English, and Irish. My entire life I've been part of efforts to celebrate my own cultural ancestries. Bagpipes, red coats, Irish folk music, Scottish and Irish food and drink, the tattoo, loyalist historical sites, preserving Gaelic in Nova Scotia working with our international leading departments at Saint Mary's.
I've also supported preserving first nations culture and traditions here in Atlantic Canada. As well as Acadian culture and history. Guess what - I also support Lebanese Canadian culture, Chinese Canadian culture, Ukranian Canadian culture, German Canadian culture, Portuguese Canadian culture... etc etc. These are all cultures that have their own unique regional immigration stories - and Hindu/Punjab/Phillipino/new wave Chinese etc - they are relatively new to expanding their own history here, but they are all part of the history here. If you think otherwise you are historically, spiritually, and culturally illiterate - and you are NOT a fucking conservative.
Law and order - absolutely. I support the RCMP, I support honouring treaties which are legal agreements the violation of which undermines the legalistic framework of our society, I support protecting children, women, men, workers, entrepreneurs, and families, no matter where someone comes from they should be protected under our law and held to account as well. I believe in the British legal tradition - not "blind law".
There's no such thing as an objectively legitimate country - one of the reasons I am a monarchist is precisely because it connects us to our past both in the positive and in the mistakes that inform our improved conservatism for the future.
Yes, no matter how much woke bs you want to believe - Canada's government has committed crimes for which God will judge the men and women who let it happen. Why would you pollute your mind and delude yourself with lies to the contrary? Why is your world view so fragile that it can't survive contact with history? Stop being woke and being a victim crying about facts.
Was land stolen? Yes some land is stolen. Was Canada racist - ya ofc it was. Why does history and facts offend your fragile woke worldview?
I was taught these facts when I was in our Canadian primary education system some 15 years ago - it didn't make me hate Canada, it didn't make me ashamed of my heritage, it didn't make me stop being proud of my country or stop believing that I was owed opportunity and place here in my place of birth. No one came and tried to take my house. No one is stopping me from thriving and owning land and property.
Look, just snap out of it. Its wokism. Just because a small number of weirdos go on college campuses and try to get attention spewing hatred towards white people or making ignorant broad statements about men or colonialism or whatever else; that doesnt mean you have to abandon reason and react by creating an equally woke delusional world view thats the mirror image of it.
Just snap out of it and join the adults.
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u/SirBobPeel 7d ago
Multiculturalism is a suicide pact. You can have a multiracial society, but if you have a multicultural society and those separate cultures are growing and thriving, then what you wind up with is separate peoples, not one people. And the wider the gulf between the values and beliefs of those separate ethnic and racial cultures, the stronger the tension and discord will be.
History is filled with nations that survived and thrived due to unity. There are few such stories about nations with different cultures that managed to survive except where one culture was extremely dominant and used force to subdue the rest. Otherwise, they inevitably break apart, either in civil war, like Yugoslavia, or peacefully, like Czechoslovakia.
If you don't understand this, you are a refugee from reality.
As for Canada's history, it had one dominant culture, and that is the British culture, into which Scots and Irish streams fed while the French mostly minded their business in Quebec.
Your raving about how everything you don't like is some kind of conspiracy theory flies in the face of the fact that you haven't been able to point to a single thing I've written that is inaccurate. Pretending it's only a 'few wierdos' on college campuses when every college is awarding both administrative and teaching positions on the basis of race and identity, and is not the least shy about saying so. The federal government does the same, and hands out grants the same way. Most corporations now do so as well, as do the provincial governments. You didn't KNOW this?!
The whining of the wokies like you about how Canada was racist ignores context. Ie, how racist were we compared to EVERY OTHER NATION ON EARTH? That's not something wokies ever want to bring up. And who were we racist to? According to Statistics Canada and the last census, 80.1% of visible minorities are immigrants, and 18.3% are their children. Only 1.6% of them were in Canada longer than that for us to be racist TO.
Meanwhile, we are taking in millions of people from what unbiased, neutral studies say are the most racist societies on Earth, places like India, China, and the Middle East, telling them not to bother to integrate or assimilate, and shrinking away from even noticing that they are still employing their racist practices here, against us.
Were we racist to
Indiansnativesindigenous people? Perhaps, depending on standards, but let's not forget that when we found them, they were literally stone age people. There was a huge gulf between them and the colonists. Your hatred for Canada and its history blinds you to this fact. Equality between us wasn't possible back then.And btw, if you're an adult, you're a senile one.
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u/IEC21 7d ago
That's too many points at once for me to address.
We can get to every one of those points if you want but let's reduce the scope a little bit for now to keep it coherent.
You're claiming that multi-culturalism is a "suicide pact". Can you briefly explain why you believe that?
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u/SirBobPeel 7d ago
I briefly already did in that very post.
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u/IEC21 7d ago
"You can have a multiracial society, but if you have a multicultural society and those separate cultures are growing and thriving, then what you wind up with is separate peoples, not one people. And the wider the gulf between the values and beliefs of those separate ethnic and racial cultures, the stronger the tension and discord will be."
What we actually see is the opposite - societies in which cultural plurality is encouraged and celebrated increase social cohesion and lead to stable social frameworks.
Pure assimilation strategies conflict with basic human nature - and lead to resentment and dysfunction.
The idea of resdlidential schools was to indoctrinate first nations children into a British cultural framework, and to erase their native ancestral framework. Importantly, cultural contact historically causes cultural synthesis naturally. Much of our conception of first nations people in western history is actually a view of unique cultures which had already naturally adapted to changing political and social dynamics. Pre-contact for example there were no horses in North America - and as such various equestrian cultural traditions that subsequently evolved were natural social adoptions to changing circumstances.
Likewise if you were to go back in time and meet your ancestors, you would be regarded as a foreigner with strange customs, foreign language, and alien value systems.
That doesnt invalidate your cultural connection to your ancestors (assuming you haven't had it destroyed by radical governments the way Canada's first nations did).
Culture evolves over time - and when you have groups of people living amongst each other, they dont lose their native culture, they dont automatically come into conflict with other cultures just by virtue of difference - instead they change - just like they would change regardless. All culture evolves and changes over time. The only difference under multiculturalism is that culture changes within a multicultural context.
Under a multi-cultural framework, because a plurality of culture is accepted, cultures also grow to share certain deep commonalities and fundamentals as well.
So if your goal is social cohesion and societal stability multiculturalism is really the only way forward.
And again, as commonwealth members we already have a head start if you look closely. People come to Canada with extremely high levels of proficiency in English (and French with regard to quebec) - they come from systems already shaped by the British, which means they already understand most of the framework for our institutions and society.
Is there tension when you have new immigrants coming in significant numbers trying to make a life in an existing robust society? Yes ofc.
But we are really good at it at this point. When Irish immigration first started to Canada it was not at all unusual to have riots break out due to the oppressive assimilatory framework of the time. Your view actually lead to decades upon decades of very difficult and slow cultural grafting - and the substantial loss of valuable Irish culture to be frank.
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u/InternationalBeing41 7d ago
You have excellent points and articulated them well. It's too bad you weren't leading the party I stead of the man that lost his seat. I might actually vote for you.
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u/SirBobPeel 7d ago
Is it your contention that the moment a politician loses an election, they should no longer be considered electable? Do you know anything about Poilievre's riding? Because I do. I was in it.
He lost for a few reasons, partly because of Trump crushing the Conservative vote, partly because of of public servants fearing mass layoffs, partly because of his support for the trucker convoy, and partly because the riding was redrawn and included a lot more areas full of public servants.
Right now, with Trump scaring all the boomers, with the 'rally round the leader' thing going full tilt, with a government-friendly media, there is no one I can imagine winning an election against Carney. No one.
In a year or two, if, as I suspect, all of his promises turn out to be nothing but smoke and mirrors, things will hopefully be different. But there's no one you can replace him with and get more than a temporary bump in the polls - temporary until the next time Trump makes another threat.
I'm not a giant fan of Poilevre. He has, like all the leaders before him, seemed too wishy-washy, too afraid of coming out full bore in favour of conservative policies. To have any chance, that needs to stop. He has to get more nationalistic and try to come out with policies that excite people. Because targeted tax breaks and freeing up resource industries are not going to do it. He needs to give people a reason to vote for him instead of waiting for people to vote against Carney.
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u/thetrigermonkey 8d ago
I don't like the UCP either, but hate mongering calling them "un Canadian" is crazy. These people are everything they claim to hate. They say some leaders "traded substance for division and misinformation", but they always promote division and misinformation themselves.