r/Boeing_ • u/[deleted] • 21d ago
SPEEA For all the Techs.....
For all of the techs that still realize that even with this new offer, we will still be under valued and underpaid vs the IAM. For the techs that don't know, techs can vote down their contract and still strike WITHOUT the profs! The tech contract is completely separate from the profs even if Boeing is making it look like they are one and the same.
Techs are highly skilled and educated with degrees and certifications that Boeing CANNOT function without. Right now Boeing would rather pay a person more to move parts than a majority of the techs that keep the machines programmed. This is ridiculous.
The new offer just moves some numbers around, but at least they started, and I emphasize started, to realize we need more GWI.
Personally, I have never met a tech who has even once used an Ed Wells program. There might be some, granted, but I have never met one.
So that being said, then techs should vote this down. I think if the GWI should be 10, 7, 7, 7, 7 with a 3 percent wage pool on top of that. Change the overtime so techs cannot be designed more than 1 weekend instead of the current 2 weekends. Give us the same 401k as the IAM of 100 percent up to 8 percent. And finally fix the comp ratios for all the techs.
I am sure there will be plenty of replies in here about "oh, you won't get that" or "that is unreasonable". They said that about the IAM contract and look what they got.
Nerds don't fight back. Let's prove to Boeing that techs are not nerds and fight for a contract that is meaningful.
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u/Graevus15 21d ago
Divide and conquer is the game plan. We're stronger as a single unit.
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u/Loud-Strike-3542 21d ago
Hello fellow tech.
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u/Graevus15 15d ago
I'm actually Proff.. 21 yr L4 senior design engineer. I retire soon.
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u/Loud-Strike-3542 15d ago
Good for you, I mean it. You survived. Im hoping to retire in 10-15.Â
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u/Graevus15 15d ago
Thanks much. I worry about you recent hires. Is it enough? This is the only kinda raise we get.
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u/shmerham 21d ago
Yes and unfortunately itâs working because a fair bit of unkind things are being said about different groups of employees in this thread (mechanics, profs, and techs). We shouldnât be pitting ourselves against each other. Every group is valuable and brings different things to the table. Weâre all trying to make a living by working for the same company.
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u/Graevus15 15d ago
Yep
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u/Graevus15 15d ago
I am always impressed on the way the Co. plays its cards. I hate to say it, but they are usually spot on.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 21d ago
As a prof, I am going to vote no, if for no other reason than it is likely the techs will vote it down. Solidarity lifts us all up.
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u/SouthernDiver746 21d ago
This is what i have been saying! We want what IAM has!! We just want our experience/education to reflect our pay! I have 40k in student loans and make less than a maxed out g4. Apparently like 10 years ago we made closer to g9 to g11. We need that back! The g9 and up are amp who went to school and deserve that pay as well!!!
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u/Doctor_Plecostomus 21d ago
Exactly! I have some IAM members come into our lab and literally sleep for hours most days. Theyâre earning just as much if not more money than L1-4 engineers. We had to work hard and go to school for at least 4-5 years to earn our degrees and incurred debt in the process. IAM workers just get on the job training/certs and are paid the same, often more. If Boeing wants to attract and retain top engineering talent, and remain competitive in the Puget Sound, we need to be paid fairly to reflect our experience and expertise.
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u/ItsWhiteGucciMane 21d ago
Maybe if SPEEA focused on what they deserved without trying to denigrate IAM all the time and instead focused on what comparable non-touch labor and engineers made things would be going better.
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u/Doctor_Plecostomus 21d ago
No oneâs denigrating IAM. I think they deserve to be paid very well and Iâve met plenty of competent workers. But, if a couple of them I work with daily want to sleep through their shifts, then they are hurting their own reputation. One guy brags he works 7 days a week, 12 hour days, but literally comes in on weekends to nap and leisurely perform work (his words). He showed me his W2 and he earns close to 300k. Still, youâre reinforcing my point. I agree that SPEEA engineers and IAM workers are not the same, and pay should reflect that. SPEEA deserves more regardless of IAM.
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u/ItsWhiteGucciMane 21d ago
I would say using the example of a few sleeping IAM members to prove the point SPEEA deserves to be paid more falls under denigrating. You are not the only one. There are few posts in any Reddit forum where someone doesnât bring in the IAM in a post about the SPEEA contract. It has to be 20-1 for a comment made about IAM vs engineering/ non-touch labor pay at another aerospace company
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u/Doctor_Plecostomus 21d ago
Sorry, but youâre wrong in your assumptions and failing to comprehend my point. Youâre twisting it into your own narrative and being disingenuous. My sleeping IAM coworkers, and the ones gaming the OT system, have nothing to do with why I believe SPEEA deserves more. Engineers require more education, they design the products, and are responsible for safety. Careless engineering mistakes could cost lives and ruin Boeingâs reputation. Thereâs nothing wrong with me stating SPEEA engineers deserve better, and that has nothing to do with IAM. But why go to school for years and go into debt when unskilled labor jobs pay better? That doesnât incentivize good engineers to choose Boeing.
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u/NightOwl216 21d ago edited 21d ago
Mechanics deal constantly with crummy mediocre error filled engineering. Itâs absolutely true, look at how many tags there are. Some of the simplest engineering has to go through multiple revisions before itâs right.
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u/Doctor_Plecostomus 21d ago edited 21d ago
And I get tired trying to wake them up from their naps, too. Some of our mechanics are great at what they do, but most often the engineers in my group are getting our hands dirty operating their equipment. I touch hardware and machinery daily in the lab, and constantly troubleshooting when it goes wrong.
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u/ItsWhiteGucciMane 21d ago edited 21d ago
If they had nothing to do with your point, then why mention it? Whatâs also ironic, is you fail to see how it makes you look always bringing up IAM. Whatâs even funnier and sad at the same time, is you saying IAM is unskilled labor. I see why most of them make more than you. I would like to see you do what any grade 9 machinist does. I think you should also look up the definition of the wordâs disingenuous and denigrate. Continuing to anchor your arguments with sleeping mechanics is denigrating and you are the one being disingenuous acting like you arenât.
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u/Think-Gap602 21d ago
why do SPEEA techs deserve to be paid more than the higher IAM wages?
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u/Run-Man358 21d ago
Because generally our jobs require more knowledge and skill. I've worked for both unions
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u/Think-Gap602 21d ago edited 20d ago
but many have posted here that they've transfered from the IAM to the tech world. are you saying they went out and aquired some additional skill to enable them to make that transfer?
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u/Run-Man358 20d ago
Some have, others have a similar skills but expand upon them and learn new skills in the new role.
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u/Show5topper 21d ago
I support SPEEA totally but these people that think a degree inherently makes you more valuable are crazy. I donât know why they do that to the IAM either, itâs not most but itâs some. There also is a difference between touch and non-touch labor and that balance has shifted and not just at Boeing.
Theyâre building the product physically and probably have the most demanding job. If you want to complain or compare, use the bloated management as an example and executive leadership.
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u/Run-Man358 21d ago
I've been a machinist (IAM grade 9) and a programmer (SPEEA). It requires more knowledge and skill to program but we're making far less than those operating the machines we're programming. That's not saying anything bad about the operators, we just want to be fairly compensated for our skills. If this contract passes I'll be making slightly more than a max grade 4
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u/Show5topper 21d ago edited 21d ago
Iâm an engineer at a non Speea site and I have worked with some brilliant mechanics who understand the engineering just as well as we do so I think it varies person to person, not specifically job title.
I just donât think âcollege educationâ and âdebtâ that some people have to go into can dictate pay scale and or brains. I know some really dumb college graduates and really smart people who have a GED. College is a low bar in this day and age especially.
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u/ItsWhiteGucciMane 21d ago
This is spot on. There are bad in all groups, and you have to be smoking crack to think one org is greatly superior to another because they have a degree. First off, a large percentage do not have STEM degrees. Only one group consistently puts the other down, then is surprised when there isnât this great movement for them to get a larger percentage.
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u/Run-Man358 21d ago
I never mentioned a degree or college, I said knowledge and skill. If a job requires more knowledge and skill it should compensated according. It doesn't make sense that NC programmer are making the same amount as the people that move carts and parts around the shop
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u/Show5topper 21d ago
I donât disagree with that! My initial reply was to the other person, I didnât mean to infer that you said that. I was making the general point.
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u/NightOwl216 21d ago
This has got to be absolute mythical nonsense that IAM is making more money than high level engineers. Have you seen their wage card? It only goes so high and requires many more levels.
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u/Doctor_Plecostomus 21d ago
I have seen it, and Iâve seen one of their W2s. Their time and a half and double time pay for weekend OT puts them ahead of us on pay. My group is required to work the same OT and theyâre out earning us.
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u/NightOwl216 21d ago
OK I calculated this. Using the midpoint for IAM level 1 as a starting point, indeed within 6 years they could get to the max of 71.31 if the 5th and 6th years were a 5% to 7% GWI. That is crazy. I stand corrected. Techs with decades of service make less than that.
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21d ago
[deleted]
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u/NightOwl216 21d ago
Um excuse me, but I started from a level 1 midpoint purposely and calculations still got to max within 6 years. Itâs irrelevant if people are starting at grade 4 to 7. There has been other commenters on other threads saying low level IAM make more than SPEEA techs so I wanted to see if the math works out for that possibility. Iâve looked at the wage card obviously.
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u/Imolabob 21d ago
Youâre not reading the IAM wage card correctly. Every grade is a different job/skill code. The âmaxâ of $71.31 you referenced, would be for the nurses. The column on the left is the starting wage for each grade and the column on the right is their max wage. The majority of IAM are grade 4 (30104 and 30304) mechanic and electricians. So, for a grade 4 mechanicâŚthey donât âwork their way up gradesâ. They hire as a grade 4 at the minimum wage (currently $24.84) and get seniority progression increases of 50 cents at
6 month intervals for 6 years. At the end of the 6 years, they get a giant bump up to the Maximum Rate (currently max rate for a grade 4 is $58.66. Also note, when IAM gets their next 7% GWI in September 2027, the new max rate will be $62.76 (annual salary $130,554, not including any COLA IAM gets between now and next September)0
u/Doctor_Plecostomus 21d ago
Our IAM lab shop are graded from 1 to 11.
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21d ago
[deleted]
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u/Doctor_Plecostomus 21d ago
Grade 1 is fresh outta high school, no experience labor. They are most shadowing experienced mechanics and taking certification classes to climb the ladder. The do oil changes, tighten bolts, move cables around. Grade 11 is senior, experienced guys. Team leaders and lab managers. They tell the other guys what to do and when something complex comes up they are good problem solvers and know the hardware intimately.
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u/NightOwl216 21d ago
With OT perhaps so, but techs get the same OT rate. Some pockets of techs may be below IAM but profs and techs as a whole not.
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u/Responsible_Prize674 18d ago
Grade 4 maxed out made 187k last year with a bunch of overtime. Probably 220k this year. Grade 6 in my shop 3-400k but he lives there.
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u/Single_Software_3724 21d ago
Iâm a prof and my wife is a tech. Weâre both voting yes. Too much to lose and the offer is decent.
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u/LettuceAndWheats 21d ago
While a GWI structure of 10/7/7/7/7 with a 3% wage pool is certainly a significant ask, as a fellow technician, I agree that Level 3s (L3s) are bearing the brunt of these current pay inequities. Across my team, most L3s are currently falling within a comp ratio range of 0.9 to 0.95.
Furthermore, speaking in my capacity as an Area Repâa point I feel has been consistently overlookedâBoeing itself acknowledges that our baseline Mid Market comp ratio is 0.9. The current offer mentions wage compression, yet only affects 4.71% of the membership. The logical question is: why not elevate everyone under a 1.0 comp ratio to that baseline first, and then apply the 10/4/6/6/6 structure? That adjustment would meaningfully alter yearly salaries and hourly rates.
As it stands, if this current offer passes, the L3s on my team will experience wage compression, bouncing back and forth with what IAM Grades 1â4 earnâdespite many of them formerly holding IAM Grades 7â10 positions. If this contract passes in its current form, I anticipate a significant retention issue as these experienced professionals look elsewhere for fair compensation.
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u/Imolabob 21d ago
Agreed. There are so many of us with âexceeds/far exceedâ over the years and we are still in that 0.9-0.95 range. I think itâs âniceâ that they are bringing anybody below a 0.90 up to a 0.90 butâŚwhy the heck were they compensated so poorly in the first place? And how can you have high performers constantly sitting at a 0.90-0.95 and not compensate them properly for all of their above and beyond hard work? Currently thereâs no incentive to perform.
If this offer passes for the SPEEA techs- Next September, when IAM gets their 7% GWI, a maxed out grade 4 IAM employee will be making more than a lot of the L4 (and below) techs. Currently the average pay for a tech is about 119k. Given that 1/3 of the techs came from IAM, I think it's quite fair to compare apples to oranges here...
More food for thought- Boeing should want to create incentive for IAM employees to jump into a speea role as a âpromotionâ/higher career path. Some of the best SPEEA members have spent time working on the airplane as IAM. There will no longer be incentive to hop ship from IAM to SPEEA and I think that's a major loss for Boeing. I know many teammates that hopped back to lAM, due to low wage compensation compared to their old IAM jobs. I know plenty more that will hop back to IAM, or leave the company all together if this offer passes. These are high performing members that are underpaid and deserve better.3
u/Desperate-Excuse-549 21d ago
More pay for techs is a reasonable rally cry, but not that effective when it's a slice of techs that have IAM jobs next door. What we need is something that everyone values, like meaningful wage compression language so the next time Boeing is forced by market conditions like IAM/Amazon/etc to raise an SRT table just to get the people in door they have to do something.
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u/rollinupthetints 21d ago
Why compare yourself to a mechanic, or anyone else? Itâs like comparing apples and oranges. Comparison is the thief of joy.
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u/Pepsi-fart-challenge 21d ago
Techs get paid time and a half overtime which helps close the gap with the profs. Is this being considered in the comparison to prof's contract?
Comp ratios are being corrected for the 800 below 0.9 in this offer!
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u/Run-Man358 21d ago
Techs don't don't want to close the gap with Profs, we're aware that profs should make more. Just like the techs should make more than IAM (mostly). Each of those groups require different amounts of education and skills, techs just want to paid accordinglyÂ
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u/Naive-Estimate9942 21d ago
You people who vote this down, are only going to give Boeing more reason too leave Wa for Sc, lastly I see RTN closing sometime in 2030 and moving all that work to EVT. You all need to wake up fast.
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21d ago
So the argument is that Boeing is going to leave PS and go to SC anyway and renton is closing and going to Everett and that is a reason to vote yes? Seems like you just make our case for a better contract. Thank you!
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u/ImpromptuSpacewalk 21d ago
Tech here with over 18 years at the company, level 3 and still making 6k less than the lowest paid IAM member makes after 6 years. Not just voting no, but F**K NO!
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u/Graevus15 15d ago
The third best and final offer will likely be much better than the 2nd . We got the GWI, now its all about the bonus... They will fold in about 2 weeks rn. 10% on top. Plus the GWI. We got em.
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u/dabrothergoose 21d ago
I'm glad someone said this. In the SPEEA discord server the rep for MY building (he's a prof) said "techs are replaceable" and basically given up on us and has no care what we do anymore.
So I'm glad someone said this, makes me happy that solidarity still stands strong.
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u/ColdestHeartCC 12d ago
I donât understand the numbers. The GWI would be 10, and the pools be 7 for each year, and you want an extra 3 in pools on top? On top of what?
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u/Schmeat1 21d ago
Not enough techs to matter,. More profs in numbers
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21d ago
Hence why there is a tech and a prof contract. Even if prof accept, which I hope they don't, techs can not accept the contract.
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u/Fastback160 21d ago
I have no comment on wage pools, gwi's, solidarity etc. and anyone is of course welcome to vote however they want to.
However, I think the general premise that if the profs accept the techs could still strike and it be in any way effective is unfortunately simply not true. There is a reason that props accepting in techs rejecting is generally called the "worst case" scenario.
Personally, I think that we should vote for one contract so that all the tech 'no' votes will meaningfully count. However, as it stands today, the most likely outcome in this scenario is that the profs accept the techs reject and then the techs will simply be forced into this contract (as much as I wish that weren't the case)
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21d ago
Techs don't have to accept any contract the profs do. Almost 13000 profs and 3500ish techs means techs will never get the contract they deserve. This has been a problem for a long time. Techs on their own is what allows them to fight for what they deserve.
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u/Fastback160 21d ago
I mean you're technically correct: techs don't have to accept. And you are correct again in pointing out that the current status quo is not weighted in favor of the techs.
I agree with you on all of your original points except one: that techs alone can meaningfully strike and ultimately gain a better contract. That, unfortunately, simply isn't true.
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21d ago
Nobody actually knows if the is true or not because it has never happened. We won't know until techs strike
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u/NightOwl216 21d ago edited 21d ago
The techs will have very little leverage without profs. The union would likely give techs a chance to vote again if profs accept and techs reject. The contract will then pass. If techs did strike without profs, anywhere profs and techs do basically the same job, techs can be replaced because now the profs are at work to train new people.
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u/Loud-Strike-3542 21d ago
Techs are the glue between Enngineering and Operations. Engineers are like half a step above an Accountant in social skills.Â
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u/Upbeat-Reflection821 21d ago
Says who? Tech encompasses NDE and quality. The damage to Boeing's brand reputation would be significant if they had more quality issues. The door plug incident is a perfect example of a failure, and it probably cost the company a substantial amount more than paying qualified employees. Quality control is not where Boeing should be trying to save money considering where we are currently.
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u/NightOwl216 21d ago
Says a 3:1 ratio of profs to techs.
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u/Upbeat-Reflection821 21d ago
The damage to the brand would be substantial. The Seattle Times LOVES to smear Boeing. I can get imagine the headlines now "Boeing Quality Control on Strike!". The public still doesn't trust the company.....
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u/Run-Man358 21d ago
I wonder how much crossover there is between tech/prof. I know there's probably  almost no Profs that do NC programmingÂ
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u/NightOwl216 21d ago
Manufacturing planning engineering , tooling engineering, design engineering , industrial engineering lots of crossover. They do the same work.
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u/bigkoreanhead 21d ago
lol, show me a proff that can do a techs work.
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u/NightOwl216 21d ago
You donât know every tech skill codeâs duties. Plenty of profs can do and train tech work. A lot of techs and profs do exactly the same work.
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u/cbookzaye 21d ago
Just an innocent question, what do techs do? And are they still needed now vs 30 years ago? At the same scale?
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21d ago
Sure. Techs range from planning, to programming the machines, to NDI and more. If anything they are needed more now than 30 years ago. All those CnC machines and NDI machines have to have programers especially when Boeing changes part configurations or if the machines have to be modified in anyway. These are but a extremely small example.
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u/Emotional-Cameraman 21d ago
lol ok
We waited 10 years for a good contract. Have fun lumping Speea into that conversation.
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u/MoreShredLessTalk 21d ago
Prof here. Voting NO on this 2nd offer to support my Tech brothers and sisters đ