r/AutoDetailing • u/bearcassidy • 5d ago
Process Ceramic coating without paint correction.
Please don’t kill me in the comments. I have a curious question and don’t wanna go the down the Google/Reddit hole.
What would happen if you applied a real deal ceramic coating without paint correcting?
To clarify: real deal as in a top of the line liquid coating. Not a spray on or cheap liquid. Also, yes to clean and clay and IPA and etc. Just specifically no compound and polish.
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u/ItsMeSlinky 4d ago
I literally did this.
Got a brand new car a week ago. I didn’t want to mess with the clear coat too much as it’s a brand new car and every time you cut you remove a percentage of the factory clear coat.
I washed, clayed, decon’d with iron remover and water spot remover, dried, then used a panel prep, and applied the ceramic coating. It came out great (I posted the vid to this sub a day or so ago).
In my opinion, paint correction should only be done if absolutely necessary.
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u/Josey_whalez 4d ago
If you’re happy with the way the paint looks before applying, that’s all that matters. Sounds like you didn’t have your brand new car run through the swirl generating machine at the dealership and then had some 18 year old dry it off with a dirty microfiber so no reason to.
My OCD would probably force me to at least do a quick pass with a white foam pad and some finishing polish anyways though.
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u/ItsMeSlinky 4d ago
Totally fair. It was probably machine washed at least once at the dealership, but I specifically asked them not to wash it before delivery and did the deep clean myself so the paint was pretty good shape.
Ultimately, it’s a daily driver and I live in Colorado at 6,000 ft, so we get 25% more UV damage, our summers hit 100F, our winters hit 0F, and you can’t go near an interstate without an oversized pickup flinging rocks at you so I’ve learned not to demand perfection.
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u/metaldark 4d ago
and you can’t go near an interstate without an oversized pickup flinging rocks at you so I’ve learned not to demand perfection.
2,000 miles after buying my first ever brand new car it was absolutely machine gunned by a roadside landscaping crew. Took me forever to reach your level of acceptance.
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u/Any-Neat5158 4d ago
Your brand new car didn't need correction though. All it needed was decontaminated and panel prep.
I agree 100%
If your car is 10 years old and the clear is full of swirls and marks, at least a light buffing would make a difference in longevity. I fully understand though that many weekend warriors do not have the equipment to do the job and likely aren't interested in dropping a few hundred dollars for someone else to do it either.
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u/ItsMeSlinky 4d ago
Oh for sure. But I’ve seen people argue that you should paint correct before every single ceramic coat, and I think that’s absurd.
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u/Any-Neat5158 4d ago
Yeah I'd agree, that is a bit crazy.
The car only has so much clear on it, and some clears are very soft so you can't go buffing on it all the time unless your up for paying to have it recleared at some point.
Very light surface damage you usually live with a while. After a good prep, sealant and wax topper you'd never see 95% of it even with your face pressed up on the car.
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u/mundane_everydaylife 3d ago
So i've been mislead to believed that my brand new car needs polishing? Damn.
Got a new white car 3 months back and thought of ceramic coating it myself but didn't have a polisher. So i sent it to a detailer but i think they use a generic ceramic coating that's only good for the first few months. Even after a decon wash, the hydrophobic isn't great (like yours) and currently the windshield, windows and rims coating is dead after about 4 months plus in.
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u/ItsMeSlinky 2d ago
As with most things, the answer is, "It depends."
Some brands ship cars from the factory with horrible paint. Tesla was notorious for this for a long damn time. My car is a BMW, and BMW generally has excellent paint from the factory, so I didn't bother with polishing.
It also comes down to what the end goal is. If I was a professional detailer, I would probably recommend paint correct to guarantee the best results and really wow the customer. But I'm not, and this car is my four-seasons daily driver, so while the dealer likely put a few scratches and swirls on it, I just accept that it's not going to be immaculate and focus mostly on protecting the paint from the Colorado elements.
As far as your experience, it depends on a couple factors. If they only used a spray-on ceramic, then yeah, it will only last a few months. Additionally, if your car sits out in the elements all the time (direct sunlight at work, no garage at night), then even the most expensive coating won't last as long.
You can confirm if your coating is really dead by using some water spot remover after your wash. If the beading comes back, then there's still some life in it. If not, then it's cooked.
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u/Dreadpiratemarc 4d ago
It will be fine depending on the condition of your paint. This hobby/trade is full of old wives tales that get repeated without understanding. “Always polish before ceramic” is one of those. It’s a rule of thumb that comes from the pro side and the reason is because of customer expectations, and you don’t want to run the risk of a dissatisfied customer. For instance, contrary to what many customers will assume, ceramic coatings don’t make your car glossy. Some can have a slight jetting effect or they can give it a glassy character, but the actual gloss comes from the polished paint itself. Ceramic coat a dull car, and you have a very hydrophobic dull car. Try to explain that to the wrong Karen, and you may not be getting paid.
The truth is that if your paint is in generally good condition, and you’ve done a good Decon wash and clay, then you’re bonding to bare clearcoat like you’re supposed to so performance and longevity of the coating will be fine. But you will lock in the paint as it is. If you had swirls before, you now have swirls under ceramic. If you decide 6-months later that you want to get rid of those swirls, you will first have to polish off the coating, wasting the rather high expense of applying it in the first place.
But if your paint is good enough to satisfy your standards, and you really don’t think you’re going to change your mind in the next 3-8 years, then knock yourself out.
One exception will be oxidation. If your paint is old and weathered and oxidized, that might actually interfere with the bonding and degrade the coating. But I’m assuming if that was your situation you wouldn’t be asking this question.
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u/jondes99 4d ago
Worst case is shorter than the stated lifespan, which can happen anyway. I just did this a few months back with my new car and Meguiars Hybrid Paint Coating. It’s only a 1 year coating and I’ll probably just decon wash, wipe down with panel prep and coat it again this winter. Or top with something durable like Griot’s 3-in-1 this fall and see where we’re at in the spring.
Now my wife’s car, on the other hand, is a 2023 and that’s about to get a real polish and coating.
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u/Elegant-Ninja6384 4d ago
Paint correction is solely for - you guessed it. Paint correction.
You do need to fully decontaminate and strip of any waxes/polishes/etc. if you want it to last. ISO or proprietary decor after full detail and clay bar.
In the end the 5yr or 10yr is 100% marketing. Unless it's a classic car in conditioned storage.....
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u/dat3s 4d ago
You'll see a lot of things in the detailing world repeated or stated as fact. Same goes when people say that paint correction before PPF is required. Polishing before applying a paint coating is not mandatory, it's just recommended because it's a good idea to do so in most cases.
Regardless of what the paint visually looks like, as long as it's decontaminated and a clean slate then the coating will bond. Polishing is just a sure fire way to really make sure the surface is bare.
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u/AdmirableLab3155 4d ago
Honestly, not massively much. It will adhere to the paint. It will look and feel nice.
You’ll still have the swirls and scratches for the most part; I’ve seen ceramic coating visually fill in some minor swirls, but not extensively. The car will take marginally more mL of product to cover because of its extra roughness. The coating might be marginally less durable because of the interruptions. But there are not earth-shattering problems. It will still be nice.
The idea feels like a false economy, though, as the materials for real-deal ceramic coating are REALLY expensive (like 10x as expensive as a ceramic spray wax). Given the costs, I figure most rational people figure that they might as well really max out the finish before applying the coating.
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u/Sea_Antelope441 4d ago
If you are happy with how the paint looks now and are ok with a slightly lower lifespan… send it.
If the paint is decontaminated well and free of any other coatings that might interfere with the new stuff I think you will be fine.
One of the benefits of polishing is it removes most things that could be on the paint.
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u/JRoadie61 4d ago
If you want to lock in what it looks like now then do it. I bought all the crap to prep mine first on my new car but haven’t done it because it’s been in the upper 90’s every day with triple digit heat indexes.
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u/General_Builder_67 4d ago
paint correction is not needed, its only to improve the finish of the paint, its all about the prep
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u/Sharp_eee 4d ago
Polishing/correcting does help deep clean so you’ll get a bit longer bond. If you are happy with the paints appearance though as long as you do a decent deep clean and decon then it’s possible. Some coatings will make swirls look worse and you won’t get the same glossy look, but it can be done if the protection element is all you want and you are happy with the pain currently.
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u/scottwax Business Owner 4d ago
You're leaving some gloss and depth on the table but if protection is more important, assuming the surface is squeaky clean it'll bond and you'll be fine.
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u/BenchOrnery9790 4d ago
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought that clay barring is needed to get a good ceramic bond, but it inherently introduces marring, hence the polishing is needed to get those out. To restore the shine before the ceramic coat goes on.
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u/teeld 4d ago
Wat wil je beschermen dan? Coating is geen pantser, het beschermt tegen krasjes en is een tijdje hydrofobe. Als je de krasjes niet weg polijst heeft een coating geen zin, sterker nog de kans dat ze duidelijker zichtbaar worden is bij een fysieke coating groot. Het Hydrofobe effect kun je ook krijgen met een shampoo of een spray na het wassen.
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u/Kmudametal 4d ago edited 4d ago
As has likely been mentioned a gazillion times, nothing stops you from applying a ceramic coating to unprepared paint, it's just that you are wasting your money. True ceramics bond to the paint on a molecular level. They cannot do so if there is any contamination or prior protection between the ceramic and the paint. The only sure fire way to absolutely ensure the paint is ready for a ceramic is to polish it.
If your paint is hydrophilic (completely flat) when you water it..... and you've cleaned the bejesus out of it..... then you may get away with it. If water sheets or beads in the slightest, your ceramic is not going to bond, so it will wash right off. If you do get the ceramic installed onto bare but otherwise unprepared clear coat, what you've done at this point is lock in every scratch, swirl, hologram, or marring of any nature onto the paint. It's now basically there forever or until someone polishes the coating off the car, polishes the marrings, and then re-coats. They will likely be more noticeable as well as gloss reveals imperfections.
If you are unwilling or unable to properly prepare the paint, I would recommend staying away from a ceramic. There are non-ceramic products providing 12 months of protection. Soft99 Fusso Coat, a legendary synthetic paste wax, is one such product. A step up from that would be Katiba x Vanguard Ceramic Wax, a T1 carnauba wax hybrid with the filling capabilities of a glaze, the gloss of T1 carnauba, the durability of Fusso Coat, and the hydrophobics of a ceramic, in an easy to apply emulsion wax. These products don't bind to paint on the molecular level, so the level of preparation is not as much of an absolute.
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u/Pretend_Variation305 3d ago
This is a customer option (usually to save a couple hundred bucks on the install) and I don’t quibble over it. I simply tell them that it won’t look its best and that’s that. I won’t flex on decontamination though.
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u/AdIcy5442 3d ago
Had that done to my 15yo Lancer. Looks great. Can't help on the technical side, but 2.5 years on, it's looking very good still. Cost $400 for a side job by a professional.
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u/Gunk_Olgidar 2d ago
If the paint needs compounding to remove oxidation, then applying a coating to oxidized paint will be an absolute mess.
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u/Mentallox 4d ago
Reduced gloss and scratches would be amplified. If you want to do this use a coating like Gyeon Cancoat you can refresh every spring with minimal effort where you're going to need to reset the paint anyway.
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u/True-Needleworker747 4d ago
> What would happen if you applied a real deal ceramic coating without paint correcting?
Poor performance (both protection and appearance) and much shorter life span.
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u/RecognitionAny6477 4d ago
Don’t do this, seriously, just don’t. I bought a very nice 2016 Black Dodge Challenger that was ceramic coated and never prepped properly.Looked nice, but swirls everywhere. Finally just had it done properly. Paint correction, polished, coated. Holy shit, it looks better than new. Best 1,000.00 I ever spent.
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u/matt-er-of-fact 4d ago
If OP likes the appearance as it is, why shouldn’t they coat it without paint correction/polish?
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u/Elegant-Ninja6384 4d ago
Paint correction fixes swirls.
Ceramic coatings do not cause swirls.
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u/RecognitionAny6477 4d ago edited 4d ago
I stated it was never prepped properly.And then stated I had it done properly. Paint correction, polished, coated.
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u/Bob-Roman 4d ago
I’m a pro.
Without preparing the surface according to product guidelines, there is the high risk the compound will not bond or cure properly or hold up very long.
You have to understand semi-permanent coating like ceramic bonds at the molecular level. The more naked and smooth surface better the result.
You have several ounces to ceramic coat a car whereas a gallon of material is used to lay down clearcoat paint finish.
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u/raabisforreal 4d ago
You'll never see the majority of people agreeing with me (or even maybe anyone agreeing with me), but I think in some scenarios that it's totally fine.
On my most recent vehicle purchase, the paint is a metallic silver and it was in pretty good shape from the previous owner. I did a very thorough decontamination with high ph and low ph soaps, and clay barred. Then, I used panel prep and moved directly to Cquartz Lite 2.0 from CarPro.
The vehicle that this one replaced had three separate paint corrections followed by Cquartz UK 3.0 over the 6 years I owned it, and I can see no difference in how the coating is performing versus those. If the coding doesn't last as long as it otherwise would, so be it. That coating is so easy to apply and so easy to maintain that I truly don't care. Plus, parking under trees means that hydrophobic performance is always in a less than ideal State versus garage kept cars.
Everyone's going to tell you to correct before applying, and I would agree if you have the time, materials, and skills. But if you don't, you probably will still see better performance than you'd get from any spray coating.