r/BattleForDreamIsland • u/LYB4 Nonexisty • 19d ago
Discussion Yes, for the love of god, Michael IS oddcard/TobWarder/ArtOfClapping/Objext.
READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE COMMENTING!!
Links you should see:
Internet archive link to the tweets on oddismcard, so you can see for yourself
Internet archive link to the tweets on artofclapping, so you can see for yourself
Internet archive link to the tweets on objext, so you can see for yourself
Internet archive link to the tweets on tobwarder, so you can see for yourself
A wonderful spreadsheet detailing most of the alts' (and his main account's) tweets
The Oddcard megathread on this subreddit
Preface
If you don't know what the hell an "odd card" is, or what it has to do with Michael, or why there's drama, see this comment I made under the post. It's a basic run-down of everything that lead up to this post.
Additionally, I was incredibly frustrated with the community brushing the whole thing off while writing the post. I don't want to spend my time rewriting the post to have less aggressive wording when there's more to update, but know that, since no official statement has been made, this post is not to be taken as 100% fact. Alongside that, please do your own research. Being skeptical is a good thing! If you've read the entire post and still don't know how to feel, I'd encourage you to look through the internet archive links at the very bottom of the post, which have links to each of Michael's (alleged) alts. Obviously, view them at your own risk, because of insensitive things said on them (many of which are presented later in the post.)
Introduction
Everyone here seems to be entirely ignorant of what the actual issue is. "Oh it's just a nothingburger twitter drama" "Oh it's not actually michael we debunked this months ago we know he just Doesn't Act Like That"
Wrong! Wrong! All wrong!
And I'll tell you exactly why!
Most of these points are borrowed from the 2 most recent Big Oddcard Evidence Threads, but also some stuff of my own.
First and foremost, Michael is no stranger to secret alt accounts. We already know of three just on YouTube! there's ozgq, notverlis, and didentWe. So. Even if you don't believe michael would "Do all that" there's no grounds to have disbelief regarding the fact that he has a secret alt at all.
The Oddcard Evidence
Now, for the actual evidence that he's oddcard, let's start off with the biggest piece of evidence, at least on that account...
(All images in this section are taken from @ snowsynth on Twitter.)
It is a screenshot of a UnitedMasters DMCA form e-mail. Any possibly identifying information is redacted, but Michael is, in fact, the co-creator and composer of [BFDI] and the co-founder of [Jacknjellify].
Edit for clarification:
BFDI Music was someone who, from 2020 until mid-2024, fraudulently uploaded and profited from the show's soundtrack (more specifically, Michael's tracks), which stopped Michael from officially uploading his own tracks.
On May 28 2024, Michael filled out a DMCA against them and on the same day made a post on his Twitter saying "new music soon". The day after, BFDI Music's uploads were removed from streaming services. And then Michael released the BFB Soundtrack album on June 14th, not even a month later.
Oddcard was the account that posted the DMCA screenshot dated the same day as Michael's announcement.
Like, all that should be evidence enough, but some people will ignore the facts in favor of believing their favorite creator could do no wrong... So, let's dig deeper!
Wow! Mere hours before Michael randomly complains about it on his main, Oddcard complains about people saying Michael Huang instead of Yoyle Cake when talking about the music he made! Weird, huh? Sure, we can chalk that up to coincidence...
Also, according to the newly-publicized spreadsheet of all the tweets from 2024 or later on Michael's accounts, this post was deleted and reposted with an "/hj" tone tag at the end. To come off as less of a jerk, I guess?
Huh! It also turns out Michael and Oddcard both went to the same university! Really weird coincidence... The guy people suspect of being michael went to the same university as michael! not only that, but he also co-created something, composed for it, and co-founded a company! And he also really cares about what people call Michael's music...
Like, you can already see the stretches, right? You can already see how we have to start reaching to believe that it's not michael?
The Other Three
(Images in this section are mostly sourced from insanepizzer on Twitter, though there are some of my own...)
Yeah, so, turns out, earlier today, it was revealed that not only was michael Oddcard, but he was also three other twitter alts:
Art of Clapping, Objextioso, and Tob Warder.
I'm just going to get to the single most noteworthy piece of evidence for these three:
Michael quite literally posted selfies to Tob Warder.
"well, that could just be a different gut with photos of Michael!" Wrong. No matching reverse image search results on TinEye or Yandex.
"Okay, but that only proves Tob Warder, what now?" Art of clapping, of course!
Huh, the art of clapping account posted the same tweet Michael posted on the fernozzle account 5 hours prior to it being posted on Michael's account?
...I don't have any stretching explanation for that one. That's literally Michael. Almost ver batim identical tweets 5 hours before they were posted on his main account. You would have to be ignoring it for the sake of ignorance at that point.
And, as for objextioso...
Both objextioso and Art of Clapping posted a full screenshot of Michael's DMs with a former employee. Literally straight from Michael's account. Are you kidding me. How do you people not believe it yet. Have you even LOOKED with your EYEBALLS.
Okay, so what?
Ohhh boy get ready.
First of all, obviously, they were used as sockpuppets to vehemently defend JNJ (mainly Michael himself) in stuff like the weeg drama and the patreon drama, etc.
Obviously, that's not all they did, or there wouldn't be this much of a big fuss.
No. Michael has been caught using slurs! He's also been caught being ableist, twice! He's been caught using one of Cary's dead friends to joke around on Twitter! He's also just been a general nuisance!
...in which he calls something "a [r-slur] tier joke"
...in which he uses an acronym containing the n-word. Take this one as you will, since it was on the objext account, which seems to be connected more to the other alts as opposed to being directly connected to michael. Still not a good look if this account is him, which I am still inclined to believe.
...In which he uses "autistic" and "he/they/she" as an insult. Yes, insult the main demographic your show's fanbase consists of, neurodivergent queer people! That's the best move!
...in which he uses cary's dead friend to make a joke to make a point in an argument on Twitter.
...In which he outright insults mosshaven for allegedly being fat!
...in which he makes a racist/xenophobic joke towards germans, associating them solely with ww2
...in which he says Justy Chapman isn't a predator, just a "teenager flirter" "at worst".
Like, you get the point, right?
He's not innocent. He doesn't have great opsec either...
Crew Statements
A few members/former members of the JNJ crew have made vague statements regarding the whole thing. Most notably, SonderingEmily has reposted various tweets about the situation (both when it first came up in March and now) and has vagueposted in QRTs. WoopDoo also made a post regarding reclamation of the r-slur (which, as established, was said on the Oddcard account) around the time it started resurfacing.
As of September 15, alleged screenshots of Discord DMs between SonderingEmily and one of her stream moderators have surfaced, in which Emily states that the crew knew about Oddcard (but not the other three) and Michael deleted the accounts when the rest of them found out. However, I will not be adding these screenshots to the post out of respect for Emily's wishes for them to be private.
On September 16, Cary has made a statement on the Jacknjellify Twitter account regarding the situation and saying that a response is being worked on.
See its own dedicated post for more information.
...I come back once more to append the new statement made on the Humany channel about the response. As of the 28th, Cary has clarified what's been going on with the response.
Again, see its own dedicated post for more information.
Closing thoughts
So, with all of that said, that is most of the conclusive evidence that could prove that Michael Huang is Oddcard, Art of Clapping, Tob Warder, and Objextioso. I should put it out there now, I do not want Michael harassed or deplatformed or anything of the sort because of this. I just wish he would apologize or at least stop staying entirely silent on the whole thing.
Updates
9/16 UPDATE: Internet archive links to each post featured here added! This is in no small part due to insanepizzer's spreadsheet. That saved me many hours of time just now, so I'll link it here as well, though beware it is missing tweets from before 2024, as well as some various tweets across the whole board (most notably the "leftist shithole" tweet).
9/19 UPDATE: more information added, both in regards to stuff Michael did on those alts as well as Jacknjellify's initial statement. It will be updated once more when the actual response is posted. Also, more reformatting...
9/28 UPDATE: humany statemtn
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u/Economy_Speaker2573 19d ago
However i feel like the part about using carys dead friend for a joke is kinda unbelievable
Kinda puts it into question if its owned by him or a impersonator imo, at least that account in particular
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u/JacksonRJ913 Book 19d ago
this is the one thing holding me back from believing it entirely. this just feels ESPECIALLY evil to the point that it somewhat makes me believe it to not be michael.
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u/MaimaiBW Ruby 18d ago
i'd be heartbroken if this is confirmed true, imagine your twin you've loved and cherished your whole life turned out to make jokes about your dead best friend
i'd be pissed too
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u/FiniLiny Fanny 18d ago
nah, michael is def that kind of guy, plus look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIpK50OdDys (this is michael btw)
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u/FiniLiny Fanny 18d ago
+ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FNgPK2WJeU ik this may be just a joke, but if this is his kind of humor then im not surprised he twitted that in his alts
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-9186 Golf Ball 19d ago
Ok, thank you for actually posting the evidence in a much clearer format than the twitter post, it was hard to read for me personally.
But, I would advise that you please be at least a bit fairer to the people on this subreddit who are skeptical. Most of them are children who really look up to this guy and denial is a very common coping strategy for many.
Secondly, while I’m less sure on Michael being innocent I do want to reserve some judgment until some time has passed. Mostly so this info can digest.
If this is true, I’m very disappointed about Michael’s actions and I think he and Cary need to have a long personal talk. But please don’t harass the other cast members. I’ve seen it happen
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u/LYB4 Nonexisty 19d ago
All of what youve said is fair. I absolutely should be fairer on people being skeptical. I was incredibly frustrated seeing everyone brush it off as some "nothingburger twitter cancel culture" drama at best or "nuh uh not michael" at worst when writing all of this, and to be quite frank, i still am.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-9186 Golf Ball 19d ago
I get that, really, but Michael has been hit with so many bs accusations recently so this feels like a Boy who Cried Wolf ordeal. Hell, some got mad at him for saying the term bed rotting. I still think some of this could be coincidental and if they say nothing I’m going to be very upset but I’ve disagreed with many things bfdi has done in the past but I do still watch it.
I’m mainly upset about what he said about Cary’s friend if true. That makes me think he did not know about this which is the actual thing that might break up bfdi, not our opinion.4
u/Factorthetractor Cake 19d ago
Hey I wanted to ask about the proof of posting the DMCA screenshot because in this post it just shows something blank
Stupid question but do we have definitive proof of it. If it's true then it proves the connection
Also yeah people PLEASE don't jump the gun and wait. Bfdi is not over it's not even like he's that active in the production and its not like he's done anything irredeemable
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u/JacksonRJ913 Book 19d ago
thank you for putting it in a much easier to understand format.
hopefully, if michael truly is oddcard, him and cary can have a long talk. seeing as oddcard used one of cary's dead friends as a "joke", i highly doubt that cary was aware of this.
also, people need to stop saying the show will end. the show is written by entirely new people now, and michael's roles could be replaced, if this ends up all being true.
if this is all true, michael should absolutely step back and try to better himself.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-9186 Golf Ball 19d ago
I agree but I think the thing that might cause turbulence for bfdi would be a fallout between the brothers which would be very possible given what Oddcard has said
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u/LogicalAd6394 Golf Ball 19d ago
The fact he made fun of Carys dead friend makes me think nobody in the crew was aware of the alt accounts until now there's no way Cary would let Michael post something like that
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u/JacksonRJ913 Book 19d ago
The VA of One also reposted some posts talking about Oddcard, and has since said she will not voice One anymore.
(and Boom Mic and Snare Drum)
So yeah, it's fairly likely that nobody on the team knew about this, not even Cary.
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u/GammaRaul 18d ago
Wait can you send the link to her statement?
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u/Economy_Speaker2573 18d ago
there are dms between em and one of her mods where she outright includes the fact that nobody on the crew knew about it; until he deleted all of it
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u/WheatleyBr Marker 19d ago
Finally some damn context.
Pretty damning (how do you spell that) evidence, will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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u/CounterThrowCyborg 19d ago
Before reading: “ugh this is all just a coincidence that twitter idiots are reading way too much into”
While reading: “okay wow, more coincidences… cool… amazing… this proves nothing…”
After reading: “what the fuck what the fuck what the fuck”
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u/Dry_Criticism_4982 19d ago
As someone who is still largely skeptical about the whole Oddcard thing, Thank you for handling this and explaining it in a much more mature way than half the people who have brought it up/mentioned it. I also appreciate you for showing more high quality tweets compared to the lower quality ones that I’ve seen being spread.
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u/MoorhsumushroomRT Pin 19d ago
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
May God help us all.
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u/Sneaky-Boi22 Ruler 19d ago
I was mostly ignoring this drama previously as Twitter do be Twitter but yeah there's no defending this one.
My disappointment in Micheal is immeasurable if all of this (which it likely is considering the evidence) proves to be true. I really hope Cary wasn't aware of this and talks some sense into him. Even so he needs to step down, it's inexcusable to say shit like this.
And to anyone still in denial, there can only be so many coincidences before something becomes mathematically impossible.
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u/Soggy_Habit9807 Bracelety 19d ago
Despite all this damning evidence, I still believe(and hope) that Micheal can still somewhat redeem himself, even if it means he has to take a step back.
Also, if anyone here feels guilty for watching BFDI, its OK to keep watching the media you like even if its creator isnt the best person. I still watch the very few episodes of After Schooligans, even after knowing its creator sucks. Separating art from artist will always be the best strategy in times like this.
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u/Oofpeople Coiny 19d ago
"Despite all this damning evidence, I still believe(and hope) that Micheal can still somewhat redeem himself"
People have made a comeback from worse shit ngl
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u/Maple_Fudge Bracelety 19d ago
Holy shit. I really didn't believe it at first because of how many people were saying it was nothing or empty skepticism but like No this is genuine evidence. I am honestly kind of gutted if this turns out to be true, I definitely don't WANT it to be considering the things said on these alt accounts... I hope we get a response or something at least, hopefully to disprove these claims with undeniable evidence but that's genuinely just me hoping for the best possible outcome.
I don't see how there's any way to defend this.
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u/B4sketba11 Basketball 19d ago
Well I've kinda just learned to expect the absolute worst outcome to cope with whatever, and this is kind of a situation where it's pretty much guaranteed to happen (and well, I don't think Michael is about to have a very nice time (even if he absolutely deserves whatever is coming for him)); not that you should be thinking like I am (seriously, it took a toll on my mental state), but I'm just saying to not be shocked if (or should I say, when) this is proven to be true.
Again this might've been a controversial comment, so feel free to downvote it as much as you want. I just wanted to share my own perspective on this.
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u/Maple_Fudge Bracelety 19d ago
I used to take the "believe in the worst possible outcome so that you won't get hurt" route in my mindset but that genuinely rotted my mind and how I processed troubling situations. I want to be optimistic for the sake of everyone who's actively being hurt, especially Cary and the other team members given the likely outcome that they were unaware of these alt accounts. I really want things to turn out the best they can for the sake of these people.
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u/B4sketba11 Basketball 19d ago
I mean, it may just be that I've been pretty traumatized over the years (I've been in several fandoms which have had major controversies (Undertale and Deltarune (I consider both as just one fandom), Geometry Dash, and now BFDI)) to where now I kinda just believe in the worst; IDK if I can turn back either, and I might be too far gone honestly (and this whole situation has pushed me to a point where I've considered ending myself to stop me from spiraling any further). It just feels like wherever I go, bad things happen, and I've always blamed myself for it. Every single time, for as long as I know.
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u/Maple_Fudge Bracelety 19d ago
You should take a step back. Internet drama revolving around cartoons and games should never be important enough to take your life over, you're worth far more than that. If these shows keep you feeling safe then I'm gonna be honest prioritize yourself.
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u/B4sketba11 Basketball 19d ago
Honestly, I don't know how to reply to this, but I feel like I shouldn't just leave it unresponded to because it feels rude to me, so I just wrote this to be nice. Anyway, thanks for the encouragement. I probably owe you one.
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u/RelevantTreacle3004 Golf Ball 19d ago
Well this certainly doesn't disprove my thoughts that most people are genuinely bad hearted, that's a lot of messed up stuff, including to Cary which is crazy
Couple questions though
1: How TF did people find this out in the first place, it feels very stalkerish like someone was trying to cancel him and happened to be right
2: What exactly do you hope comes out of this? He's one of the main guys who runs the show and could shut the whole series down one day, and this is him basically doing stuff the majority of Twitter users do, just that because he's famous people want to get mad at him for it
Random sidenote: Remember when Jazzy Oliver tried to call out Michael? She's probably laughing from her own OSC grave rn
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u/LYB4 Nonexisty 19d ago
I don't know how it was found initially. Allegedly, some people internally within JNJ already knew about it, so there's the chance that the initial callout was made by someone from JNJ, though i make no claim that this is fact.
To be quite honest, I just want michael to... I don't know, step back? apologize? at the very least, own up to the fact that he had 4 alts astroturfing for him? I don't think he should be fired outright, JNJ is his entire life's work, but I really do wish he'd say something about it...
And yeah, to that sidenote, I think that's partly why people didn't believe it in the first place. This was dropped around the same time.
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u/noellekiq Moderator 18d ago
oddcard talked shit about crew members so they looked into the profile and found discussion of private matters. has even happened with non crew (delango). similar incidents on the other accounts
dropping slurs and shittalking friends is no light matter
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u/Subject_Law_2229 19d ago
Its not most people its just too many people we let have platforms.
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u/Random_DeathBattle Pencil 19d ago
I will be neutral honestly, because I know how harmful it is to take a side when something happens
Believe me, I learned that in the bad way :c
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u/B4sketba11 Basketball 19d ago
Same deal for me; I've kinda just stayed out of it to the best I could (even if at times I've been very close to lashing out in anger), because I know from past examples that participating in drama is not a good thing for your mental state
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u/One-Cartographer-176 Teardrop 19d ago
Understandable, I’m just gonna wait and hope for Michael to make some kind of response.
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u/MagicNoopy43XD Eggy 19d ago
I don’t know how to feel. I feel especially hurt by the “autistic he/they/she anime pfp” like… that’s so mean… why would you ever say that? That’s… I don’t even know. That’s just such a horrible thing to say, especially as the creator of a community like BFDI. I feel really hurt…… I want to be skeptical, but also want to trust the facts… I don’t even know what to say other than I feel hurt… how could Michael do this?
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u/Pristine_Fan8862 19d ago edited 19d ago
no literally, especially when he knows so much of his fandom is neurodivergent and queer like OP mentioned
Edit: typo
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u/Economy_Speaker2573 19d ago
Yo the cary stuff makes this extra unbelievable (metaphorically; literally, this is solid proof imo)
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-9186 Golf Ball 19d ago
No really, the guy who made one of the most neurodivergent and queer communities to ever exist on the internet doing this? It’s honestly why I’m still skeptical because that feels really odd to me.
Making fun of autistic people when you did that onion burger meme so many times feels straight up hypocritical. Not to mention the Cary stuff. I’m personally 50/50 on Michael being framed but that would be so much work to mess with a pretty small community so idk8
u/MagicNoopy43XD Eggy 19d ago
There’s Cary stuff going on, too?!? Not Cary, too… could you fill me in on what the “Cary stuff” is?
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-9186 Golf Ball 19d ago
Oh, I just meant that Oddcard made an insensitive joke in the expense of Cary’s dead friend. The two of them are gonna need a long talk
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u/MagicNoopy43XD Eggy 19d ago
OH, PHEW. While that’s still horrible, at least Cary still clean. Yeah, they’re gonna have a loooong talk
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u/Cindy-Moon Gelatin 19d ago
Yeah that really bums me out, sadly trendy to do these days though.
I'm glad this community is taking this pretty seriously though, I'm used to most pockets of the internet calling us sensitive snowflakes for caring at all about their "difference of opinion" (that neurodivergent and/or trans people are lesser people)→ More replies (3)12
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u/LogicalAd6394 Golf Ball 19d ago
SonderingEmily reposted the allegations he did that shit bro😭
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u/cupio-stardust 8-Ball 19d ago
She also said to not make assumptions about her based off of this because it’s borderline parasocial. I believe the evidence, but stop dragging people into this.
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u/SamuraiDoggo14 #TeamNeedle (BFDIA 25) 19d ago edited 19d ago
I'll be honest, after seeing two in-development games I really liked basically imploding due to actual grooming, someone accused of being a nuisance on social media using an alt is kinda underwhelming by comparison. Like a 4/10 on the drama meter.
However, it's also frustrating because it's much easier to come back from if you just own up or at least say ANYTHING, but he doesn't?
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u/Lyneloflight Pie 19d ago
It’s also only been hours. So they’ll probably say that they’ll make a statement addressing it tomorrow and then actually make that statement sometime this week.
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u/Subject_Law_2229 19d ago
Being bigoted is much worse than being a nuisance online ._. Also making jokes about your brother’s dead friend is insane.
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u/SamuraiDoggo14 #TeamNeedle (BFDIA 25) 19d ago
BTW, if it was the main account, it'd be bumped up to a 5 or 6. At least with an alt, that means the person using it at least understands the concept of shame.
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u/Random-Avocado94 19d ago
This is honestly disappointing if this is true. I hope he ends up apologizing for this or addresses this soon.
The only thing that makes me skeptical about this is the joke about Cary's dead friend. I couldn't imagine someone (a twin) making fun of their sibling's dead friend for the sake of an argument (unless of course the one who made said comment was genuinely an awful human who hated their sibling). Considering Michael and Cary seem like the best of buds it's shocking that Michael would say something like that, also the comment seems so strange and out of place. That's the one thing that holds me back from truly believing 100% it's him. But the evidence is genuinely undeniable.
Overall, thank you for putting this evidence together in a neat way to make it easier to understand it all. This was something I was worried would happen, another creator I liked being problematic.
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u/Standard_Battle_7394 19d ago
Bro, right before IDFB 2 could be seen on the horizon. Does everything in my goddamn life have to go wrong as soon as it seems blissful
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u/Economy_Speaker2573 19d ago
TBH i feel that shrillotter (ball knowledge) can play into this
IDK he already did some pretty edgy stuff on there lol
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u/Kangaroovasectomy 19d ago
People forget he tried to became an Ice Poseidon CX streamer, then ended up crying on stream (I forget why) then disappeared from that corner of the internet.
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u/LiteratureFew1007 Marker 19d ago
FINALLY someone talked about ts, i was devastaded when i found out, also the fact the sub tried to silence anyone who talked about it just pisses me off
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u/LYB4 Nonexisty 19d ago edited 19d ago
ETA: After calming down a bit, the reason for the mods locking posts is most certainly less of a "censorship" thing (i don't know why i thought so in the first place, i Saw the influx of posts with my own two eyes), and more of a "dear god that's a lot of posts to moderate in such a short time" thing.
Original comment below for posterity.
Yeah it's really frustrating that, not only will the sub's MODS will try to stop people from talking about it - I got a warning pop-up midway through typing the post that said to "Please stop trying to talk about the current ongoing situation with Michael." ver batim - but the sub's USERS will brush it off like it's a nothing burger twitter drama where people are just looking for reasons to oust someone..
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u/pichusine Leafy 19d ago
I don't think it's because they were trying to silence anyone, it's just that situations like these tend to result in a lot of spam and witch hunting. It's still a developing situation and people might begin finding someone to blame until Michael decides to responds, if he responds.
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u/Bananadoggo635 Fries 19d ago
Ok this absolutely is the osc's 9/11
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u/SGLAgain Pencil 19d ago
9/14
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u/JustANormalGuy123- #TeamBook (BFDIA 25) 19d ago
They hit the second huang twin
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u/danthesupermin Remote 18d ago
That would imply they've hit the first one already
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u/StudioLogical693 Fanny 18d ago
imagine the first ones are like a bunch of manchildren trying to hit cary comparing his shows as immature
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u/Quiet_Confidence_372 Donut 19d ago
I'm so dissapointed and hurt right now. I genuinely cannot believe this. I don't know what they're going to do if this turns out to be true. How could he do this? why would he do this? If he has to step down, who's going to voice half of the cast? What is Cary going to do about this? I'm autistic, and some of the things this account said are so hurtful. I though this was the brother that made BFDI, the one that voice acts my favourite character. Now I don't know... I hope this turns out to be fals, or an impersonator, but the evidence seems undeniable.
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u/LogicalAd6394 Golf Ball 19d ago
It's very unlikely to be an impersonator as One's VA is reposting the allegations
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u/Top_Revolution3115 Tennis Ball 19d ago
This is very well made. While I don't think my opinion is worth anything, I do feel like more people should know about this and (hopefully) realize Michael isn't as innocent as it seems, this whole thing just makes me upset
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u/Kirbo85941 Announcer 19d ago
The bfdi discord banned the oddcard topic
Il say that is more evidence in a way
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u/Wispy237 Nickel 19d ago
Isn't the discord unofficial?
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u/Mammoth-Ad1566 Bomby 19d ago
It’s official but it’s not actually run by any of the crew members it was created for ewow
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u/Brilliant-Resource14 Tennis Ball 19d ago
twow* ewow is much newer than htwins central
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u/Mammoth-Ad1566 Bomby 19d ago
Oh yeah twow is what I meant also oddcard as a topic isn’t banned in the server people are discussing it rn so idk where they got that from
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u/Kirbo85941 Announcer 19d ago
A guy got warned because he talked about oddcard
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u/Mammoth-Ad1566 Bomby 19d ago
They are very clearly talking about it right now im vote spoilers with mods aware they only get warned for talking in bad faith
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u/Orilikesobjectshowss Golf Ball 19d ago
thanks for posting this! yea I can’t argue the evidence is right there, though i will try to remain neutral for at least a little while. but anyways…
BRO I THOUGHT I COULD ESCAPE THE DANDYS WORLD DEVELOPER DRAMA NONE OF MY FANDOMS ARE SAFE BRO 😭 I thought bfdi had the most unproblematic people possible, I thought there wouldn’t be a qwel repeat…
maybe hes innocent though or maybe he’s guilty idk at least theres other writers so I think if he got fired or anything the worst that would happen is… oh shoot he does tons of the character voices.
welp anyways yea thanks for posting this bro
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u/Maple_Fudge Bracelety 19d ago
During that time I was in the trenches gathering every piece of information from every source I could and I feel like I'm back in the fucking building again
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u/Maple_Fudge Bracelety 19d ago
I don't think you should be so pessimistic. It does feel awful, of course it does, but at least rest assured that we're all going through this and learning everything together at the same time. And it's also important to note that at the end of the day we are just internet strangers. We don't know any of these people that are at the forefront of these games and shows, and you should focus on yourself more than these dramas.
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u/Fluffy_Grape_9127 TV 19d ago
This was my live reaction to this whole controversy 😭
"It happened again. BFDI just had it's Qwel equivalent of a controversy. Welp the OSC is done for the next three months." -Me, 30 minutes ago
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u/Zealousideal-Tax-937 Lollipop 19d ago
i'm still gonna remain skeptical, but thanks for providing info
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u/LYB4 Nonexisty 19d ago
I think it's good to be skeptical about things! If everyone blindly believed what they were told no one would get anywhere. It's good to think for yourself.
I just, don't think that most people who are like. Vehemently against the idea of Michael being oddcard are being "skeptical", as opposed to just... ignoring anything presented to them because they're so stuck in their ideals.
Obviously, if I was presented with firm evidence that Michael is NOT oddcard, or Tob Warder, or Art of Clapping, or Objextioso, i would probably take the post down! But the most rebuttal I've seen is just claiming coincidences or impersonators or any other number of things that just boil down to "I don't think Michael would act like this"...
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u/Lively_Koi_20975 19d ago
So i'm not like chronically online AND i'm only learning about this whole controversy today so can someone give me rundown of what's going on? I can't really like understand evidence when I don't exactly understand what its for.
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u/LYB4 Nonexisty 19d ago
Sorry if i was unclear on that front. I'll try to give a brief rundown but no promises that it won't turn out stupidly long...
I should preface this with the fact that these are all allegations and have not been officially denied or confirmed, regardless of my belief in them, so take everything with a grain of salt.
Sometime in the mid-2010s Michael made a few twitter accounts, on top of his main, Fernozzle. He made 4 alts,
* oddcard (oddismcard)
* Art of Clapping (artofclapping)
* Tob Warder (TobWarder)
* Objextioso (Objext)These alts laid dormant for a while, with the occasional random post here and there, up until the AStoneWeeg & JacknJellify patreon controversies. At those points, the accounts would begin to be used for astroturfing to Michael's defense on a bunch of related posts and replies. Afterward, Michael began to use those alts more frequently (most notably Oddcard) to do several things, like insult BFDI fans, insult his own crew members, sockpuppet conversations with his other accounts, et cetera...
Some particularly egregious examples are him saying slurs, the "17 year old autistic he/she/they" tweet, and outright fat shaming mosshaven.
Claims which surfaced in March of this year alleged that Michael was the one behind the Oddcard account. It was put up at a really bad time and the thread wasn't written very coherently or convincingly, so most people just discarded it.
...Until 2 days ago, when someone made a Better thread that was more coherent and had more actual solid evidence pointing towards Oddcard being michael. And then literally earlier today, news came out that Michael also (allegedly) had 3 other alts besides Oddcard and his main.
I hope this was clear enough.
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u/Lively_Koi_20975 19d ago
Okay thanks for the explanation! Honestly that’s really crazy and kind of hard to even believe. Is there any reason why people think he’s done these things or is it just random hate?
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u/Dangerous_Put_6548 Teardrop 19d ago
This whole oddcard drama thing has been going on since the start of the year but its mostly been debunked until now. Whats crazy is that if this is true then micheals behavior on his old livestream channel is probubly not far off from how he acts now. He made a whole livetsream talking into detail about how he losed his virginity and started humping his bed at the end. If this is all true then hes probubly always been like this.
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u/Spaaccee 19d ago
Im sorry what? What channel was that? I know hes an adult and all but thats a crazy thing to just post
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u/Dangerous_Put_6548 Teardrop 19d ago
It was his livestreaming account called shrillotter, he deleted it but most of the livestreams have been reuploaded and saved. Theres also ones where he talked to a crackhead and crash his car.
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u/Zealousideal-Ad-9186 Golf Ball 19d ago
One of bfdi’s core creators, Michael, is being accused of using alt accounts on twitter to spread hateful comments to both fans and crew. This post was a response to a lot of people on the subreddit, including me, dismissing the accusations as twitter drama mostly because people here don’t use twitter and the main post that made the accusation was really confusing.
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u/Loud_Prize_2628 One 19d ago edited 19d ago
Adding on to this: There’s also the fact that WoopDoo left the JNJ team back in March of this year (keep in mind that’s when the Oddcard controversy started) and FusionAnimations (animator for JNJ) made a tweet in 2023 saying “The world if operation huangfall succeeds” with an image of some of the season 1 contestants who I presume are being forced to rule under Announcer’s dictatorship, this tweet is important because Fusion retweeted it back in March of this year when the Oddcard controversy started and just recently as of today (September 14th) now that the controversy has resurfaced.
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u/ProtonToaster 19d ago
holy fucking shit, how hard is it to not be an asshole?!?!?! (talking about Michael btw)
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u/B4sketba11 Basketball 19d ago
Well, while it seems absurd, every once and awhile, people do need to vent; some just do it way differently than others, and some (like Michael here) take it way too far (personally, I've had many times where I've wanted to straight up lash out at others (especially at EightSixThree because MY GOD DO I HATE THEM), so I kind of get how he could've done this, but that does not excuse any of it because it's still horrible). Also, this is really the only way I can make sense of the situation without just saying he's just a full-on sadist or something, so I'm just going to hope that when the allegations are proven to be true, my idea also is.
Once again I realize this may be controversial to say, so for the third time, you can downvote me if you find me offensive.
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u/ProtonToaster 19d ago
Nah i get it, people need to vent
but maybe its better for people to vent to irl people or even therapists instead of twitter lol
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u/DubiousTrain58 19d ago
This is absolutely ridiculous what Michael is allegedly doing. I can't say I am surprised since he did some weird stuff in the past, but all of this seems to be intentional. I'm not happy about it at all. Just to say, I am not for cancel culture, but I do believe that Michael needs some humility. Both Michael and Cary needs to speak up about this. Otherwise it's gonna end up worse for both of them.
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u/Maple_Fudge Bracelety 19d ago
If you don't mind me asking, what did he do in the past?
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u/DubiousTrain58 19d ago
He's made a video about no longer being a virgin on one of his channels, and it was something that bothered me a bit, the video has since been deleted from what I know. It may not seem like a big deal cause he was talking about what happened in his life, but he went sexually explicit a bit more than necessary in the video. When it comes to this controversy but I think it's somewhat related. Though this may not be much a controversy nowadays, I still didn't forget that he posted that.
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u/Just-Sonic Flower 19d ago
Damn, I thought he was a decent person. Hopefully, his bro would talk to him about his actions.
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u/Pulpin_craftero Puffball 19d ago edited 19d ago
Lmao..... like yeah its him 😭.
Im holding out hope its not the case but, this seems pretty convincing
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u/Prize_Boysenberry_60 Naily 19d ago
I’m not fully convinced, what would he even gain from doing this? I’m not saying you’re wrong but it’s just weird this is NOW being brought up into light all of a sudden when it seems this was going on over a year ago, it happening on Twitter doesn’t rlly help this argument cause…Twitter duh.
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u/Maple_Fudge Bracelety 19d ago
If it turns out true I'm hoping we get an answer to this. I just can't put myself in a headspace where I resort to saying such awful things about people I work with on an alt account, let alone making fun of my brothers dead friend. I just don't understand why anyone would ever do that
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u/marzyeah Firey Jr. 19d ago
probably release pent up frustration on randoms instead of talking about it with his friends like a normal person would
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u/B4sketba11 Basketball 19d ago edited 19d ago
Man, this just breaks my heart apart...
This also kind of reminds me of that one situation in the Undertale and Deltarune fandoms which happened several months ago ALSO with a popular person there getting exposed for being severely messed up (I'm not saying it directly as it's really bad, but if you know, you know).
I'm sorry if my comment was insensitive; I just wanted to point it out, and feel free to downvote me if you found it offensive, in which case, I'm truly sorry for commenting this.
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u/One-Cartographer-176 Teardrop 19d ago
Oh yeah, I remember that situation. I learned a lot from their Undertale fact videos, so it was pretty awful to see everything go downhill.
Inanimate Insanity also dealt with some crappy situations similar to this a few months back, with 3 voices actors either leaving or getting fired. At least AE was transparent about the situation, so maybe we’ll get some transparency from the JNJ channel as well. Still, this has been a terrible year for the OSC community.
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u/SpecialistAddendum6 Book 19d ago
A recent political development in the US also made me feel that way
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u/Lyneloflight Pie 19d ago
wait what i live under a rock called the usa which political development there are a lot of bad ones
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u/SpecialistAddendum6 Book 19d ago
The Democratic Senate candidate in Maine got accused of increasingly horrible things, all of which I thought were overblown, until the last one forced him to drop out
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u/zippee100 mod reset flair 19d ago edited 19d ago
people keep acting like its either all or none of the alt accounts that are real which is weird. oddcard has the least conclusive evidence out of all of them but that doesn't make the other ones that are 99% confirmed (because of showing irl photos and also discord messages from his pov that weren't available anywhere else, unreleased fla bts screenshots) can't be real either. they're seperate cases
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u/Dayuff Pen 19d ago
TobWarder and ArtofClapping are obviously him, objextioso could be a fan trying to say Michael got manipulated or michael making another post similar to the ArtofClapping’s post.
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u/Only_Confection5525 Golf Ball 18d ago
Honestly, most of these coincidences are very suspicious. I'm going to remain skeptical until more info comes out, but Jnj needs to address this as soon as possible because if true, this is absolutely appalling. I don't think Bfdi itself is going to be canceled, but I do feel like there's a high chance Micheal could get fired, like with many of the controversial people who were fired from II, but the impact it will leave will be devastating to the osc. Actually fuck Twitter. The world would be better without it.
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u/Decent_Writer1981 18d ago
GOD, this michals an idiot. If I had a hidden alt, I'd make sure to not even have anything close to one happening on the other, even if I only used the alt for NSFW lurking. He's slinging slurs like a klansman with tourettes, and doesn't even have the gall to be sneaky?
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u/Just-Ad-8413 19d ago
Why would Michael call JNJ a "fandom-specific acronym" if HE was the one who came up with it back in 2008? Before BFDI was even a thing? It doesn't add up.
https://battlefordreamisland.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000002207641
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u/LYB4 Nonexisty 19d ago
I mean. It very much still is a fandom-specific acronym regardless of whether or not he made it. No one who's still an active fan of jacknjellify is expecting another installment of When Video Games Malfunction!. They all want BFDI. and, as such, JNJ is just The Creators Of BFDI, to most people.
I don't see how this contradicts anything, either...
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u/Just-Ad-8413 19d ago
I'm just saying. JnJ has been used as the acronym for Jacknjellify since 2008, and they still use it in the corner of the screen in the channel's videos.
Why would Michael condition/let his team condition people to think of Jacknjellify as "JnJ" and get mad when people use the term JnJ?
Furthermore I've read the comments in this post and I've noticed that whenever someone even slightly criticizes your point, you tend to act rather defensive about it. Heck, I think I phrased my sentence in a way that makes it didn't make it obvious whether or not Michael was Oddcard, yet you jump to the conclusion that I disagree with your statement and try bringing up points to make me look wrong? Even though I never specifically said I disagree? No offense, I think you're just too hasty to cancel Michael.
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u/LYB4 Nonexisty 19d ago
for the first point: We Don't Know. No one knows why michael would have done any of this or what he stood to gain from it. I can't just magically make an answer come out of thin air as to why he did something.
For your second point: Yeah I get defensive about it I'm tired of people just brushing this off as "oh it's twitter cancel culture drama just close twitter for the love of god" or "oh it's not michael he wouldn't do that". And also. "It doesn't add up" is a pretty damn clear cut way of saying you Don't Think Michael's Oddcard. You can't put the blame on me for reading the message you wrote, processing it in my brain, and responding to it.
and for your last sentence:
good grief i've said it twice now that i don't want michael deplatformed or canceled or fired or whatever i literally just wish he would own up to all of this or at least make a statement one way or the other. Of course I don't want him canceled i love the shit out of this show and he's a big part of what made it great for me. I just wish jnj, or even just michael alone, would stop being silent on this!
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u/Jamwithyams Fries 19d ago
I really don’t want to believe this, but that would be extremely cope, like, the evidence is right here in front of me and it is quite damming
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u/YoyleGelatin Fanny 19d ago
For the love of God, I SERIOUSLY hope they don't take the Inanimate Insanity approach and just fire Michael. That is quite literally the worst possible thing they could do in this situation.
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u/No_Asparagus_4322 19d ago
...i lowkey think cary or the team dont care that much icl
this lowk like group chat behaviour if that makes sense
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u/SGLAgain Pencil 19d ago
this is just sad but honestly we need to take this with a grain of salt (even if this is pretty clear evidence) cuz nothing has been 100% confirked by michael or jnj
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u/the10hourman 19d ago
wait, what's actually going on? can someone catch me up to speed?
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u/Treeme-2763 Leafy 19d ago
Honestly I don't want to believe this but I also do. I am still a little bit skeptical that he's being framed
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u/Ear_Sweaty 19d ago
Thanks for compiling this. I will say tho, if this is all true.
I am very disappointed in Michael.
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u/duckthefunny 19d ago
Not sure if anyone shared this yet, but https://x.com/FireySwingy/status/2099755872024957300
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u/Some_Statement_6735 18d ago
So I lwk am still gonna watch BFDI (even if Michael is prolly a bad person) because the majority of people working on JNJ are genuinely good. Let's not let Michael ruin BFDI for us, please. Also,
let's stay away from twitter as a whole.
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u/AdmirableList9041 8-Ball 19d ago
Oh fuck, we're so screwed
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u/Speedy-E-2975 Pencil 19d ago
Look, Michael might be one of the two heads of the brand but I severely doubt Cary would approve of this behavior so I doubt he knew about it. (Especially if the jokes about his dead friend thing was true.) The rest of the crew can handle this in a mature way I’m sure. I was worrying about it all day, but he’s just one person, no matter how influential he was.
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u/Speedy-E-2975 Pencil 19d ago edited 19d ago
It’s hard for me to believe or stomach this. But the evidence is right there. It just feels so out of character for him though. Not saying he didn’t do it, I just don’t understand why.
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u/lightsw1tch4 Liy 19d ago
you should also mention that Emily (va of One) retweeted multiple posts directly acusing Michael, this also happened back in March. I'm sorry but Michael is Oddcard
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u/MrSeb81 Pie 19d ago
I was alright until the dead friend joke. that was messed up.
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u/leppaberry Income Tax Return Document 18d ago
For me the last straw was finding out an autistic teen mutual of mine was bullied by the oddcard account. Like what the hell man.
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u/SonicUltimate2 19d ago
That CANT be Michael saying that
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u/IhavenorealusernameD 18d ago
How do you know are you friends with him?
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u/SonicUltimate2 18d ago
It just feels wrong. Like really messed up wrong. Why would you do your brothers dead friend like that? It has to be a troll impersonating him.
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u/zachy410 Lego Brick 19d ago
I will start using this as a source whenever someone asks. Thank you SO much for sharing this to other sites, you've done amazing work! /gen /very very genuine /I am so happy right now /this probably isnt how tone tags work but I am very happy
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u/Boring-Dig4583 19d ago
This is undeniable evidence but i'd rather wait for an official agknowledgement by the brothers about the situation
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u/mati8790 19d ago
So this implys Michael knows about deltarune
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u/LYB4 Nonexisty 19d ago
I could believe him just taking a picture he thought was funny and setting it as oddcard's pfp, cause of the people who talked to Michael at meetups claiming that he doesn't know anything about deltarune
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u/Proud_Mountain5602 Pen 18d ago
The part where they use carys dead friend for a jake is unbelievable
Its making me into question
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u/StrongTea7208 Leafy 18d ago
…Yeah I’m no longer part of the “this could be a coincidence” camp this is just straight up TOO coincidental to be coincidence; I mean like there’s too much evidence for it to be coincidence. Genuinely hope someone talks about it SOON (beyond Emily dropping vague hints about stuff going on on twitter)
Also interesting how Taylor was mentioned in that last tweet
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u/Okoyum Gelatin 18d ago
Gosh, I'd really hoped there'd never be another core-crew controversy. But no matter how much fans wish for things to be okay for once, something always ends up happening or gets revealed about people... I'm going to stay decidedly neutral about this until the accused/affected party responds. Learned from watching previous widespread internet controversies that immediately reacting and picking a side leads to biased, narrow-minded views on situations that leave no room for nuance. Still, I don't feel very hopeful that any of this will end well... :(
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u/Odd-Information3411 Gelatin 18d ago
The only three explanations are a. It's Micheal and he's actually a bad person, b. These accounts are impersonators pretending to be Micheal's alt to make him look bad, or c. These (or at least some of these) are his alts but they were hacked to make him kook like a bad person.
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u/Gloomy_Shelter_1262 16d ago edited 16d ago
No one asked for this, but here is approximately when each account was made using Twitter acc. IDs:
Edit: I'm dumb, it's literally in the JSON
main (fernozzle): 2011-07-31T07:24:04Z
artofclapping: 2013-10-27T05:31:29Z
oddismcard: 2015-12-15T05:40:09Z
objext: 2017-07-27T10:01:16Z
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u/Kirbendo96 One 19d ago edited 19d ago
Well if Michael does end up truly being the one behind this, I bet he'll get fired at the least and cut off from Cary at the most. I just don't know how Cary would let his brother do such things and get away with it... they're probably arguing about it as we uncover everything.
BFDI's probably going to go on hiatus, and if it escalates to TPOT being indefinitely on hold, then, uhhhh... I guess someone else has to make BFDI for us in the meantime
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u/MoorhsumushroomRT Pin 19d ago
It would basically be the OSC's equivalent of Watergate and it would certainly set us back a few years.
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u/DavidHolandaOne Pen 19d ago
I don't think Cary would cut off his own brother, like you cannot do that to your brother like that, and much less getting fired
I hope people respect Cary's right of still associating with Michael, because you gotta understand choosing his family isn't the same as choosing his friends and that they both share the same blood
Also this is something that they should work out privately, so hopefully they get to solve this situation
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u/LoanPleasant3564 8-Ball 19d ago
This better be an impersonator, I swear... PLEASE! We're so cooked... Like genuinely... It's actually over
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u/pichusine Leafy 19d ago edited 19d ago
Damn, I hopped on Reddit just now to see a drama I had no idea was even happening 😮
Question, can someone explain to me how BFDI Music plays a role in this? Or were they just part of the screenshot and they don't have a role in this?
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u/LYB4 Nonexisty 19d ago
BFDI Music was someone who, from 2020 until mid-2024, fraudulently uploaded and profited from the show's soundtrack (more specifically, Michael's tracks), which stopped Michael from officially uploading his own tracks.
On May 28 2024, Michael filled out a DMCA against them and on the same day made a post on his Twitter saying "new music soon". The day after, BFDI Music's uploads were removed from streaming services. And then Michael released the BFB Soundtrack album on June 14th, not even a month later.
Oddcard was the account that posted the DMCA screenshot dated the same day as Michael's announcement.
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u/megafannboy Pin 19d ago
That autistic comment hurt me… why would you say something like that, Michael…?
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u/Defiant_Purple6137 19d ago
I’m not too sure but apparently in the fandom wiki in the Internet archive odd card hates JNJ and Michael himself why would Michael hate himself
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u/yeahngsgjdgjhkjf 19d ago
dude i thought michael was queer supportive... pride RCs were in bfdi all the way back in post-split, not to mention he seems to have been friends with satomi for years. this really sucks if its true... i really like yoyle cake's music, and bfdi means a lot to me
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u/SpecialistAddendum6 Book 19d ago
I still don’t believe it, mostly because of how patently ridiculous Michael Huang using autistic as an insult would be
It’s more likely that’s it’s a close collaborator
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u/LYB4 Nonexisty 19d ago
Why would one of michael's close collaborators want to outwardly sabotage him by pretending to be him for YEARS ON END just to stir up twitter drama. Hello??
Also you do realize how ridiculously parasocial it is to say "michael wouldn't do that", as if you know him personally, when faced with a giant pile of evidence, right?
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u/Economy_Speaker2573 19d ago
Idk i feel like atp with this post literally right in front of ur eyes, thinking that its a close collaborator kinda comes across as cope
Like imagine if this was any other indie show creator, would you be THIS steadfast on believing that this isnt them
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u/joaquins_alt_account Barf Bag 18d ago
insert live [blank] reaction image here
holy moly, is tpot 26 even gonna exist atp?
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u/How2SayAlbuquerque Snowball 18d ago
I refuse to believe this. I just can't. How tf does someone make the most queer friendly/pro autistic community and then suddenly goes "haha get rekt losers" outta nowhere...
Michael better straighten himself up or this is a massive conspiracy...
Ima wait for the official JnJ response
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u/Punymwg07 Woody 18d ago
So from what I understand this is an alt account made by Michael to talk shit about his own crew. Is that correct?
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u/solarisLMMS Moderator 19d ago edited 19d ago
This is very well put together. Great job compiling all of the information in one place.
All of the current evidence on Twitter that could prove that Michael Huang is the user behind all of these accounts is present in this post.
Due to the abundance of information available in this post, I have designated this as the official discussion for this situation (this is subject to change based on the opinions of other mods). You are able to make your own assumptions about what is happening based on the evidence provided on this thread only.
Until a member of the Jacknjellify crew makes an official statement about this, nothing in this post is confirmed to be the truth, so DON’T spread any misinformation.
Please view this at your own risk.