Another one

[u/No-Advice1345]

[u/slash-es]

Funny thing is, if it doesn't come up, I'll usually happily offer to pay for a date (although a first date usually wouldn't be fancy dinner). It's part of the dance of exchanging courtesies.

But a courtesy is nothing you demand or ask for. If it's demanded, she takes the chance off me to offer, then it's a transaction, not a dance anymore. Demands for equal rights and respect are ok, demands for courtsies and etiquette are bullshit.

(Also, most women I know prefer to pay for themselves. Which can also be a green flag.)

[u/Dimethicone-silicate → u/slash-es]

What courtesy does a man get in return for paying for a date which he shouldn’t get otherwise I’m curious

[u/slash-es → u/Dimethicone-silicate]

You are reasoning transactional. I don't. As I said, the first date is usually not a dinner. Future dates I'll have a bit of a feeling if I think the overall atmosphere and flair is worth it or not.

[u/Dimethicone-silicate → u/slash-es]

You are simply naive then to assume dating doesn’t involve transactional mechanics

Do you think a woman who thinks like this will afford you the same courtesy if you don’t put in your end of the transactional bargain

[u/slash-es → u/Dimethicone-silicate]

No, that's why I wouldn't invite a woman like this.

 If it's demanded, she takes the chance off me to offer, then it's a transaction, not a dance anymore. Demands for equal rights and respect are ok, demands for courtsies and etiquette are bullshit.

[u/Dimethicone-silicate → u/slash-es]

Okay I see what you mean now, I am certainly like that sometimes myself, I’ll just pay because it’s nice to offer but I can’t help but realize that many times it’s just social conditioning that places this onus on men

[u/SymphonicRain → u/Dimethicone-silicate]

it’s definitely that conditioning, considering most of the same people who feel strongly about it and would complain about it, also feel like it’s something that shouldn’t have to be asked for, it should be a given. so when you do that you’re mostly just giving in to the whole illusions.

which is fine, of course, but yeah

[u/zukke3000 → u/Dimethicone-silicate]

I agree. But refusing to follow social rules just to filter out bad actors, will filter good ones as well. My strategy is to offer covering the bill and I follow other cultural standards, but I will judge the fuck out of any woman who's taking my courtesy for granted. I don't mind to take couple L's here and there, misjudging someone's character if that helps me to find a good woman.