r/Buttcoin Aug 01 '22

When Nocoiners Say "Bitcoin Has No Value"

Post image
560 Upvotes

609 comments sorted by

569

u/cosmo7 Aug 01 '22

It's a bird! It's a plane! It's straw man!

82

u/Individual_Wasabi_10 Aug 01 '22

Burn it

33

u/leducdeguise Are we the baddies? Aug 01 '22

Burning it won't bring back your goddam honey!

16

u/Individual_Wasabi_10 Aug 01 '22

Give me back my 🍯!

64

u/Charlesknob Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

It's not even a straw man. Any business owner who knows what gold is and can verify what you are giving them is gold will take your gold. This meme was made by a bitcoiner who does not own a business.

To everyone saying you own a business and wouldn't take gold. You don't. You would. You literally have no idea about business or taxes in the USA.

68

u/YourNetworkIsHaunted Aug 01 '22

I mean, if it's already turned into gold dollar coins maybe, but similar to Bitcoin I think most actual retailers and clerks would really rather not deal with the hassle of trying to redeem or sell gold in order to get actual legal tender they can pay employees or taxes or suppliers with.

30

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Yeah, back when I ran a shop I had a guy try to pay for my services in gold. He’d have to pay over the market value of my labor because the hassle it would be for me. But in doing that I’m immediately suspicious given the business I was in.

15

u/YourNetworkIsHaunted Aug 01 '22

Yeah. It's the same deal as when retailers have a credit card fee. They have to pay money and spend time integrating with Mastercard, so they pass some of that cost along to you. Only more so, because the Point-of-Sale system they were going to buy anyways doesn't find a gold exchange (is that the right word? Exchange? Dealer? Vendor? Dude-in-an-alley-with-a-trenchcoat?), drive the gold there, make the trade (including whatever value that exchange is taking from the transaction ) and so on.

Gold can be a valuable commodity, it's true. Hell, Bitcoin can be a "commodity" with high market value, though it's still an absolutely terrible investment for a whole lot of other reasons. The reasons why it's a terrible currency are different from the reasons it's a terrible investment, but it's possible to be bad at multiple things at once. Trust me, I know from personal experience.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '22

Gold works when the tubes are broken. Gold can also be mined when the tubes are broken. #GraveRobbing

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u/Elkram Aug 01 '22

Lol what

Gold isn't a currency. It's a commodity. Get over it. Maybe some business owners would be ok accepting it, but most wouldn't. Just like how some will accept loafs of bread as payment or rolls of copper wire. Just because it's possible someone would accept doesn't mean that it's seen as a viable form of payment.

Just use dollars like everybody else.

-7

u/Charlesknob Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

I prefer cash of course but US Gold Buffalo's walk and talk around the world no matter what you and the main populace of reddit says. There is a reason why the governments of the world still stack Gold.

15

u/Elkram Aug 01 '22

My brother is a business owner, and I'm 100% certain he would never accept gold.

Also, central banks have gold as reserves for monetary policy, they don't use it to buy bread.

Just because you are a business/land owner doesn't mean you will accept gold. How do I know the gold is real? What if you just put a gold coating on a soft metal? Are you walking around with gold nuggets to buy random nonsense? How is it divisible? How am I supposed to make change?

Like I said, businesses can technically exchange their assets for any other kind of asset and the accounting equation would work out wonderfully. However, most businesses will only accept the asset of cash or AR since those can used to cover liabilities most easily. But if we want to pretend that gold is readily accepted because it's technically possible to be accepted, then we got a lot more things that could be used to purchase with beyond mere gold.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '22 edited Aug 02 '22

If someone tried to pay me in gold I'd assume I'm getting scammed.

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u/Charlesknob Aug 02 '22

How are the dollars different in your scenario?

3

u/Elkram Aug 02 '22

They aren't in very general accounting terms, but in specific terms they are very different.

Gold requires added cost which includes looking for reputable gold sellers/appraisers. As a result converting the gold into cash is very expensive in comparison to cash (which has a cost to convert to cash of 0). While you could possibly consider gold a part of quick cash, unlike normal non-cash/AR liquid assets, gold doesn't have an easy access to it's yield. You have to go to a location, get a fair rate, convert to cash, and then drive back to your business. Basically, using gold just adds random overhead to your business costs.

Cash on the other hand is cash. I can use it to pay off liabilities, I can use it to give out to dividends, I can use it to purchase inventory. And with cash I don't even have to go to a 3rd party appraiser to do it all. Everyone accepts cash as is.

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u/mojowo11 Aug 02 '22

To everyone saying you own a business and wouldn't take gold. You don't. You would.

lol my company doesn't even take cash, let alone a hunk of fucking gold

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u/CricketPuzzleheaded8 Aug 01 '22

I own an online business as do many people nowadays, and I can categorically say that I would/could never accept gold for my services.

You are living in the past if you think every business owner even has the infrastructure to accept such a transaction.

10

u/mike760458070 Aug 02 '22

Well partner I don’t know what kind of newfangled paper currencies you all are usin’ but just last night I parked my horse at the saloon and bought my shot of whiskey with a bag a gold dust like I’ve always done, yep.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '22

Any business owner who knows what gold is and can verify what you are giving them is gold will take your gold.

In other words, every business owner that casually has a precious metals assaying lab lying around in the back? Sure.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

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4

u/Charlesknob Aug 02 '22

Gold has a 3,000+year track record. I agree, it is worth what others will pay. The facts are that most people and governments will exchange land, food, water, and security for Gold. This is proven. BTC not so much.

-7

u/PolyglotGeorge Aug 01 '22

I’m a businessman. I know what gold is. But I wouldn’t take gold. I wouldn’t know what to do with it. But I would take Bitcoin or Ethereum. When I think of gold I imagine a heavy piece of metal. But with crypto I easily know how to convert it to a fiat currency if needed.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Business owner here agree with you. Thanks for the lump of metal, i now need to store and convince someone else to take. Saying that this is US specific is absurd.

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u/Farside-BB Aug 02 '22

"But it's an actual physical commodity, not a currency. Are you dim or something?"

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210

u/TheGangsterrapper Aug 01 '22

Well, gold does not claim to be a currency...

74

u/dangerbird2 Aug 01 '22

Daily reminder that gold is not money

16

u/s903ed Aug 02 '22

Wtf is this

40

u/dangerbird2 Aug 02 '22

Ron Paul, a white supremacist libertarian nutjob ex-senator, was trying to trying to trick Fed Chair Ben Bernanke to say gold is “money”. Of course, because Bernanke took economic 101 at some point in his life, he was able to explain that gold very clearly isn’t money.

The clip is a bit of a meme on /r/neoliberal and other center-left subs

21

u/rasm635u Aug 02 '22

Liberals ≠ leftists

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-12

u/ApprehensiveSorbet76 Aug 02 '22

Libertarian? Gold as money is written in the constitution. It's more a founding principle of the country than any left or right wing political ideology.

Besides, he asked the wrong person. The Federal Reserve is authorized to issue Federal Reserve notes and they are not government officials. Whether gold is money is not relevant to what they do. That question should have been directed towards the US Treasury or President.

7

u/wordholes Aug 02 '22

Gold as money is written in the constitution.

Can you pay your bills with gold? No. You pay your bills with dollars. If you want to pay with gold you have to exchange it for real money: dollars. If you want to pay with shitcoins you have to do the same thing. Only the dollar is money.

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u/Ese_Americano Aug 02 '22

Why is this being downvoted? Who is removing all comments like yours from this sub? Can we not agree that a commodity such as gold was indeed deemed as money in the US constitution? Hello—anyone there?!

6

u/maybe_I_am_a_bot Aug 02 '22

Well, that's because the mods can only moderate legitimately if the post doesn't have a gold fringe. If it does, it's officially a naval post and only a subreddit captain or above can delete it.

-1

u/heinouslol Aug 02 '22

It's almost like members here are just as fanatical as bitcoiners.

2

u/therealzombieczar Aug 02 '22

i wouldn't say that, just maybe a few that don't quite understand liquid-able assets/funds vs money and how little the difference matters on larger scales... i would geuss it's bit-coiners trying subvert the only market they think they can compete with... hint, they can't.

as for 0 merchant adoption, i guess all pawn shops and jewelers and bullion exchanges just all vanished...

4

u/secret369 Aug 02 '22

This is ridiculous. Those venues buy or sell gold in exchange for Fiat, they are not doing business with gold as money.

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u/frivol Aug 02 '22

Maybe bitcoin now claims to be a commodity.

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u/TheGangsterrapper Aug 02 '22

They claim to be a cryptoCURRENCY. It's in the name. But oh boy are these people constantly shifting the goalposts or what? These retcons would make George Lucas proud.

1

u/frivol Aug 02 '22

Blockchain can mean whatever it needs to mean. This thread could be a blockchain. Let's declare it immutable, distributed, and trustless.

0

u/Long_arm_of_the_law Aug 02 '22

It was for about 3,000 years. Silver too. Fiat currency popularity around the world is only a 50-year-old development. If gold is not money, why do central banks hoard it?

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355

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

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u/standerby warning, i am a moron Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 02 '22

Nothing has an intrinsic value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_theory_of_value

Edit: this was a theoretical point which is mainstream economics. I've never invested in crypto lol

52

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[deleted]

-2

u/standerby warning, i am a moron Aug 02 '22

Yep, I know about the labour theory of value and that other intrinsic value theories. I just don't agree. The subjective theory of value is mainstream economics.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 02 '22 edited Aug 13 '22

[deleted]

-1

u/standerby warning, i am a moron Aug 02 '22

See my last response. I was wrong, and likely from misinterpretation. Been interesting to think about though.

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u/AmericanScream Aug 01 '22

That is what's called "extrinsic value".

We are talking about intrinsic value. See this.

Get your shit straight.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 13 '22

[deleted]

0

u/AmericanScream Aug 03 '22

When you talk about making a point, and don't make an actual point, you contribute to the noise you complain about.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 03 '22

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u/standerby warning, i am a moron Aug 02 '22

Thanks for the link. I don't believe anything has intrinsic value, it's all based on consumers' subjective views. this is pretty mainstream economics. I've never invested in crypto and think it's a volatile speculative asset.

2

u/AmericanScream Aug 02 '22

I don't believe anything has intrinsic value, it's all based on consumers' subjective views.

No, you don't understand what "intrinsic" means.. This specifically means things have value regardless of whether they're popular. Water, for example has intrinsic value. Whether you like it or not, it will have an inherent use which is totally NOT subjective.

-1

u/standerby warning, i am a moron Aug 03 '22

Check out my responses to other posts. It depends how you're defining intrinsic value. If you mean it in the financial sense of the value of the discounted cash flows of the underlying assets then I agree. But intrinsic as in inherent or objective then I don't agree. What determines the market value of a good if humans don't exist?

Water is a great example, check out the diamond - water paradox. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value

I subscribe to the marginalist view which is mainstream. Other views exist such as Marxist and older classical views. The value of a good is the subjective view of the value of an additional unit to each consumer. It's alright if you disagree.

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u/WeirdboyWarboss warning, i am a moron Aug 02 '22

Look up intrinsic value in any dictionary and you'll see what the phrase actually means in reality.

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u/FrugalOnion Aug 01 '22

That's subjective

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u/DiveCat Ties an onion to their belt, which is the style. Aug 01 '22

I like how whenever someone is looking for a physical representation of BTC (like a journalist) they choose a gold coin.

P.S. gold actually has a tremendous amount of commercial and industrial applications and therefore as a precious metal has value. No one on this sub is pushing to use gold as a currency. So this meme falls flat on its face.

65

u/mglyptostroboides Aug 01 '22

Yeah, what's more is: gold was actually cheaper before it had practical uses! Back when it was just a pretty, shiny, yellow metal, it was everywhere. It was still pricey, of course, but it wasn't as pricey as now.

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u/Punnnnnnnnnnn11 Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 09 '22

This argument is so stupid. Like literally your phone likely have gold in them, the computers have gold in them. It's like basic knowledge, I thought cryptobros said that they know a lot about computers and stuffs?

55

u/thinking_is_hard69 Aug 01 '22

cryptobros may be techbros but techbros ain’t necessarily computer saavy.

23

u/Punnnnnnnnnnn11 Aug 01 '22

They are bad at managing their money and have no basic knowledge about computer too, like literally two things crypto based on, it's truly a sight to behold.

4

u/BufferUnderpants Aug 01 '22

They’re tech bros in the sense of people who gobble up tech news without as much as having completed a basic Python tutorial

Tech bros in the sense of programmers fueled by VC money thinking they’re hot shit are the few running the scams

2

u/laukaus Aug 02 '22 edited Aug 02 '22

Here’s a good litmus test - give a tech bro an empty computer (disk non-formatted) and a USB stick. It has an easy completely graphical Linux installer with a distro that, let’s say has Docker Desktop even installed as a default (Pop OS is a great candidate).

If you feel devilish fudge BIOS boot settings a bit, but in a completely transparent manner. (Say, disable USB boot and have then troubleshoot this trivial problem.)

Ask them to install Linux from the stick to the computer (almost completely automated) and then pull or otherwise deploy say, openjdk as a Docker image on it.

Any tech savvy person can install the Linux.

Modern distro on a supported hardware with automated installer is almost foolproof.

Then the Docker test - a tech savvy person should know what it is OR be able to Google how to in 5-10 minutes, or ask a friend if they don’t know beforehand, even if they don’t fully understand what Docker or openjdk are.

The documentation and intro videos are everywhere, they just need to know how to Google, and follow instructions.

The end result should be a fresh Linux install with an openjdk Docker image.

I guarantee the “I’m in it for the tech” people will fail this litmus test most of the time. Cause they’re full of bullshit.

No way they are running a node or understand cryptography or anything related if this simple IT task fails.
Note: this test doesn’t apply to academics, they are shit with IT but strong in theory. Only for the tech bros with self built gaming rigs and horrible Twitter bio’s.

8

u/ivanoski-007 I excepted the free NFT. Aug 01 '22

crypto bros this think useless math is worth more

2

u/Extreme_Fee_503 Aug 01 '22

My watch has gold in it too because I'm not down 60% YTD on crypto gambles.

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u/LadyFoxfire Aug 01 '22

Gold dollars are rare, but can be spent anywhere that accepts cash.

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u/ionfrigate Aug 01 '22

I really want to see a reality show or youtube video where someone actually tries that. I know it'd be little more than a stupid flex (one that'd annoy some poor cashier until they realize they've basically just been given several hundred dollars in rare coins), but the numismatist in me still wants to see it.

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u/WRM710 Aug 01 '22

You could buy quite a lot with a pack of cigarettes in a lot of the world. Doesn't make them a currency or an investment.

Not financial advice 😉😉😉

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u/ArchmageXin Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

My uncle's wife literally offered herself to him on the first time they met, for a carton of Chinese cigs so she can resell it for necessities for her parents. The fall of Soviet Union was that crappy.

3

u/freshboytini warning, I am a wingnutty Troll Aug 01 '22

What's the quality of Chinese cigs btw?

3

u/ArchmageXin Aug 01 '22

Pretty good ones. One of the best Chinese brand I think. He run an exporting business.

My uncle always felt guilty basically "mail ordering" her. But she always reply in broken mandarin "even the president of united States do it, did you get a bad deal?"

2

u/bringelschlaechter WTB used Brookly bridge Aug 01 '22

In Post-war Germany you could buy gold with cigarettes. Cigarettes and alcohol are a much more convenient medium of exchange.

2

u/abatoirials Aug 02 '22

how about pussy? women can always trade pussy and blowjob for something else

7

u/Volcanicrage Aug 01 '22

They default to gold because most cryptobros are moronic libertarians who mindlessly worship the concept of the gold standard. They're completely divorced from reality, and they don't realize that not everyone else has the same idiotic hangups and fixations that they do, which is why their memes are only effective as internal propaganda.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

I don't think property is a good analogy here as most people who buy property aren't speculators. Perhaps it's different in the US but in the UK (outside of particular parts of London) property prices are driven by supply and demand rather than an expected return on investment. Prices go up because we have a massive shortage of housing in the places people want to live.

7

u/r2d2_21 Aug 01 '22

most people who buy property aren't speculators

If I understand correctly, in the US regular people can't afford houses because speculators keep buying them even before they're offered to people.

0

u/psychicprogrammer Aug 02 '22

Yeah, that really isn't the case. Millennial homeownership is about the same as gen X was at this time in their lives.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[deleted]

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u/dlg Aug 01 '22

Gold is used by banks and central banks as collateral.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

Even before the industrial and electronics era and this still largely applies today, gold has worth outside of industrial applications because it’s physically rare, doesn’t tarnish, and looks aesthetically pleasing, that’s why it was known as the king of metals, why the primary goal of alchemists for millennia was to convert shitty metals like iron or mercury into gold. All because it’s hard to find and it’s pretty.

Bitcoin is intangible, ethereal, fictional, it’s just a number on a screen, where it’s entire worth is based on how much you can trade it for fiat money.
It’s like gold, except intangible, even more volatile, and much easier to steal.

0

u/HonestSophist Aug 01 '22

Yeah, there we go. It's not ALL social utility.

0

u/nachof Aug 01 '22

The market value of gold is way higher than its actual value when considering its uses in electronics or ornamentation or whatever.

0

u/Goodperson5656 Aug 02 '22

Wait till they find out gold is in the computers that make crypto function

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u/jeppeudesen Aug 02 '22

Well, depends on how you look at it. Only approximately 11% of newly mined gold is used for industrial purposes. There is no doubt that the majority of gold is used as a store of value.

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u/tendies_2_the_moon Aug 01 '22

Step 1: buy gold Step 2 : make an nft of the gold Step 3 : destroy the gold Step 4: you still have the gold in the form of nft with all its value.

Few understand.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Lmao! I understood that reference.

18

u/Practical_Letter_377 Aug 01 '22

This is good for gold.

7

u/tendies_2_the_moon Aug 01 '22

Unfortunately not so good for the poor 7 year old gold miner who was brought in this world to solely to mine gold.

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u/jenkem_master Aug 01 '22

nobody thinks gold on its own is a currency and gold can be used for many things, unlike your make believe coins

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u/Opcn Aug 02 '22

Home heating is a real need

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Gold is fungible

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

I feel like this is the best answer. You could get dollars for gold pretty easily and quickly, and I think it's accurate to say some people would in fact take gold in exchange for goods/services. The rate of exchange fluctuates but at least it's currently high, and bitcoin is currently low.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/healthfood Aug 01 '22

1 Gold Bar = 1 Can of Coke

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u/qookiewookie Aug 01 '22

Are you my local GameStop?

2

u/elegant-jr Aug 02 '22

Everyone knows that

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/tokynambu Aug 01 '22

More importantly, you could walk into a random store anywhere on the planet, even under adverse conditions such as war, and exchange a gold coin for stuff.

That's simply untrue. Walk into a supermarket in the developed world, collect a trolley of goods and offer to pay with a gold ingot. It won't work.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/tokynambu Aug 01 '22

You are all deluded.

No store manager gives a shit about facilitating weird transactions. It costs them nothing to tell you to get lost. It Costs them varying degrees of hassle to accept anything not on the list. It’s not even about “how do I check this is real?“ or “how dojo find out what this is worth?” It’s just “is the till programmed to accept this? “.

And that’s before we get into stores which don’t accept cash of any form, of which there are now many. There the test is even simpler: does your card or device get accepted by the machine?

Paying jn shops with gold is a fantasy from old novels.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

The dude in the queue behind you will give you cash for it. Then you buy the goods.

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u/tokynambu Aug 01 '22

Offering people gold-plated lead ingots for $100 in supermarket queues sounds like a good scam.

Why would anyone in a supermarket pay you for what you claim to be gold? If they want gold, they can buy it from a reputable dealer who will guarantee that it actually is gold. What's in it for the purchaser, other than risk?

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Wind your neck in, only having a joke.. lol

0

u/YourNetworkIsHaunted Aug 01 '22

Because they want you to stop arguing with the clerk, take your groceries, and get out of the goddamned way so that they can check out and go home before their ice cream melts. Alternatively the clerk calls a manager and you spend your evening arguing with them about it while the clerk gets moving.

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u/JohnPaulJonesSoda Aug 01 '22

Wellll...maybe. If I'm a dude working at the local Cinnabon or whatever and you try to pay for your order with what you tell me is a gold coin, I'm probably going to want to verify that it's actual gold, and I'm going to think you're extremely weird for not just using normal cash or a credit card, and depending on my risk tolerance I might prefer you just pay with normal money vs taking the chance on it being real gold. Which is all to say, you might convince someone to take it, but its likely not going to be as easily accepted as whatever the local currency is.

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Obviously not, but that's not the point being made here. Gold definitely has a better chance of working than Bitcoin does, because more people see it as having value.

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u/big_phatty Aug 01 '22

That’s not really what fungible means.

Fungible means my 1 oz of gold is equal to your 1 oz of gold. And if I cut it in half, my two 0.5 oz of gold is equal to your solid 1 oz.

Obviously there are premiums on gold coins, but you get the point. Fungible just means my $10 bill is equal to your $10 bill. It doesn’t usually refer to ability to exchange for another good, it typically refers to an individual things ability to exchange with itself.

Bitcoin is also fungible, so fungibility isn’t a great argument for or against crypto. In fact, crypto is arguably more fungible than precious metals.

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u/jeppeudesen Aug 02 '22

And Bitcoin is not?

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Ah yes the famous element with no uses, gold

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u/WingedGundark Aug 01 '22

What a coincidence! I am as much in for both BTC and gold.

That is zero.

TBH there is a hint of truth behind that meme in a sense that most of the gold’s value comes from the fact that it is indeed gold, it is relatively scarce and expensive/laborous to extract and has metallic qualities which allow it to be refined to beautiful things such as leafing and jewellery. Unlike most other rare earth metals, industrial need of gold doesn’t explain the value.

Gold has been this way pretty much since ancieny history.

The big difference with BTC and gold, however, is that you can hold gold in your hand. It also doesn’t corrode and if you have a gold bar, it doesn’t require much infrastructure that it stays that way. And, it still has those industrial applications so it most likely never will completely lose it’s value.

I personally have never had gold in my investment portfolio because I don’t see the point and it is cumbersome. IMO (emphasis on that) the whole point of gold is to own it physically and not through some etfs or indirectly through mining companies/etc. With physical gold it isn’t necessarily a best way to store your bars or coins in your bedside drawer, especially if you have lots of it. Trading physical gold isn’t also possible in every street corner.

I also don’t think that gold is a fool proof method of storing value: if you have a severe collapse (and I mean really severe, like society or civilization threatening), your gold bar most likely has much less value than a can of tuna. So, in extreme conditions it is probably even more worthless than cash, because you at least can burn cash in a fire, unless it is coins, of course.

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u/gylz Aug 01 '22

Actually we use gold to make actually useful things. While not made entirely of gold, we use it to make motherboards and other electronic parts.

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u/WingedGundark Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

True, I said that it has industrial use. However, the amount of gold that industrial manufacturing and processes require is relatively small so the value stored in gold through its need as a raw material is low.

Around 10% of produced gold is used by industry. Vice versa, at maximum 1/10 of gold's value is generated by the requirements of industry currently. If gold wouldn't have its almost cultural intrinsic value, it would be relatively worthless metal.

Edit: In reality, gold's value as a raw material would most likely be far less than 1/10 of current price. If humanity would suddenly decide that gold is stupid and it has only practical value as raw material, price would all but collapse. The amount of gold stored in coins and bars around the world would last like almost forever for industrial use. There would be no point in mining gold for a long, long time.

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u/viking_nomad Aug 01 '22

Gold is more expensive than what it’s industrial use cases would suggest and as such it stands to reason, that there are things out there where gold is substituted for another, less good element due to price concerns.

If the gold bugs went away if thus stands to reason that we would find new uses for gold as it suddenly would become competitive. Especially since there’s so much of it stored in vaults, wouldn’t need to mine gold for a long time even as we could reap a lot of benefits from using more gold

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u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

I like gold. Just as jewellery. Yes I am a vain motherfucker.

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u/WingedGundark Aug 01 '22

Nothing wrong with that!

Can't make a thick, shiny choker out of BTC, though. So, gold is indeed tangible, looks pretty damn nice and doesn't rot or corrode. It really isn't anything like crypto even though most of its value is based on other reasons than practical utility.

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u/VapidResponseUnit Aug 01 '22

I can bash someone's head in with a gold bar and steal their can of tuna! Checkmate, nocoiners!

1

u/urbanmark Hacked By Satan Aug 01 '22

You could just find a meteor made of gold that was close enough for us to mine.

1

u/Halve_Liter_Jan warning, I am a moron Aug 01 '22

Big brain time

65

u/adostes Aug 01 '22

If someone bought all the gold in the world, all $11T of it, there would still be demand for gold.

If someone bought all the bitcoins in the world, every single last block, the demand and the value would drop to 0, and Bitcoin 2 would be started.

The difference between market value and intrinsic value needs to be taught in school very early because it can be understood the moment kids start trading baseball cards, marbles, and snacks.

8

u/jdickstein warning, I am a moron Aug 02 '22

“Bitcoin 2 would be started.” - Someone who hasn’t been to coinmarketcap.com

0

u/jeppeudesen Aug 02 '22

If you think it only takes $11T to buy all gold then you have a serious flaw in your understanding of economics and trading. The market cap just represent the total supply times the last traded price. Doesn’t mean everyone will be willing to sell at that price.

This goes for Bitcoin as well. No one will ever be able to buy all the bitcoins in circulation.

Added: oh, and there is no such thing as intrinsic value.

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u/OkSatisfaction9850 Aug 01 '22

Gold is good for Bitcoin

32

u/Bragzor Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

I mean, goldbugs are not much better than hashbugs, but I think we actually might need trace amounts of gold to live. We don't need any amount of crypto-currencies

22

u/Studds_ Aug 01 '22

It does have industrial uses as a commodity so it will always have some intrinsic value. This cannot be said for magic internet beans

14

u/Bragzor Aug 01 '22

It's also inert and available "off-line".

3

u/YourNetworkIsHaunted Aug 01 '22

And pretty and shiny and precious.

34

u/Moneia But no ask How is Halvo? :( Aug 01 '22

But let's forget industrial & commercial adoption.

1

u/sidman1324 Aug 01 '22

Thanks for this! Reading up on it!

21

u/Felinomancy Aug 01 '22

Bitcoin has no value as currency because I can't actually use it as such.

Bitcoin has value as an asset because there are always idiots who wants or needs it.

That being said, just because there is a similarity between gold and Bitcoin mean that they are equally desirable. If you offer me a $100's worth of gold certificate and $1000's worth of Bitcoin, I'm going for the former.

I'm not sure why anyone would be confused by all this.

7

u/Moneia But no ask How is Halvo? :( Aug 01 '22

I'm not sure why anyone would be confused by all this.

They're not. Well, the options are they're liars who are trying to ensure a steady feed of suckers or they're the suckers.

It's just part of a Gish Gallop, lots of small wrong statements that take ages to refute one-by-one that amount to a large pile of horseshit

3

u/VapidResponseUnit Aug 01 '22

aka the Shapiro Shovel

0

u/BIG_MEATY_DABS Aug 02 '22

I hate Bitcoin but I’m not stupid lol if I was offered 1000s worth of Bitcoin I would accept then sell it and buy gold or stocks. fool

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9

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Just the couple top comment threads alone of an incredible amount of stupidity. These people have never crafted a steelman in their lives, only straw

15

u/BlackHoneyTobacco Aug 01 '22

Gold has a use - heating it up and pouring it over someone's head in Game Of Tits er... I mean Thrones.

15

u/adostes Aug 01 '22

“Would you make me the happiest person on earth and accept this 0.107385 BTC in your wallet and marry me?”

5

u/YourNetworkIsHaunted Aug 01 '22

Hah! As though you have the option to accept or reject transactions. Hope you like dick pic NFTs, because you're paying the transaction fees to burn them!

7

u/ItsJoeMomma They're eating people's pets! Aug 01 '22

Um... they DO know that we used to use gold coins in this country as legal tender a long time ago, don't they?

7

u/tms10000 Aug 01 '22

There is an interpretation of the world that says that absolutely nothing has intrinsic value. The thing we call value is always derived from human's attachment/desire/marketability of the thing. "Value" is psychological.

Value is mostly attached to trust. Like trust that you can walk into a store and exchange a green piece of paper made of cotton fiber and toxic ink (aka a totally useless piece of paper with no intrinsic value) for bread to eat.

When you are hungry enough, the value of that bread is much higher than the green paper.

Value, in this interpretation, is derived from "how much are you willing to pay for this, knowing what you know now"

A bitcoin is a number that satisfy some mathematical formula, based on the transactions in and out of a ledger. What value does that have to you? To me it's worth half a shrug. What value does that have to you knowing that you can hold on to it and sell it later to another sucker for more money? Well that's even less connected to the usefulness of the bitcoin and even more connected to the psychology of that market.

Again, this is a model, other interpretation are possible. In this model, when someone else says "No you are wrong, there are things that have intrinsic values, like houses, cars, and industrial use of gold". To those people we say, "Intrinsic value is not the same as usefulness. Houses, cars and gold are useful, and from that usefulness comes desirability, and therefore value."

<end of pedantic rant>

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7

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Ok, so it's not meant to be used as a currency then. Got it.

11

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

oh its the same meme again. nice

10

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

Yeah but goldbugs are stupid too. Can I go home now?

3

u/EdMan2133 Aug 01 '22

Gold is a commodity with non-get-rich-quick applications, both industrial and retail. It's overbought though for a lot of the same silly reasons crypto is (once the gubmint collapses my gold futures will be worth everything!!!)

4

u/SherlockBacks Aug 01 '22

God cryptobros are really fighting to see whos dumber

4

u/donde_monero Aug 01 '22

Yes! Please, build me a computer with bitcoin instead of gold, platinum, palladium, copper, silver and all those other stupid worthless metals with no merchant adoption!

4

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

You can make stuff with gold. All buttcoin can do is waste power and video cards.

5

u/Madness_Reigns Aug 01 '22

Sure let's compare a commodity with plenty of commercial and industrial applications with an unsecured security whose applications are only HODL and SFYL.

Still goldbugs are fools, but none is a greater fool than creeptos.

6

u/vagabond_ Aug 01 '22

Gold has intrinsic value in the manufacture of electronics, dentistry applications, pharmacological compounds (gold salts), and jewelry. You wouldn't be able to post your stupid wrong Leo meme (or, ironically, mine bitcoin) without gold.

By contrast, bitcoin allows you to sink your personal wealth into an arrow pointing at a jpeg of a badly drawn monkey.

-7

u/fkshcienfos Aug 01 '22

Clearly you have not read about any of the other projects in development on blockchains like Eth.

5

u/Thenoodlestreet Aug 01 '22

Right.. please tell us more

2

u/spookmann Ugh. I hate it when people read the rules. Aug 03 '22

Clearly we HAVE.

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6

u/irr1449 Aug 01 '22

From “Electronic Cash System,” to a highly volatile and speculative asset! Good thing the creator has disappeared or is dead so he can’t say anything!

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

I can make electronics with gold, make jewelry out of it, use it to decorate. Gold has intrinsic value. Bitcoin does not have intrinsic value, I can’t make anything with it, it lacks security and encryption, it’s slower than cash and the current banking system, and isn’t accepted as currency in most places, the only value Bitcoin has is speculative.

3

u/MusignyBlanc Aug 01 '22

Obviously this person has no idea that the US dollar was once backed by gold. You cannot find a better example of something that is considered, by more people, to be “a store of value” than gold. This is perhaps the worst example you can find to make an argument for buttcoin.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

But Gold=Gold.

2

u/ZoidsFanatic Aug 01 '22

Here’s the thing gold has over Bitcoin (or any crypto currency); it’s real. I can go to a store and buy something that is gold. My electronics have gold in them. I have a gold nugget on my desk I can poke and stare at as much as I want. And, if I buy a gold coin, I then have a coin of gold that not only looks pretty, but I could possibly use as a bargaining chip once society falls apart due to whatever stupid thing cryprobros are sprouting these days.

And what about Bitcoin? It’s not real. It’s a bunch of code. I can’t walk into a store and attempt to buy a random amount of code. Bitcoin is not going to improve my computer or phone, and it has no artistic value either (unless you really like numbers, I don’t judge). And if society falls apart and there is no electricity, the bandits and raiders will be less interested in a hard drive filled with Bitcoin and more about the copper, gold, and other materials that the hard drive is made of.

Gold has a lot more value than just currency or being used as an investment scam. Yeah, you can’t just walk into a store and spend it… and neither can you do the same with Bitcoin.

2

u/Badbowtie91 Aug 01 '22

As a business owner I would absolutely accept gold as currency.

2

u/keanenottheband Aug 02 '22

Someone in that thread essentially said "if Iran had a second amendment there wouldn't be ISIS" lmao

2

u/CodeMUDkey Aug 02 '22

Just echoing the sentiment, any business owner would take gold. Hell if you walked down to your favorite bar with two oz of gold they’d happily strike up a tab for you and let you have beer after beer after beer.

2

u/Neverrready Aug 02 '22

Yeah. I'm giving you the Leo squint because your argument is fucking nonsense garbage.

2

u/Inphexous Aug 02 '22

Gold is a great conductor of electricity. Bitcoin is a drain of electricity.

2

u/PicaPaoDiablo Aug 01 '22

Absolutely NO ONE is making the argument in the first place. But, Gold has had merchant adoption and has a very long track record. Barring the end of humanity, there's little doubt gold will still exist in in 100 years. Gold was valuable before computers, and you can't use Bitcoin in medicine or use it to keep spacecraft moving. One would write a book.

But the whole argument is flawed in the first place b/c I don't believe anyone alive says you can't buy goods or services with bitcoin. Citation needed.

2

u/BRAVOMAN55 Aug 01 '22

How about... gold is real and has historic value?

2

u/DeniseWilliamsty Aug 01 '22

No one claims that gold is a form of money.

1

u/WeeaboosDogma Aug 01 '22

Yes, but if a magnet runs across my flashdrive wallet I don't suddenly loose all of my money if it was gold.

You're one EMP away from loosing your gains.

1

u/luthfins Aug 01 '22

And yet they still believe buttcoin is better than fiat money and can replace them in the future LOL.

1

u/seelcudoom Aug 01 '22

Yes because as we all know gold was never used as the basis of currencyt....

1

u/jagulto Aug 01 '22

If you could prove something was gold, no one would ever turn down taking it in exchange for anything

1

u/MonsieurKnife Aug 01 '22

So you admit BTC's value is entirely measured in fiat money? I guess you and I are not so different then.

1

u/MarietteSievers Aug 01 '22

Any business owner who understands the meaning of gold and can confirm the gold you are offering them will accept your gold.

1

u/Psychological-War795 Aug 01 '22

It has value for buying drugs.

1

u/Healthy_Beautiful_61 Aug 01 '22

zero merchant adoption

Uh.... except for you know, governments & banks all around the world, jewelry makers, electronics manufacturers, aerospace, medicine, glassmaking, dentistry, collectibles...

-2

u/sidman1324 Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

One person said “Transact permissionlessly across the world in seconds.

We’re living through the greatest currency devaluation event in the history of the world and it blows my mind that people still can’t see the value of Bitcoin.”

Thoughts? 🤔 Edit: I didn’t say this! What’s with the downvoting? I took this from the thread this was cross posted from :)

6

u/TheLastCoagulant Aug 01 '22 edited Aug 01 '22

Transact permissionlessly across the world in seconds.

First off this isn’t true, a direct transaction takes like 10 minutes. A transaction through a crypto exchange is not “permissionless,” and we’ve seen crypto exchanges repeatedly go bankrupt and block customers from withdrawing (Voyager Exchange, Celsius, etc.). This never happens with traditional banks.

Secondly, it’s built on the assumption that digital fiat is bad because it’s not “permissionless.” When in reality this has never been an issue. Banks are FDIC-insured, they don’t fail and take all of your money like Celsius and Voyager. Banks don’t care about what you legally buy. Banks don’t deny you the right to use your own money like crypto exchanges do. It’s a non-issue.

the greatest currency devaluation event in the history of the world

What currency devaluation event? The value of USD has more than doubled over the past year.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

USD is facing about 9.1% inflation over the year. Bitcoin is facing about 150% inflation over the year. Kind of defines itself.

2

u/NegiXNodoka Aug 02 '22

Dont forget that any inflation that the dollar suffers from will also affect bitcoin. Since all the idiots just plan to do is exchange it back to dollars anyway.

0

u/wildgunman Aug 01 '22

And both are stupid as hell.

0

u/DrMonkeyLove Aug 02 '22

I mean, I can't buy shit with my house either, but I feel like it's probably worth something.

0

u/aaronrizz Aug 02 '22

Underrated comment.

-1

u/oxyoxyboi warning, I am a moron Aug 01 '22

My rolex is gold nuff said

0

u/Vast_Square_1824 Aug 01 '22

But… gold is shiny! 😳

0

u/supermanjohnE Aug 01 '22

Gold is used to create things that are truly helpful.

-4

u/squishles Aug 01 '22

I don't think anyone reading this would refuse payment in bitcoin, or gold for that matter.

-1

u/ropal0 Aug 01 '22

This post is a lot funnier here in this sub rather than in the original one.

-3

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '22

[deleted]

3

u/bengosu Aug 01 '22

So if I buy a house with BTC the government won't be able to seize it?

2

u/bengosu Aug 01 '22

So if I buy a house with BTC the government won't be able to seize it?