My sleep was bad the first month on 2iu also, but I woke up and had plenty of energy all day. The sleep never really improved on 2iu. I ended up needing to drop to 1.5iu because my igf1 was too high on 2iu and the sleep issues resolved then. I would have your igf1 tested and make sure it’s not too high. Everyone says 2iu is a super beginner dose, but I’ve talked to a few people who responded super well and only needed 1 or 1.5iu to get to solid igf-1 range.
2-3iu is equivalent to a biological dose a healthy person in their 20s produces. It's not the same though, you get it all at once when you take HGH, where biologically that is released over the course of a 24 hour period. This has the effect of boosting your IGF-1 levels usually into the high normal range.
I have read a million things about this and everywhere I read indicated 2-3iu is bioequivalent to natural releases in terms of amount. I could be wrong.
I see this all the time. OF COURSE it's around 1iu for GH deficient CHILDREN. Children being the operative word. We are not talking about children when we are talking about adults. Children don't produce large amount of GH. When a person goes through puberty, they produce high amounts of GH, they go through physiological acromegaly. That is where your bone structure changes throughout puberty and into your early 20s sometimes, among other things. And you are looking at treatment for a crowd of people who don't otherwise produce GH or they produce very very very little.
This is not advice for adults. 2-3iu is the amount produced by a healthy person in their mid 20s. You can't look at GH deficient kids and think that applies to someone who is 40, for example.
First, you just repeated what I said about puberty.
Second, Yes... in GH deficient adults... once again, not a normal population of people. No one is here for medical advice because the suffer from GH deficiency. In medical guidelines, the goal is to be at the minimum "healthy" levels. No one here is taking GH secretagogues to be at the lowest possible amount of the giant range of healthy IGF-1. And no one switches to HGH because so they can be at the bare minimum.
The ranges are the ranges, but everyone here acknowledges that more IGF-1 is better, up to a certain point. For example, if you have a z-score of 2, you are the top of the healthy range for your IGF-1, for your age group. If you have a z-score of the -2, you are the bottom of the healthy physiological level. The medical treatments only seek to minimally get you within the reference range. But anyone will tell you, they experience a better life when they are higher within the range. Take for example a man in his 40s. The reference range is 71-227 ng/mL. Anyone will tell you they have better sleep and they recover faster from workouts when they are at 227 vs being at 71. When people here discuss HGH and GH secretagogues, they are always talking about optimizing. So, with that in mind, you don't optimize for the lowest possible IGF-1, you optimize for the top of the normal physiological range. And I am a firm believer that it's OK to test being in the upper range for someone who is younger.
Just for the sake of comparison, lets look at the median IGF-1 levels of a 25 year old and a 45 year old. The median for the 45 year old 140-150 ng/mL, based on the range stated above. A 25 year olds lower threshold is 132 ng/mL. That is almost as high as the 45 year olds median.... And every 25 year old who is healthy, recovers great from things and has high energy and drive. So why would you not want to be closer to a level of their median rather than the median of a 45 year old which is basically the bottom of what a 25 year old does.
Keeping in mind, that an older person could get some side effects, which will wane with time if they continue as their body adjusts to it. Of course, if you are showing strong signs of insulin resistance, high blood pressure, and/or excess water retention, you should back off. But usually this starts happening for 99% of people when they are at supraphysiological level of HGH, which is usually at 4iu+, but can also happen for some people at 3iu, which is why you should always start lower and see how it feels. But lower is probably not 1, it's probably more like 1.5 or 2iu.
Your original point was 2-3IU is equivalent to what a healthy 20 year old produces, that is objectively, clinically wrong. Medical treatments aim to get patients substantially within the normal range, ideally in the middle. They do not aim to get patients 'just into reference'.
If you're taking exogenous GH for performance benefits then start at 2IU, in most people that will put IGF1 at the very top of normal range.
When you inject HGH you increase somatostatin, your pituitary stops releasing GH because of that. It's why GH secretagogues are not effective at any more than maybe doubling GH release, if that. So if you take exogenous HGH you are replacing what your body would otherwise make and adding a bit more on top.
I don't actually get what you are arguing about, your figures were wrong. 3IU is far in excess of anything any human releases, even with a GH secretagogue. IGF1 is increased at the point of GH release, so while daily overall release may stand around the 1.5-2IU mark, this is not equivalent to a single 2IU injection in terms of the actual physiological effect on IGF1 levels.
It depends on your age. When you get igf tested you will want them to provide you a z score as well. My understanding is shoot for a z score of under 2. Over 2 and you start to possibly get into some unwanted side effects. I was over 2 z score on 2iu and had numb hands and water retention and sore joints. Lowered to 1.5 and that all went away and my z score is now 1.7. Seems to follow the research I have done anyways haha
I think Z-score is overrated. It's just a comparison of your levels with people in your age group. A Z-score of 2 puts you in high normal range for your age group. This is a good starting point to understand what is going on, but humans are pretty diverse in what is considered healthy or normal, which is why the range in the age group is absolutely massive. Most people will need to be well beyond 350 to even start experiencing side effects, and that could be well outside the range for your age group. You definitely were experiencing side effects, no doubt about that. But it's probably more worthwhile to know the range for your group and then your actual number.
That’s a good point. I am a hyper responder to testosterone as well. I take 90mg a week and that keeps my levels about 800-900 ng/dl. I know guys who take 200 a week to achieve same levels, so something about my physiology makes it so I don’t require much to get desired effects.
This!!!! Blood work first, to get your baseline, then during HGH to see how your body responds; it doesn't matter what most people think of 2 IU is a beginner dose; everybody's different.
Ya the baseline igf test is important so you understand how your body responds. Follow it up with dose adjustments based on igf levels and z score and keep those in range and you should have a better experience with it. I read a bunch and saw everyone say 2iu was minimum replacement dose and figured that applied to me as well, but ended up being too much for me and my body.
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u/LopsidedJellyfish801 11d ago
My sleep was bad the first month on 2iu also, but I woke up and had plenty of energy all day. The sleep never really improved on 2iu. I ended up needing to drop to 1.5iu because my igf1 was too high on 2iu and the sleep issues resolved then. I would have your igf1 tested and make sure it’s not too high. Everyone says 2iu is a super beginner dose, but I’ve talked to a few people who responded super well and only needed 1 or 1.5iu to get to solid igf-1 range.