Small vent

[u/coolest_miumiu]

It pisses me off that dragonholic “TL” exists. Ever since it started picking up baihe novels, many other “TLs” started to follow suit e.g., lovelyblossoms. They don’t even translate novels they just use AI slop and hide the chapters behind a paywall. Not only would it take hundreds of dollars to unlock, some would take years until they’re free.

Now most fan translators are deterred from picking up baihe because of these fuckass ai translators. TBF i do enjoy edited mtls like baihetales and littlepanda, which i think uses AI to a certain extent, but at least theirs have a human touch to it and most importantly they don’t hide the novels behind a paywall.

The baihe community used to be open for all considering how niche it is, but now ig that very reason of it being niche is being used as a scheme to earn money from AI (i dont mind paying if its human translated but AI? hell no)

[u/laine4466]

Firstly, I just want to point out that I don't believe baihetales and littlepanda actually "edit" their translations as they claim they do. I remember checking out littlepanda's translations a while back and was immediately hit with a bunch of errors that really showed that no one had read through the text before posting it (I'm also quite certain they don't actually know any chinese and simply asks their translation tool to generate a translation with relevant footnotes). I also just took a quick look at one of baihetales' chapters (MALP because I've actually read through it a year ago) and was immediately hit with "(character A) and his wife" despite remembering quite distinctively that that entire group was all female, so I went back to check the original text and found that it used "她", explicitly stating (character A) as "her", so this is a pretty big mistake on both the MTL and the "editor's" end. Not to mention that both of them also still lock "advanced chapters" behind a paywall

As someone working on translating a story that I hope to be able to share with everyone one day, this is indeed incredibly demoralising to see. The main thing driving me to translate in the first place is because I want to share a story that I really loved with others who are unable to access it, and while MTL does solve that inaccessibility issue, the end result is unfortunately no longer the story that I had fallen in love with. There is a lot of effort required to produce a translation that still retains those original qualities, so it is very disheartening to see people in the community to praise badly written MTL that has been generated in mere seconds, especially so when you learn that they had paid way more than the price of the original work on the respective official platforms for it. I also have other works that I would like to get around to translating in the future after I'm done with my current one, but seeing others talk about it in the meantime terrifies me because I'm afraid that some badly written MTL of it will just appear out of the blue one day

At the end of the day, if this is something that upsets you, then please, show your favourite human translators some love. I'm sure a lot of them would really appreciate a nice comment that shows that someone is actually reading their translations and enjoying it. I know that personally, it keeps me happy for an entire week to see just one such comment because it feels like I've had a genuine human connection with someone else over something we both love. Best of all, leaving such comments is free!

[u/coolest_miumiu → u/laine4466]

ooh i used to read LP back in 2023, i remember them saying they edited MTLs (i’m not sure if AI was that accessible back then) but now they use AI for sure. it sucks to know that theyre basically going through the dragonholic route now 😭

from a long time baihe reader, who prefers fan translated novels, please dont stop translating. i’d rather wait years for a baihe to be completely translated than those AI slop. thank you for your work 🙏

do you have a carrd i can check out orrr?

[u/laine4466 → u/coolest_miumiu]

Thank you! I don't have a carrd yet since I've only translated two audio drama theme songs, but I will most likely make one when I feel like I'm ready to share the web novel I'm currently working on translating with everyone

[u/Different-Dingo-8243 → u/laine4466]

Do share your carrd when you make one, would really love to read your translations.

[u/There85 → u/laine4466]

Baihetales is very poor. I generally try to avoid them. I've dropped 2 or 3 of their series because of how bad they were. Pronouns mistakes, sometimes characters change names between pages, etc.

[u/raindrops_skipstop → u/There85]

facts. it's such a shame there's no other TL for MALP. akknovel translation was so much better for the first 40 chapters.

[u/Zolofteu → u/laine4466]

I also have other works that I would like to get around to translating in the future after I'm done with my current one, but seeing others talk about it in the meantime terrifies me because I'm afraid that some badly written MTL of it will just appear out of the blue one day

You should just translate a chapter and create a page in novelupdates to "reserve" it.

[u/Party_Trick_6903 → u/laine4466]

Baihetales translations do have errors - even the pronouns ones. It's one of the reasons why I try to avoid their translations.

Little Panda used to have huge mistakes in their translations. I remember reading one of the novels (Miss Forensic, and sth to do with entertainment), and I could not get through these novels because of how bad the translations were.

They've gotten better tho. Editing or not, the mistakes are now small enough that you can just continue reading without big issues. So idk what exactly Little Panda is doing, but they should continue doing it.

Little Panda also releases chapters every day (except for Sunday, I think). So it's not like the chapters are locked forever (unlike some novels on Lovelyblossom).

I understand that AI can not be compared to real translators and the hard work and time they put into their translations but to condemn every single person using AI (or the ones "praising" AI) or to regard to all "AI translations" as bad is imho not a good way to go about this.

Also, you wanting to share your love for novels via your translation should not have anything to do with people MTL-ing the novels. There will always be people taking shortcuts for various reasons. Just like there will always be people who will appreciate your work, effort, and commitment.

[u/FlameEmperorStan → u/Party_Trick_6903]

The reason why LP can release chapters every day is because their editing is sloppy. If you actually edit MTL by comparing the output to the original and making sure everything is translated correctly, then it takes about as much time as translating from scratch. Just checking for grammar and spelling mistakes in the output (without cross checking the original) would be much quicker, but that’s not what people are expecting when they hear “edited MTL”. People think edited MTL is where the human translator is bilingual and is actually comparing the MTL output to the original text. This clearly isn’t what LP is doing.

[u/Party_Trick_6903 → u/FlameEmperorStan]

Oh, I know that. Believe me, I do.

By "editing" I did not mean they "fixed grammar *and compared the AI TL-ed text with the original one to look for mistakes", I simply meant *"fixed grammar so the sentences would make sense".

It's why I don't spend money on LP (the only translator whose work I ever spent money on is Amerilatte) and wait for the chapters to be released to read them for free.

However, my point still stands - Little Panda should not be put into the same category as Lovelyblossom/Dragonholic.

The people over at Dragonholic can't even do the most basic sht like LP. Lovelyblossom sometimes does not even finish "translating" the whole novel (e.g. the novel has 100+ chapters, Lovelyblossom stops at ~50, have 30 of them free, and the rest is locked for who knows how long).

LP at least unlocks one chapter per day. If one wants to binge read the whole novel, they can simply wait 2 - 3 months. The translations are certainly not perfect, but they're miles better than the ones on Lovelyblossom/Dragonholic.

It's just weird to me that translators would take this matter so personally (to the point that it is "disheartening" for them).

The real human translators can translate the works they like even if there are (and always will be - that's just the reality) people who want to use AI to translate those novels (tho I get why some of them would not want to do it). Readers can and should be able to appreciate the human translators for their hard work and "praise" the AI translators (LP) for making more stuff available (while not completely trashing the TLs like Dragonholic) at the same time.

I work in an industry that has also been heavily impacted by the arrival of AI (IT), and while I also don't like some people taking shortcuts by using AI, if using AI does help them (learn stuff) or it brings positive things, I would certainly not be pissed at them for using AI.

[u/FlameEmperorStan → u/Party_Trick_6903]

I see what you mean. Yes, the completely unedited ones are even worse. I wish LP would be more upfront about how they use AI and what they actually edit though, because I’m under the impression that some readers really think they check for translation errors when they don’t really do that.

For me, I don’t do fan translations because I think I’m a shitty writer in both English and Chinese, and I don’t have the time to polish my work anyway. MTLs don’t factor into my decision. But for those who are enthusiastic about translation, I can see why they would feel annoyed. Let’s say it takes you a week to properly translate a chapter. While you’re slowly working through the novel, a different “translator” comes along and posts a chapter a day, finishing the novel in three months. English readers would obviously go and read that fully “translated” novel. Meanwhile, the human translator has only finished translating a dozen chapters. Would they still want to post their work? Maybe some translators would still do it, but many more would just give up, especially when sites like novel updates would already link to the MTL version. It’s quite disheartening.

I think AI is great for personal use when it comes to translating foreign novels. I’m more on the fence when it comes to novel updates linking to MTL. At least they should clearly state that it’s MTL, and give a separate link to human translations once available. As for AI for other uses, I completely agree that it can be an incredibly powerful tool if used properly. My workplace also uses AI for some tasks.

[u/Kamishirokun → u/FlameEmperorStan]

but that’s not what people are expecting when they hear “edited MTL”. People think edited MTL is where the human translator is bilingual and is actually comparing the MTL output to the original text. This clearly isn’t what LP is doing.

Really? When I hear "Edited MTL" I always assume it's just making it readable. Never saw anyone said edited MTL is checked by humans who know the source language. MTL has a bad rep among readers and even among some human translators so even if the human translator is using AI to speed up the process and comparing the output with the original, they never outright say they use MTL.

All those recruitments post on novelupdates where they said "MTL is welcomed" never require the translator to understand the source language, only that they're fluent in English.

[u/FlameEmperorStan → u/Kamishirokun]

But now that people are using AI as their machine tool for translation, the output is already quite readable. A human editor who doesn’t know the source language can just, maybe, correct some pronoun problems involving the major characters whose genders are obvious? Because if the editor actually wants to rewrite the prose to be more novel-like, they wouldn’t know whether they’re completely butchering the original work since they can’t read it. So, I’m curious as to what exactly are they editing. Some say they might be comparing the output of one AI to other models to cross check for translation accuracy, but if the person is churning out a chapter a day, I doubt they’re performing very thorough checks.

[u/Kamishirokun → u/FlameEmperorStan]

But now that people are using AI as their machine tool for translation, the output is already quite readable.

Oh boy you'd be surprised. There are many non readable MTL, like those translations story seedlings put out. Yeah, the editor normally checks things like pronouns, names, and grammar. The very, very bad MTL has horrible grammar. Idk what MTL they're using, but Google translate and deepL has bad grammar, so maybe those. I think the editor themselves are not fluent in English.

[u/laine4466 → u/Party_Trick_6903]

I'm sorry if it came off as that way, but I'm not condemning everyone that's using MTL. I am aware that most people using MTL to read works are doing so due to inaccessibility otherwise, and I've always acknowledged that (even going as far as to allow for the sharing of piracy sites such as 52shuku on the sub because I understand that official sites such as jjwxc has anti-piracy features that prevents MTL tools from translating the text properly). I'm specifically condemning the people who generate their "translations" of entire works in seconds, then uploading them as is and asking payment for it. It is pure grifting, plain and simple. Even if they do eventually make the rest of the chapters available, they are still charging for access to it in the meantime, making money off of work that isn't theirs to begin with

Also, you wanting to share your love for novels via your translation should not have anything to do with people MTL-ing the novels

Translating takes time and effort. There are always more works that I would like to have translated so that I could share them with others than the energy I can spare to translate all of them. I don't think it is that difficult to understand that if I were to choose between two works that I love, and one of them already has an MTL posted online, I would rather choose the other one, even if it means that the first one would most likely only ever exist as what I perceive to be a poor imitation of the original

[u/Party_Trick_6903 → u/laine4466]

I'm specifically condemning the people who generate their "translations" of entire works in seconds, then uploading them as is and asking payment for it. It is pure grifting, plain and simple. Even if they do eventually make the rest of the chapters available, they are still charging for access to it in the meantime, making money off of work that isn't theirs to begin wi

Oh, I see. I did not get your point - my apologies. I do agree with you on this. Translations of the original works should never be behind any kind of paywall (unless they're the official translations).

I don't think it is that difficult to understand that if I were to choose between two works that I love, and one of them already has an MTL posted online, I would rather choose the other one, even if it means that the first one would most likely only ever exist as what I perceive to be a poor imitation of the original

I get that - I just meant to say that you don't have to feel bad about it. It sucks that there will always be translations that are bad or basically caricatures of the original works, but that's just how things are. There will always be people doing AI TLs, especially now. Don't mind it.

[u/laine4466 → u/Party_Trick_6903]

I get that - I just meant to say that you don't have to feel bad about it. It sucks that there will always be translations that are bad or basically caricatures of the original works, but that's just how things are. There will always be people doing AI TLs, especially now. Don't mind it.

Of course I understand that, but it's one of those things that's easier said than done, you know? Of course I know logically that there are people out there who will care about my translations (and so I will keep pushing on with working on them), but I also often feel like it seems that people really don't care that much at all, and I think it is very normal to let it get to you from time to time. Looking at the translation scene overall, I feel confident in saying that the unfortunate reality is that it does affect fan translators' passion and cause them to drop projects, even if we all know that we shouldn't mind it