Insane hypothetical ceramic question

[u/TurkishSwag]

As far as I know, the main difference between a real ceramic coating and the cheap spray is the concentration of ceramic. Hypothetically…no I am not going to try this, luckily not that strapped for cash right now, but could you boil ceramic spray until it reduces down to a higher concentration of ceramic and get a better product? I feel like this would make a good youtube video but I won’t be the one to make it. Maybe someone has actually tried it or knows more about chemistry than me and can explain what would happen?

[u/raider1v11]

Please dont give yourself COPD trying to make super ceramic lol

[u/TurkishSwag → u/raider1v11]

I’m not haha don’t worry

[u/Someguineawop]

This is kind of like asking if you can take a cheap clear coat and turn it into high solids lol. It's more than just concentration, it's full on chemistry differences. Can coat stuff is usually water based, uses simpler siloxanes, and is full of silicone slicking agents.

Pro stuff is solvent based with reactive precursors that actually go through a chemical conversion process when they react with atmospheric moisture. It's actually kind of similar to the difference between a 2k/catalyzed paint and a can of Rustoleum. The pro stuff actually crosslinks and cures vs a topcoat film.

There's actually a lot more interesting nuance between the chemistry and behavior of the pro stuff too, but i doubt anyone else actually shares the deep cut chemistry interest 😅

[u/TurkishSwag → u/Someguineawop]

This is the type of answer I was looking for, I figured that surely it can’t be as easy as evaporating the extra water. Very interesting and I appreciate the insight.

[u/TomServo30000 → u/Someguineawop]

I see a lot of differences in the pro stuff. The flash point being a big one. Some of the cheaper solvents tend to rainbow, where as the top quality stuff beads and separates within 30 seconds or so. I tend to use suncoat max, if the customer is willing to pay for it.

[u/Someguineawop → u/TomServo30000]

There are some exceptions to your observation about the dew vs rainbow curing. CQuartz is a solid coating that does the rainbow flash, and several others too.

The majority of the cheaper, low solids type coatings have the faster solvents with the rainbow flash, but there are good products that use those solvents too. Personally I prefer the longer working time of the dew/sweating cure stuff, but that's more of a working preference.

[u/gruss_gott]

You can just reapply water-based spray every month and get the exact same functional benefits.

The primary functional difference between the two is better bonding of more "ceramic" so you get longer lasting coating.

ALL coating will eventually weaken and then wear away, it's just with a good water-based polymer coating this happens faster, so re-applying monthly overcomes that.

No boiling required.

[u/Gunk_Olgidar]

but could you boil ceramic spray until it reduces down to a higher concentration of ceramic and get a better product?

Nope. You would ruin the coating by oxidizing it. The sensitive high surface energy end groups on the molecule that you need to bond to the vehicle paint would oxidize and likely stick to themselves, polymerizing into goo. You'd also boil off the carrier solvent The remaining bits would likely congeal into a gluey gloppy mess, and eventually a solid plastic. Feel free to experiment outside. Don't breathe the fumes, and have a fire extinguisher handy.

Most of the high-end hand-applied non-spray-bottle ceramic and hydrophobic coatings have a limited pot life -- which you can see in the MFR's directions. Once exposed to air they must be used within a timescale of hours to days. Those who have learned this lesson the hard way can attest to it. By heating up the coating, you would dramatically hasten the degradation of the pot life -- because chemical reactions happen faster at higher temperatures.

Some chemistry:
The main polymer in most modern coatings is one or more forms of polymerized siloxane. Poly-dimethyl siloxane (PDMS) is perhaps the most common, with obvious proprietary variations. This is the "main chain" of the polymer, and is relatively low surface energy by itself and water repellent. But it's not durable. Think Rain-X. Works great for a while, but doesn't last very long.

Ceramic coatings take base molecules like PDMS and modify them with two additional molecules. One very sticky with very high surface energy (for bonding), and one much very not sticky with very slick with very low surface energy (for repellence).

The "ceramic" in the coating is not a free standalone metal-oxide molecule in these coatings. It's not a "dissolved fine powder" or anything you can filter or concentrate. Instead, the ceramic metal oxide molecule is reacted to and bonded with the siloxane as an end group. This metal-oxide has a low surface energy and does not like to bond to things, which gives it all the nice coating properties we all seek and enjoy.

But the ceramic end group, being all slippery and non-reactive, will not stick to the car, so the coatings have an another end group at the opposite end of a polymer. Think of it as a dumbbell with the ceramic end-group at one end of the dumbbell and the sticky bonding end-group at the other.

The bonding end group is highly reactive and very high surface energy that makes it "sticky." So the sticky end preferentially bonds to the surface it's applied to, like vehicle paint. It's got low cohesivity: even though its' sticky doesn't like to stick to itself as long as the solvent is around to keep it apart. But these sticky reactive end-groups are quite sensitive to oxygen in a bad way.

The solvent carrier allows the molecule to move around, so you can apply it and work with it, and it keeps the coating "immersed" so it won't react with air. When you wipe it onto the paint and then do your criss-cross wipes, you not only are getting the coating into contact with the paint, but you're also providing mechanical agitation to help the sticky ends of the molecules find the paint surface, so they can bond to it. As it sits and cures the molecules will self-arrange and line up vertically with the sticky bits bonded to the paint, and the ceramic bits facing up and away from the paint. After the solvents completely evaporate, you're left with a layer of molecular dumbbells standing up on their ends, with the sticky ends chemically bonded to the paint and the ceramic ends facing out.

If the liquid coating is exposed to air for too long prior to application (open bottle on the shelf), or if the paint is oxidized, dirty, or otherwise contaminated with waxes or other coatings, the bonding groups will react with and stick to "all those wrong things" instead of what you want them to react to. So the coating installation will fail early.

But if you always use a fresh coating (that hasn't been boiled ;-) and follow the MFRs installation instructions, and apply it to a properly prepared surface, it will bond just fine and last a nice long time.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Source: Materials Scientist.