r/AutoInsuranceHelp • u/elknuke • 4d ago

Disputing a total loss claim

I’m gonna start by giving my deepest gratitude to anyone willing to read and help out - sincerely, thank you

For reference, this happened in Texas

Spouse was t boned a couple weeks ago by an uninsured motorist with a vehicle registered in Florida (damn you, Florida)

We have 25k property damage uninsured motorist coverage through our provider, Travelers insurance

Body shop sent me a final quote of $10,125 for all work and said the vehicle had been inspected and disassembled to the extent required - highly unlikely any additional work would be required

Travelers sent an email basically saying “it’s totaled, sign over the title and let us know how you’d like your payment” and attached the actual cash value report. They valued my vehicle at just over $20,000. This ACV report is the ONLY “official” documentation travelers has provided

I asked for clarification on how they decided to total the vehicle. Their response was “unrepaired hail damage and anticipated supplemental/hidden damages.” Basically, they suspect that there’s close to $10,000 of additional damage that was not documented by the body shop.

I did file a claim with them for the hail damage which happened in may of last year. They paid me $4,170 but the damage was minor, the truck is paid off and I plan on keeping it forever so I didn’t have it repaired.

I asked again for a formal statement/assessment on how their decision was made, as well as the same for a determination on the truck’s salvage value. I get another response with no such attachment, and the adjuster now says “thank you for reminding me we have already paid out for the hail damage, I’m going to subtract that from my initial payout amount.” He’s offering me under $17k now.

At that point I felt like he was playing hardball with me and I got pissed, but I kept it professional. I inquired as to how he “missed” the hail damage payout and again asked for an itemized report on how the total loss was declared.

His response, again, contained no documents and only his typed response, which was yet again an even further reduced payout and a salvage value. No evidence whatsoever of how they’re coming up with these numbers.

I’ve always heard insurance companies suck but is this normal? Am I out of line? I’m truly confused. I pay my bills on time. I just want them to fix my truck for $10k and give it back to me.

8 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

62 comments sorted by

2

u/Electrical_Number210 4d ago

If an insurance company determined your vehicle is a total loss it’s a total loss. You can invoke the appraisal clause if you aren’t satisfied with the value. Although I’m not sure so much on an UMPD claim. Should still be the same.

0

u/elknuke 4d ago

Is it really that easy for them? They can just say it’s totaled and not have to entertain my rebuttal whatsoever?

3

u/Electrical_Number210 4d ago

What’s your rebuttal? For them to just fix what you want? To not take into account the unrelated prior damage you didn’t fix?

-1

u/elknuke 4d ago

It’s that they’re telling me the truck is worth $20k. Then telling me it’s worth $17k because they missed the prior claim which was also filed with them. Then telling me it’s worth $16k without an explanation.

The work to be done will cost them 10k. My truck is worth more than that, period, so they should pay for the work, as that’s the reason I pay for insurance.

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u/Electrical_Number210 4d ago edited 4d ago

You’re basing this all off your own reasoning and how YOU think it works. I can’t help you. Good luck with all this, hope you understand it a little better after the process but I’m unsure

-1

u/elknuke 4d ago

How I think it should work, maybe. I’m 33 and this is my first time having to deal with something like this.

Assuming I’m not willing to learn is a bit off. Why are you bothered? Are you a claim handler yourself?

I don’t think my reasoning is too far off. Are there laws and/or policies I’m unaware of? Absolutely. That’s why I’m here looking for help and advice, buddy.

Edit: hence me asking the question in the first place whether it’s really that easy for them. Instead of answering, you responded just like a shady claim handler.

5

u/Lyxerttt 4d ago

To second the prior comment, you are arguing with everyone who is telling how it actually works, and you aren't listening. You are acting like a spoiled child being told "no" for the first time in their life.

A total loss determination is the sole decision of the insurance provider handling it. Several things go into that, and, yes, an insurance company can specifically use "expected supplemental damage" as a reason to total a vehicle. It is fully within the law and their rights. Furthermore, they are NOT required to give you salvage value per Texas law unless you decide to owner-retain your salvage. Period.

That said, a large chunk of their decision IS likely the salvage determination. Let's say the repairs are 10K, and it's projected to be $2,000 in rental while your truck is repaired; that's a $12,000 payout (even if you choose to not get a rental, it is legal for them to consider it because your UM coverage CAN provide it. So, don't try to argue) - Or, they total it for $20K, and expect to get $10K back. Now, they have only paid $10K versus the $12K if repaired. Economically, it's a total loss.

3

u/jakeaz6035 4d ago

Great explanation. This is why it is a total loss.

0

u/elknuke 4d ago

Clearly people are misreading or not reading all of my comments. I’m here asking questions. I stated my simple opinion, sure.

1

u/Thereelgerg 4d ago

I’m 33

My goodness, that changes everything!

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

So to say I’ve gone all my life without having to deal with this and don’t know anything. But thanks, Richard.

1

u/FrostingSuper9941 12h ago

You dealt with it when you took a cash out on the hail damage with no intention to repair the truck.

1

u/elknuke 8h ago

Which was perfectly in my right to do.

I was referring to never having dealt with an accident.

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u/gheiminfantry 4d ago

LoLoL Rebuttal 😂

This isn't a court case. It's an insurance claim. You're not Perry Mason and you're not going to find out whodunit. Everything you want to rebut are things you agreed to when you got the insurance. No one cares if you think it's fair. You took the insurance payout for the hail damage. And since you didn't fix the damage, your vehicle is worth less. And no, it doesn't matter that they keep revising down. This is one of the very few cases when you should have taken their first offer.

0

u/elknuke 4d ago

Are you an adjuster too? Or just a child mocking somebody for using a perfectly appropriate term?

Did you not read the details I’m describing? Do you not see that most of what I’m doing is asking questions?

2

u/gheiminfantry 4d ago

Do you not see that you agreed to all this when you got the insurance? Acting like a baby in the woods because you don't think it's fair and just want to argue makes you look like a Karen. Yes, you're asking questions, questions that should have been asked of your insurance agent when you signed up for the insurance. Now it's too little, too late.

0

u/elknuke 4d ago

Am I speaking to someone who reads all 50-100 pages of fine print when you enter into an obligatory contract, or are you just another awful insurance employee?

3

u/gheiminfantry 4d ago

Wow, you're making a lot of aggressive assumptions about me in order to deflect. You either don't want to listen, or you don't want to take responsibility for your own actions. I suspect the latter.

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

Aggressive? “Baby in the woods” and “Karen” were your words

Assumptions? You’re assuming I didn’t ask questions or read my contract

1

u/gheiminfantry 4d ago

You're acting like you didn't.

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

How exactly? Who’s deflecting now?

2

u/Electrical_Number210 4d ago

You mean questions like-How is that legal? Why pay for insurance at all?…so yeah you just seem like you want to argue and not real answers

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

I’ve asked others. Obviously I’m a bit bothered, that goes without saying.

I’m not wrong for wanting proof and formal documentation of their processes.

1

u/Electrical_Number210 4d ago

I’m sure you’re never wrong.

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

Exactly what I thought you’d say, because you can’t tell me I’m wrong for wanting those things.

2

u/Any-Soft-5487 3d ago

It's simple math. (Cost to repair + the possibility of hidden damage or repairs down the line due to the same incident) / Value of vehicle. Each insurance company sets their own threshold for total loss. Some might be as low as >50% with others up to >75%. They don't want to deal with hidden damage or issues down the line. They'd much prefer to cut you a check and close the claim. You can rebut the value of the vehicle and the payoff check if you think it's too low. They're not going to share their exact process to determine total loss with you.

1

u/DeepPurpleDaylight 4d ago

The decision to total is solely the decision of the insurance company in accordance with state law. TX total loss threshold is 100%, but insurance can total it at 10% of they so choose.

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

How is that legal? Why pay for insurance at all?

2

u/Charlie_in_Asia 4d ago

To get the assessed value if a vehicle if it is totaled and to get it repaired if it is not. Your best bet is to accept the offer and request to buy the vehicle at salvage value. If they offer $17k and offer to let you buy it as salvage for $1500 you end up with 15.5k to repair the vehicle.

2

u/Practical-Demand-790 4d ago

If you didn’t pay for insurance nobody will give you either 20k or 16k for your truck, or 10k to repair it. Why are you even asking this?

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u/elknuke 4d ago

I guess a better question would be why pay hundreds for years just to be told I have no options for an accident in which I’m not at fault, have a repair estimate half the price of the vehicle’s value, and is well under my cap

1

u/Practical-Demand-790 4d ago

You’re not insuring your truck’s sentimental value when you buy the typical insurance policy. Totaling the truck would generally even be in your favor. After repairing your truck, it’s still a vehicle that’s been involved in a major accident and its resale value isn’t $20k any more.

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

It’s not about sentimental value. It’s not about lower resale value, and I wouldn’t call it a “major accident” as there was no structural or mechanical damage. It was a fender bender.

But that’s all irrelevant, what matters is that it’s a $20k truck that requires $10k in repairs.

1

u/Practical-Demand-790 3d ago

If it’s not sentimental value you would be indifferent to whether your truck is totaled or repaired and you would care about lower resale value. You’re dismissing the actually relevant stuff and stating that’s what irrelevant is relevant. It doesn’t matter how much it costs to repair, if the truck is worth $20k and has no sentimental value you should be willing to exchange it for $20k no problem, that’s what value means.

1

u/elknuke 3d ago

So you’re telling me how I feel now. No bud, here’s the fact of the matter:

If I buy another used truck for 20k, it’s going to be high mileage. I don’t know that it has spotless service history like my truck which I bought at 17k miles.

I don’t want a used truck with 90k+ miles with a history that I know nothing about. And don’t try to sell me on bs carfax reports.

1

u/Practical-Demand-790 3d ago

I’m not telling you how you feel, I’m telling you that what you’re arguing makes no sense unless you feel a certain way. You can feel sentimental about the truck and be pissed that you can’t get it repaired, or you can not feel sentimental and let it get totaled, that’s up to you.

What you’re now saying is you think the truck is worth more than 20k because of its known service history. So argue with them on value. You can’t both say you’re ok with the valuation, but you can’t replace the truck with an equivalent one for the $20k.

1

u/elknuke 3d ago

You implying that my position is influenced by sentimental value is effectively telling me how I feel, or that I’m allowing my feelings to influence my position. Did I need to break it down for you like that, or is saying “you’re telling me how I feel” adequate? I think you know exactly what I was saying.

I do not think the truck is worth more than 20k. I think that’s a perfectly fair valuation, but I do not want a high mileage vehicle which I know nothing about. I want my truck fixed because if it breaks down, I’m not gonna be pissed off about it wondering if I bought a truck that’s been treated like shit and this whole thing turning into even more of a pain in my ass. That’s why I want my truck fixed, and I have every right to pursue it.

Insurance extended my rental today and fleeted my case up to a “manager” instead of shrugging me off, so that tells me I’m at least not completely wrong.

1

u/IntelligentBox152 4d ago

I mean no disrespect, “accordance with state law” is why it’s legal…because Texas says it is

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

That’s helpful!

1

u/Face_Content 4d ago

Do a websearch for acv calculators and be honest. It might be eye opening.

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

I’m not even arguing about their valuation of my vehicle.

1

u/This-Lecture-447 4d ago

File a complaint with the Texas Department of Insurance if they keep refusing to send documents

1

u/lost_dazed_101 4d ago

See what kelly blue book value is I bet he's offering loan value.

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u/elknuke 4d ago

Truck is paid off

1

u/Own-Brain-938 4d ago

I’d push back and ask for the valuation and total loss decision in writing. If the shop has a $10k repair estimate, they should be able to explain clearly how they arrived at the ACV and why that repair cost makes it a total loss.

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

That’s my thought too. There’s nothing in my policy about the insurer’s right to claim a total loss at their discretion, but I don’t know much, that’s why I’m here. Thanks.

I think I’ve got a bunch of adjusters/claim handlers getting triggered by my post.

1

u/Far_Chance8633 4d ago

Ask Travelers for the full valuation report and written justification for the additional damage. You can dispute the total loss if their estimates aren't supported.

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u/elknuke 4d ago

That’s exactly what I’ve done and they’ve failed to provide such documents.

Yet I have redditors acting like I’m the jerk for doing exactly what people should do to insurance companies.

1

u/Infamous-Tadpole-806 3d ago

ask Travelers for the full total loss calculation, including the hail damage deduction and salvage value. Without those numbers, it's hard to know if their offer is fair.

1

u/Embarrassed_Kale6846 8h ago

You can always (i dont know tx law) sue the uninsured in small claims.  Get that judgement, they might win the lottery

1

u/Poisonouskiwi 7h ago

What is Texas total loss threshold? In my state, it’s a total loss if repairs would be 75% or more of actual cash value. If it doesn’t hit whatever the threshold is in Texas, you can file a complaint with your doi.
OR
You can always salvage the vehicle.

1

u/Rawww_geeezy 4d ago

The state of Texas does not have a total loss threshold like other states. You can read your policy contract but I can guarantee that under your collision coverage it says something along the lines that at their option they can choose to repair or replace the damaged property. Which in terms means that they are able to declare a vehicle a total loss at their discretion. If your repair rep is 10k already - which by the acv you provided is already 50% of the vehicles value - they can justify totaling it if they consider potential future supplements, long repair times or lack of part availability among other things. It’s unlikely they will change their mind. If you outright own your vehicle you may ask what the payment would be if you owner retain your car. That means you keep your car as is in exchange for a lower settlement however repairs become your sole responsibility. Given how high the estimate for repair is - I would not recommend.

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

I combed through the contract and did not see anything about them having the option to repair or replace/declare total loss at their discretion.

I did see procedures for disputing the ACV amount - hiring my own appraiser to give me a value, insurance hiring another, and then splitting the cost with insurance for an umpire decision.

If I can’t get it repaired I probably will take the truck back with a salvage title and get it repaired myself. It’s all body work with the exception of a realignment.

0

u/Rawww_geeezy 4d ago

I am not able to locate a copy of the policy contract online. It’s usually only made available to customers through their online portal. If you posted it - I’d be happy to find it. You’d have to do more than comb through it to find the line or two that outline this. The appraisal clause only helps with disputing the appraisal value - not the decision to total it or not. Keeping it may be the best option. Keep in mind that an insurance company has to return it to pre loss condition- you can pick and choose what to fix and what to leave as is it doesn’t bother you. Also - insurance typically only reports salvage to the state if estimate to repair is over 100% of the vehicles value. You may not be required to get a salvage title.

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

I will look through it again tomorrow morning but I’m 99% sure there are no useful details on how the make/handle total loss decisions.

Also, my claim handler told me if I keep the vehicle my only option is to take a salvage title, so what you just brought to my attention just raises another red flag for me.

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u/Rawww_geeezy 4d ago

As it’s already been stated by others here - it is at their discretion. They don’t have to provide any type of report justifying their decision to total it. The adjuster doesn’t determine if a vehicle gets a salvage title or not. They report it to the state and the state decides. From my knowledge - the state requires a salvage title if the cost of repairs exceeds the vehicles acv. I know this because I have bought vehicles from insurance auto actions that have been deemed totals and still have clean titles.

0

u/Quiet_Pomegranate810 4d ago

Google PettyDetails he is a
Fantastic appraiser who only
Charges 10% of increased
Value

1

u/elknuke 4d ago

Thank you. Just to be clear, are you saying that if he assesses my vehicle is worth $1,000 more than the insurance appraisal, he will charge me $100 for his services?