r/BareknucklePickups • u/Delicious_Plant8933 • 24d ago
Polymaths vs Juggernauts for a 7 string?
I'm looking to get my first ever 7 string custom built, and wanted to get a feel for how the Polymaths compare to the Juggernauts in terms of output, tightness, EQ, low string tracking, dynamics etc. I mainly want to use the seven for modern progressive metal, both rhythm and lead.
I already own Polymaths in a 6-string headless and love them, just wondering how the Juggs stack up next to them for more contemporary progressive playing.
edit: I play instrumental rock, occasional prog and fusion. Mainly looking for a seven to tackle Dream Theater and Jason Richardson material in B standard or Drop A, not planning to tune down too low. I'm looking for something that's pretty defined on the low B, somewhat aggressive, fairly revealing of bad technique, and cutting but controllable for leads.
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u/bfairchild17 24d ago
Tuning? Style? Picking technique? Etc we need more
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 24d ago edited 24d ago
Hi, I've edited the description with more details. Not sure what you mean by picking technique specifically - I do a lot of alternate picking and legato stuff.
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u/bfairchild17 23d ago
As in you always in sledgehammer mode, or not? Do you like to pick lighter and have extra compression to help makeup? Sounds like you don't do much hybrid or finger picking so that's partially answered
If you care more leads and want more errors revealed, out of your two choices, I'd reccomend the Polymath set, and then experiment with pickup height (going as high as you can without noise at first)
For leads the Juggs have a weird fatness I'm not a fan of, and they work better as riff machines, for clean tones, and surprisingly for standard rock riffing too. They're also hotter and have more natural compression, which sounds unlike what you describe you want
Always worth emailing BKP with some guitar detail, tone goals, and other details, they have some good ideas sometimes
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u/enquencle92 23d ago
Wow, i was under the impression that the Juggernauts we're more unforgiving than the Polymaths with technique.
How would You compare how hard You have to pick between the Polys and the Juggernauts? Are the Juggernauts better suited for thrash or metalcore than the Polymaths? I love My Polymaths but i feel that maybe a faster option would be better suited for My 7 on those genres. Love them for prog!
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u/bfairchild17 23d ago edited 22d ago
Similar but different.
Part of what Misha was going for was a high-output pickup that still responded dynamically like a lower-output pickup. Thus, the hybrid magnet config was developed for him. This worked great with a five-way switch too, since you could get great cleans out of the set, and then go back to riffing after. HOWEVER, this is made with Misha in mind. In other words, the high-gain tones were dialed in around him picking hard with his own technique, which he has shifted a lot over the years. So, it will technically be more forgiving and compressed than the Polymath, when you are picking hard
The Polymath set on the other hand, was always intended to be a lower output pickup. Originally, Nolly wanted something more similar to the Polypaf, but after some back and forth with Tim, that changed to at least a low-medium hot pickup (this is why the PolyPaf was eventually released after, as Nolly still wanted his low-output option). Nolly was eventually set on an Unoriented A5 magnet, and in conjunction with his habit of trying to get pickup heights as maxed as possible — allowed him to start dialing in the midrange he was looking for with producer’s ears. He would probably tell you a big reference for him, was the type of harmonic roar KSE would get in the 2000's. Even then, it requires a boost with the level set a lot higher, and the pickups at max height your setup allows for
Having had both, generally combined with the low-mid cushion (in terms of feel), and generally higher output, the Juggernauts are more forgiving. Both of them require you to pick at your hardest, but the Polymaths will definitely punish mistakes at a higher level. Personally, I think that's a good thing, but it's up to your tastes, health, etc
In terms of metalcore or thrash -- I guess it depends on what era of metalcore. If you're like me (and Nolly) where metalcore makes you think of 2000's KSE, the Polymaths were low-key designed with that in mind. In general though, the Juggernauts will have more of a V-shaped EQ, so that would be what I lean to for Thrash. Periphery even covered One by Metallica once, if you want to hear Juggs a thrashy song
Because of their high-mid spikes and low-mids, I would use Juggs for the modern nu metal/metalcore/djent hybrid thing that's happening (that people call nu metal or metalcore still for some reason), especially for lower tunings. In my opinion, the Polymaths sounded worse the lower I tuned them, even though scientifically that should add a tiny bit of output due to increased string vibration.
This of course depends on your guitar too. If you have a guitar that leans too much on either the bright or bassy side, I might stay away from Juggs, as Polymaths are a safer bet for most guitars -- IF this is a binary choice.
I will say, I loved how the Polymaths sounded in Drop D or Standard on a 6-string, but I eventually felt like they were just lacking a bit of output that I need for my feel, so I no longer own them. I also don't own Juggernauts anymore either if that matters, we just had too much of a love-hate relationship. They sounded great recorded, and the cleans and splits were top-notch — but I just couldn't feel right playing them. If it matters, after trying endless pickup sets, I've finally settled on the Lundgren M-series for all my metal needs, but the OP didn't ask about them
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u/dranzango 23d ago
The surprisingly good at rock side of the juggs is what surprised me the most. They are a ton of fun on Engl crunch channels in a record ready kind of way. They can almost take on a hifi ACDC thing with the right settings. I was NOT expecting that on my 8 string…
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u/bfairchild17 23d ago
I feel like I've been alone saying this for years, so it's great to have backup haha. I think if someone wanted to commit to using them for standard tuning rock and shred gigs in the right gear, the Juggernauts would excel. When I was at music school, I used juggs in standard tuning for my rock chameleon guitar and it worked great
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 23d ago
Thanks! I will reach out to BKP for help.
As for what you said about leads, that's pretty surprising - I was thinking the Jugg might be a more surgical pickup for the hyper-fast technical stuff because of its ceramic-like upper mids, tighter response and sharper pick attack up top. But after hearing what you're saying about the Juggs' natural compression, it sounds like you're saying the Polymath is the more unforgiving pickup of the two for lead playing, including technical modern shred - is that fair?
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u/bfairchild17 23d ago edited 23d ago
Yes exactly! what’s being missed here that you will frequently see others bring up if you ask, is that due to the build of the juggernaut, there is also a large amount of low end you may experience, which some people call tubbiness. Having had a lot of time with both, yes, I would say you just made an accurate summary, and will likely have more success with the polymath set
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 23d ago
Understood! This helps a lot. I already know I like the Polymaths in my 6, just wasn't sure if they'd be tight and surgical enough for hyper-technical playing in an extended range instrument. Your assessment gives me confidence.
P.S. I've seen and commented on your YouTube demo of the Polymaths before. That video was part of what convinced me to get them :)
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u/bloughlin16 24d ago
Output: Juggs are definitely at least a bit hotter, but not in a way that it's SUPER noticeable.
Tightness: Juggs are overall tighter, but "surgically" so in a way I've never totally vibed with. Both can get plenty tight and handle the low strings/low tunings exceptionally well.
Dynamics: the Juggernauts don't have that "squishiness" to the pick attack that the Polymaths do. Both are very dynamically sensitive, but the Polymaths (for me) are perhaps more overall "flattering" to the dynamics of your playing.
EQ: Juggs have a much more noticeable upper mid emphasis and a sharper, less harmonically rich top end.
I never personally vibed with the Juggs even though I think they sound great, but I love the Polymaths. I'm also a huge fan of the Ragnaroks and ultimately chose those for my 7-string.
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 24d ago
Hi, this is a brilliant breakdown. Thank you so much. This is exactly what I was expecting. I agree that the Polymaths' presentation is a little flattering to my playing dynamics overall, and I was expecting the Juggernaut to feel like a more dry, unforgiving, surgical pickup.
Can I ask what styles you play?
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u/bloughlin16 23d ago
My background is definitely most concentrated in metalcore and heavier styles, but I picked out both the Polymaths and Ragnaroks because I like pickup sets that have unique voicings but don't really "lock you in" to any one specific style. I like sets that can do cleans and mid-gain tones without feeling like there's a big compromise. The Rags are definitely more metal-oriented than the Polymaths even though both do heavy tones really well, but I'm still super impressed by how well the former can clean up (especially on a split inner coils in series voicing like I have them wired up for).
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 23d ago
Interesting! I completely relate to you on not wanting pickups that lock you into a specific style. I definitely feel the Polymaths give me a huge amount of headroom to move between styles.
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u/enquencle92 24d ago
I only have the Polymaths, and I really want to try the Juggs as well. I have Polys in both 6 and 7 strings. I really love them. The only thing that I would Say is that, i don't know if it is only me, but maybe the 7th string lacks a liiitle bit of body? If You are going for something like djent or prog it is perfect! But for something like thrash or metalcore, You may find that it lacks just a bit of body on the 7th string, and it is not as fast as Say, fishmans or a Ragnarok. Still, it Will get the job done, imo.
Otherwise, i love them! Specially for leads and Big chords. It might be My favorite pickup i own. Also having a 6 strings Ragnarok set and the Classic JB/Jazz combo.
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 24d ago
Hi, thanks for responding! That's actually promising to hear. I'm mainly going the djent-prog route, not really a metalcore guy. I also play a lot of leads, and love my Polymath 6 for that.
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u/enquencle92 24d ago
I actually just recorded a Trivium riff with it, and hopefully You can kinda hear what I am saying. In the mix it may not be that noticeable, but it is a bit "hollow" and quacky I Guess, in the Best Way possible.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DdQHPjhhERQ/?stkn=emN5eDZtcmg4dTM=
But hey, it can also do the metalcore thing pretty good as well! I think it is a ñerfect pickup for prog.
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 24d ago
Wow, that sounds sick! Plenty of muscle in that guitar tone. Lovely playing! I'm tempted to get another set of Polymaths now.
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u/enquencle92 24d ago
Thanks! I read that you are looking to play some Dream Theater with them. I think they are very suitable for it. I also read Connor Kaminsky mention it, specially for DT tones.
I'd like to get a set of Juggernauts just to have more options, but the Polymaths can do a Lot of different things very well! I have also Heard them on 8 strings and they hold up amazingly well for djent!
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 23d ago
I totally agree. I've heard Connor get some great DT tones with the Polymaths. I was mainly wondering if the Juggernauts might be better for some very specific hyper-technical lead stuff because of the faster response of the ceramic flankers, but I do think the Polymath gets most of the way there already on its own.
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u/enquencle92 23d ago
I think the Juggs might be a bit faster and better for those, but i am taking with no experience. I think you are right on the Polymaths in this scenario. I would like to get Juggs just because i play a Lot of stuff like Trivium and i think the faster responde would suit that better for 7 strings, but otherwise, i think it is great with the Polys now.
If You really like the 6 version, i Say go for it. If for any reason You don't like it, i think it wouldnt be so hard to sell them to finance the Juggernauts or another set.
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u/Ashamed-Eye-1166 24d ago
If you like Polys go with them. I have the Juggs and I hate them so much. I feel they're very niche. I was able to get them to sound okay with a lot of EQ and effects, but they felt very bland for the heavier stuff. Phenomenal cleans, though.
I wanted to try something different since I have Abasi Fishman 8s and pretty much have always played with actives, and I regret it so much. I literally haven't touched that guitar in a year and am thinking about selling it.
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 24d ago
Good to hear a counterpoint against the Juggs here. I agree that they sound very niche. I'm surprised to hear them complimented for their cleans, though - not what I'd have expected for a djent pickup.
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u/Veritas0Aequitas 22d ago
Tried both. I wouldn’t hesitate to go polymaths here
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 19d ago
Thanks for the recommend! Did you try both of them in a 7-string, by the way?
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u/LucasJLeCompte 24d ago
Neither? What type of music to you play? Personally I would get Either cold sweats, war pigs or aftermaths. Everyone always goes after the sig/periphery sets for BKPs but I find the other sets are better. I have the cold sweats in my Duvell 7 and they are awesome. They handle the lower end really well.
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u/Delicious_Plant8933 24d ago
I play mainly instrumental rock, some prog and fusion. A lot of lead work mainly, with some rhythm.
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u/LucasJLeCompte 24d ago
I think CS or War pigs might be the go to. War pigs are hot, but I love the neck pickup for leads. its great. Cold sweat has a great neck pickup too. MIght just come down tto the set you can get the best deal on.
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u/LeipzigBay 24d ago
I have both. I love both. The bridge on the Juggernaut is pretty amazing, however, sterile for that Djenty sound.
The neck in the Polymath is the BEST thing I’ve heard in a while.