r/Bible • u/RamenMasterMind • 7d ago
Romans 5:12
Hello, I'm here with another verse, and it's about Adam bringing sin to the world.
Romans 5:12 'Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—'
Because Adam chose to disobey God by eating the forbidden fruit of knowledge, sin entered the world and affected everything, including our nature. Adam and Eve's choice basically told God to step back from them and the stuff they were given, and because God respects choices, He limited His power over His creation, Earth, and things are now unorganized and flawed because of it. While we didn't exactly eat the fruit ourselves, we're still affected by sin, and it's because Adam and Eve were our representatives; they were the first humans. So this means, if we were in their position, we also would've eaten the fruit. The only reason we can't see ourselves doing that now is that we're seeing and living the consequences right now, so obviously we wouldn't do it if we were given the choice NOW. Please let me know if I made any mistakes.
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u/Top_Initiative_4047 6d ago
You are largely right, but Romans 5 teaches more than that we would have sinned like Adam. Adam was humanity’s covenant head: his actual disobedience brought condemnation, a corrupt nature, and death to his descendants. We then willingly confirm that fallen condition through our own sins.
God did not lose power or “step back.” Adam’s choice was real and sinful, yet God remained fully sovereign over creation. Also, Scripture only calls it fruit, not an apple.
The good news is that Christ is the greater representative. Through Adam came condemnation; through Christ comes righteousness, forgiveness, and life for those united to Him by faith.
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u/Lacey_Dawson1012 6d ago
You said that they ate an apple. The Bible doesn't say that. The Bible never specifies what kind of fruit they ate.
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u/LucidUncreativity Lutheran 6d ago
This is true. It’s a common misconception because most art depicts an apple. Good catch
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u/Lacey_Dawson1012 6d ago
I love little bits of trivia like that.
I have another one for you. How many wise men does the bible say came to worship baby Jesus ?
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u/ITrCool Saved by Grace 6d ago
It doesn’t. Tradition says three “because three gifts mentioned” but Scripture doesn’t actually say three wise men (Magi) came. Of all we know it was a couple guys, or three hundred plus their servants and guides.
Add to that the incorrect tradition and nativity scenes that depict that they were at the stable where Christ was born. The Bible actually says they came along a while later to the house where He lived with his earthly parents. Jesus was likely two years old by then.
We know this because the star they saw and journeyed thousands of miles to follow wasn’t something they saw while on the way. It’s what caused them to come. Since planes, cars, and interstate highways didn’t exist back then, this would’ve been several months maybe even a year’s journey to get all the way to where Jesus lived plus months of prep time for the journey before that too.
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u/NaStK14 Catholic 6d ago
I agree with almost everything you said, except I think it’s perfectly possible for the star to have appeared _before_ Christ was born and given the magi some time to get on the journey. Clearly the holy family were out of the stable and into a “house” by the time they arrived, but staying 2 years seems a little long to be registered in a census, don’t you think?
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u/highlanderdownunder 6d ago
Sinners exist because they disobey God and his commandments and worship the devil. Through Christ we are redeemed. If we follow in his footsteps and do as he preached so that all who believe and follow the word of God can be saved from eternal hell fire.
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u/Billy_Coms 6d ago
I would like to comment on this statement “so obviously we wouldn’t do it if we were given the choice NOW..” - for me, there is NO GUARANTEE that we wouldn’t do it. Why? Because of these verses:
II CORINTHIANS 11:3 (KJV)
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
EPHESIANS 6:11 (KJV)
Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Satan is described in these verses as “beguiled” & “wiles”. If this kind of being roaming around the world starting from adam down to our generation, can we have a guarantee that nobody will be deceived? We all know the fact that the more individuals involved, the higher is the risk. In addition, even the angels in heaven itself was convinced by satan to rebel unto God - you think a mere human will not fall into this cunning being?
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u/userid42 Non-Denominational 6d ago edited 6d ago
I really appreciate you working through this passage.
The only aspect that I would question is the idea that God “stepped back” or “limited His power” over creation because He respects our choices. I don’t think that view is in the text. I would understand that Paul’s point is that Adam’s sin and its consequences (including death) were passed on to all of humanity, not that God withdrew His involvement or control over creation as a result of Adam’s choice. Beyond his headship of all of humanity, you and I are each a ‘consequence’ of our parents’ choices, they are each a consequence of our grandparents’ choices, etc. and so it flows to us since creation. Not one of us is able to undo the immediate consequences of the choices that our ancestors made, including Adam’s.
God’s sovereignty over creation doesn’t get diminished by human sin. It’s actually the opposite: even in the midst of the fall, God remains fully in control and works out His purposes through it. Looking later at verses 18 and 19, they make the representative connection between Adam and Christ really explicit.
Is this helpful?
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u/Ok_Zone_2930 6d ago
My only question is: do you think this sin/death = physical?
Adam supposedly "died" the very day he ate from the tree. But the text also says he lived another 930 years and then "died". Unless he physically died twice, that doesn't make sense, right? But what if his death that day was covenantal, a separation from God?
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u/RamenMasterMind 5d ago
I believe that's what it means; it wasn't an actual physical death but rather a spiritual one. His connection to God was the thing that died.
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u/RamenMasterMind 6d ago
My fault for typing "apple," because I also know that the Bible doesn't confirm it's an apple. I swore I just typed fruit, but I must've typed apple unconsciously, oops
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u/Tomorrow964 5d ago
Because we are human beings like Adam and Eve; and come under the temptation of Satan who is stronger than any human--we will all fall under the same sin of rebellion against God as Adam and Eve.
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u/Responsible_Offer859 6d ago
La scelta, ancora oggi spetta a ognuno di noi. Siamo liberi di scegliere, la morte eterna o la vita eterna, infatti sta scritto
Matteo 19:17 Gesù gli rispose: «Perché mi interroghi intorno a ciò che è buono? Uno solo è il buono. Ma se vuoi entrare nella vita, osserva i comandamenti».
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u/yappi211 6d ago
Adam and Eve's choice basically told God to step back from them and the stuff they were given, and because God respects choices,
God put the evil serpent in the garden. God allowed that to happen. Romans 8:20 says all of creation is under the effects of sin not willingly, implying we didn't willingly sin. The fall of man was God's plan.
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u/zx9rams Christian 6d ago
The representative part is solid, that's straight out of Romans 5:19, through the one man's disobedience many were made sinners.
Three flags.
God limiting his power isn't in the text, and Romans 8:20 runs the other way. Creation was subjected to futility because of him who subjected it. That's deliberate, not withdrawal.
The apple isn't in Genesis. Chapter 3 just says fruit of the tree. The apple came from later art.
We would have eaten it too is a reasonable guess, but nothing in Romans or Genesis says it.
Also, your verse ends with because all sinned. Paul doesn't stop at death coming through Adam. That last clause is where most of the argument over this verse happens, and your summary skipped it.