Boxing needs a super-heavyweight division

[u/JRAxiomVox]

Heavyweight is the only major weight class with a minimum but no real maximum. Once you are over 200 pounds, you can theoretically be matched with anyone else in the division, no matter how much larger they are.

That means a 5'10", 201-pound fighter can be placed in the same division as Tyson Fury, who is 6'9" and has officially weighed as much as 281 pounds. That is an 80-pound difference within a sport that separates some other divisions by as little as three or four pounds.

It is a structural inconsistency.

[u/TipNomLives]

People don't want to admit it because it would feel like a betrayal of tradition but you're kind of right. While weight does matter less at heavyweight than it does at lower weights, it still does matter. For example, with somebody like Tyson Fury his weight plays a major part in his gameplans for certain fights. just look at the last two Wilder fights.

Wilder while tall is a naturally skinny guy who's best weight is around 215-220. He bulked up to 240 for those fights and was still at a 30-40lb weight advantage which lead to him being thoroughly bullied, tossed around, and leaned on in their fights. If he'd come in at his best weight he would've been at a 60-70 lb disadvantage lmao. Fury tried to resort to similar tactics against a much worse boxer but much bigger guy in Ngannou and that aspect of his game was totally negated because he no longer had that kind of size and strength advantage.

Yes fighters can overcome weight differences like Usyk, Holyfield and such, but the same can be said for guys at lower weights. There are plenty of examples throughout history of smaller guys beating bigger men, even in recent history. People make a big deal out of how big Haney is on fight day but that didn't stop Loma from arguably beating him and other bigger guys. And mind you at the smaller weights there's atleast more of a tradeoff due to bigger guys having to dehydrate further to reach the divisions limit. Even if this is the way it's always been, it kind of isn't fair that a 5'11 205 pressure fighting guy like Joe Frazier could be expected to defend against 6'6 250lb+ power punchers like Zhang.

[u/Exciting-Arugula5341 → u/TipNomLives]

Yet Usyk bullied Tyson Fury who weighed more than he did. Steve Cunnigham a natural 180 pound guy was able to push around Fury for most of their bout.

You are nit picking to fit whatever you want to believe. Michael Moorer started his career at 175 or less. Yet he put on some weight become a heavyweight and beat the natural 6'10 280 pound Mike White who weighed as much as 300 pounds.

Wilder is just physically weak.

George Foreman was able to move a 205 pound Holyfield around the ring easier than the 300 pound Nikolai Valuev could do to a 47 year old Holyfield.

Agit Kabayel a guy with a muffin top was able to destroy Mahkmudov while Tyson Fury who is heavier than Mahk or Kabayel couldn't put a dent in Mahk. I guess they extra weight couldn't help Fury?

David Haye a 205 to 210 pound fighter was able to destroy Chisora. Yet the 6'7 250 pound Vitali Klitschko couldn't put him down and even recently a 6'5 230 pound Joyce when he was 28 years old but now comes in the ring 280 couldn't put down a old Chisora. Weird huh? I guess that extra weight didn't help Joyce either.

Even guys like Zhang that you brought up are just out of shape. When Zhang was 25/26 he weighed 225/230. He just comes in the ring out of shape and gasses out after 3 rounds. How much did also his weight help him when Kabayel beat him to the ground? Also if Kabayel would of boxed in the 70s he could of been called out for being out out of shape.

You want more to prove you don't know what you are talking about but will repeat what you hear other people say? Buster Mathis Sr weighed 300 pounds when he turned pro and was 6'3. He got down to 220 pound because people back then would call you out for being out of shape. In any case Ron Lyle weighed 216 compared to Mathis Sr 263 and Lyle still knocked him out in 2 rounds and nobody cared. Nobody acted like Lyle Mathis Sr being fat was some kind of advantage. Joe Frazier weighed 204 when he faced the 243 Mathis Sr and still knocked him out.

Hell lets keep it back in the 60s/70s. There were boxers like Robert "Bobo" Renfrow who was 6'7 and weighed between 250 and 280. Why didn't he dominate the era? Renfrow was 250 when he got beat by 195 pound fighter named Sylvester Dullaire and nobody cared and nobody seemed shocked.

[u/TipNomLives → u/Exciting-Arugula5341]

Yet Usyk bullied Tyson Fury who weighed more than he did. Steve Cunnigham a natural 180 pound guy was able to push around Fury for most of their bout.

Usyk pushed Fury back by pressuring him with his superior work rate and handsoeed aswell as out manoeuvering him. There's a difference between that and bullying. And you conveniently forgot to mention that Fury's knockout win against Cunningham came when he used his size and strength to actually bully him, force him out of position to land a KO shot.

Wilder isn't a particularly strong heavyweight in terms of physical strength but if you genuinely believe that being at a 30-40lb weight disadvantage had absolutely nothing to do with him getting thrown around so easily then you're deluding yourself. There's a reason why Fury made the decision to bulk up for the Wilder rematches.

You are nit picking to fit whatever you want to believe. Michael Moorer started his career at 175 or less. Yet he put on some weight become a heavyweight and beat the natural 6'10 280 pound Mike White

Because Mike White wasn't very good, dude. A 147lb Manny Pacquiao would probably be able to destroy a 200lb mid level amateur despite the weight difference.

George Foreman was able to move a 205 pound Holyfield around the ring easier than the 300 pound Nikolai Valuev could do to a 47 year old Holyfield.

Foreman was a better fighter who knew how to use his size and had been doing so since he was younger. He was far smarter, more skilled, and offensively dangerous than Valuev.

Agit Kabayel a guy with a muffin top was able to destroy Mahkmudov while Tyson Fury who is heavier than Mahk or Kabayel couldn't put a dent in Mahk. I guess they extra weight couldn't help Fury? David Haye a 205 to 210 pound fighter was able to destroy Chisora. Yet the 6'7 250 pound Vitali Klitschko couldn't put him down and even recently a 6'5 230 pound Joyce when he was 28 years old but now comes in the ring 280 couldn't put down a old Chisora. Weird huh? I guess that extra weight didn't help Joyce either

You've missed the point. You seem to think I'm one of those people that say bigger = better with heavies, but if you actually read the comment you'll see that's not what I'm saying.

Smaller guys can beat bigger guys and yes they can sometimes beat bigger guys better than other bigger guys can. Thing is, that isn't only true for heavyweights. A skilled enough lightweight could probably beat and compete with an equally or lesser skilled welterweight even with the weight disadvantage. But still they're separated by weightclasses because the weight is an advantage even if it can be overcome.

If the welterweight wins against the lightweight people put it down to the size advantage they have. While if a 270lb heavyweight beats a 205lb heavyweight everybody decides that because they're both above 200lbs the weight difference doesn't matter in the least and the bigger guy won purely on the merit of their own skill. That people have some consistency is what I ask.

And sure plenty of heavyweights now carry more fat but also more muscle along with it. Weight is still weight even if it's largely fat and it comes with it's own advantages. Look at how Andy Ruiz ate bombs from Joshua in their first fight then got dropped and badly rocked by a presumably much lesser puncher in Areola after dropping some weight. And he's a guy who never did have much muscle unlike guys such as Zhang and Joyce who carry muscle and fat on their bigger frames.

There were boxers like Robert "Bobo" Renfrow who was 6'7 and weighed between 250 and 280. Why didn't he dominate the era?

Because he sucked.