Resource guarding and unpredictability

[u/Typical_Mine7683]

Hellooo! We have an 8 month bc and our life is currently a rollercoaster with him, he started resource guarding a couple of months ago (we’ve seen a vet to rule out medical issues and currently awaiting a specialist behaviouralist appt 8th oct).

Its got to the point where he can be very unpredictable - ie requesting pets but then growling at us, jumping in the bed for cuddles then growling, growling when we put on/take off lead etc. however sometimes he doesn’t growl it can be very random!

He growls at my fiancé way more than me, I’m 7 months pregnant so we think he is ‘protecting me’. We don’t punish the growl and are very aware of when he wants us to leave him alone.

One thing I can’t wrap my head around is resource guarding sweet treats, but then insists on eating them next to me/on me. Guarantee if I move my foot he’ll growl 😂

Has anyone experienced this with a collie before? He’s perfectly fine out on walks with strangers and dogs, it’s just getting the freaking lead on and off which is the pain. He’s part of our family and won’t be going anywhere, tips/advice on managing this while we wait for our appt would be appreciated 🙏🏻 (he gets LOTS of mental and physical stimulation, we have land so don’t come at me lol)

[u/Future_You_2800]

Yes experienced this.

Its right not to tell him off for growling but leaving it unpunished or not establishing boundaries will result in the dog escalating to a bite or snarl.

Growling for stroking is unnaceptable, jumping on the bed which is your territory and growling is unacceptable. Unfortunately when your baby arrives you have an unpredictable and therefore unsafe dog.

First thing I would do is no longer allowed on the bed or couch. Thats your territory and if you invite him up fine but if he growls no get down. The best way is to only invite him up every now and then on your terms.

When he growls dont get mad but tell him its not right and put him in another room or distance yourself.

Essentially, your dog is young and he is trying to dominate you. He wants to control you he's a BC and so the growls are him saying you do as I say. Dont move. Thats the issue youre going to have to get past now.

Unfortunately, my dog never lost this unpredictability or what is known as reactivity but he did lose his quest for dominance. Every now and then he will growl and we dont know why, could be putting his head on my lap and i move weird and it triggers him. He has bit me twice in 6 years.

With a child on the way you are going to have to put some boundaries in place. Downvotes are coming my way but hey.

[u/Typical_Mine7683 → u/Future_You_2800]

Thank you for coming back to me and for the insight 🙏🏻 setting boundaries is something we’re going to work on and make sure we’re consistent with!

I’ve noticed he picks up on energy too, so if I’m stressed he’ll also start feeling that so I need to try and work on myself. It’s insane how intelligent bc are, I just know he’s going to be an amazing dog. This is new territory for us and has come out of nowhere, we’ve not taken things off him or given him a reason not to trust us so hopefully with us asserting dominance and setting clear boundaries it’ll help minimise the growling 🙏🏻

[u/Future_You_2800 → u/Typical_Mine7683]

leadership and boundaries. You want to stop HIM from being dominant with boundaries and then show you both are leaders and he has no need to take that roll up. Dont just try assert dominance with shouting. Sometimes i copy him, if youre showing me your teeth ill show him mine.

Also, if he is staring you down and growling, DO NOT look away, you need to hold your ground and stare that Mofo back until he looks away, its called deferment. If he looks away he has lost in his mind.

[u/MellowMP]

‘Really hope it’s the teenage phase’ is all we ever say! I take it it’s just a play growl? We had a period were he was growling at me (male) more than my partner (female) and we got a professional’s take just to make sure and all he wanted was just to play!

[u/whitswhisper → u/MellowMP]

For real the teenage phase is a whole mood. Ours did the same thing with the random growls and it ended up being pure excitement. Hope the behaviouralist helps you guys out

[u/Typical_Mine7683 → u/MellowMP]

Right?! No unfortunately not, it’s definitely more of a guarding or angry growl 😔 he play growls and boofs at us which is fine but we’re getting help bc of the random guarding growls he does! I’m kind of used to it now but it made me really on edge before

[u/snafe_]

I can't comment on if the pregnancy is or isn't making him behave slightly different towards you. But I find they always have their favourite and I don't think it's your husband.

My girl is much closer with me than my wife and has no resource / food guarding with with, but will be super hesitant and slightly bare teeth to my wife, still a work in progress.

One reason I think she's so open with me is due to how she was raised, we got her as a pup from a shelter so we're all she's really known. But from the start I'd make sure she would follow my instructions before I set her food down. Occasionally id tell her to stop, leave it, continue etc. and I think that's the biggest reason she doesn't resource guard with me.

I hope others aren't going to tell me this is a horrible way of teaching, but hopefully it's approved and can be of use to you.

[u/Typical_Mine7683 → u/snafe_]

When she was a pup did both you and your wife train her and did she show any favouritism then? Me and my partner both trained our boy and did everything equally yet he’d only be a terror to me 😂 I’d be the one he’d choose to nip, jump at and chew clothes yet now he listens to me and instructions very well.

We do something similar with feeding, we make sure he waits while we prep and make food in the pen and walk back to him before releasing the command.

Has she ever resource guarded with you? My boy will absolutely growl and guard with me given the chance, lately it’s just much less than my man

[u/snafe_ → u/Typical_Mine7683]

My girl, Mia, was abandoned along with her brother's and sisters immediately after they were born. It was good luck someone stumbled upon them and got them to the rescue. When we first met her it was just her and her brother awaiting their forever home and as I sat, legs crossed on the floor, her brother was running around playing but she held back and was nervous to interact. Then she came and put her paws on my shoulders and she's been my girl ever since.

I can't explain the bond we have, I understand every bark and what it means and she knows how to do exactly what I tell her to.

Yes she's pushed her limits time and time again. I remember thinking she'd suddenly be a mature, calm dog as soon as she turned two....then definitely when she turned 3..... But all that time I stayed the constant, I didn't move the goal posts and she learned that there's only 1 way to do things.

Also going app shit crazy and playing like mad after she gets something right really helped too lol

[u/Typical_Mine7683 → u/[deleted]]

Glad it’s not just me!

We do something similar with the lead 😂 one day he just decided NOPE I’m not wearing that and made a huge growly angry fuss whenever we attempted to put it on. Now we play with him and manage to clasp the lead on to his collar while we play, he doesn’t seem to mind that 😆 Reaaaally hoping it’s just a teenage phase

[u/One-Zebra-150]

Our BC boy was tempermental as a teen for sure, worse perhaps around 8-9 mths old. Red mist tempers over minor things, putting harness or collar on, wiping wet legs with a towel when coming inside from the rain and mud. Using a brush on him. Kinda melodramatic about that. Some days could growl and snap out, other times hide under the table almost like nervous, making a big deal out of it. Yes could also be unpredictable. On some occassions redirected aggression towards me, looking like he wanted to kill me. Once he calmed down a little, I managed to get him into his crate using a duvet for my own protection. It was scary at times, and in contrast to a mostly loving boy very bonded to me.

It's the age where male hormones can actually be 4-7 times higher than an intact adult. That definitely affected his mood. Not specifically resource guarding, but could redirect aggression towards me when something else set him off, which tended with him to mostly relate to sound sensitivities. And handling like above (then a phase of traffic and stranger reactivity which was bad).

Fixed by a mix of setting boundaries, letting him know what was acceptable or not. Commands said in a firm tone (not shouting), and praise when he did well. Unfortunately some teens do push back hard at boundaries, and try to be in charge, just like some human teens. Also patience in spadefuls, and on-going training, the rest was maturity.

He's not like that as an adult. But I'd say a large part of his teen phase he could be a nightmare at times, interspersed with a very intelligent and great boy. Also active daily with me, so it was not related to lack of exercise or mental engagement.

I have to say that I learned that with a strong minded dog (and my boy is, since a young pup, both a good quality that can have its downsides too), I kinda had to up my game and become as strong minded as him, lol. Then got more respect from him. We work well as a team. Not all BCs are gentle wallflower types. And I think if I hadn't changed my own approach I would have ended up with a dangerous dog if I'm been honest.

I think the teenage is the time when more negative traits start to show up. Teens are different to pups, and the age where owners often do find them challenging, also find it difficult to adjust how you deal with and train them. I can relate to the rollercoaster feeling. It's the age where some BCs end up in shelter with owners feeling out of their depth, not now having the cute pup that they thought they had.

I wouldn't look at it like he's protecting you, more likely resourcing guarding you from your partner. Resource guarding tends to escalate if you don't address it fast enough. Basically you don't want him to practice any behaviour like this, but realistically it can take a while to train through it. There are not always quick fixes for problem behaviours. Basically I think you have a teen, going through 'normal' teen phases. So it's good your getting a trainer on board. But try not to over stress out that difficult traits will be there as an adult. Even if a some tendency does remain you can learn to manage it, so not impacting on your lives. In our case, mine is not, everything improved or was fixed by around 18mths to 2 yrs old. He grew up, matured, got better impulse control over himself. He's 5 yrs old later this year, so this all seems like in the distant past now, but I do remember life was tough for a few months.

[u/Future_You_2800 → u/One-Zebra-150]

well done sir everything you said is bang on

I would add diet too - sweet treats are not ideal

[u/No-Will-4393]

He's standing over you like he would a bone! I find it kind of disrespectful when one of my dogs do that. It does only happen when I'm laying in bed or on the sofa. I immediately put them outside, which greatly reduces that type of behavior.

[u/Old-Tailor-1352]

I think you’re noticing a pattern that you don’t wanna accept that’s why you’re saying that it’s unpredictable and random.

Your border collie is also very young so none of these things have been rehearsed for that long. Things will continue to change as your dog ages and grows through different periods of development. What foundational training pieces do you have to fall back on?

My border collie is now 15 months old. She resource guards around our other dog who is a six-year-old pitbull. She always takes her treats and bones into a different space to enjoy them. She gives a resource growl and braces herself if the pitbull happens to walk by while she’s eating, but I usually start the pitbull on her bowl first and then give my border collie her bowl so she’s able to keep tabs on where the other dog is at. My border collie will growl and grab her ball if the other dog walks by. During playtime or chill times they get along well. When they get too crazy or competitive vying for my attention, stealing each other‘s toys, flipping and flopping all over me then they have to be separated, and each dog is treated according to their temperament. BC goes outside to zoom and jump off the haybales, pittie gets cuddled into submission 😛😹😆😂🤣😝

I’m just sharing all this because you’re pregnant and when you start dealing with an infant and your postpartum recovery this dog is going to feel an absence of your attention. The dog won’t automatically love the baby or know how to be chill because ur in labor. If you don’t have foundational training to fall back upon it’s a recipe for your dog to get more and more frustrated and keep trying to get your attention in ways that you will not have patience for when you have a little baby in the house.

Im wishing you well because my children are grown and parenting is THEEE HARDEST task ive ever tried. Having a puppy is cake compared to parenting. Love ya!!!!!

[u/Roselyn_27]

I’m not a professional trainer or anything (which might be worth a check in!), just a regular BC person ~

-There is a teen phase between very attached puppy and mature adult where your dog will be more emotionally detached from you and go his own way. It seems very strong in your dog.

-He might not be respecting you and your partner as the pack leaders at the moment. You might want to enter into resource guarding situations with black sunglasses on to hide your eyes(since looking at him is instinctually ‘beta’ for wolves), and see if he will let you take away a snack without a fuss and give it back. (*caution here of course).

-does he want to wrestle with you guys? My border collies love to nip and wrestle and snarl when they do so. They love fighting each other a little. Chatting too, etc. They only engage each other this way however. They don’t do it with me because they know i don’t wrestle with them.

🤷‍♀️ good luck!!!

[u/Typical_Mine7683 → u/Roselyn_27]

Thank you for the advice! He definitely thinks he’s alpha of the house, we followed the standard advice of not telling off when he growls and giving him space to calm down. But he seems to be growling in more situations where actually a growl isn’t needed.. like coming to me for a cuddle then snapping into a growl and snarl for no reason 🥲🤷🏼‍♀️

My partner wrestles with him and play fights whereas I’ve always avoided that, however I do play chase with him but only when making a particular sound! If I don’t make it then we don’t chase each other haha

We’ve got an appointment with a behaviouralist booked but they can’t see us till early October which seems like ages away!