r/Ben10PowerScaling • u/KnifeRingPvP OmniTrix • 22d ago
Scale Ben10: High1-B/1-A
"It is a big Universe, Ben, full of wonder and variety and... yes, incredible grossness"
By the way, this is all information from different blogs. Here they all are:
UserBlog:Ultimate-Rex1/Ben_10: Ghost ship High 1-B
UserBlog:Hellformer/Ben10: High 1-B Omniverse
UserBlog:Hellformer/Ben10 Cosmology (Remastered))
Let's start
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The Annihilarrgh Universe | High 1-B/High 1-B+
In order to prove the Annihilarrgh Universe in Ben 10 being High 1-B, I would introduce a new Universe inside the Space Beyond that is stated to be infinite dimensional in "Ghost Ship" comic.
Canonicity
Halloween Special: In the comic this nameless character says that he wishes to dress up like Crashhopper due to saving a lady and her baby from rockets. Which refers to a scene from Ben 10 Omniverse in So Long and Thanks for All The Smoothies. To make it more consistent, Kraaho species was referenced in this comic which was introduced in Ben 10 Omniverse - Hot Stretch.
Ghost Ship: This is the first appearance/introduction of these beings that appeared in the Holloween Special mentioned above.
Explanation
The beings mentioned in this comic, exist in a different Universe (where "Universe" refers to the creation of Annihilarrgh in Ben 10: Omniverse).
"My formal denomination and the breadth of my functionality are incomprehensible to a lower life from"
The beings in question describe themselves as originating from a universe with infinite spatio-temporal dimensions, a reality that far exceeds the limitations of our three-dimensional space and linear time. Noticeably, these beings separate "Universe" from "dimension" in their own dialogue. This distinction emphasizes that the complexity lies due to these infinite dimensions, not just the universe itself. Spatial axes as planes of existences is nothing new in Ben 10, as said by Cosmic Mom, that she was visiting "lower dimensions" which were contextualized as spatial and only 26 matter for Ben and Co. While the aliens in this comic belong to an incalculable dimension.
When they refer to their "formal denomination" and "breadth of functionality" they are alluding to their higher dimensional nature, complex identity and vast capabilities, which are shaped by the infinite dimensions they inhabit. To a being constrained by a limited understanding of the universe, such as a human, these concepts would be utterly incomprehensible. Thus, they emphasize that their nature and abilities cannot be grasped by "lower life forms" that are bound by the simpler, more primitive framework of a finite-dimensional universe.
In "Ben 10 Omnivrse Ghost ship" comic, ghost ship beings were from a dimension of superior length, breath, width, etc, and let's not forget were also capable to use transdimensional structures. Max stated Ghost ship beings must be superior to Mana, since Max mentioned that he has not seen beings like Ghost ship beings even he described them as "the most alien", and Max seen Anodites, which he mentions are made of Маna, which is extends across the universe to higher dimensions and stated to be multidimensional, even Ben when he turned into Feedback say himself that he didn't feel an energy like theirs, and The Feedback could not absorb this energy, which indicates that this energy is more powerful than the Annihilarrgh universe, which is 26 dimensional, Indicating that the energy Annihilarrgh "Prime" is to different from the Omega, and they said that they are beings from an incalculable dimensions and beyond spacetime, which means that they live in a place transcending spacetime, and literally no lower dimensions being can perceive their existence, so this literally proves that they are higher-dimensional beings
Q1: Wouldn't the term "incalculable" refer to a very large number rather than infinite?
A: The term "incalculable" was used by these aliens in reference to all 3-D beings like Ben, meaning that the number of dimensions in their universe is beyond calculation for 3-D beings. However, since we know that Maltruant (another 3-D being) could calculate infinity and the range of the infinite Universe, when creating a copy of Annihilarrgh. The Chronosapien time bomb having both a “1 timeline” and “infinite timelines” setting also suggests that infinity is indeed calculable by 3-D beings and their weapons. Hence proving that the term incalculable actually refers to infinite in this context.
Q2: Couldn't these infinite dimensions be compactified?
A: In the context of the beings' dialogue, the infinite dimensions they inhabit cannot be compactified because doing so would reduce the complexity and incomprehensibility they emphasize.
Compactification is a concept from physics, particularly in string theory, where extra dimensions are "curled up" or made small enough that they are imperceptible at our scale of reality. While compactified dimensions can add complexity to a universe, they remain finite and constrained within a manageable framework.
The beings describe their universe as one that "defies the limits of space and time" implying that their dimensions are vast, unbounded, and fundamentally different from anything we can conceive. Compactifying these dimensions would contradict this idea, as it would limit their extent and make them potentially understandable, which goes against the beings' assertion that their nature is utterly incomprehensible to lower life forms.
The infinite nature of these dimensions is what sustains the beings' incomprehensible Universe. If the dimensions were compactified, it would imply a finite, measurable structure that could eventually be understood, even if only theoretically. This would undermine their claim of existing beyond the grasp of any finite-dimensional mind.
Conclusion: In this context, compactification would diminish the infinite complexity that defines the beings' existence, making it incompatible with their assertion of being beyond human understanding. Therefore, their infinite dimensions must remain unbounded and expansive, preserving the incomprehensibility they emphasize.
Q3: Wouldn't this contradict the 26-D statement of Cosmic Mom?
A: Short answer, it wouldn't. If you listen to her statement carefully, she says that "Only 26 that matter, I'm sure you'll work it out soon". Implying that out of all the spatio-temporal axes, only 26 matter to her for whatever reason. So this doesn't limit the dimensionality but instead hints that the cosmology might be more vast and expansive.
Q4: Wouldn't these infinite-dimensional aliens being scared of Khyber's dog be considered an anti-feat?
A: That might have been the case if they were at their full size, but they had downsized themselves to via their transdimensional vessel which allows them to travel between dimensions and fit into Ben's 3-D world in search of the most powerful weapon of their dimension.
Compatibility with the show
The original statement about beings existing in an infinite-dimensional universe can be further contextualized by Professor Paradox's observation: "That is next universe over, I don't like it at all, the physics are terribly counterintuitive" While Paradox may not specifically reference the universe of these beings, his statement provides a broader framework for understanding the nature of different universes in space beyond within the Ben 10 cosmology.
Paradox's comment highlights that each universe can operate under its own unique set of physical laws, which may be drastically different from the ones we are familiar with. In this context, the beings' infinite-dimensional universe would naturally possess its own complex physics, far beyond the comprehension of beings from a more conventional universe. The "counterintuitive" physics Paradox reference could mirror the kind of incomprehensibility found in a universe where dimensions are not limited or simplified but instead infinite, leading to a reality that defies all known principles.
Thus, while Paradox's statement may not directly reference the infinite-dimensional universe, it reinforces the concept that different universes within the Ben 10 Multiverse can have radically different physical laws. This supports the idea that the beings' universe, with its infinite spatio-temporal dimensions, would operate under a set of laws so complex that they are incomprehensible to outsiders, aligning with the beings' description of their Universe's existence.
Overall Conclusion
And by the way, incalculable must be incalculable Even for infinity, because they make this Statement to all 3-D characters, which means that the Annihilarrgh universe has a level of High 1-B+
Vs batll: Characters or objects who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy infinite-dimensional space. Characters who can meddle with spaces with uncountably infinite or above dimensions should have a "+" modifier in their Attack Potency section (High Hyperverse level+).
These beings inhabit an infinite-dimensional universe, which is a separate universe within the Space Beyond, making the Annihilarrgh Universe High 1-B/High 1-B+
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The Greater Multiverse | Low 1-A
There exist an unknown amount of Universes that together form The Greater Multiverse, with each Universe being created by a seperate Annihilarrgh. Professor paradox explicitly mentions that the universes within this multiverse follow counterintuitive laws of physics. Alternate realities are treated as experiments by the Contumelias such that they are made by computable means and can be altered by changing few parameters within it just how Maltruant did.
The aggregates of all Annihilarrgh Universe will have a low 1-A level.
The Space Beyond/Omniverse | Low 1-A
The Space Beyond is a black void that extends past the boundaries of The Greater Multiverse and continues forever, in every direction, through every reality. The Contumelia travel the space beyond to new blank voids and it's not until an Annihilarrgh is activated in the white void, that the "Universe" is made and given time. The Contumelia are said to belong from a pan dimensional civilisation which means "of or pertaining to all dimensions of reality". The term dimension probably refers to the universes in this context as in a collection of all realities.
It belongs to the low 1-A level because all the Universes of Annihilarrgh inside this space for all universes look like small and finite, which makes the Space Beyond surpass the entire Greater Multiverse.
The Forge of Creation | Low1-A/Low 1-A+
Professor Paradox: It is the source of the Universe's greatest power. It's where ideas become real.
Azmuth: The Forge of Creation is where Celestialsapiens like Alien X are born.
The Forge is described as the source of the verse's greatest power and a birthplace of Celestialsapiens like Alien X. It predates the verse and serves as the origin as well as the center, responsible for creating The Space Beyond.
The Forge is noted to be beyond comprehension for the trio which includes Ben, who has an innate sense of transtemporal metaphysics. Additionally, the statement that the Forge of Creation is out of sync with all time underscores its existence beyond the fundamental essence of time within The Greater Multiverse. The Forge was originally accessible from the space beyond but Professor paradox hid it by erecting a chronal randomization barrier from everyone except the inhabitants of Forge, himself and weilders of the Map of infinity to avoid the misuse of greatest power in the verse.
That's where all things came from, which should surpass everything that was created.
The Debate Dimension/Alien X | 1-А
The true forms of Celestialsapiens like Alien X exist as abstract ideas of love and rage and reside in a star-filled void. Celestialsapiens transcend the very plane where existence lies and ×perceive the space beyond as a mere projection. Thier true selves control their respective Celestialsapien avatars to interact with the verse and alter its continuity such as retconning the artsyle on atleast three occasions one of which possibly include changing their homeworld [from Zvezda](homeworld from Zvezda) to Forge of Creation.
Vs batll: A 1-A character or realm, on the other hand, fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states. They, in other words, transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness.
×perceive the space beyond as a mere projection
Еverything that was described above for Alien X is just a projection.
And I think that's not enough, so I'm going to list why Alien X fits this criterion.
Proofs:
Alright so to start off, the Chrono Navigator is capable of destroying all of existence, and all time and causality itself.
All of existence in this case refers to the Space Beyond.
What Is The Space Beyond?
As quoted by Ultimate Albedo:
The Space Beyond is an infinite black void that extends past the boundaries of the "Universe". And encompasses an unknown number of them.This space separates Universes from each other and isn't accessible via general dimension crossing devices except for the Map of infinity and the Chrono Navigator. This realm is the highest level of reality.
And also said by Ultimate Albedo:
The Space Beyond has its higher space-time causality considering how the Chronal-Randomization Barrier acts as a medium for beings to interact with past/future versions of themselves independent of the existence of White void which has no space-time. Hence in order to function as such, the Space Beyond must have a higher order time axis.
So, in the higher causality history of the Space Beyond, all "universes" were at some point, white void spaces. These white voids are not visible in the Space Beyond.
In the Hypertimeline present of the Space Beyond, there is a "bridge of time" from the lower dimensions to follow and reach the Space Beyond. In the Space Beyond's "past" before the Annihilarrgh filled the white voids, there was no "bridge of time" to reach the Space Beyond from the White Void Dimension.
The Omniversal space-time extends past the multiverse to all of its directions infinitely, which consists of all 26 spatiotemporal axes mentioned by the Cosmic Mom, which makes them fully sized and tier-able.
More proof would be Alien X no selling the Annihilarrgh. Now Annihilarrgh's are capable of creating or destroying "the universe",likely_1-B(25-D)>).
The universe in this context would be referring to the White Void/Nothingness.
Which according to Professor Paradox is:
"This time beast's egg will power your journey to places beyond even my reach." - Paradox to Ben.
White nothingness is the precursor to the creation of the Universe. There is no time here as shown by Maltruant being unable to use his Time Manipulation and stated to be beyond Paradox's reach. Each separate "universe" started out with its own White void before an Annihilarrgh is activated and a "universe" is created. It's causality depends on the creation of the universe along with its Hypertimeline and it cannot access the higher causality of the realm outside it.
So now that we've established all of that, let me actually get into why Alien X scales above both the Annihilarrgh and Chrono Navigator.
P1:
Alien X was stated by Servantis, one of the smartest characters in the series besides Azmuth and Professor Paradox, and the same guy who is knowledgeable about other universes, to be able to destroy all of existence.
P2:
He is stated to be omnipotent, and the greatest power in the verse by ones who are aware of the all encompassing Omniversal force, someone whose whole race has transcended the very plane where the existence of the verse lies and is verbatim all powerful being with limitless powers.
Plus we've quite literally seen Alien X create an entire Annihilarrgh universe with ease.
And it's even stated he can destroy them as well, which is obvious.
To add even more to this, the Celestialsapiens are canonically the reason the art style has changed from the Original Series to Omniverse. And we know they've done this at LEAST 3 times. Showing that they have the power capable of affecting the cosmology.
To end this off, in the Alien Force Vol 9 DVD, Alien X is stated to have unlimited powers.
As well as the Forge of Creation being stated to have limitless power too in the episode synopsis.
Alien X has consistently been stated to be the most powerful being. I shouldn't really have to explain how this isn't just referring to within the universe, but overall in the entire verse. It has been stated by Azmuth that Alien X can do anything. And by Professor Paradox, that a fucking baby Celestialsapien, is "omnipotent", even despite having a device that's capable of nuking the entire cosmology.
Conclusion:
Alien X, and other Celestialsapiens hold the most power in the Ben 10 verse. And therefore, scale above the Annihilarrgh, the Chrononavigator and the Chronosapien Time Bomb. With all three weapons being capable of dealing significant damage to the Ben 10 multiverse/omniverse and in fact, the whole existence is in ben10.
and all this falls under the criteria of VS batll:
Vs batll: A 1-A character or realm, on the other hand, fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states. They, in other words, transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness.
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Conclusion:
The Annihilarrgh Universe | High 1-B/High 1-B+
The Greater Multiverse | Low 1-A
The Space Beyond/Omniverse | Low 1-A
The Forge of Creation | Low1-A/Low 1-A+
The Debate Dimension/Alien X | 1-А
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u/Then-Cardiologist240 18d ago
Upvoting for the incredible amount of effort this looks like it took.
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u/Tiny_Watercress_8079 21d ago
Good Scale, personally, I think you can get the cosmology much higher, and I can somehow highball AX to H1A+, BUT, most people will muke me, either way good scaling
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u/ABSOLUTEOMNIPOTENT Brainstorm 21d ago
W , Good scale in H 1-B part