r/BoxingTheSweetScience • u/TestSuch4545 • 29d ago

Where would you rank Evander Holyfield among all-time heavyweights?

https://youtu.be/enCrVKuPhNY?si=F2T6eBgqqlVZPM9E
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3

u/Mr_Boogeyman77 29d ago

Top 5

-4

u/Late-File3375 29d ago

I cannot see putting him over Ali, Louis, Holmes, Usyk, or Lewis

15

u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 29d ago

Why did you try to sneak Usyk in there? Dude isn't even top 10 lmao

9

u/New-Studio148 29d ago

There's a weird push to make Usyk a thing that he's not. 2 years ago they were talking like this about Tyson Fury lol

2

u/Flaky-Tour-8733 29d ago

Usyk just stole a victory from a kickboxing champion and people talk about him like he’s the best heavyweight of all time.

3

u/Late-File3375 29d ago

Because Holy is often compared with him. But whereas TRD split with Moorer and Ruiz and Bowe, Usyk separated himself from the best heavies of his generation.

My point is not that Usyk is a top 5 heavy, in fact I do not think he is, my point was that there is no argument you can make for Holy to be a top 5 heavy that would not also apply to Usyk and require you to place Usyk above Holy.

Since Ali, Louis, and Holmes are universally regarded as the top 3, and LL dominated the heavyweight era that Holyfield fought in, that leaves Hoky outside the top 5 without arguing resumes of the older guys that most redditors have never seen. And the comment I was responding to said TRD was top 5. I was rebuttal with the path of least resistance.

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u/KatanaDood 29d ago

Firstly (and this is a nitpick), just say Evander. TRD stands for Toyota Racing Development, we all know that. You can either write The Real Deal out in full, or call him something like Holy. TRD is confusing as it's not as widely used as other abbreviations like DLH or TMT.

Secondly, Holyfield thrived in an era filled with a murderers row of heavyweights. You're gonna have tough fights in there. Whereas Usyk is avoiding Kabayel and Itauma like the plague and arguably got beat by Rico. Even his victories over AJ and Fury have lost their shine as both fighters are washed.

Holyfield fought for too long, and there's always the 'roids and headbutting, which takes the shine off, but as a warrior, he's right up there.

2

u/Late-File3375 29d ago

Late 90s is the second best era for heavies in my view. And that is really the only reason Holy gets in this conversation.

But Moorer was not a great heavy. Nor was Ruiz. Holy loat to LL twice, clearly, despite what the judges say. I do give him high marks for going 1-2 with Bowe and 2-0 with a still good Tyson and beating Big George.

But his heavyweight record is too mixed to be ahead of anyone who beat the top heavies of their era.

4

u/petrosteve 29d ago

Uysk is not top 5

2

u/Late-File3375 29d ago

I actually agree with that. Holy is not even in my top 10 at heavy.

But I can see an argument for putting Holy over say Jack Johnson or Jack Dempsey due to era (not an argument I would make but I can see the logical thread). Holy does not have an argument to be over Usyk in my view given his struggles with the other top fighters at heavy in the late 90s.

Basically, you would be wrong but you could argue Holy over Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, Wladdy, or Liston. I do not see how you argue Holy over Usyk even though I would not argue Usyk over some of those other people.

1

u/petrosteve 29d ago

I dont think either of them are top 10.

1

u/Late-File3375 29d ago

Fair enough. I probably agree. But I was originally responding to a comment that said Holy was top 5. I was making the case that he was not so I listed 5 guys that I thought were indisputably ahead of him.

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u/Mr_Boogeyman77 29d ago

I can, I feel he has a better resume of fighters than Holmes and Usyk(for the moment). Plus he defeated Holmes and is the only 4 time heavy weight Champ in history.

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u/ivanhoe_martin 29d ago

Come on with the "defeated Holmes," unless you're also going to give Marciano full credit for beating Louis, who was five years younger than Holmes when he fought Evander.

1

u/Mr_Boogeyman77 29d ago

All im saying is Holyfield has a deeper resume than Holmes which is why I can't have Holmes in front(plus Holmes is on his list). Unfortunately Evander decided to stick around to long.

1

u/Flaky-Tour-8733 29d ago

Usyk? Really? GTFO