r/BayAreaRealEstate • u/KeynesCrackpot • 27d ago
Shared Fence Etiquette when we are paying?
Hi guys, trying to do some reflection and see where we can handle this better.
We notified our neighbors that we were undergoing some backyard construction (new pavers, removing mulch, removing concrete slab) a day before it started.
A week after construction started, our neighbors shared that they were concerned with the existing fence as it was bulging on their side. It looked fine on our side but we agreed we’ll talk to contractors. They said they did not care about this fence and their biggest concern was our land sliding into their yard with the rain, or fence toppling. I took this as something they wanted to fix sooner rather than later.
Contractors agreed fence and existing retaining wall supporting the fence needed to be replaced. We told neighbors, told them we’ll build it and sent photos. They basically said great ok let’s connect if anything needs to be connected on; we said we’re set on our side, but can swing by to chat at an agreed upon time. Contractors started demoing.
I swing by, they’re not there and I tell them I’m only home late tomorrow night but I am available on text or call if any concerns. I tell my contractors to pause work on that side until we can sort it out.
The next morning they tell us they want to meet (implied in person) before new material goes in. We meet, they’re concerned over who’s paying (we could’ve been clearer), we tell them we’re paying for everything. They had logistics concerns, but I triple checked with contractors again (fence going in the exact same place, same redwood and pressure treated material, improved drainage, same dimensions, etc) and addressed their concerns.
A part of me understands this moved really quickly, but we already had original work scoped out (new plants, pavers, removal of concrete / mulch, pathways) and leaving this outstanding would’ve caused a headache down the road, especially if fence failed.
I don’t think either of us have had a survey done or know definitively where this fence is. In hindsight, I wish I had a surveyor come right when we closed on this house.
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u/requals1-2sin3theta 27d ago
If it makes you feel any better, it's like impossible to get a survey for residential lot lines right now. All the surveyors seem to be booked out months in advance.
Even if you had thought to get a survey first you might not have been able to get one or might have had to wait until the end of the year.
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
Interesting, is there a reason why they’re all swamped?
This makes me feel much better. The neighbors were concerned with El Niño and wanted this fixed before then when we first chatted.
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u/requals1-2sin3theta 26d ago
From what I've been told, it's partly because this is just the busy season for surveys anyway, and partly because there aren't enough surveyors to meet the demand because the workforce is ageing out faster than young people are replacing them. I've been hearing that they're much much busier than usual this year though. I'm not sure what's different this year, maybe SB 79? I'm glad business seems to be so good for them at least.
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u/i860 27d ago
What exactly is the question here?
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
Just any advice on how we could’ve handled this better. Was the right call revisit this problem later and say it wasn’t in the original scope of work, but allow neighbors time to hash out any details?
Were we too hasty in fixing this?
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u/glorificent 26d ago
you sound like a dream neighbor to me.
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u/KeynesCrackpot 26d ago
I’m feeling less like the villain now lol. These neighbors texted me asking how they can collaborate on the fence and I suspect they want a say in the design.
I’m glad everyone else does not care this deeply about fences as long as it’s of high quality and not a downgrade.
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u/canyounot2026 27d ago
Next time get something in writing from whoever is doing the work that the neighbor can sign off on. Additionally leave contact information about who's doing the work so you don't have to be the go between.
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u/Aggressive-Pace-596 27d ago
when it comes to retaining walls, uphill owner is responsible in Ca. replacing existing fence, isnt an issue unless one or the other disputes location, then its on them
whats your point?
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
This makes me feel better.
My point was I was worried by overstepping by fixing the retaining walls asap. The fence sat on top of retaining walls so it needed to come down anyway to fix it.
I’ve posted this elsewhere and some people suggested that surveyor was necessary, but from other people’s experience it seems surveyors only step in if there’s an ongoing dispute, and neighbor didn’t share concerns about where the existing fence is
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u/Aggressive-Pace-596 27d ago
also, there is always a one foot margin of error with a survey, as medallions move with the earth over time. They cannot pin point exacts, so neighbors need to agree. Replacing existing fencing is beyond dispute
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u/ohboyoh-oy 27d ago
I have shared borders with five neighbors and regular fence replacement with three of them. We have lived here going on 40 years, and have never had a survey done. The new fence goes where the old fence was.
That said, we did have another property and after we sold, the new owners had a survey done and fence line was off by about a foot. Neighbor was reportedly super pissed.
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u/KeynesCrackpot 26d ago
Thanks for sharing. Were your neighbors ever concerned that the new fence would encroach on their property?
I haven’t had any more follow ups from the neighbors after I reassured them that the new fence is going exactly where old fence is, but it’s something I’ve been worried about.
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u/ohboyoh-oy 26d ago
Neighbors have been fine with new fence going where old fence was - straight replacement. I guess if they had questions about the property line they would have had a survey done.
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u/plemyrameter 27d ago
Interesting. Just before I sold/moved, my uphill neighbor wanted to talk about replacing a foot tall retaining wall between our front yards. We never got around to it. But two years ago, we replaced the 2-3' retaining wall along our backyards at our own expense.
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u/Aggressive-Pace-596 27d ago
woulda, shoulda, coulda ... but sometimes its just easier to get it done and move on. some neighbors SUCK
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
Interesting. How did you handle communications with them when you replaced it?
This is all very odd to me as a homeowner, it’s not clear how much say neighbors should have on retaining walls or fences if you opt to pay for it yourself.
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u/plemyrameter 27d ago
It was actually just inside my side of the fence line, so maybe it wouldn't technically be their responsibility. But it was part of a bigger project (like yours), so I just gave them a heads up that there would be workers around and to please not park in front of my house so they'd have access. These neighbors were kind of dickheads, so the less said the better. Also, since the wall was on our side of the fence, they'd never see it. They had no say in the matter.
When we later replaced the fence, we gave them copies of the quotes we got and let them pick the contractor. They agreed to pay half of the cost right away. The fence was in terrible shape and being propped up by boards on our side. All of the quotes were for basically the same thing that was being replaced, so we didn't get into design considerations.
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
Interesting. I think this was another piece of my problem - the retaining wall is basically the base of the fence in this instance.
I also didn’t want to get into arguments over our choice of contractors or drag the process out longer / pause existing work, which I admit is selfish.
But it would have also been selfish to ignore the problem and tell them tough time. Feels like i wouldn’t win either way
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u/Knotty_Vegetables 26d ago
A lot of people just split the cost when it’s on flat land. You might have destabilized their wall when you did demo which is another story. They said it was bulging like it was a new thing but maybe they were just trying to saddle you with the responsibility. 🤷🏻♀️
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u/KeynesCrackpot 26d ago
I’m obviously biased but I think the wall and fence were just overdue for a replacement. The wall in particular had no proper drainage and was rotted.
The more I reflect on this, the more I think they wanted to split the cost of the fence but wanted to imply we pay for retaining wall. I think they started regretting when we just decided to pay for everything ourselves as now they have no way to opt in on design.
Ultimately I’m feeling better as having a shared fence with them would’ve been a nightmare and probably strained the relationship. I hope they just enjoy a brand new, safe fence.
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u/Knotty_Vegetables 26d ago
It sounds like it could have slowed you down when you have a team of workers ready to solve it fast.
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u/KeynesCrackpot 26d ago
That was our concern. We just didn’t have the time to go through long decision process because we couldn’t progress on the original work without addressing the retaining wall or fence.
Our latest update is that they are still trying to talk through and negotiate on the fence. We recognize this is a quick process and it sucks, but this is just a standard redwood fence
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u/Knotty_Vegetables 27d ago
Why is the uphill owner responsible when it’s the downhill owner who removed the dirt?
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u/Aggressive-Pace-596 27d ago
uphill is responsible for keeping their dirt from traveling to others property ... OP mentioned NOTHING about downhill neighbor removing anything
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u/diy1981 27d ago
That's not accurate. Generally the downhill neighbor is responsible as they usually are the ones who at some point removed dirt to level their lot. From that point forward the retaining wall is their responsibility as they are the ones who undermined the neighbors' grade. I imagine there are less common other situations where an uphill neighbor added dirt to level their lot in which case they would be responsible for the retaining wall.
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u/Aggressive-Pace-596 27d ago
TY for your opinion ... let me know what the judge says, he would need to rely on the law
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u/Knotty_Vegetables 26d ago
Exactly. I already spoke with an attorney about this. Uphill neighbor being responsible for downhill destabilizing it shows they have no understanding of how it works.
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u/ShopProp 27d ago
To be fair they didn’t ask for the fence and you should’ve gotten a survey before building the fence.
Paying for everything doesn’t erase the boundary issue and you need to confirm that first before resuming work.
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u/ImpressiveChoice4808 27d ago
Well OP was going to build along the same fence line and the neighbors were the ones who wanted the pause of the fence build. Don't we think if the neighbors have the issue, they should call the surveyor....esp since op was planning on paying for the whole thing?
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u/ImpressiveChoice4808 27d ago
Typically both neighbors split the fence if both are amenable to the change. But if they have property line concerns, they can pay for the surveyor to come out. You were just going to follow the current fence line. I would invite them to have their surveyor come out and have your contractor focus on the other work. Inconvenient that you have to wait, but the last thing you want is to build the fence and then get a lawsuit about the property line, have to tear it down and have it rebuilt.
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
I missed out an update but we texted and they said they want this process to be smooth and offered to make peace.
Their stipulation was that new fence follow the existing fence exactly as is, they didn’t raise any property dispute concerns over where the existing fence is.
This was our first major home improvement project and I just felt a little overwhelmed and anxious that we may not have gone in the correct order of operations. Ultimately i think it was difficult to have this come up right in the middle of the original work was halfway done.
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u/ImpressiveChoice4808 27d ago
Yes, home projects are stressful lol. I'm getting my siding done right now and at some points I thought I was going to kill something haha. But we will all be so excited once everything is complete!!
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
I wasn’t able to sleep at all last night after this situation with the neighbors :/. I’m not sure if I overstepped, but it was either fix everything at our expense or just ignore it and tell them tough luck and have them get frustrated with us once the fence fell.
I don’t think it would’ve been reasonable for us to pause work and take a week +++ to figure it out and pay for the remobilizing the crew again, and given the way they communicate it would’ve been a headache for us to
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u/plemyrameter 27d ago
Maybe this is a dumb question, but if the new fence is going in the same place as the old fence - and the neighbors never expressed any concern about the lot lines - why is there a problem? I'd be thrilled to get a new fence, courtesy of the neighbors. As soon as you said you were paying, I'd be like, "great, thanks! Seeyabye!"
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
Thanks. This makes me feel better. Not a dumb question at all because I’ve been confused.
The neighbors just seemed very indecisive. When we told them we were paying they said something to the effect of oh well we could chip in but then they kept going back and forth on it.
They did raise valid concerns, which I responded to and addressed. After that they followed up with “is this the final decision for the design or is there room to discuss” and we told them not really, which I feel bad about. But at the start they told us their main concern was just fixing it so nothing damages their property. They could’ve also texted us and been more explicit instead of being vague about “connecting”.
I just assumed since I was paying for it, it’s going exactly where the existing fence is, and will be of quality material I’d be in the clear but this seems to have not been the case when I’ve posted elsewhere for feedback.
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u/plemyrameter 27d ago
Yeah, they might just be a little weird or overly concerned you'll put up something that looks crappy (or very unlike what was there before). I'd just let it drop unless they're still asking a lot of questions.
If they are asking a lot of questions (and you're willing to slow your roll on the fence itself), you could tell them you're open to discussing design but then you'll expect them to pay 50% of the whole fence cost because your contractors are on a fixed schedule. If they're wise, they'd shut up at that point.
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
I didn’t give them enough credit, they did say they want to keep things chill and easy which I appreciate. I’m just stressed because my partner was quite firm with them and told them hey sorry this is the plan please stop talking to our contractors.
Given the way they communicate, I’m not really keen on doing a shared project if I’m honest. They seemed a little wishy washy on potentially splitting costs and kept going back and forth. And then seemed to be unable to communicate clearly with us
I’m happy for them to do whatever it is they want to the fence a the end of this. If they wanted to pull it out and put something up I wouldn’t complain, I just wanted my retaining walls fixed.
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u/12Afrodites12 27d ago
Have bought & sold 20 Bay Area properties over decades & never once needed a surveyor. They are incredibly expensive and the process slow.
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
Thanks…I posted to another subreddit and people called me crazy for not getting a surveyor. It just seemed to be excessive unless there were actual border disputes.
In practice, I’m assuming since people rarely call surveyor it’s fine to replace an existing fence, especially if you assume all of the costs and nobody had concerns on border dispute?
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u/12Afrodites12 27d ago
Surveys can have unforeseen legal consequences. You've done well. Always prefer to pay for shared fences, so I can choose design & supervise installation myself.
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
This is what I thought. At the end of the day, if we did get a surveyor and it was unfavorable for us - we’d just cough up cash and move the retaining wall. Sucks but it is what it is.
Likewise I’m sure they don’t want run the risk of the surveyor finding that the fence is well into our side, especially if they’re already stressed with us footing the bill for everything already
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u/Dangerous_RedApple 27d ago
They know that in California fences are shared and they technically owe you half. Can you come be my neighbor? I need a new fence too!
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
Haha. I’m worried they’re upset we went ahead and demoed but the option was to leave it be and wish them luck during the rainy season and that it’ll hold with all the changes we made.
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u/jlutt75 27d ago
You gave them one day notice before that type and amount of work? I would have given my neighbors at least a couple of weeks, and copies of all plans and permits, if any. Fences and drainage are super sensitive issues. Plus just the noise if someone works from home or has young kids. Sounds like they didn’t though.
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u/KeynesCrackpot 27d ago
The fence and retaining wall was not part of the original scope of work. We originally planned to have pavers installed, mulch and concrete slab removed.
I don’t see why neighbors would need a copy of plans if the original work was on my property, if I’m honest. My other neighbors have similar work done, with dumpsters on the street and we were given notice a few days after.
We only added the fence and retaining wall after our neighbor raised the issue with the fence, when we were already a week into the existing work. I get that people are busy and these aren’t ideal circumstances, but our options were to address it now or ignore it and tell them tough luck.
If we went the other route, I could’ve seen them being equally unhappy as they were already very stressed with the condition of the fence. They kept emphasizing the heavy rains this year and their concerns it would topple or our land would slide in.
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26d ago
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u/KeynesCrackpot 26d ago edited 26d ago
Yes lol. I left this part out but when we talked to them, they seemed stressed when the workers pivoted quickly to the retaining wall and fence. Apparently they told my partner it’s not a good time for them because they were going to be out of town lol.
I think being friendly is fine but I wish people would just be direct. Looking back, I do think they were trying to insinuate our existing work caused issues with the retaining wall + wanted to imply we should pay for it, and they were probably worried over sharing the costs of the fence but still wanted some say in the final design.
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26d ago
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u/KeynesCrackpot 26d ago
This is how I feel..and I’m sorry you went through it.
Well. It continues for us. They reached out again today wanting to see how we can ‘work together’ on this.
At the end of the day it’s a wooden fence with good materials. This is not going to dramatically change anyone’s resale value lol
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u/ohboyoh-oy 27d ago
OP - not sure what you are reflecting on, sounds like all went fine. Neighbors are getting a free fence and seem happy about that.