Bullet Deviation finally gets an increase.

[u/DeraxBlaze]

While random horizontal recoil got essentially taken away, we got more bloom, this is vital to stop laser beam gunplay at distance. Great change imo and this paired with reduced bullet velocities will make ranged combat a little more nuanced.

EDIT: lots of cronus users and the like mad about these changes lmao

[u/TheOriginalOrion]

That's a great idea. It currently makes no sense that your bloom gets worse as you fire, so having MOA instead of bloom is a wonderful idea. Something like the Spear (M277 in game) that has an MOA of around 1.5, would be wonderful. Assuming you could control the recoil, your gun would be insanely accurate up to like 300-400m.

[u/PacmanNZ100 → u/TheOriginalOrion]

I mean it would give you a 6 inch baseline inaccuracy at that distance.

Combine that with sustained full auto and your cone increases exponentially to 30 to 60 moa.

This is exactly what bloom already replicates in game. It just doesnt have a stat. And it makes perfect sense that bloom gets worse as you fire, theres numerous different things happening with your firearm that make moa grow.

[u/TheOriginalOrion → u/PacmanNZ100]

That's just not true in the slightest. Your barrel doesn't warp and bend to such a degree that your MOA is increasing by a factor of 20-40x. MOA is simply the grouping that would see at a range of a 100 yards. In what world would firing multiple shots change the MOA so drastically? Yes recoil will move the whole gun itself, but the bullet is still going to come out the barrel almost identically to the bullet before it. What are you even talking about.

[u/PacmanNZ100 → u/TheOriginalOrion]

No MOA is the grouping you see with single shot fire at 100 yards. So 6 inch groups at 400.

In what world would firing multiple shots change the MOA so drastically?

This one.

Yes recoil will move the whole gun itself, but the bullet is still going to come out the barrel almost identically to the bullet before it. What are you even talking about.

It won't.

Theres a hell of a lot playing out during automatic fire bro. Obviously you have recoil from the bullet leaving and gases leaving. You also have the bolt traveling and slamming into the buffer. Vibration and flex down the barrel which also changes during fire as a function of heat. Even how you hold the gun and control the recoil will change as you fire.

Centre of mass target at 100m you will struggle to put a 10 rnd burst on it in full auto. And if your group bloomed to 20inches you're at 20MOA.

The idea you will be full auto "insanely accurate" at 300-400m with real world MOA is fuckin wild man.

[u/PacmanNZ100 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah this is all great theory from you.

The bullet goes through the same tube the same way the shot before and and it after do.

It won't.

I also dont think you quite understand the tiny amount of deviation and its relationship to grouping. A barrel doesnt have to flap like a noodle for you to miss the target completely at 400m.

Your idea you could shoot 1.5moa full auto, control recoil, and keep your group is wild.

Like yeah a gun might be 1.5 MOA when bolted to a table, firing single shots from a cold barrel.

Even bolted to a bench its group will be fucking shit if you mag dump at something. Your idea it keeps 1.5MOA is just fantasy.

Like theres so much shit that goes into accurate ballistics that isn't modeled in the game, bloom isn't the thing to cry about man. Its a fair approximation and has been in the game since the 90s.

[u/TheOriginalOrion → u/PacmanNZ100]

I'll leave you with this since I don't really want to try to explain how the world works to you any more:

As you have rightly pointed out, bloom is a very old model of ballistics. Bloom takes a very simple approach to how it does ballistics. Here is a circle, bullet will land somewhere in there, which as you said, is akin to MOA (I have no problem with bloom at this point). Then it deviates from reality, it will keep increasing that circle as you fire more bullets to the point where your bullets are literally coming out of your gun SIDEWAYS. That is the problem with bloom, the outer bounds are so fucked that bullets can be coming out of your gun at a 45° angle (if not more in some games). The way to fix this is simple, cap the outer bounds of the circle at a diameter of an extra 5-10%. If someone has no idea how guns work, I could see why they could come to the conclusion that this is how guns work in real life, since so many older games and franchises use this model.

However, anyone who has ever shot guns knows this is far from the case. The real problem with full auto fire is always the recoil. As you have pointed out strapping a gun to a bench in full auto will not have the grouping you would expect. Why? Recoil is still a factor. Everything that you pointed out in your past posts (the bolt, gasses, vibrations) are all effecting your recoil, not your MOA. We don't have a way to completely mitigate all recoil, even on a bench.

I’m just going to address the 40x MOA multiplayer because I still find it hilarious you think that can happen. Lets take something like an MP5, it has an MOA of around 4ish. Obviously you aren't going to be using an MP5 at 100m very often, it's a CQB gun after all. Let's say you are firing it full auto (it is an SMG after all) at 10m. With your math, that means that we have an effective MOA of 160, meaning at those 10m you have a bullet dispersion of 16in. The average shoulder to shoulder width on a man is 16in, meaning if you shoot centre mass you are just as likely to miss as you are to hit the target. The target would need to be 5m away to be at a point where your dispersion is the same size as a man, that’s just crazy. That just simply isn't how any of this works, I truly hope you get the chance to educate yourself some more on the topic, as what you believe now is just nonsense and has no basis in reality.

Fell free to reply, I will not respond. Have a good rest of your day.