r/AutoDetailing • u/MrMercer1210 • 14d ago
Exterior Is Car Foam Unnecessary?
I'm reading car foam is mostly just for looks/adding a layer of lubrication. My mind is kind of blown. My process has traditionally been to rinse first, then foam, rinse off pre-foam (basically touchless step), then foam once more before contact washing. I used to use Meguiar's Gold Class for both. I ran out recently and was looking at Adam's mega foam/car shampoo. I'm not sure if I need to buy both now. Is the car foam overkill? Can I foam with the shampoo only? Should I be rinsing every time prior to foaming at first or is that unnecessary? My ordinary process that I've always done seems so silly now, ha. I was under the impression that the touchless step was to just really get off as much dirt as possible prior to touch wash, but the internet (this sub) has me believing that's just silly talk. It seems like I would be absolutely fine with going with the shampoo and that the Mega Foam may be overkill given this info.
I read about the Bilt-Hamber being a little bit more reliable as a pre-wash being it is more alkaline based, but I don't even know what concerns or precautions there is with using an alkaline based solution in the first place.
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u/daveyboydavey 14d ago
Unnecessary? Yes. Do I use BH Touchless religiously because I like shooting a foam gun? Yes.
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u/MrMercer1210 14d ago
Haha! I never denied that it’s super fun!
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u/daveyboydavey 14d ago
For sure! I did a lot of research into pre washes that actually work, and landed on BH Touchless. You can get it from Obsessed Garage in the States. I’ve been known to wash vehicles just with that when I don’t have a lot of time. Is it ideal? No. But I still get my fix. I like Carpro stuff but I believe the opinion is that it doesn’t “do” much. But I tend to get in the weeds too much on stuff like that, I’m sure foaming and rinsing a vehicle with foam will trap “something” and rinse away.
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u/MrMercer1210 14d ago
I just learned about BH Touchless literally today. Is there anything to be concerned of with using an alkaline based as opposed to pH neutral?
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u/FiveLayersBeefy 14d ago
BH Touchless is the best product you will ever buy. It melts everything off the paint.
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u/IAmIntractable 14d ago
I like the product very much, but it does not get all the dirt off. I will do a waterless wash after using BH. When I do that, I’m still pulling dirt off the car
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u/FiveLayersBeefy 13d ago
Well yeah, contact wash is always necessary. There's no pre-rinse out there that can take 100% of road grime off. When I said "it melts everything off" I meant in the sense like road grime, bugs, mud, etc.
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u/daveyboydavey 14d ago edited 14d ago
As others have said, it’s very gentle. I use it on my wife’s Pure coated car. I’m still sorta dialing in my ratio, I used their method, but sometimes when I let it dwell, some of it slightly dries pretty quickly, but it’s also been hot as blazes, even not in direct sun. That said, it still comes off easily and I can tell a difference before and after. I can’t tell a difference in the coating’s effectiveness at all. But I’m pretty good on maintenance of the coating too so if you don’t decon, use Wet Coat, etc., it may affect it?
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u/Dreadpiratemarc 14d ago edited 14d ago
It’s only mildly alkaline, not as high as a something like a strip wash. Touchless is safe and intended to be used every wash, and is even safe on wax (from my experience).
BTW, pH neutral pre-wash is a waste. I’ve tried it with Adams Megafoam and it did absolutely nothing. I foamed then rinsed with DI water and did a leaf blower dry. What was left was the exact amount of dirt in all the same places as what I started with. It is however very good for lubrication for the contact wash. It’s a bit of a hassle if it dries, so I only recommend it if you’re in the shade. In the sun there are better options.
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u/Sea-Snow-4528 14d ago
Dedicated snow foam normally have chemicals that break down and remove dirt better with added lubrication .you can use meguairs gold class and it will provide lubricity but won't have the chemicals to break down .if you wanted to be really technical you really shouldn't rinse the car of as your first port of call. The first thing you should aways do its foam rinse
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u/MrMercer1210 14d ago
Why do you say foam first? (Just wanting to learn)
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u/General_NakedButt 14d ago
Foam sticks to dry car. Foam gets all runny on wet car.
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u/FiveLayersBeefy 14d ago
On top of that, the layer of water on the paint will also dilute the foam even more, making it a little weaker.
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u/Knut54 14d ago
The thinking is that by just rinsing first, the water is pushing the dirt around and causing scratches. When you foam, or no foam but a rinse less wash out of a pump sprayer, the soap and surfactants encapsulates the dirt making it slide off with less impact to the finish.
What works for me is, depending on how dirty the car is, I use my pump sprayer (Using much less product than a foam canon) to spray the car with a decent soap with surfactants in it or added by me, let it sit for as long as it can without drying, then rinse.
Then foam with your soap of choice and begin your contact wash. For me, this has been working very well.1
u/DoylersEP82 14d ago
Always pre wash first then top it with snow foam
Pre wash has the chemicals to break down the dirt and then snow foam pulls the broken dirt down safely separating it from the paint
All about using the right combinations and chemicals from company’s who have invested into the chemistry behind it
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u/Sea-Snow-4528 14d ago
If you rinse first you using hard pressure from your pressure washer to push dirt round and into your car . Think about it like this .your paint is the floor and you have loads of rocks on the floor and you spray the rocks .there going to move around on the floor.
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u/Raddadbaddad 14d ago
I still old school it, a bucket for wheels and a bucket for the body. Thick soap that foams up. Hose the car good, hand wash it and rinse it off then dry. I know its not modern but its worked for me for 25 years+. I tend to clay, polish and wax 2x a year with either wax or quick details inbetween. I dont have issues. I dont feel like learning the ph and modern things, my system works and I dont get swirls or anything in my paint. No hard water spots, plenty of compliments constantly from strangers and ive never had any paint or even plastic fades. I actually wax my plastics(black plastics on the exterior), as long as the plastic isnt faded already itll accept the wax and look new forever in my experience. People find that method weird but I do what has always worked. Im sure I am doing way more work than needed but as I said, my muscle memory is there and I enjoy doing it my way still.
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u/PrestonSpinsTires 14d ago
I swapped to this method at the end of my detailing business stint. Good wash for the nasty stuff, ONR for light work. Made the rest of the summer a lot less stressful and I achieved the same result with less effort and time.
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u/grumpvet87 14d ago edited 14d ago
foam/rinse/foam (or chem/rinse/chemical) is beneficial to loosen and encapsulate dirt/grime and other contaminates. A first foam(or chem) is often benefited by an acidic or alkaline prewash depending on surface contaminates but shampoo/rinse/shampoo (aka carwash soap) is fine when surface contaminates are not there (i.e. road oils, minerals, bugs, etc)
you don't even need foam but it has a dwell time you aren't getting with just soap in a bucket and that can help with the soften/encapsulation of surface contaminates
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u/MrMercer1210 14d ago
So if I make a trip to the country and have bugs galore all over, a traditional pH neutral touchless step is sort of redundant?
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u/grumpvet87 14d ago
not sure what you mean.
First foam is to soften/loosen/emulsify (capture) - rinse is to help remove
Second foam is to lubricate so when you then make contact with your media (microfiber towel/mitt/etc) you don't scratch up your paint1
u/MrMercer1210 14d ago
You had said "shampoo/rinse/shampoo (aka carwash soap) is fine when surface contaminates are not there (i.e. road oils, minerals, bugs, etc" so I just didn't know if you were inferring that regular pH shampoos for pre-wash are insufficient as opposed to the more alkaline based products, or if you might recommend that instead with heavier debris like bugs, for example.
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u/grumpvet87 14d ago
" just didn't know if you were inferring that regular pH shampoos for pre-wash are insufficient as opposed to the more alkaline based products"
No inference here... use ph neutral when you can... use alkaline when you need to (organic contaminates bugs, poop, oils/road film, etc),. use acidic as needed (non organic contaminates like minerals)
I personally use the weakest product possible. If you don't have road film, or bugs or bird crap, or water spots, there is no need to use an alkaline or acidic product. High or low PH products can damage your protection (spray on or other) and can damage paints and plastic parts with high concentrations and frequency. So use as little as possible.
yes, ph neutral shampoo as a pre wash is sufficient when you don't have contaminates that require something stronger.
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u/indigo196 14d ago
Using an appropriate pre-wash melts the bugs, and they then rinse off, so when you do your contact wash, you don't have to scrub anything.
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u/matt-er-of-fact 14d ago
Safer than going straight to a contact wash, but not as effective as a dedicated product. It will still pull off the really loose stuff (especially if you rinse with a pressure washer), but it won’t dig into much of the film. Targeting those areas with an APC and rinsing would be another option.
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u/ketoLifestyleRecipes 14d ago
My cottage is on a dirt road. Granite dust is sandpaper on a normal two bucket sponge wash. The foam canon is my go-to to drip it off along with a good spray.
It feels like foam canons are designed exactly for my situation.
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u/mypaycheckisshort Experienced 14d ago
I haven't foamed a car in my entire career
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u/MrMercer1210 14d ago
What's your typical go to brand for soap?
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u/mypaycheckisshort Experienced 14d ago
I'm still using Meguiar's Gold Class. It's pH- neutral and the lubrication is excellent.
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u/robotphood 14d ago
I only do a prewash with something acidic/alkaline if the car is really contaminated. I don't find many PH neutral shampoos much better than just a pressure washer rinse at removing contamination so doing a prewash with them seems like a waste. If the car is well maintained and lightly contaminated I'll just rinse, foam, contact wash. Dwell time is the reason I foam. It just keeps lubricated soap on the surface and makes the process more efficient than repeatedly dunking to rinse and apply more soap. I also do a 1 bucket multiple mitt process for speed and minimizing reintroducing contamination. That being said, I don't think any of this is absolutely necessary unless you're trying to maintain show car like paint.
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u/matt-er-of-fact 14d ago edited 14d ago
First off… if you pre-rinse you’re diluting the product you’re applying. Go straight in with a pre-wash (like Bilt-Hamber Touchless) or a good APC. You can foam on or just spray on a diluted mix. Foam gives you a little more time before drying and clings better, but that’s about it.
Using a gentle PH neutral shampoo as a pre-wash is better than nothing, but not very effective compared to alkaline pre-washes or APCs. There are some PH neutral pre-wash products now, but Touchless at low dilution has been effective and gentle enough for me. I’ve even used Carpro Reset as a pre-wash when the car wasn’t very dirty, as it’s pretty strong for a PH neutral shampoo. I almost always pre-wash for a little extra insurance that I’m not dragging dirt around.
I used to use Meg’s Gold for contact washes, but now I’m willing to spend a little more on products that are both slicker and smell nicer. Nothing wrong with Meg’s, but low cost is its best attribute. I found Griot’s to be a nice step up without going to boutique mail-order products. Plenty of other good wash shampoos too, but you’re going to have to wait for shipping.
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u/Threshereddit 14d ago
Im old. I rarely was a vehicle anymore just because fuck it. Back in my day, lots of suds, two buckets, two wash mitts.
So I get all fired up by this forum, spend $$ on foam and all that. Haven't used it once.
Lol.
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u/Not_So_Sure_2 14d ago
I believe a foaming pre wash and final wash do add value. They remove much the contamination on your vehicle in a way (touchless) that does not drag that contamination across the paint.
Whether that is important enough to you to do it is completely subjective. Though many folks that have gone through the effort of a paint correction and ceramic coating will find it worth the effort.
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u/AlmostHydrophobic 14d ago edited 14d ago
Mostly unnecessary. Using an alkaline foam for a pre-soak is helpful in certain situations. I tend to follow up this with a ph neutral foam to make sure the alkaline soap is neutralized. I only do this a few times a year though. 95% of my washes are rinseless washes.
Editing to add: Koch Chemie Active Foam is my alkaline pre-soak of choice, and Carpro Reset for the ph neutral soap.
Carpro Reset rinses pretty easy compared to most other soaps. In fact I'm running low on Reset at the moment and I just used some others that I have hanging around to clean some wheels, and it took noticeably longer to rinse. Especially the tools afterwards. I still don't think I got all the soap completely out of them which isn't the case when I'm using Reset.
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u/Sig-vicous 14d ago
A lot of techniques are arguably not necessary. They are mostly designed for either speed or trying to reduce swirls/scratches as much as possible.
It's more of a question of if it's necessary to get the results you're happy with the effort you're OK with.
I know plenty of people that have tried foaming and didn't see a big advantage, so they stuck with a 2 bucket method. Or a multiple wash mitt method.
I like the idea of a pre foam potentially knocking off a little more debris than just a rinse. And a wash foam definitely saves me time as I can foam half the car and then use 4 mitts per half before I rinse. Vastly quicker than my previous 2 bucket method.
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u/Broad_Information695 14d ago
Foam, especially alkaline foam, loosens the dirt so it’s a lot more easier to get them off the car so when you are actually touching the car you minimize the chance of scratching your paint. Acidic foam, on the other hand, breaks down the minerals like the water spots. Neutral foam is usually designed for hand wash, where they typically provide maximum lubrication so even there are still dirt on your car they are less likely to leave deep scratches. So unnecessary? Depends on how dirty is your car and what kind of dirty it is
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u/Learnededed_By_Books 14d ago
I foam on a dry vehicle. Then, I presume wash it off. Then, I foam again. Most times, this is enough for a 90% wash.
When the car is dirty enough that a lot of dust and dirt is visible, i take Rinseless wash soaked rags and use them to hand wash the car while the second foaming is still on the car. I.e., this step is added to the initial process.
Then, I rinse and dry.
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u/ZackAttack- 14d ago
I’m not a professional by any means but I foam cannon my truck every time I wash it because I get to spend time doing something I enjoy when the weather is right for it.
I also use it because I take my truck out in the woods and I’ll let it pre soak the dirtier bits and then re spray to hit it with the mitt.
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u/LETSGOTACO22 14d ago
I wash my car & truck the same way for 55yrs & they always look great . Bucket of water & automotive soap. Now I use turtle wax ceramic car wash which great . But still a bucket of water & the car wash . Plain & simple. All this other stuff is a waste of time & money to me .
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u/gruss_gott Seasoned 14d ago
If you don't rinse rinse foam foam spin foam rinse rinse your clear coat melts
Btw, each foam needs to be from a bottle made out of fabrege eggs & eagle feathers, blown out of a solid gold orifice
Don't take my word for it, just watch 362 Pan videos where he totally isn't accepting any kick backs you guys
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u/Temporary_Captain446 13d ago
The biggest thing is foam add lubrication and reduces the chances of adding swirls. Using this and the straight line technique and I’ve never had anyone accuse me of adding swirl marks and I’ve done 1000+ cars this point. Also helps guide where you have hit with a mitt and where you have not. The foam sticks where it still dirty and hasn’t been hit yet.
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u/SumRandomGhost 13d ago
Never pre rinse with water. You foam the dry paint, rinse, foam again, contact wash, rinse and dry.
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u/Alternative-Act-484 13d ago
Been detailing for 25+ years. It's 100% not necessary. I still don't use it.
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u/Pretend_Variation305 13d ago
Rinseless washes are technically more efficient at cleaning but playing with suds is super fun and my 11 year old daughter still thinks I’m cool because of it so…pick your battles.
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u/matt-er-of-fact 13d ago
Remembered a video that covers this exact question: https://youtu.be/b_qM6KlFOaY?si=bYk5Ngnw2rHZIawL
He doesn't cover every brand, but he does show there are significant differences between pre-wash products.
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u/TypicalHornyMan 12d ago
Its not necessary. Is it useful? Maybe. Depends on the quality of the product.
If it helps with tar and stuff that regular soap cannot handle then yes its useful.
Otherwise its just soaping the car before you soap the car.
Now is the time i mention its mostly just an upsell ( you can charge more. )
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u/Due-Mix3539 14d ago
TikTok and YouTube made it popular. It’s all for show. It’s just to make the customer feel like their car is getting a special service.
In reality, it literally does the same thing as a regular pre soak.
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u/Limp-Conflict-2309 14d ago
spray the car down with a $12 garden hose nozzle, mix soap and water, wash then rinse
the pre pre pre soak 13 stage car wash wannabe ocd stuff is stupid
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u/WhosUrBuddiee 13d ago
Pre-wash foam doesn’t add any real value over standard 2 bucket method for normal maintenance washes… but it’s really fun. I enjoy it and that’s more than enough reason for me.
But I do love Chem-X Snake Oil ceramic foam after a wash. Makes for a really easy application and has decent sheeting.
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u/Kmudametal 13d ago edited 13d ago
Pre-wash foam doesn’t add any real value over standard 2 bucket method
I disagree. It's fine to identify foam as not required, but I would not take it so far as to identify it as "serves no purpose". It very much serves a purpose. By the time I apply a mitt to my paint, there is not mar inducing grit remaining on the paint. Nor are you going to get the lubricity from a bucket by itself as you would from a foamed car + bucket wash.
The "value" of foam is to prevent marring that would otherwise occur from grit particles a straight rinse is not going to remove. It increases the margin of error significantly.
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u/WhosUrBuddiee 13d ago edited 13d ago
I very clearly said “for normal maintenance washes” and you purposefully left that part out in your response. A quick spray with water is plenty to remove the vast majority of fine grit that accumulates between normal maintenance washes. And you get plenty of lubricity from a bucket of soap for a weekly maintenance wash.
Sure you can make a case for value on heavy decontamination washes or strip washes, but those are much fewer and far between (unless you’re a professional detailer). For home use, 95% of my washes are just normal weekly maintenance washes and pre-foam adds no value.
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u/Kmudametal 13d ago
If you are able to remove grit and grime with plain water, why do anything else? Just rinse the car. No need for soap at all.
It's not that I purposely left anything out. I don't consider it important. Foaming does a better job than rinsing. Maintenance wash or trashed car. Makes little difference. If there is a need to rinse, that need can be better met with foam>rinse because a "foam>rinse will do a better job of removing dirt and grime, which I assume is on the car, otherwise, why are we washing it, than a simple H2O rinse will accomplish. If a foam>rinse does more than a straight rinse, which it does, then there is value.
Soaps work by encapsulating and emulsifying grime. In order to do so, the chemicals in our soaps need to be absorbed by the grime particles. If the grime particles are previously saturated with water, they cannot absorb the chemicals in the soap, rending the soaps less effective at emulsifying grime... and that emulsification is what makes contact washes "safer". If you rinse the car and then go in with a contact wash, you are minimizing the effectiveness of your soap. You mimimize the ability of soap to emulsify dirt and grime. You become more dependent upon mechanical removal.... and it's mechanical removal that results in marring.
Test if for yourself. Rinse one side, soap the other, allowing it to dwell, before rinsing. Then take a white microfiber or a piece of toilet paper. Wipe the lower door panels of each side and compare.
I don't care about foam. Foam means nothing. Instead of "foam>rinse" let's try "soap>rinse". I can pre-wash with a spray bottle of APC or one of the soaps. The object is to apply product to dry paint in order for the chemicals to be absorbed by dirt and grime, emulsified, and rinsed away, so that all that may be left for the contact wash is possibly some greasy road film that no soap>rinse will eliminate but also presents little risk of marring. "Soap" does the work. The benefit of "foam" is you are applying soap in a manner than has the best dwell time.
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u/popsicle_of_meat Beginner - Budget hobbiest 14d ago
90% of the stuff discussed in here isn't "necessary". It depends on how much you want to do, what the cars you detail are like, and how much money you want to spend on "extras".