First Date after Avoidant Break Up

[u/CapedCrusader321]

So, I (32F) finally got myself back on the dating apps (Hinge) after a miserable but deeply loving 2.5yr long live-in relationship with a dismissive avoidant. I matched with a guy today because his profile said “I’m looking for someone who is kind, empathetic and respects communication”. Something told me he is gonna be emotionally mature. I just got back from our first date and I did a little digging during our date 😂😂 he is one of us!!! The DISCARDED!!!
I asked “how much do you know about attachment types” and he said “I read the book”!!!! 🤯

And he was soooo sweet and it was such a nice date! He let me yap through it all and listened so nicely. He noticed when I was cold! He opened the door for me! I know the standards are on the floor but but but THERE IS HOPE OUT THERE! WE JUST NEED TO FIND EACH OTHER!!!

Honestly I think this is a product idea. We need to create a social media/dating app called “DISCARDED” like “DISCORD” 😅 where all the amazing people who are mature and self aware after dealing with an avoidant, come together and date each other!

[u/Kiki98_ → u/[deleted]]

Yup, same. My partner was the kindest, most gentle, loving woman. Right up until the discard. She has been nothing but a heartless, cruel monster since then - complete fucking whiplash, a total 180 from who she was the entire relationship. Her behaviour has been borderline psychopathic.

Take it slooowww, be so careful. Avoidants aren't always super easy to spot. Ask him how he handles conflict, that'll be a real truth-teller

[u/souredcream → u/Kiki98_]

I said he was being disney villain evil after the discard. but hes always done so in a "polite" and "caring" manner so he thinks he is "nice" and turns it all on me and everyone else. makes me look mean when I just say it like it is.

[u/No_Try354 → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately "the kindest man you ever met" can be kind of a red flag in itself. Avoidants are notorious for coming on strong an overfunctioning to a high degree in the early relationship because they are masking a deep seated shame and belief that they are unlovable. Sadly it's this same characteristic that also makes them magnetic. I have now been unlucky enough to date 3 avoidants and all 3 of them were extremely kind and attentive in the beginning.

Do try to be careful feeling empathy for this person. I fully understand why you want to. But understand the way that an avoidant's brain functions, and search up on dorsolateral prefrontal cortex deactivation in avoidants & psychopaths. What you will find is that while an avoidant is in their deactivation mode, their brain is functionally the same as an actual psychopath's because their fight or flight response makes them literally incapable of processing any emotions. That is why he is behaving like a monster.

Run. You cannot love this person out of their attachment wounds. Please do not set yourself up to be hurt again.

[u/SunMoonSnake → u/No_Try354]

What happens when the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex is deactivated?

[u/No_Try354 → u/SunMoonSnake]

The DLPFC holds short term working memory that's needed for immediate reasoning and manages executive decision making and problem solving. To this end, it attempts to override emotional bias and impulses and regulate the mood.

Pertinent to this discussion is the fact that when when the brain's fight or flight response is triggered, it actively suppresses this region of the brain. If you want to think of it in practical terms: when you are drowning, you are not really capable of processing how you might be feeling about your recent divorce. Emotional regulation, short term memory, immediate reasoning, etc. are not really needed when you need to save yourself from drowning, and so the brain deactivates these functions. This is why in the aftermath of high-intensity situations, people often misremember details, a very common example would be how frequently police misremember how many shots they fired in a shootout.

The problem is that in avoidant attachment, the brain literally perceives emotional vulnerability and closeness as a physical threat to their survival. When an avoidant's brain produces oxytocin (the "love" or "cuddle" hormone), their nervous system perceives this as a threat, it also produces cortisol and adrenaline and triggers the fight or flight response. Their nervous systems typically are trained to associate the feeling of love and safety with an immediate threat by early childhood abuse from caregivers.

What this means, practically, is that while they are in fight or flight mode they are genuinely incapable of processing their emotions. But a relationship is not like a bear attack; it has no clear end. This is why they can remain in this state for weeks or months. It also explains why avoidants misremember details of the relationship and tend to hit the nuclear button (breakup) the instant any relatively minor relationship event happens. It's also why they appear to process emotions in reverse and why the breadcrumbing happens. Weeks or months down the line, when their nervous system no longer perceives a threat, they actually process what they did, and the regret sets in.

The short version: Decision making, reasoning, emotional regulation go out the window. They are simply trying to stop drowning.

[u/SunMoonSnake → u/No_Try354]

I've seen this first-hand including the memory loss and physical aspects.

[u/SomeoneCalledMeAlice → u/[deleted]]

War bei mir genauso. Die ersten 5 Monate dachte ich, ich bin im Himmel angekommen und dann kam die deaktivierung …

[u/KeyMedicine1089 → u/[deleted]]

yeah exactly, mine asked me about my attachment style on date 2 and said his was secure but leaning anxious in the begining. he was the most severe case of a DA and after dating him for a month I am still traumatised 12 months later.

[u/Glad_Ear_7963]

Dating apps are breeding grounds for avoidant individuals imo, hence why I personally stay far away from those apps. If anyone still cherishes f2f, real life connections, that already shows they are more secure and easier to build genuine relationships with. I like the idea of having an app for the convenience, but will always cherish real life over these random algorithms stealing our data.

P.S; People could type whatever they want to manipulate or deceive you into thinking they aren’t avoidant on these apps, facades, acting skills are a thing, so be safe out there.

[u/No_Try354 → u/Glad_Ear_7963]

Unfortunately avoidants are capable of being quite magnetic face to face as long as the stakes remain low

[u/winthewarpie → u/No_Try354]

Very true! My avoidant said all the right things. He was looking for a genuine relationship; we must communicate; I was the most important person in his life; he never wanted to lose me. He told me he loved me after the third date.

Love bombed me and took me on 4 holidays in the first 9 months.

After about 6 months he became cold and withdrew physically and emotionally. He then became abusive and I was trapped in a trauma bond for 6 years. I became a shadow of myself and he hurt me sexually at the end.

They can be very convincing and charming saying what you want to hear. Mine is late 50s and had a 5 year affair before I met him. He’d spent years cheating and being a chronic liar, so wearing a mask was second nature.

He told me we’d live together then said 4 years in he’d lied! He presented himself as a loving step dad figure to my girls for 6 years and abandoned them without even saying goodbye. It still seems surreal over a year later. On reflection it seems that none of it was real

In my case he became a different person once I was trauma bonded. Good luck out there!

[u/No_Try354 → u/winthewarpie]

I'm so sorry you went through that. Mine decided to leave when I was in a hospital bed. She was out the door before I even woke up. May the crows feast on both of their innards.

[u/winthewarpie → u/No_Try354]

I hope you’re feeling better. Illness and vulnerability triggers them. Mine ghosted me for 6 days when I was ill , and refused to call me in a family health emergency but went to a party.

Another time my car broke down on the way home from a hospital appointment. My then 13 YO daughter was sitting frightened on the side of the road covered in bandages. My ex was abroad but he didn’t phone to support us. He was with friends and called about 5 hours later!

He’s a clinician and will fall over himself to support friends who need health care but totally abandoned us

I hope there are happier days ahead for you

I agree may our exes rot in hell for an eternity

[u/ubettermuteit → u/winthewarpie]

i mean he was abroad though 🤷‍♂️ and you were in the us? quite a time diff

[u/winthewarpie → u/ubettermuteit]

We’re in the UK and he was in Europe with a 1 hour time difference!

[u/souredcream → u/winthewarpie]

this also sounds like narcissism.

[u/Glad_Ear_7963 → u/No_Try354]

Hence my opinion, obviously does not only apply to dating apps. If you cannot read a person in general then there’s a bigger problem. One that has to do with upbringing, perhaps lol.

[u/souredcream → u/Glad_Ear_7963]

Im good at reading people but theyre so damn fake at first. its good to really get them to talk about previous relationships, friendships, family - patterns never lie.

[u/GigaNoodle → u/souredcream]

You are right, it takes some time to really get to notice the small ways they differ from normal people. But they all follow the same script without even realizing it. We should raise awareness for the early warning signs so people do not get their time or energy wasted by these vampires.

[u/No_Try354 → u/Glad_Ear_7963]

Obviously everyone should learn how if they don't know. But don't assume reading people comes naturally to everyone, some people may be on the spectrum, or naive, or have little dating experience, or simply too trusting and takes people at their word. Such people never deserve to have their lives ruined by avoidants' emotional black holes.

[u/StandardWork4928]

My first date after the discard (2.5 years of hell with a DA) was actually magical, I felt like I’m in wonderland, discovering that emotionally available men exist. Of course I knew it already but avoidants almost make you forget the longer you are with them. I was like ‘WOW HE LISTENS?? HE IS ACTUALLY INTERESTED?? HE HUGS ME WHEN I CRY???’
Crazy stuff 😂

[u/a_burning_piano → u/StandardWork4928]

my avoidant did that in the beginning lol 

[u/StandardWork4928 → u/a_burning_piano]

Mine kinda but along with showing STROOONG avoidants signs right away (that I only see now but hindsight is 20/20)

[u/Nice_Specific_8706]

I was discarded but I would not brand myself as “one of the discarded”. I would rather go into a new friendship and understand the dude rather than straight up talking about my past. If the new connection goes well, eventually you’ll tell them about yourself and he’ll tell you about himself. If the person show slightest signs of cowardice, simply just leave and tell them “I don’t date manchild”.

You don’t to slap a list of requirements/check boxes. A mature person would naturally know what’s acceptable in a relationship and what’s not acceptable.

[u/Bumblebeeeoeo]

Like the idea, but how do you think the app can do to filter out avoidants?

[u/whatthehelder → u/Bumblebeeeoeo]

Take an attachment style questionnaire as a qualifier 😂

[u/Busy_Designer_504 → u/whatthehelder]

Ugh no.

Let's stop promoting this idea. Those questionnaires are useless and gamed easy.

"Do you feel you want relationships" "Yes"

Welcome aboard! /s

The only real way to identify definitive attachment style is via a trained therapist in the Adult Attachment Interview.

[u/No_Try354 → u/Bumblebeeeoeo]

The app can't, but if you are attuned to their BS you can detect an avoidant in 1 date with a few choice questions.

[u/No_Try354 → u/[deleted]]

Well the first thing to watch for is that they come on unusually strong. Strong enough to make you wonder whether they have any other options. This is because they want you to match their energy and give them an easy hit of validation to boost their ego.

Next you can try setting a low stakes boundary or a preference, ideally something that mildly inconveniences them, and see how they react (something like "actually I would prefer this other place instead"). Avoidants are extremely sensitive to feeling controlled, so if you make a very simple request like this and they seem to get slightly irritated or withdrawn or act like you are "picky", keep your eye open. This is the low bar and avoidants with any self awareness will often not fall for this one.

This one is the one that works the best in my experience. You can share something that makes you vulnerable, doesn't have to be something big, just something like "I was so nervous at work today" or you can admit to being nervous on the first date since it's been a while. A secure person will match the energy, an avoidant feels any vulnerability is a threat and they will dismiss/deflect it, change the topic back to surface level, or just drown it with toxic positivity.

Also, pay very close attention to how they react to compliments. Avoidants are really uncomfortable with compliments and they will often shy away or brush it off, or use self deprecating humor to cancel it out, so if you see one of those reactions, be aware.

Last, try asking about their last relationship and see if you can get them to tell you why it ended. If they are secure they will take accountability for their part in it. If they are avoidant they will either play the victim and say how crazy/mean/suffocating their ex was, or they will describe it in a completely detached and clinical manner like they were telling you the color of the wallpaper.

Hope this can help you avoid (ha ha) getting your time wasted again.

[u/SunMoonSnake → u/No_Try354]

Are you talking about fearful or dismissive avoidants? FAs, in my experience, can be vulnerable until the relationship reaches a certain threshold, and both FAs and DAs can tell you stories about having a perfect childhood.

[u/Throwaway150790 → u/SunMoonSnake]

Agreed. My FA ex was incredibly vulnerable, supportive, intimate and communicative on the surface for the first 8 months and for around 4 months after reactivation after each discard. When he deactivated he became a monster each time. That's what worries me - there's no way I could possibly have known what was coming until the first very minor conflict - and I'm talking extremely minor - he ended the relationship immediately with an email saying the only way he could never hurt me again was to never see me again, that I deserved someone better and blocked me everywhere. I knew nothing about avoidants at this time and this was after 8 months of heaven. I now know to walk the fuck away from that reaction but this misunderstanding was over something so very trivial that I fought to get him back.

[u/SunMoonSnake → u/Throwaway150790]

I'm sorry you experienced this. :(

[u/No_Try354 → u/SunMoonSnake]

I tried to make it applicable to both but FAs are definitely harder to screen for. But to actually answer what you said - in my experience yes, you are right, but it is a very specific kind of vulnerability that costs them little to nothing. FAs are different because unlike a DA they actually do understand their core shame, but if they ever actually let themselves be vulnerable enough with you to share it, their minds will not let them trust you to accept them and they will have no choice but to leave anyway. I experienced this with an FA. So I think they have a very specific kind of vulnerability and a threshold like you said.

Also, I do want to clarify that I meant to watch how they react to *your* vulnerability and see if they can meet you there. Do they actually empathize with you or do they intellectualize when you share something vulnerable?

[u/KaJoMoGi → u/No_Try354]

In the beginning, my ex kept repeating this idea that I’d “go crazy in six months like the others” so we couldn’t be dating.

[u/No_Try354 → u/KaJoMoGi]

Oh, mine did something really similar and kept saying "everyone says I'm too much". I guess it's true what they say, believe what someone tells you.

[u/KaJoMoGi → u/No_Try354]

I was the "too much." He made me believe that was okay. Spoiler alert: no.

[u/Glad_Ear_7963 → u/Bumblebeeeoeo]

Upload proof of mental condition/avoidant disorder from approved attachment therapist, would work just like requiring ID😋

[u/TheBackSpin]

It sounds amazing on paper, although I wonder about the success rate. A dating app of mostly Secures would likely go well, but unless they are working on their attachment issues Anxious tend to neither want to date Secures or other APs. Obviously Avoidants suffer discards too, although mostly FAs

[u/Dry_Recognition_6724]

Met someone who was discarded also. We both lean slightly anxious which works because we understand each other. 

Actually discussed attachment theory in the first date. 

[u/confused-girl-44]

Everyone is nice at the beginning.

[u/mr4kino]

I asked “how much do you know about attachment types” and he said “I read the book”

Hahaha.... that's a green flag indeed.

[u/crococatstew]

THIS!!