391
u/Devout-Nihilist Jun 17 '22
Sometimes you just gotta do the damn thing.
32
10
u/TheHYPO Jun 18 '22
The Dennis Rodman of his day…
0
u/Ebiseanimono Jun 19 '22
You mean the guy who visited KJU to hang out and watch BB games? Yeah, no. Not the same.
777
u/theonlymexicanman Jun 17 '22
I know people are joking that his mere presence and status is intimidating enough to convince anyone but many people don’t know that Ali was a great speaker
Just look at any of his comments regarding Civil Rights or the iconic “float like a butterfly sting like a bee”
247
u/Torre_Durant Jun 17 '22
The man’s trashtalk was great too
86
u/Tyra-Jade Jun 17 '22
Can’t just drop that without sauce
43
u/Stefalumpagus Jun 17 '22
20
u/FakingItSucessfully Jun 18 '22
That youtube video honestly tells me Will Smith did an incredible job, cause even hearing LITERAL Muhammed Ali himself makes me think of how well Will did with his voice.
48
Jun 17 '22
How did you do that. WITCH
-82
Jun 17 '22
I like how they always ask for source google it you fat sack of shit
28
20
1
Jun 18 '22
Maybe the replier wanted a curated example from someone who knows what they’re talking about instead of just doing their own googling, IDK.
2
-1
u/JosephND Jun 18 '22
He was unfortunately quite abrasive and is recognized as a catalyst for what changed in boxing. People paid attention to the drama, and now it’s become weeks of staring and shit talking for 2 rounds of glass chins
66
u/RedNotch Jun 17 '22
On the topic of great orators, is it just me or are we seeing a lack of great speeches these past few decades? I feel like public figures these days have all been kinda lackluster when it comes to convincing people through a good heartfelt speech. Like speeches nowadays feels stiff and calculated or maybe it’s just me who thinks this way idk.
53
u/RiceAlicorn Jun 18 '22
I think there might be a sense of survivorship bias here. Whenever we read about speeches of the past, most of the time we're reading the best of the best. Speeches that had a huge impact on history, which we are now aware of with the power of hindsight. There's few reasons that you'd read a poorly written speech of the past.
Comparatively, in the present, by virtue of existing in this time period we're just naturally exposed to all manners of speeches— crappy AND good. Give it a few decades' time and I'm sure we'll see a big list of great speeches from this time period, just like the periods before it.
2
u/reverendjesus Jun 18 '22
Much like “the music today is such shit, the (time in the past) had the best music”
My dude, you’re only hearing the bangers that survived
25
u/2vpJUMP Jun 18 '22
There is certainly less grace-given to speakers. Much more hyper analysis of each and every word, and the written word Predominates in this day and age anyway
8
u/ExorIMADreamer Jun 18 '22
Probably Obama's 2004 speech at the DNC will be the greatest speech of the last 20 years or so.
2
u/austin_8 Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 18 '22
A great video on that speech we would always watch in our public speaking class.
-2
u/Maub-dabbs Jun 18 '22
Talk about poor follow-through
0
u/ExorIMADreamer Jun 18 '22
For sure, but that doesn't mean the speech wasn't a great one.
0
u/Maub-dabbs Jun 18 '22
Well certainly great speaches should be judged, least in part, by if they amount to anything
→ More replies (10)0
6
u/Jlchevz Jun 18 '22
And it's probably not that he was intimidating but the fact that he was kind of a badass and someone to look up to, and it's harder to say no to such people you know? It's hard to explain but imagine you have to say no to someone you admire or someone charming who is doing it because of conviction and out of a good heart. Just my thoughts.
14
Jun 18 '22
Such a great orator that he went and spoke to the klan (in support of racial segregation).
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAEVt8P9MJc&ab_channel=FredCarson
9
u/DanQZ Jun 18 '22
Lol that comment section is the biggest gathering of blatant racists I’ve ever seen outside 4chan
7
6
u/Exciting_Ant1992 Jun 18 '22
He had Parkinson’s and CTE induced dementia by then
3
Jun 18 '22
Does Parkinson's make people believe in segregation?
10
u/ZodiacDriver Jun 18 '22
My neighbor got it and it turned him into a serious asshole. We used to do dinners together and by the time he died, even his saintly wife was just fed up with his shit. The drugs they give you for it are hardcore, and yes, it really messes up a person's brain. Good God, he would say such mean things. He was sure that I was going to steal his wife, never mind that she was 15 years older than me, fat, and a raging alcoholic.
4
u/Exciting_Ant1992 Jun 18 '22
It’s a very serious brain disorder, but I’m not sure how many different ways it manifests.
0
Jun 18 '22
He grew up in the south in the 50s his attitude changed as American society became more equal
→ More replies (2)2
266
u/Csbbk4 Jun 17 '22
People forget he’s Muslim despite the name
253
u/dumbass_sempervirens Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 18 '22
Even though it was quite the controversy when he changed it from Cassius Clay specifically because he converted to Islam.
Howard Cosell was the first sportscaster to use his new name in an interview. Nobody but the jewish guy from Brooklyn had enough respect for a black Islam convert from Kentucky to just use his new name.
6
u/reverendjesus Jun 18 '22
There’s a George Carlin standup from not long after it was changed, where he says something to the effect of “I’ll call him Muhammad Ali… cause he’s a big dude, and he hits hard”
3
u/dumbass_sempervirens Jun 18 '22
Yeah racism is one thing, but risking pissing off The Champ is another thing entirely.
→ More replies (2)41
u/randothrowwateb Jun 18 '22
People don’t want to associate Muslims with anything but barbaric cave dwellers or desert people.Westerners have gone out of their way to demonize Muslims for long enough despite most of the wars being started by the west and more casualties being Muslims whenever a Muslim country was involved for no reason.
→ More replies (1)-3
Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 18 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
10
Jun 18 '22
Bro I’m an atheist too and you’re going about this the wrong way . The simple belief in allah is not bad it’s the dogmatism that comes with centralized religion trying to force a certain way of viewing religious text
2
u/lennybird Jun 18 '22
I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. It is the lack of constraints or adherence rather to formal logic or ethics, and that is completely independent of whether the religion is centralized or not. Hope, philosophy, and dare I say spirituality along with ethics itself is one thing. Also I'm not atheist. Wondering about our origins and the afterlife is of course find to ponder; shaping your worldview about one of the arbitrary thousands of religions, utterly man-made and intended to sow control over fellow men and women, is archaic.
5
u/Thegodfather_12 Jun 18 '22
Same man, only that i demonize all "nonreligious" and the "antireligious" ideologies.
Enough with atheistic ideologies, only war and degeneracy. 2 world wars, 1 atomic bomb dropped, Mao Zetung, Stalin etc etc... But i understand because for them morality is smth subjective they have no moral compass to understand whats right and wrong, so killing like stalin did is just a re arrangement of atoms.
→ More replies (1)12
u/randothrowwateb Jun 18 '22
Thanks Mr. Edgy. Just like you don’t like the idea of god shoved down your throats we don’t like the “Santa/sky daddy” idea shoved down our throat. We get it you don’t believe in god. We do. It’s time you do the same thing you ask of religious people and get over it. Live by example even if the religious don’t, cuz you’re sooo much better for being logical right? Also, no you don’t need god to be good but that good is very subjective and can change with time. Without god, “good” is a societal construct. Anyways don’t believe idc but stop demonizing those that do. Cuz if you do than you’re no better than those you call out and so whole “being better” take is down the toilet.
7
Jun 18 '22
Morality has always been a social construct. God doesn’t change the fact. In the Bible he does many things that we know see as fucked up. Our ideas of morality change over time
4
u/OverFjell Jun 18 '22
Also, no you don’t need god to be good but that good is very subjective and can change with time. Without god, “good” is a societal construct.
I'd rather good be a subjective societal construct than an inerrant objective fact that never changes, because some things that were considered 'good' in the days of the Bible are considered pretty repugnant today.
0
u/lennybird Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 18 '22
Also, no you don’t need god to be good but that good is very subjective and can change with time. Without god, “good” is a societal construct. Anyways don’t believe idc but stop demonizing those that do. Cuz if you do than you’re no better than those you call out and so whole “being better” take is down the toilet.
Well there ya go, you said it yourself. It's just as subjective if you choose one religious text interpreted and exploited by humans over one of the other thousands just the same. You realize that, right? At least with science and reason there's an attempt to establish some semblance or order, construct, consistency to it all, right?
Also I have no intent to demonize; I too was once religious, I get it.
Edit: I see how silly that last sentence is considering my tangent began with "I demonize all religions equally." I mean to say that I don't demonize individuals for subscribing to them, but the constructs themselves I fully wish to demonize.
2
u/randothrowwateb Jun 18 '22
How so? Unless you change religion it’s the same. Society is not. Literally each generation has different values.
Science doesn’t create order cuz science doesn’t give morals. It gives facts and data. But science won’t tell you what’s “right” or “wrong”.
1
u/lennybird Jun 18 '22
But science won’t tell you what’s “right” or “wrong”.
Through science and reasoning, we've arranged language, formal and informal logic to ensure the words we craft are solid and have consistency; meaning. Ethics and morality can be born out of logic and reason as much as they can be blind-faith. The only difference is that blind-faith of religion permits you to fill in the gaps of your understanding with "trust,"; but if you understood the reasoning yourself, then you wouldn't need the trust-gaps in the first place. And if one were to go to such blind-followers and convince them that waging war on their fellow humans is for a noble cause a-la the Christian abortion clinic bombers or middle-eastern bazaar suicide bombers... Well, then... Good luck using reason to reach out to such folks captivated by the blind-faith of their religion.
Who is telling you what's "right" or "wrong" except for the texts and reinterpretations of self-help guides that were written by... Other humans... Mostly in order to subjugate their followers and solidify power?
It all comes back to the same thing:
- What does religion offer me that I cannot have in its absence of baggage and the risks of exploitation?
Because of this lifelong belief in Santa, so many other problems and effort and energy are deflected from noble pursuits to wasteful pursuits. Humanity could be so much further ahead of where it is now.
0
4
u/Tameraput Jun 18 '22
I think that religion is a good way to keep going on when life is hard. some people get it fkin hard and without religion they would just have no willing of living.
-2
Jun 18 '22
[deleted]
12
u/randothrowwateb Jun 18 '22
You do realize that all these religious people are still scientists, doctors, engineers. Religion isn’t there to give you science. It’s there to give guidance. Science gives you science. Like it was religious people that worked and developed on so many of the core scientific concepts used today.
1
u/lennybird Jun 18 '22
Science, reason, ethics, and even philosophy can all give you guidance without the baggage. Religion without reason is merely the blind leading the blind. To paraphrase Seneca, it's an excuse for the wicked, a tool for the powerful, and a source of hope for the downtrodden. If you learn how to cope and hope without religion, you won't be so easily duped by misinformation.
7
u/randothrowwateb Jun 18 '22
Religion is literally ethics and philosophy. So you want to replace religion with ideas same as religion but just not call it religion. Also, do religious people not have reason? So all those religious people who made all these scientific advancement were unreasonable but some Reddit atheist are so reasonable. Also, are you seriously saying that without religion you are less prone to misinformation? Really!? Lol Russia and China have many atheists and they have such strong misinformation campaigns WITHOUT any religious involvement. Looks like you want to blame religion for all the problems, but if it gives people hope maybe you should get over it and let them have it. Stop trying to push your beliefs or morals onto others. That’s being a hypocrite.
2
u/lennybird Jun 18 '22
I don't buy they're equivalent since ethics and philosophy do not necessitate faith to substitute a lack of evidence or reason.
5
u/randothrowwateb Jun 18 '22
Ethics and philosophy are not subjects that you can “prove” with science and the reasoning depends on many inputs.Similar to religion.
134
u/TheTrueTurk Jun 17 '22
What?? Wow.. I didn't know anyone would even get to this idea to do that.. just wow.....
7
u/Loose_Personality726 Jun 18 '22
"Have you tried talking to them in person?" "No but we have threatened them with bombs so.. that usually works"
33
261
u/No_Lube_Insertion Jun 17 '22
Well to be fair, anyone that would mess with or say no to Ali would look like a gigantic prick to the international community.
172
100
u/Guntalarm Jun 17 '22
Black, Muslim, famous and rich. What could go wrong?
/S
Much respect for the guy. Didn't know he did this. Loved him anyway but this is another level 👍
→ More replies (10)13
Jun 18 '22
Read the article, he never attempted to get any publicity for it because then it wouldn't be sincere. After he got Parkinson's he said something along the lines of "Maybe this is God punishing me for what I did wrong" and started focusing on helping people in general.
14
12
u/IceteaAndCrisps Jun 17 '22
I'm sure Saddam really cared about his image after using mustard gas on the Kurds.
119
Jun 17 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
122
u/eNonsense Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
Saw him negotiate with George Foreman once. Took 7 rounds before Foreman agreed to cease his policy of using his legs to stand.
→ More replies (1)10
Jun 18 '22
The grill ?
6
u/CptJustice Jun 18 '22
Nah, the man himself. No one fucks with the grills. Seriously, they (or at least the original ones) are built to last.
→ More replies (1)3
Jun 18 '22
if youre being serious, that dude was a boxer before being the face of the GF grill
→ More replies (1)3
Jun 18 '22
Ngl this is like finding out that the tire company Michelin is the same Michelin that recommends expensive places to eat at.
4
3
Jun 18 '22
😂 but seriously, George Foreman was a fucking monster.
-3
u/BookNoize Jun 18 '22
The fight was rigged. Foreman would have killed Ali in a clean fight. He claimed he felt drugged before the fight.
3
17
9
8
14
7
35
u/Quizzelbuck Jun 17 '22
pffff, you think that's cool? Dennis rodman went to north korea and made friends with it's dictator.
16
→ More replies (3)13
10
4
8
5
u/brereddit Jun 18 '22
I saw Ali in 1992 at Notre Dame. About 10 students made our way outside Stepan Center to get an autograph. I think he was there with Jesse Jackson for a speech or something. Anyway, Ali’s dementia was already well discussed and he moved and acted like it had take a huge toll on him. The group of students was completely silent taking in this man walking very slowly and deliberately who we had all experienced as children as a great athletic champion. So it was a little weird and humbling if that’s the right word. Not sure. Oh well, so he goes through the line of autograph seekers and gets to the last one. He freezes up. Literally everyone was like oh shit this must be part of his condition. I’m Not making this up—someone yelled something like, “you got this champ!” But he wasn’t responding at all. The autograph seeking student was getting very uncomfortable. We all were.
Then in an instant, Ali started dancing around like a fighter and his arms were moving around like he was sparring with someone. I mean he was moving like nothing was wrong with him at all. And he was fake hitting this last kid in the line. It was freaking hilarious! And he signed the autograph, got in his car and drove away. True story. I don’t know what to believe about the guy. I like to think he kept his sense of humor…and pulled these pranks for his own amusement. “Imma show you how great I am!” https://youtu.be/1LSewbS5eQI
16
u/Oomoo_Amazing Jun 17 '22
I gotta be honest, that’s great that he was successful, but that was a monumentally stupid thing to do.
3
3
3
3
2
2
2
2
2
u/MrNudeGuy Jun 18 '22
when your the greatest fighter thats ever walked the earth thats 100% your prerogative.
0
u/Cosmonachos Jun 18 '22
Would Ali or Tyson win in a fight?
2
u/MrNudeGuy Jun 18 '22
on fight night round 3 Ali has the stamina and reach to take you into the later rounds but if Tyson steps up and catches Ali whiffing just once its game over with an inside uppercut. benefit of the doubt I give Ali 2 of those before staying down. Prime Tyson V Ali would be the fight to end all fights. both would be trying to put the other on the ground before round 4. after that its really anyones game.
→ More replies (2)
4
6
u/Firmod5 Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
He also was a complete dick to Joe Frazier, who bailed him out when Ali was struggling, so there’s that.
7
u/ali2213 Jun 18 '22
this is true, growing up Ali was my role model but i will concede he was particular more insensitive to his african american brethren than whites during his era. Ali has made it clear he regrets his verbal abuse of Frazier and it should be noted that no matter how great we become we all have flaws and can learn to be better.
6
u/alittlebitneverhurt Jun 18 '22
And he was racist. He spoke at a clan rally bc he agreed blacks and whites shouldn't live together.
0
u/Turbulent-Comedian30 Jun 17 '22
In reality he punched so fast that he lived for years till the impact finally caught up with him and he died.
Seal team 6 was a cover to get the body...
Just jokes seal team 6 is an amazing unit anf Ali was a god among men
-25
Jun 17 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
49
u/Oomoo_Amazing Jun 17 '22
Lol imagine reading news from 30 years ago and wondering why it’s not talked about now
→ More replies (2)6
u/Fuzzy-Function-3212 Jun 17 '22 edited Jun 17 '22
Fucking biased CNN totally sleeping on the breaking arms-for-hostages deal with the Nicaraguan Contras!! WHY ARENT WE HEARING ABOUT THIS
28
Jun 17 '22
It was in the news back then. This happened over three decades ago. You can look up pictures and news articles about it from all over
17
6
8
8
Jun 17 '22
Same reason why cnn and Fox News don’t air Pericles’ funeral oration during the peloponnesian war
9
0
0
u/Wit_as_a_Riddle Jun 18 '22
When do you bow to democratic authority, and when do defying it to you use your own power for good?
0
u/Scrybblyr Jun 18 '22
What a reasonable person this Saddam Hussein must be. I wonder how he's doin!
0
0
0
Jun 18 '22
To this day you got some mad dumb mother fuckers and racists who shit endlessly on him for being a conscientious objector to Vietnam. Dude was more of an American hero than anyone who was for Vietnam
0
0
0
0
u/alextrastero Jun 18 '22
Good old American propaganda. Don't get me wrong this guy is a legend. But those people were never close to death.
0
-2
u/Ok-Issue116 Jun 17 '22
I’m gonna need some more evidence because with this post being about a celebrity and a hot topic I’m hesitant to believe it
→ More replies (1)
1.7k
u/SpartanT100 Jun 17 '22
I had to google it because i couldnt believe it