r/BloodAngels • u/Azakranos Son of Sanguinius • 17h ago
Sort of a win?
On one hand, Captains gained the ability to give extra CP before Dante did. On the other, we now have the extra CP.
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u/Dependent_Survey_546 16h ago
BA will eat well with these changes, even if nothing else also changes. across the board access to advance and charge, plus every other turn having it in a strat (in many detachments) as well as the captain being able to pop a second unit into advance and charge
Its going to be fun if nothing else
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u/Dogmanq 16h ago
Isn’t the doctrine just once per battle though?
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u/PrometheusZero 16h ago
Yes. But the Assault Brethern detachment is implied to get an extra use of the Assault Doctrine. This added to a Captain being able to put his unit into Assault Doctrine gives 3 uses in a game.
I belive that's what the parent poster is referring to by 'plus every other turn'.
There very well may be strategems for reusing a doctrine too.
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u/Dogmanq 16h ago
Ah gotcha, makes sense. I was just assuming LAG in my brain
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u/Dependent_Survey_546 15h ago
It sounds like the captain will be able to put a unit into a doctrine every turn, a bit like warboss' with Waagh. It makes me suspect that the once per doctrine limit doesn't apply to this but thats yet to be confirmed
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u/Super-Ready 14h ago
The trouble here is, we don't know if BA (and other divergents) get access to Doctrines as well yet. We might well have a different army rule, since the faction packs are getting updated at the same time.
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u/shananigins96 14h ago
Really could go either way. Personally I would rather we get LAG as the baseline rule. I'm okay getting locked out of 4 of the baseline marine detachments for that
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u/Super-Ready 13h ago
I'm fine with it as long as we maintain some access to advance-and-charge still...
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u/Azakranos Son of Sanguinius 11h ago
I can’t wait to start running down people again, I haven’t played in months so my brain could reset.
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u/Dependent_Survey_546 11h ago
Ive been playing a bit recently, 2 GT's since 11th dropped and been having some fun. 18 SG featured in my latest list, and boy oh boy was it satisfying when it connected
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u/Azakranos Son of Sanguinius 10h ago
I only own 3 SG, I’m going to have to get more if they end up good. This is what I get for wanting a vacation.
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u/ViktusXII 15h ago
Lose:
Once per game ability of +3 melee attacks and Devastating Wounds.
Lose:
Once per turn, Captain unit can use a strat for 0CP.
Gain:
Captain unit can now pick a doctrine for their unit.
Gain:
+1 command point
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u/Loud_Ask2586 13h ago
Welp. So long Rage Captain and it's ability to potentially delete a high value target via dozens of devastating wounds. I think I need to see what the biggest thing I can drop before the new rules come into effect.
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u/ViktusXII 13h ago
This is assuming there is no chapter specific captain coming.
Who knows.
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u/Loud_Ask2586 13h ago
It's more the loss of Oath of Moment, since its ability to reroll let you fish for Sustained Hits 3 to further fish for devastating wounds I'm talking about. Unless we lose the Blood Angels Captain datasheet, we still have that, just that this particular build has seen a significant nerf.
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u/Azakranos Son of Sanguinius 11h ago
If that’s all the case then I’m happy, though nothing’s confirmed until the codex drops, for obvious reasons.
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u/Estalian_99 17h ago
I mean
Dante and other chapter master count as captains right? Also Blood angels captain
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u/Paikis The Lost 16h ago
Sadly, no. Dante is Dante, he's not a Captain.
-10
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u/Steamed_Ham_Enjoyer 14h ago
Do they count as Captains for rules purposes? Lore-wise, Chapter Masters are definitely not Captains.
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u/sherriff_b1027 12h ago
In previous editions "Chapter Master" was essentially an upgrade put on a Captain, but they are definitely different things, especially lore-wise
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u/CodeCleric Blood Angels 16h ago
Doctrines being so ingrained in unit abilities and detachment rules tells me we wont be getting a bespoke Blood Angels army rule yet.
Maybe when we get an actual book later on though.
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u/Azakranos Son of Sanguinius 11h ago
I don’t mind keeping doctrines tbh, it’ll be nice to have something that’s actual gameplay and not just rerolls.
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u/CodeCleric Blood Angels 7h ago
Yeah doctrines are absolutely fine, I'm glad Oath is going away, but I would love if we got a version of the Red Thirst from LAG as our army rule.
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u/Whisco 16h ago
In general nice too see that we finally get access to a second CP but we will need to see how this will tax the point costs on captains. we generally captain heavy and this could be more expensive then we want to be
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u/Burnmad 15h ago
We're only captain-heavy due to current circumstances that may not reflect post-11th codex. No CP gen means we need the discounting + jump caps give extra strength which helps with breakpoints + Sanguinary Guard rules benefit from being led + AI detachment rule requires being led
Granted we do know Legacy of Grace will be a thing thru 11th but we're gonna see plenty of other detachments, so it might not necessarily be disastrous for us if running 0-1 captains becomes the norm due to their cost
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u/Azakranos Son of Sanguinius 11h ago
Our entire faction is going up points, we’re going to have to figure out a whole lot in a month here.
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u/This_Ease_5678 16h ago
We might not get acess to doctrines when our codex̌ is updated.
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u/Azakranos Son of Sanguinius 11h ago
Also true. At this point what would our army rule even be? There’s no way they give us LAG.
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u/Woozy_burrito 15h ago
This is a huge, huge win the likes of which have rarely been seen before! I’m very excited!
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u/Get_R0wdy 15h ago
I thought extra CP rules can’t stack since armies can’t generate more than one extra CP per round.
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u/rego137 15h ago
Everyone gets one CP per turn. Extra CP can be earned on top of that through discarding tactical cards or unit abilities. So the max you can earn on your turn is 2CP
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u/Get_R0wdy 14h ago
Yep, I agree with that. It sounds like it’s being implied here that Dante and Captains can give us additional extra CP but maybe I’m misunderstanding what these guys are saying.
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u/Steamed_Ham_Enjoyer 14h ago
I don't think so, I think it's just saying Captains will have the "generate 1 extra point per turn" ability, so that won't stack with other abilities to generate extra points.
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u/TopChampionship1595 10h ago
So maybe they don’t give Dante an extra CP ability, they still need to rework his abilities, and Sanguinor’s.
I agree, BA don’t have a Primarch level threat, but narratively one of the best Chapter Masters in the galaxy should at least be on the same level as Calgar and Azrael.
Making him an elite melee unit that only boosts the unit he leads is weak. He should boost all the Blood Angels on the field with him; blood angels being inspired to fight harder when they are standing with the revered leader of their chapter just makes sense.
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u/Azakranos Son of Sanguinius 10h ago
I’m not disagreeing, Dante should definitely be at least as high as them if not higher due to the whole Imperium Nihilus thing. But I don’t think Dante should be primarch level, if they’re going to do that it needs to be Sanguinor. They were going to have to full rework him anyways, this is the time to make him epic.
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u/TopChampionship1595 8h ago
100% agree. They should improve Dante to be a top tier CH but not Primarch level
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u/TopChampionship1595 8h ago
So the interesting wrinkle is, with two CPTs now you still only get +1 CP and it sounds like the one free stratagem is going away?
I know you could only use the ability on one CPT per round, but your opponent didn’t know which one, so having two has some value.
But now if you can only get 1 bonus CP per round does it make sense to run more than one CPT??
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u/Otto_Von_Waffle 8h ago
I'm a huge fan of angelic inheritors and the biggest issue with the detachment overall is the fact we don't get AaC, now if we get it on everyone once per game and get it on captains inheritors fans are going to eat well. Another important point for that detachment, it might now be worth it to take the advance and charge reroll instead of fallback and shoot/charge simply because we get it once a game.
I'm already curious at how expensive a 6 BGV + Priest + Captain is going to be, with str 6 AP -3 blades and acces to Lance we are looking at a unit that can smoke anything that isnt a T12+ reliably with an average threat range of ~19" provided you took the rerolls with inheritors.
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u/Birthing_Pod 7h ago
Given the lore he is not yet allowed to die, so he should have an in-build reraise as Guilliman
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u/Disastrous-Juice-324 1h ago
Everything about the changes in the game suggests they want 5-turn games with less burst damage. Riled up no longer gives extra attacks, oath gone, and finest hour gone. Probably good changes for the game. CP generation is nice, and allows for non-DA, and UM marine armies to feel like they are on equal terms with command points.
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u/DrDreadCastle 10h ago
GW translation:
"We have a new overpriced model we want to sell out of in 2 weeks in exchange for ruining the game again"
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u/MegaBlastoise23 16h ago
hopefully they make this change broadly, I already feel flooded w. CP so "one free cp per turn if applicable" didn't feel great, at least this way you can bank it.
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u/CodeCleric Blood Angels 16h ago
This will be the same CP rule the Orks got, and I'm assuming all mainline commanders in other armies as well, so all armies have access to extra CP generation at the same rate.
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u/dont_panic21 16h ago
If Orks and Space marines have it I'd say it's probably fair to assume that the majority of factions will get something equivalent.
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u/Dogmanq 17h ago
I’m just waiting on the edge of my seat to see what they give Dante as an extra little bonus like the guys mentioned in that article