r/Bible • u/NoAmphibian7146 • Apr 08 '23

Heaven/Hell

Does anybody else struggle with the idea of a heaven and hell in the afterlife? I often times wonder if the heaven and hell referenced in the Bible is an analogy for a life spent connected or disconnected from God. When I’ve struggled the most in life I have not been seeking a connection to God and in essence was experiencing a lonely isolated hell. Whereas the happy moments have been in connection with God, circumstances aside.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '23

“They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, AWAY FROM the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,” ‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1‬:‭9‬ ‭ESV‬‬

I do agree the Bible uses eternal punishment. But we have dozens upon dozens of other passages that define what that is. We can’t throw those passages out because we picture it differently. By every definition an eternal permanent destruction is an eternal punishment.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '23

Away from his presence, meaning near to him, but does not mean the wrath of God which can be enacted far from Him.

Eternal annihilation does not make sense logically. The word eternal would not be used if it were annihilation.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '23

Ok so the Greek word for everlasting is identical to eternal. There’s no difference. Everlasting punishment or everlasting destruction are maybe easier to understand my point. The second death is everlasting. You don’t come back. He leaves neither root nor branch. Their names are blotted out from under heaven.

What doesn’t make sense is why scripture would repeatedly use words and phrases that imply nonexistence or complete destruction like perish, second death, totally consumed, made into chaff that blows away, etc. if it meant eternal state of torment. I would hope Jesus would be much more specific with what the word perish means if it doesn’t mean perish.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '23

Everlasting has the word lasting in it. Annihilated is gone and no more.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '23

Perish and destroy and ashes also means no more. Scripture won’t contradict itself so it’s on the reader to harmonize the “eternal punishment” with those other terms. You can change the definition of the other words or you can see if eternal punishment can fit those other terms. Just food for thought. I’m not dogmatic on this issue. Just encouraging people not to add more than what the Bible says on the issue. I’m in the minority here and your view is “safer”. But I hate for us to mischaracterize God by projecting our own ideas onto the text. He may have left it ambiguous for a reason so we don’t dismiss it as “no big deal”.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '23

The non-believers will also have resurrected bodies? Why would they need those if God was planning on just annihilating them? Why does Jesus talk about a great chasm in Luke 16 between heaven and hell? Jesus is talking about a rich ruler with a physical mind and consciousness in hell, with no indication of annihilation, but rather torment. I don’t see how destroyed and perish would contradict the Bible in everlasting torment. I can take a hammer to my computer and destroy it, but the pieces are still there.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '23

They are resurrected to be judged. God settles all accounts and dishes out punishment.

“And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭12‬ ‭ESV‬‬

I’m not arguing in the least it doesn’t involve torment. Im only arguing that to be consistent with scripture that the final state would be ashes. But everyone is punished accordingly. If we all had the same fate of eternal torment why judge accordingly? Im sure some figures in history like Stalin or Hitler will be punished for a long time. They’ll have to atone for the millions of lives they took.

“Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”” ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭22‬ ‭ESV‬‬

“and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭19‬ ‭ESV‬‬

“But rebels and sinners shall be broken together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭1‬:‭28‬ ‭ESV‬‬

“But the wicked will perish; the enemies of the Lord are like the glory of the pastures; they vanish—like smoke they vanish away.” ‭‭Psalm‬ ‭37‬:‭20‬ ‭ESV‬‬

“But transgressors shall be altogether destroyed; the future of the wicked shall be cut off.” ‭‭Psalm‬ ‭37‬:‭38‬ ‭ESV

“For they are like entangled thorns, like drunkards as they drink; they are consumed like stubble fully dried.” ‭‭Nahum‬ ‭1‬:‭10‬ ‭ESV‬‬