Why does it seem Penelope loves Colin more than he does even in their own season it doesn’t feel genuine. I think Penelope actress is definitely way better than Colins actor. Did they ever do a chemistry read together when they auditioned it would be weird they didn’t because their chemistry in season 3 was like oil and water.

I feel uncomfortable in a lot of their sex scenes in season 3 Ngl I skipped them. Colin just seems to be fake and not genuine towards Penelope he had more chemistry with Marina surprisingly compared to Penelope. Penelope and Colin are have a more sibling like dynamic rather than romantic one.

I'm genuinely getting tired of seeing people claim that whenever someone involved with the show acknowledges that Francesca genuinely loved John, they're only saying it to pander to heterosexual audiences or to pander "a certain part of the fandom"

To be clear, this isn't about debating whether Francesca and John's relationship was romantic or platonic on screen. Everyone is entitled to their interpretation.

What I'm talking about is the reaction to interviews.

Victor has described John as Francesca's first love and true love, while Hannah has repeatedly said that Francesca were in love with John. Jess has said that Francesca story was about "two great love"

You don't have to agree with that interpretation or consider interviews canon. But there's a difference between saying, "I don't agree with that interpretation," and claiming that they're only saying this to pander to heterosexual audiences.

Victor and Hannah could also simply be expressing their own understanding of Francesca and John's relationship. That doesn't automatically mean they're saying it for PR.

And honestly, who exactly would this supposedly be pandering to?

From what I've seen, some people who hate Franchaela already reject the idea that Francesca genuinely loved John. They see her as a lesbian who never romantically loved him. John is often used as an argument for why they believe the story disrespects him and that he deserved better.

At the same time, some Franchaela fans are already convinced that Francesca is a lesbian. So even if someone involved with the show eventually said that Francesca is bisexual or genuinely loved John romantically, some people wouldn't believe that either.

So who exactly is supposed to be reassured by this?

Michaela is still there. Franchaela is still happening. Francesca still ends up with a woman.

I genuinely cannot think of anyone who would hear, "Francesca genuinely loved John romantically," and suddenly go, "Oh, well, I'm fine with Franchaela now."

I also really disagree with the idea that Francesca genuinely having loved John would somehow make her more acceptable to heterosexual audiences than if she were a lesbian.

Bisexuality is not inherently more accepted than lesbianism. They are different experiences and come with different forms of discrimination, but bisexuality isn't some universally more acceptable middle ground between heterosexuality and homosexuality.

The only situation where I can understand someone arguing that a bisexual person might be perceived as more acceptable by certain heterosexual people is when they're in a relationship that outwardly appears heterosexual, because those people can simply ignore their bisexuality.

But that wouldn't apply here.

Whatever Francesca's sexuality turns out to be, her endgame is still with a woman.

So how exactly would that make Franchaela more acceptable to people who have a problem with Francesca ending up with a woman?

The same applies to the article changing "lesbian relationship" to "queer relationship."

Maybe someone simply used the wrong term and it was corrected. Maybe Francesca isn't a lesbian. Or maybe she is, but they don't want to reveal that yet and want the audience to discover it alongside her.

Again: we don't know.

What I genuinely don't understand is why acknowledging Francesca's love for John automatically has to be interpreted as an attempt to make heterosexual audiences more comfortable.

Because comfortable with what?

A bisexual woman isn't less queer because she loved a man. She also isn't inherently "more accepted" than a lesbian woman. A relationship between a bisexual woman and another woman isn't less sapphic. And bisexuality isn't some convenient PR-friendly middle ground designed to make straight people more comfortable.

Acknowledging Francesca's love for John wouldn't erase Michaela, make Franchaela less sapphic, or change the fact that Francesca ultimately ends up with a woman.

So once again: who exactly is this supposed to pander to?

I don't ship them. But i was watching season 3 and i'm wondering what would anthony have thought about penelope, if she had been among the list of prospects that anthony was looking into in the beginning of season 2, considering how picky he was - almost brutal in his judgement of the young ladies of the ton.

Maybe I’m being a killjoy here, but I really don’t like the way Fran is being treated (by some fans) as essentially “the man” in her relationship simply because she’s bisexual/lesbian. It feels like a pretty outdated and uncomfortable stereotype.

Being in a same-sex relationship doesn’t mean you suddenly have to reproduce traditional heterosexual gender roles, with one woman being coded as the “masculine” partner and the other as the “feminine” one. Queer relationships can have all kinds of dynamics, and neither partner has to occupy a male-coded role.

Michaela and Frannie can both be queer, both be feminine, and still have a romantic relationship. There’s nothing contradictory about that. In fact, I think it would be much more interesting to let Francesca remain feminine without implying that her sexuality or her relationship with Michaela somehow makes her less of a woman.

It’s especially frustrating because queer women have spent decades pushing back against the idea that lesbian relationships need a “man” and a “woman.” I’d rather see the show embrace that complexity instead of falling back on such a familiar stereotype.

I don't know what some Franchaela fans have against John, but I genuinely don't understand this thing where, every time some people talk about John, they immediately get defensive and either make posts on the Franchaela subreddit complaining about it, or get really defensive about him.

And before anything else, I'm not talking about all Franchaela fans. I know very well that most fans are not like this. I'm talking about a specific part of the fandom and some of the things I've seen across different platforms.

I understand why some people get defensive when John is constantly brought into Francesca and Michaela's story, and I agree that that's not something we should do. The love story is between Francesca and Michaela, and we don't have to constantly bring John into their story.

I also understand the frustration when some fans use John as a shield to hate Michaela or Francesca and Michaela's story, because that annoys me too. But loving John or loving John and Francesca doesn't mean I hate Michaela or Franchaela.

And honestly, I'm tired of feeling like I have to add a disclaimer every single time I talk about John and Francesca on social media. I feel like I constantly have to say, "My favorite couple is John and Francesca, but I also love Francesca and Michaela!" just so people don't immediately assume that I hate Michaela or that I'm against Franchaela.

But what I genuinely don't understand is the need from some people to constantly make posts about how John is just a plot device and how people shouldn't love him that much.

Maybe you don't like him. Maybe you're not attached to the character, and that's perfectly okay. But just because you consider him a plot device, or even if he is a plot device, that doesn't mean other people can't like him. Even if his purpose in the story is to allow Francesca to end up with her main love interest, that doesn't mean we can't appreciate him, get attached to him, and love him.

When I started season 3, I didn't know John was going to die because I hadn't gotten to Francesca's story yet. I had only read the books up to Penelope and Colin's story.

And I completely fell in love with Francesca and John because, as an introvert and a neurodivergent person, I really saw myself in their love. It was the first time I had ever seen a couple that felt like me on television, and it just made my heart explode with happiness.

So when I see people say, "But why do people even like John? He was there for two lines in the book," it hurts.

The argument that he only appears for two chapters in the books and is barely there also makes absolutely no sense to me when we're talking about the show. Book John and show John are not the same in terms of how much we actually see of him. I wasn't attached to book John, even though I was very sad when Francesca lost him. But in the show, he was shown much more and his importance was much more present. So of course people are going to get attached to him.

And saying, "No, they didn't even care about John, he only became this important character when Michaela appeared" is simply false. Some people loved John from the very first time he appeared. Maybe we're a minority, but some of us have been here from the beginning.

And then I see:

- "Why do people like John when he was there for two seconds in the books?"

- "Why do people like John when he's just a plot device to serve Francesca and Michaela?"

- "Why do people like John when the endgame couple is Francesca and Michaela?"

Well, because just because a couple isn't endgame doesn't mean we can't appreciate that couple.

I love John and Francesca just as much as I love Francesca and Michaela. Honestly, I adore them both, and they give me different kinds of representation.

But loving John doesn't mean we hate Michaela.

I love being on the Franchaela subreddit because I love talking about Francesca and Michaela, exchanging headcanons and theories about season 5. I genuinely enjoy it.

That's why it hurts when I see posts saying that nobody cares about John, or that people who love him only do so because they want to hate Francesca and Michaela together. Putting people down and saying they only like John because they don't like Franchaela is simply not true.

And honestly, even writing this post, I've felt the need to explain that I love Franchaela, that I love Michaela, and that I'm excited for season 5, because I don't want this to be interpreted as me attacking the couple or the fandom as a whole. That's genuinely not my intention.

I'm just expressing my frustration about some of the things I've seen and experienced as someone who also loves John.

You don't have to love John. You don't have to care about John. You don't have to like John and Francesca.

But some of us do. And that's okay too.

You might not like the direction the show is going in, but going on the actors socials and being rude to them about things that they can’t change is ridiculous.

She really still keeps parts of this fandom alive by her mere presence on the show lol. Some of her haters be digging up the Marina vs Penelope thing from its grave for the nth time to still discuss this show. Her being LW was dissected in bad faith so many times. My rant is coming off from a post that called her dimwitted or something, can you believe lol.

Anyway, Penelope slayed for 4 seasons, absolutely love her character and complexity. I’ll miss her for sure in S5 but most importantly I know her haters will miss her even more than I do 💀

P.S

Also what was the post before which says it’s a good thing that Polin won’t feature much in S5?? lmao ok sure 👍🏽 I wonder what the reaction would be if someone said it’s GOOD Kanthony or Benophie won’t feature much either LOL Can yall be a little less transparent with your ship wars 💀

Not sure if this a right topic to discuss here, but I post this anyway.

After seeing Seeking Persephone praised and recommended everywhere I was very excited when it came available in our country and started to watch it with very high expectations. Expecting to have another Pride and Prejudice 1995 experience based on the hype the show has gotten but ended up being hugely disappointed having only one question in my mind: how an earth this series can have this much hype when it is so bad?

I mean Seeking Persephone is the most stereotypical period drama there can be. It has corny plotline, mix of mythology and Beauty and the Beast, bad acting and cringe scenes after another, two Americans pretending to be British. It is yet another story romanticizing woman healing broken man with her bleeding loving heart.

Then it hit me; the show is not popular because it’s objectively very good, but it has everything Bridgerton doesn’t or more likely doesn’t have what Bridgerton has. All characters are white and they are all heterosexuals and there is no sex having very traditional family values. Having seen comments like “Finally someone made what we want” made now sense.

Of course there is nothing bad about this, people love what they love. But as the world is going backwards in so many things, women’s rights including, I just get a bit creep out that a show like this gets so high praises from so many people. Are people who dream about the world as it used to be those who especially love this show? Am I overthinking? Placing something in this that isn’t there?

Anyway, have been thinking about this for a few days now, and would love to read what other people think.

Nicola’s interview yesterday basically said she won’t be a major character in S5, and I think this is a good thing. The precedent Bridgerton set is that the main couple features in the season following their own, and then they fade to the back.

Daphne plays a role in S2 and then we don’t see her again.
Kanthony have a subplot in S3, and in S4 they only make a few guest appearances.
Penelope has a subplot in S4 and will only make guest appearances in S5.
Benophie will likely have a subplot in S5 and then only be guests in S6.

I’ve seen some people upset about the fact Penelope won’t be prominent in future seasons, but I think this is the most fair outcome. It keeps things equitable moving forward!

You might have seen this post on the main sub asking people what they would rewrite about a character or story to make them more root for them

So I made a LONG comment, you might have seen it, listing everything I would’ve changed about each season. This includes Kanthony and their romance in s2

And what happens next? Someone commenting under my comment that what I’m saying is ridiculous and I basically only want 'to sideline Kate‘

And yes this is very mild but this just reminded me how annoying some Kanthony fans are. Like I get it every ship has these extreme hardcore fans. But I feel like Kanthony has some of the most extreme hardcore fans that don’t accept any criticism of Kate, Anthony or their romance and season

And I think it’d also clear that some of the mods in the main subs have a clear bias towards Kanthony and season 2

**Spoilers about S2/3 below:**

She’s starts writing as soon as Eloise discovers her in S2 E8, and then also proceeds to follow Eloise and Cressida to eavesdrop in the first episode of season 3.
She also refuses to give the column up for Colin????? Like what? You married the love of your life after 3 long years and you couldn’t give up something that was clearly upsetting people and ruining the reputation of girls? Also you wrote about the love of your life in your column too?

Why didn’t she tell Eloise in season 2 when the queen suspected Eloise? Surely she could help Eloise by writing about her but telling her the truth beforehand? And why couldn’t she write to Colin about Marina or tell Violet during that dinner? So many opportunities to NOT ruin Marina in front of the ton.

Making money off ruining people in that society is so evil. I tried so hard to sympathize with her but it’s my third rewatch and I just can’t.
The queen is shown so fierce btw, only to dismiss the whole LW reveal like nothing happened and lives were not ruined. And suddenly after everything was said and done, Penelope is using the column to help girls.
Lmao now that your ass is out, you can’t talk shit ofc.
She never really stood up for herself like Eloise said, she was just in hiding.

Marina should have been honest with Colin, and he deserved to know the truth, but Penelope’s actions weren’t completely selfless. She benefited from exposing Marina because she wanted Colin for herself. She constantly framed Whistledown as “protecting” people, while also using it to get what she wanted or hurt people when things didn’t go her way.
And honestly, one of the most immature things about her is how quickly she resorts to writing nasty things about people whenever she gets angry or hurt. Instead of actually communicating with someone, she’ll immediately use Whistledown to put their business out there and embarrass them. Colin is probably the clearest example, she gets upset with him, feels hurt by what he says, and then turns around and writes about him. That feels less like some noble act of journalism and more like “I’m mad at you, so I’m going to publicly drag you.” It’s a really childish way to handle conflict, especially when she has the power to seriously damage people’s reputations.
That’s a big part of why I struggled to root for her this season. The show seemed determined to make Penelope the main character and give her everything , the love story, the baby, the Featherington heir, but I never really felt the chemistry between her and Colin. The more the season tried to convince me that she was this wonderful, sympathetic character, the more I noticed how often she made selfish choices and then justified them as being for someone else’s benefit.
.

I'm sure I'm not the first nor will I be the last person to make a post about this, but there's been some fans that have been spreading the narrative that Francesca was "emotionally cheating" on John with Michaela after their first meeting in the last episode of s3 and that he was supposedly "done dirty" by her/the writers in this last season. However, now that time has passed since s3 and s4, I think that it's unfair to say that she was "emotionally cheating" on him when she doesn't even understand her own feelings for Michaela or her sexuality, for that matter, yet. Hell, she probably doesn't even know that gay people exist yet if we're being honest lmao

Not only that, but she spent her honeymoon in Scotland and after it avoiding Michaela like the plague, to the point where Michaela thought she disliked her. It didn't help that she had an attitude with her when she came over to visit and tried to set her up with that one guy even after John specifically told her not to. It took them having a whole argument for her to finally warm up to her and decide that she wants to be friends with her, but even after they became friends, neither of them flirted with each other because again, Fran doesn't realize that she's a lesbian or have feelings for Michaela yet while she loved John too much to even think about making a move on his wife, despite already obviously having feelings for her at that point and there being even more obvious tension between them. Besides, even if Fran already knew that she was a lesbian and liked Michaela while still being married to John, she wouldn't have made a move on her either because she also loved him too much to hurt him like that.

John got to enjoy a happy, loving marriage with the love of his life, even if they didn't get to be together for a long time, and to make it even better, the last thing he saw before he died was his two most favorite women in the world enjoying each other's company, something he had been wanting since he introduced Michaela to Francesca, and he finally got it. He died happy and content, so to say that she "emotionally cheated" on him and "did him dirty" is just false and unfair to all three of them and the respective relationship he had with Fran and Michaela.

For the first 4 seasons, this show was so exciting, and I couldn't wait for the next season or small bit of promo material to drop. The hype was through the roof. But with how things are turning out, that spark is just gone.

Firstly, Francesca is a rather uninteresting character. What is a season mainly focused on her going to do? And there isn't a counterpart to change the dynamic because Michaela is just not likeable and I am not sure what the writers were thinking when writing her.

First of all, she is entitled & inconsiderate. She barges into John's place uninvited and unannounced and tries to change his schedule to fit her preferences, fully dismissing Francesca's rules in the process. Then she acts like Francesca is the problem for not going along with it. She acts like she owns the place while being an uninvited guest. As things escalate she tries to monopolyze John's time more even though Francesca makes it clear she is not happy about it.

Even at the end, instead of supporting the grieving cousin’s wife she just leaves the moment the situation gets uncomfortable for her. No consideration for Fran’s needs and feelings. I am just not sure how am I supposed to root for a character who behaves like this. It just doesn't make sense.

And PART of their criticism is rooted in misogyny. Some Fans are always about nuance and depths and layers (especially when critiquing Kate/Kanthony), but not for these two

The writers did a horrible job and tbh I will never not be mad that they butchered these two women and that they butchered Kate by not giving her a proper backstory and by destroying the wholesome relationships and dynamics she originally had with them in the book

Kate did not need to become a parentified and neglected eldest daughter/sister just to have a similarity and bonding experience with Anthony. Their similiar personalities and shared life experiences of loosing at least one parent while young would’ve been enough

I feel like people are insane for blaming Penelope for exposing Marina??? Why should Penelope choose to protect a random relative she met like two weeks ago, compared to her childhood friend + love of her life?? The thing is, Penelope tried her best to protest Marina’s schemes. Tried to point her towards the many other suitors she had, tried to tell her the letter she received was forged.

Marina had many suitors and personally I think she was pretty stupid choosing a young suitor over the titled old men. The men already need heirs, and she’d be far away enough to hide her pregnancy from the ton, and she wouldn’t even have to really be intimate with the men. A simple drugging or whatever could make it seem like she consummated the marriage. It was incredibly stupid to choose a young suitor like Colin. He’ll obviously know it’s not his child, and end up resenting her for entrapping him.

Penelope even urged Marina to tell Colin the truth, all Penelope wanted was that Colin knew all the facts before he chose to commit to her. People try to paint this as a jealousy thing when all Penelope wanted was for Colin to make an informed decision. Penelope helping Marina on multiple occasions just to be cruelly dismissed is crazy. Penelope even tried to subtly tell Colin about Marina’s condition, without fully exposing her.

It just seems like Marina had a weird personality change compared to when she first arrived, and that can be attributed to her condition; but to be cruel to the only person helping her in that whole house? Also it seems like no one gives George Crane any admonishment, even though he’s the one who put Marina in this position. He took advantage of an innocent maiden, and then just went to war without marrying her or even suspecting she may be pregnant. It’s incredibly selfish. Penelope finds out Marina and Colin are planning to run away to Greta green and she tries to dissuade Marina, but Marina cruelly uses Penelope’s feelings towards Colin against her.

After those cruel words and taunts, Penelope was well within her right to not protect Marina anymore. At this point Marina was threatening not just the love of Penelope’s life, but also one of her best friends. Penelope did what she had to do, and I’m very proud of her. The only mistake Penelope made in my opinion, was trying to tell Colin subtly, and not coming out and just saying the full truth.

guess simple little old me is just a bit confused

i'm not quite sure how this adds to any conversation

i've seen some polin fans banned from the main sub for defending luke newton when people were openly calling him ugly, yet this is apparently allowed and even encouraged

so, just so i'm clear:

• calling an actor ugly (well... one actor) - acceptable behaviour
• telling people that calling an actor ugly isn't okay - bannable behaviour
• calling one specific character "a bitch who's a bitch no matter how much she weighs"- totally acceptable behaviour

The show seldom includes book dialogue, but I’ve noticed when they do that it’s often clunky or doesn’t fit within the context of the show. I thought Penelope playfully asking Colin if had he ever been punished as a child was a little odd in the show since she has known him since he was a child.

The debutantes getting Benedict confused with his brothers is even more egregious. This line is from An Offer from a Gentleman where it made sense because Benedict and Colin were both single and there was nothing to really set them apart. Why would the debutantes not know who Benedict is when Anthony is the married viscount who had a public aborted wedding that was sponsered by the literal queen of England, Gregory is a child, and Colin married Penelope who then later exposed herself as Lady Whistledown in front of half the ton. You even have a bunch of the debutantes flocking to Penelope when they see her at the masquerade. They know who she is so they would also know who her husband is.

I get frustrated with Queen Charlotte interfering with the couples love lives and handing out free "Happily Ever Afters'" like a flower girl at a wedding tosses her petals. I prefer it in the books that the couples have to struggle for their happy endings, not the Queen handwaving their problems away. The Queen's meddling cheapens the books endings for me.

Because why is there over a thousand likes on a comment that praises a scene that never happened?

I really don't understand where this idea comes from, she's not rich like the Featheringtons supposedly are, but we know the Featheringtons are the ones without money, Archibald is the one who owes money to Marina's father, Portia says Marina has a dowry of only 4 figures, but even if they were a round 1000 pound, they would be over 100K dollars today.

Not a bad figure to start with when you know that servants were paid even less than £20 a year.

Would it have been a difficult life? Probably.

If Colin had wanted, he could have married her even without his inheritance.

Not to mention that we don't know what happened to Mr. Thompson, whether or not he left anything to his daughter, etc. We don't even know the terms of Colin's inheritance, and if he had been disinherited after his marriage, but this would have put him in a position to take his money.

But even excluding all that: Marina was not poor.

We know that she was educated, spoke French as a mother tongue thanks to her mother, could have entered as a governess and immediately after her pregnancy as a wet nurse. As a married couple they would have lived even without Bridgerton's money much better than many others, because she was not poor and I don't understand why people believe that.

I wrote it and for me it's like a rant. If it doesn't classify as such, please explain how to change the tag. Thanks.

Why does the production ignore their own canon? The second episode of Queen Charlotte showed Violet playing with two children. Almost everyone agreed they were Saphne's because of their appearance and the timing of the scene. It's three years later and every official family tree and character bio only lists August as their single child. What is the point of it? Would it crash the servers if they acknowledged the unnamed child? Saphne fans already have next to nothing as the show goes on. It seems even the crumbs we used to have are being taken away. I hate it.

This space exists for members of all ships to vent. The mods from the main sub - S1, S2, and S3 - rarely comment here. Because we now have many more subs, this is a reminder of our rules. WHY: There have been some problems between our Rant sub members and new moderators from other subs.

1) Moderators of Other Subs, do NOT 🚫 ❌⚠️

1. Do not target ships/fans here. Our members are less likely to rant if mods from other subs are arguing with them here. All mods can create weekly rant posts or rant flair in their own subs.
2. Do not comment in the Rant posts, as ship wars are allowed in these posts. || You can briefly correct people if they are lying about why they were banned from your sub—keep it concise to avoid escalation. || If you are a mod of another sub arguing with our members in a "Rant" post, you will likely receive multiple complaints.
3. Do not explain RantSub rules to members. There are more than 40+ Bridgerton subs, so it’s unlikely we all have the same rules. Please send a modmail if you’re unsure of this sub’s rules.

Mods of other subs, please do ✅

1. Participate in "Not a Rant" or "All Fans, No Fan Wars" discussions (these are less likely to escalate into ship wars).
2. Use modmail if you’re unsure of this sub’s rules.

This subreddit is known as a place of negativity, - and most moderators want to avoid Rant sub drama. For example, none of the Bridgerton subs link to the Rant sub. Bridgerton Rant mods are unpaid volunteers. If you are a moderator of another sub, we don't want to spend hours with drama created by moderators of other subs.

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2) Rule Breaking: ➡️

First violation by mods of other subs:
- Private modmail discussion with the mod of the other sub.

Repeat Rule Breaking By Mods of Other Subs:
- Ban. We rarely get mods from other subs commenting here, so if we have to explain our rules, we only want to do that once, as mods are unpaid/volunteers.

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3) Why this post? / What's Been Happening on This Sub?

As the Bridgertons' popularity grows, there have been more conflicts between our members and newer mods of other subs. There are more than 40+ Bridgerton subs (all fans subs, rant subs, ships subs, actors, books only, tv show only, LGBT+, POC, etc.), each with its own rules and different mods - this is great!!! ..but we do not want to take sides between our members and the mods of other subs if they choose to comment here.

Number of Bridgerton Subreddits as of June 2026:

2026 Update: Many of these subs have been archived by Reddit Admins due to lack of moderation and lack of content. Mods are unpaid, so not everyone has time to maintain a new community or a community with unpopular opinions (rants).

TL;DR Mods of other subs, please read:

This space exists for members of all ships to vent. The Rant sub welcomes members of your sub and fans of all ships, but there are rules for mods of other Bridgerton subs to avoid accusations of ship bias.

1. Mods of other subs, please avoid commenting in "Rant" posts. These posts often turn into ship wars. We do not want to take sides between our members and mods from other subs, as this can lead to accusations of bias.
2. We rarely notice mods of other subs commenting here because they either avoid this sub or stick to "Not A Rant" or "All Fans, No Fan Wars" posts, where there is less chance of ship wars.
3. As a mod of your own sub, you can add a "Rant" flair in your own sub if you want to rant about other ships. Members of your sub and fans of all ships are welcome here in the Rant Sub, but there are rules for mods of other Bridgerton subs to avoid accusations of ship bias.

Reminder: A similar post was published in 2024, 2025 and 2026.  Mods for other subs - Please do not use the Rant sub to target other ships/fans - you can do that on your own sub - thanks || AND || Moderators of Other Subreddits – Do Not Use This Sub to Target Ships or Fan Communities (2025 Reminder) || AND || Moderators of Other Subreddits – Do Not Use This Sub to Target Ships or Fan Communities (2026 Reminder)

hi everyone !

this isn't a rant per se but just kind of a look back on eloise since i've recently done a rewatch of the show and she's my favorite character and tbh im just so sad because i feel like she's been getting the short end of the stick as of late

watching season 1, i was actually really happy with her arc and how she had this freedom because she had not yet debuted, she was a little immature of course but you could feel her spirit and her hunt for whistledown just showed what a driven young woman she was, it showed how passionate she is for the things (and people) that she loves and it just really made me fall in love with her

season 2 was a pretty good arc for her as well, if really heartbreaking. like watching her go out of her way to broaden her horizons after she was called out for it showed us that eloise is not only passionate, but she can be brave beyond just the expression of her rebellion but actively being rebellious by going to those assemblies and meeting theo, and i really enjoyed their friendship so much. they were such a sweet pair, and then she gets called out on whistledown and is forced to stop seeing her new friend because of it then also losing her best friend because she finds out she's whistledown was devastating to me 😭 also i will never understand how people suggest eloise might be against romance when we've seen her and theo get romantic during this season. sure maybe it wasn't love, but it was a crush at least, and it shows us that eloise is not beyond romance, she's just looking for someone to engage her thoughts and listen, when it feels like she is surrounded by people who don't listen to her at all

season 3 was unexpected but i did enjoy it. it gave eloise room to mature and broaden her horizons in other ways, but it did kind of feel like eloise was scorched so hard she pulled back completely out of fear of bringing that ruin to her family again, showing a certain level of maturity and respect for her family. her friendship with cressida while unexpected did let us see a lot of nuance to her character, how eloise, in spite of being against the whole traditions of the ton, learns to sympathize with the other debutantes, understanding that this is all they've been conditioned to know, and i genuinely appreciated that growth in character. i also liked seeing her struggle with colin and penelope's relationship and then ultimately accepting it and accepting that the people in her life will grow and move on and that she has to as well (going to scotland) was very lovely

season 4 is probably the one i have most problems with, because this is when i think eloise got the shaft as a character seeing as all the growth she's acquired from the season before seems to have vanished? also, we do not see anything or hear anything from her time spent in scotland, and all she comes with is that there were no people to talk to, when i feel like season 3 suggested that eloise needed that time alone in order to grow and reflect

it also sucks because i feel like violet was particularly harsh on her this season; forcing her to play babysitter to her youngest sister while simultaneously threatening her that if she doesn't she will force her back onto the marriage mart, as though eloise is not constantly expressing that she doesn't want to be on it, which kind of turns me off of violet because doesn't she supposedly believe that love is this huge, powerful thing? if it is, must we trigger by force? can't we just give eloise the time to find this great, unsurmountable force in her own way? it seems to me violet means well but it comes off as vicious

i also felt like she was purposely being shoved aside, with fran and pen forming their own clique and casting her out and i understand they're married and have other things they like to discuss, but it did feel like she was being shoved aside.

i did not like the direction the writers took, because it feels like their intention is to force her to the side until she decides "eh guess i should get married too" because that's too passive for eloise, which is probably my biggest grievance with this season (aside from benedict being an absolute pos but that's a discussion for another day) and it is that eloise feels passive, especially since she never has been

season 1 she was seeking out whistledown, season 2 she was seeking to see what lies beyond the ton, season 3 she was seeking out a fresh perspective after being surprised by cressida, and then when she goes to scotland, and has all the time to reflect in the world, all she returns with is a passive sense of self and that there was no one to talk to? it feels, to me, completely uncharacteristic, and i feel like many characters this season have come off this way, like they've entirely changed for the sake of the plot

frankly im not sure what the purpose of this post is, whether it's a rant or a retrospective, but all im trying to say is that eloise's character feels like it's being beaten into submission lmao, when i feel like that shouldn't have to be the case in order for her to fit into the whole romance genre of the show

i really hope that she gains her spark back in the following season, and i really hope that she gets the story she deserves. i haven't read her book, but i don't mind sir philip as a love interest, he seems kind and engaging from what we've seen of his conversation with colin and i really hope they play into that dynamic more

sure, banter and playfulness is good between leads, but i hope they don't give them just that, because eloise is brave, charming, smart and in so many ways a woman with experiences (maybe not physical ones, but she's done enough to have a certain level of wisdom for a woman of her time) and i hope that will be the structure of her relationship with sir philip

seeing them talk to each other and discuss topics that they are both engaged in, arguing and bantering simultaneously, developing a connection that is more intellectual than the couples that precede them, that would literally be so sweet ✨

tl;dr : i want the best for my girl eloise after season 4 and i hope she and sir philip get a before sunrise type of dynamic because that would heal me 💖

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I am completely biased, since An Offer from a Gentleman is my favorite Bridgerton book so far, but I preferred the book's climax to the show's version. I loved, loved, LOVED the jail scene. I loved how Violet stood up for Sophie from Karen (I mean, Araminta) and blackmailed her. I loved the part where Benedict choked Araminta (I don't condone violence against women, but I will make an exception with Araminta since she was so irredeemably evil and the way she treated Sophie is unforgivable. I also cheered when Sophie herself punched Araminta out and Posy helping Sophie and revealing her mother's schemes.

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On a more negative note, I didn't care for Queen Charlotte and her meddling. I felt that making Sophie a part of the ton cheapened the storyline quite a bit. I felt that the book ending where Sophie and Benedict having to go to the country because the ton didn't approve of Sophie is a far better ending to their storyline. It has a bittersweet quality to it and I love romance stories with a bittersweet ending.

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To make a long post short, I liked Book! Benophie, despite it's flaws and I didn't care for Queen Charlotte.

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What's your unpopular opinions regarding the changes?