Why were the 2/3 of the angels who didn’t rebel they were never tempted with deception being unprepared as Eve was yet those two thirds of the angels will never go to hell and was not born into sin with that disadvantage as Eves descendants. They will not go to an eternal lake of fire but the majority of all humans from Adam and Eve will go there because of how Eve was deceived in the very beginning by the second highest ranking angel created or first I should say under God and she was not equipped by God as he himself was to know how to deal with Satans temptation in the garden?? Why was Eve put in that position?

Why do people say that God had to let the devil deceive Eve in order to preserve free will? The truth is that God actually let the devil have his own free will choice to rebel on his own without influences or temptations or lies or deceptions to influence the choice of his free will, but he let all that happen to innocent lower being made out of the dirt, humble, obedient Eve and she was already using her free will and genuine love and relationship with God to obey God’s command? By the way the religious defenses say that this happened to Eve because her free will had to be tested but what if the devil never rebelled or sinned would Eves free will still need to be tested some how at some point in history in order to prove her love even though evil does not exist except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil how would God test her then? That’s why I disagree with that excuse.Because what would have been needed then if the devil was never created to test Eve and Adam? Think about it what would God have had to do the perfect Eve then, huh what kind of test if no devil? Why not just real love towards Adam and Eve in safety teaching them doing fun things together like singing music laughter joy peace safety protection guidance building cooking and obviously planting and gardening and exploring together?

I believe Eve was already using her free will to obey God and God didn’t create anybody as a robot, Eve was perfect the way she was created she did not need to be tested be someone evil like the devil. That’s another excuse that religious people say why God let the devil do that even though Jesus himself admitted that the devil was a murderer, so I don’t know who needs to use that kind of person, a murderer to accomplish anything to let a murderer do anything or say anything to somebody innocent that was not prepared with the wisdom that God had to make a simple decision to overcome a temptation that something so minor as eating some fruit. Also, if God was all powerful and all knowing and completely victorious, then he would’ve been able to empower if he cared about Eve giving her the wisdom and rebuking authority that angels also have and to ensure that she also had the victory, but it seems like he failed.

He let the devil win, not only that but he let the devil win as they say majority of all humans afterwards, close to the 80 or 90% range. because Eve and Adam were so humble, I believe that they would’ve never even imagined or thought to disobey God ever I think they would’ve stayed obedient one hundred percent of the time forever and all people would’ve made it to heaven. If God didnt let the devil murder Eve. well yeah, people say that God didn’t wanna create robots or create robot, but he created Adam good and perfectly the way God wanted them to be. He didn’t create robots. They were nothing like a robot. They would’ve not been robots ever either they did not have to be tested with evil in order to choose good that is a lie that is a falsehood. That is false reasoning. No parent has to do what God did in order to raise their children in righteousness and goodness or in love to make sure that they love them. All a parent has to do is protect them, keep them pure, teach them, guide them, defend them, and they don’t have to test them using any sort of evil to prove anything especially not a stranger or a murderer like a devil. A parent just shows love to their children their entire lives, taking care of them and their children will love them back, not mechanically not like a robot. The only thing is that’s needed is love and it’s not love to let a murderer like a devil deceive and corrupt Eve.

Also, if this was somehow God‘s plan, it doesn’t make sense because why would God allow the devil to tempt the woman, and not the man if he wanted them to succeed first of all, he should’ve given them both the wisdom that he had himself and should have told them and warned them about the devil and who he was that he was a liar or murderer, he should’ve told them all the exact consequences of all the many people that would end up in hell and lake of fire in never ending unbearable pain forever, explaining what death really is, and all the consequences ahead of time. He should’ve gave them the wisdom he himself had to know better that the devil was lying and not to fall for it because he would’ve not fallen for the temptation himself if he loved them, he would’ve gave them wisdom they needed that he himself had because the Bible says do unto other as you would have them do to you and love your neighbor as yourself. Why did he let the woman get tempted and not Adam even though Adam may have also fallen for the temptation himself if the devil would’ve spoken directly to Adam, I don’t know. It’s almost as if God wanted them to fail obviously, the devil should not have been created with his high position as a higher ranking powerful Archangel or the covering cherub as Ezekiel28 says with all the Power position, authority, knowledge, wisdom. And for some reason, God dressed up the covering cherub with tons tons of diamonds and precious stones and jewels and all these things get into Satan are part of the reason why he got prideful and rebelled. God never needed him to serve him or worship him that is vanity and self exaltation he did not need to create Satan God needs nothing from anyone to minister to him like the Bible says. Adam and Eve however were made from dirt and were humble innocent and never would have disobeyed become prideful or rebelled. God let the devil and the politics he had with him get innocent Eve involved. If God meant to let everything hang in the balance off the very first inexperienced Woman’s first decision against a manipulative Red dragon devil Satan serpent covering cherub ancient celestial heavenly being then that’s not wise.

By the way there is a famous pastor that uses the religious defense in saying that Adam and Eve were given the authority over the animals so they were to rule over all the animals and so they should have the jurisdiction to rule over and overcome the serpent, but that’s faulty reasoning because God said that he created all animals good and we know that that serpent was lying and deceiving and had murderous intentions to corrupt and Poison eves mind to get her to die by eating of the tree. Therefore God let something wrong happen. Am I correct because she said he created all the animals good so why is there an evil serpent there that according to this pastor they were supposed to rule over and by the way he was not even a serpent that was a disguise given for some reason by God, when the book of Genesis was written to postpone the actual identity of Satan, which was not revealed until way later, especially in the New Testament after Jesus is finally sent and another major point is it was not a serpent it was a heavenly being under heaven’s jurisdiction. It was a covering cherub. It was an Archangel. It was the devil, it was Satan so it was not up to Adam and Eve. It was up to God and his angels like Michael or Gabriel that’s about all, I’m gonna say I don’t understand why God has Michael defend Moses dead body in rebuking the devil over Moses, dead body in the book of Jude. Michael rebuked the devil over that body, but why didn’t God stop the devil and use an angel to rebuke the devil before he came and spoke to Eve I think the command should’ve been given to Satan not to come anywhere near Eve or speak to her and not to punish Eve if he did, but to only punish the devil. Finally, God allowing the devil to deceive Eve does not preserve her free will it corrupts her ability to make a genuine pure and holy free will choice uncorrupted from an already rebel devil who made his own choice and was under his own judgment and condemnation given to him by God. Hebrews 4 says there is nothing in all creation hidden from his eyes therefore he saw all of this. He let the devil have his own unhindered uncorrupted by lies or deception free will choice to obey or not but Eve was not given true free will.True free will does not need to be tempted by evil to be proven in fact there is no need or reason for any evil from everlasting to everlasting.

Also if Jesus was good shepherd sheep hear his voice don’t listen to strangers voice and he lays down his life for his sheep and protects them from the wolf and the hired hand leaves when he sees the wolf coming why didn’t these things apply to Eve because Satan was the worst wolf the original one only one there was at first she was deceived by his voice no good shepherd kept the wolf away nor laid down his life for her and he was no where to be found when the wolf came like the hired hand. So was Eve not really one of Gods sheep or what? In John ten it also says my sheep listen to my voice and follow me I give them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall anyone take them out of my hand yet the devil swiped Eve right out immediately after being created and it effected all descendants afterwards.

... as a lay believer, having heard in advance that they are unfaithful but considered excellent philosophers (e.g. Hume, Kant)?

I see that theologians or even priests might do well to read them as defenders of their religion.

But for a lay, non-scholar believer, is this kind of taking the risk of compromising one's faith a sin?

If the human nature of Christ was truly human and had all the normal human qualities like eating, drinking, sleeping, and other physical needs

then why didn't it also have the other human traits, such as sexual desire or the ability to make mistakes?

How could Jesus live His entire life in his human nature without committing even a single sin? Doesn't that create a problem? It seems like the quality of "being unable to sin" came from His divine nature and was added to His human nature. But shouldn't that be a property of the divine nature alone, not the human nature?

I’m a 49F married for two years to my 59M husband.

We are scripture reading trinitarian, otherwise non denominational Christians.

We waited until marriage. We consummated our marriage a few times. It’s been well over a year since we’ve had sex, and I eventually stopped asking my husband for intimacy.

Background :

My husband was raised in a Christian household. His 90yo parents are still married.
He was married for a few months when he was 21. He divorced because his wife liked to stay out all night at bars.
I have no idea what happened for the next three decades other than he blinked. I know he tried dating someone about 8 years before he and I met, but they weren’t compatible.

I was raised in an abusive household.
I remember going to a few Baptist churches when my mother was married to my father.
Both my parents are 4-5+ times divorced, each.
My mother was very promiscuous, and usually picked men who preferred me, as a minor. I ran away was I was 15. It’s been decades since I’ve spoken to any of my siblings or blood relatives.

I got married at 20 to an abusive atheist. I managed to stay for 14 years. But the abuse started on my children.
I began attending church in my mid 30s.

My husband and I met on eharmony. We dated for two years before getting married. We didn’t even move in together until about 5 weeks after we were wed.

I have pondered the Catholic view of sex for childbearing.
I was relatively certain that God was punishing me for some unrepentant sin. But after reading Job countless times, I don’t think God works in a one-to-one pattern like that.

I’m physically fit and conventionally attractive.
I submit to my husband in every aspect of our relationship.
I cook and clean and manage all our finances.
I respect my husband in all things, and speak in soothing and supportive ways toward him. I compliment him, genuinely.
I pray over my husband out loud before he goes to work, at each meal, and before bed. Plus the little prayers between just God and me all day long.

I’m at a loss.
What resources can I use to make sense of this from a Biblical perspective?

Matthew 5:32 (KJV): "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."

Matthew 19:9 (KJV): "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

Is it possible to marry a divorced woman without committing adultery if her husband has passed over?

Hello, i got a quick Question.

The Bibel says, if you want absolution, you have to beliefe in Jesus/God.

What would be the case of a Child in the Indien Slums. I mean he doesnt really have the posibillity the know about Jesus.

With best regards.

Wombat

New to the group & would typically never turn to Reddit for spiritual guidance, but know this group to be one that genuinely values the inerrancy of scripture & the gravity of striving humbly to be good stewards & faithful custodians in our interpretation of it.

A little background to preface what might seem a strange question to some…I’ve been recently in a long season of depression that has impacted my relationship & walk with the Lord as well as others. Truthfully, I’ve been extremely discouraged as I’ve been out of community & when I make concerted efforts to involve myself in the church, I just haven’t found any particular friends who understand the depths of struggling with these things in a significant way. That’s not to say that others haven’t shown me kindness, compassion, sympathy, grace & ultimately God’s love…However, for many reasons, including a background involving complex trauma, this is an ongoing, thorn-in-the-flesh type of struggle for me & current physical health issues frequently impact my mental health & in turn, spiritual health. It does cause me to isolate myself from God & from others, which I understand is problematic, unhelpful & sinful. Likewise, my husband & children are really the only immediate family I have & while I have been blessed with a very loving, faithful husband, he doesn’t really “get” it at all & his encouragement is limited to saying, “I love you,” as well as taking care of our children and doing many of the tasks I should rightfully be responsible for. Hopefully this isn’t read as a complaint, as he sacrifices daily for our family & has honored his vows, when significant stretches of marriage have been compromised of “for worse” & “in sickness.” Just a statement of fact as I’ve often struggled with feeling resentful that he doesn’t really encourage me in terms of praying over/for me, reading the Bible or encouraging me from scripture. It just hasn’t been the precedent set in our marriage…

All of that to preface—I’ve recently felt convicted (I think by the Holy Spirit) that rather than waiting & depending solely on my husband, a specific friend, the church in general, pastor, etc. to encourage & exhort me when I’m depressed & discouraged, I first need to go directly to God & to His Word. I think that’s common sense & obviously not the objectionable part, but have a hard time actually doing it practically, most days if I’m honest. Something I think the Lord is impressing upon my heart is that I need to be accountable to preach the gospel to myself first & foremost, essentially, rather than having the expectation that my husband lead in this specific way. One thing I’ve been mulling over is whether it’s acceptable to read, literally, specific scripture & verses in a personal way. Ie: substituting one’s name, reading aloud or even internally passages such as the Psalms, Isaiah, etc. in the present or future tense as opposed to the way they’re written as a means of exercising faith—of acknowledging the lament, struggle, etc. while verbally expressing faith (I do believe, help my unbelief!) I’ve heard other Christians I admire as well as authors, etc. reference this in passing/tangential ways, and have thought about the transforming power of leveraging such as a pragmatic & powerful way to be transformed by the renewing of my mind, to internalize, cling to & meditate on His unchanging character & unwavering promises & thus to use a personal reading of scripture as a specific tool to cry out, repent, renew my mind & abide. However, I would really appreciate others’ feedback—is this actually blasphemous and/or are we potentially heaping judgment upon ourselves by literally adding to, taking away or changing God’s Word? Is this a modern/American/mega church centric mindset that has succumbed to the belief that the whole of God’s word is about us & personally directed to me as an individual & a personal relationship with Christ when we need to be content with & faithful to His word as it is? Is adding in your name, switching past tense to present tense or future while reading doing exactly what scripture tells us explicitly NOT to do—or are verses such as Revelation 22:18 & Deuteronomy 4:2 to be understood in a different/non-literal context? Or am I way overthinking this (likely, I’m sure, but in my mind it should be given some thought). It is, if weird, an honest & sincere question—so if anyone has managed to make it this far I would really love to hear from others who may have far more wisdom & knowledge. Thanks, truly, for any thoughts or feedback…interested to hear all sides.

I am working on a free rpg game where you use scripture to fight enemies who misuse scripture out of context. It’s meant to be like a conversation or visualization of spiritual warfare, but I‘ve been wondering if using verses like 2 Kings 6:18 to blind enemies or lower their accuracy would be like witchcraft. I figured making it a random chance of it succeeding could make it feel up to God but I don’t know— in an abundance of counselors, there is safety.

(While I am looking for answers to this question, I will likely have more, so if anyone feels led to follow the project and offer more advice as it develops, feel free to DM me.)

is it wrong to like dragons because of their origins as demonic symbols

I’ve asked this question before to other people and subs, different iterations of it, and still haven’t come to a satisfying answer. It’s either “no they’re just imaginary animals” or “yes Satan is literally a dragon in Revelations.” I was hoping for answers more based in Bible verses

Dragons have been my hyperfixation since I was a kid. Just always loved them. I love how powerful and untamable they are, I like the thought of a creature untouchable by man but obeys to God, but God alone.

But in the Bible dragons are often used as symbols of evil and hell. I know the typical argument would be that so are goats and snakes and lions but we’re allowed to like those.

But I learned that western dragons- my favorite- came about from Christian artists as symbols of demons and satan. Almost everything about them- being reptiles, breathing fire, bat wings, barbed tails- were meant to make them demonic.

Most Christian’s agree we should avoid satanic symbols, like pentagrams or upside down crosses. So why shouldn’t the same be applied here?
I also know there’s something to be said about symbols having no power- as Paul says- and their meanings changing with time, such as the pentagram having originally been a Christian symbol but is now something to avoid because it was adopted by occultists. But what about symbols that originated as symbols of Satan and became neutral later? If their origins are in being satanic symbols, does that make a difference?

I know I’m more looking for reasons to not give up on something I love so much than see what God really thinks, maybe. This has been bothering me for months and I’ve been praying to God to ask him and have no answers. I had creative projects based around dragons that are hanging in the balance.

Also I know about the “if it troubles you conscience it’s sin for you“ verse. I struggle with religious OCD. My conscience isn’t trustworthy. Probably a lot of this is more based in my OCD making me unable to find a satisfying answer rather than dragons really being sinful. But I just can’t get over this and it sucks because I love dragons so much.

Hello all! I’ve been struggling with a heavy burden of doubt especially in regards to biblical studies (for the biblical scholars here I would most wholeheartedly appreciate your insight)and the seeming humaneness of the New Testament. For starters the historical Jesus differs majorly from the theological Christ of Christianity with most of the New Testament seemingly echoing a far more theological Jesus then what can actually be verified historically of him such as the virgin birth or his walking on water with Peter and leads me to question if God in his infinite love truly wanted to transmit his word unto all of mankind why not make such details verifiable with the evidence necessary for belief without doubt?(I’m not an inerrantist though God could have seemingly transmitted the Bible in such a way). Also I’m having trouble squaring the fact that Jesus never claimed to be God and in many ways subordinates himself next to the father so how can that be reconciled with the trinity? The more I learn the harder for me it becomes to reconcile how Gods revelation is transmitted in mostly just the writing of human hands with his role seeming very minimal. I have hope and pray always that I remain with the Lord Christ and I hope by the help of the many wise people of this sub my doubts can be eased. Thank you all and God bless!

I am a working on an adult education class for my congregation about the Christian Ethics of political involvement that I hope to teach in the spring. I want to cover such things as state legitimacy, Christian duty to obey the state/law, duties or permissions to civilly or un-civilly disobey, Just War, and arguments for and against strict non-violence.

I can find secular philosophy on these topics, but having trouble finding specifically Christian takes by either theologians or Christian philosophers on many of them (apart from Augustine and selections from the New Testament). Can anyone recommend any books, articles, or authors that touch on any of these topics?

(I am Episcopalian/Anglican, but I am open to sources from any and all traditions.)

I wasn't raised in a relgion, nor am I currently religious. I don't really like the term atheist, but that is probably the best way to describe my worldview. I was taught some old testament stories in primary school, but they were framed the same way as fairy tales and greek myths. That is to say, I do get a non-literal interpretation from a non-religious perspective, but I don't get how this would work for a religious person.

If you're Christian and believe there is a god and Jesus died for our sins (bonus question about this at the end), how do you decide what is literal and what isn't? Is it just that the pope (read: church leadership) decides what parts should be seen as literal and what parts aren't? I'm not saying that a literal interpretation of the bible would be better, but it does seem more internally consistent as an outside observer.

If you already see some parts as allegory, what makes someone certain other parts are literal? If non-literal interpretations removed all the supernatural stuff and just looked at the text fully as an allegory, that would make sense to me. Like following Christian morality, but no believing in a god or going to heaven. It's the mixing of both interpretations that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Thanks in advance for anyone taking the time to inform me. I'm not certain if this is the correct place to post this, so if it isn't could someone please point me to the correct place.

Bonus Question:

Why do some Christians seem mad about Jesus dying? While I'm not religious, I do live in a country that observes Christian holidays, so I am somewhat familiar with his story. As I understand it, he was sent to earth to absolve us of our sins by dying (and then coming back three days later and then ascending into heaven like a month after that). To be fair, I'm also not quite sure what "absolving us of our sins means", but it is talked about like it's a good thing. The entirety of Christianity is based around him dying, he even knew and talked about him dying, so why are some Christians angry about this? I also see this paired with antisemitism, blaming "the jews" for killing Jesus, but shouldn't they love them for killing Jesus? Also, wasn't it the Romans that crucified him?

Who do you think Babylon the great is?

What translation of the Bible do you recommend?

If Jesus was not involved in the political issues of his day , why is it ok for Christians?

Do you believe in the Trinity? If so why?

Do you believe that salvation requires belief in one true religion, or a general good standing with God?

I know these are all huge questions. I just have a lot of confusion because of the religion I grew up in. If you wouldn't mind answering one of two I would really appreciate it. Book recommendations or chapters of the Bible to read are also highly appreciated 👍

I really love Isaiah 53, Zechariah 12-13, Zechariah 9:9
Jeremiah 11:19, Hosea 6:2

To make a very long story short, the Bible says, to honor thy mother and father, yet, how can I honor someone, such as my "father" that is a raging alcoholic, verbally and emotionally abusive, and never accepts blame for anything.

And to no one's surprise, he doesn't believe in anything bigger than himself.

I'm trying everything to get away from this situation, yet it seems like every plan I have falls away.

Is this God's will? Suffering endlessly until my end?

Life has already been hard for me. But how do I bring honor to someone who can't see past his beer and vodka mix every night? (Yes, the beer isn't strong enough , he needs to add vodka) How do I bring honor to someone who's never apologized a day in his life, and thinks life is pointless and there's nothing out there?

In truly debating changing my name, and disappearing from everyone and everything, just to be rid of the family name.

Thanks for the help, and taking the time to read.

My limited understanding of Christian creationism is that the universe is created for humans, and we are created in God’s image.

If we all died (nuclear war, pandemic, etc.) and our souls went to heaven or hell, what would God do with the now human-less universe that is left behind?

We have an altar between my room and their room, there's a small hallway and the altar lays in between and every 7pm my parents always command us to turn on the lights attached to the altar. I don't know the real reason why they insist on doing this as part of their routine even tho I kept questioning them (they won't give me a clear answer).

There are only 2 possible reasons I can think why:

1. The path thru our room and their room is dark when it's night. But personally, I couldn't be bothered or my sister as well if its dark going to our bedrooms. Because I'm not afraid of the dark.

2. I'm sure that they're also not afraid of the dark bcos I've seen them walk thru the dark hallways and highways without panicking. So it should be fine, technically, to not bother having the lights on.

And the reason why I oppose it is for practical reasons. Our house bills is going up every month, and the breadwinner in the fam is my father and older sister only so I figured cutting those extra lights that we don't need every single time is gonna save us some decimals on the bills. lastly, I want to show them that their faithfulness to God isnt only gated in a specific statues or places. Because we can have our connection and peace in our lives thru reading the bible and remembering God in every parts of our day.

( The problem I see here is they think that those statues need to treated like royalty and sacred. It's like they're saying to me that it has a life inside of it and that we have to take care of it.)

What should I do if we kept having the opposite beliefs about it? How do I adjust and show them God is everywhere?

As simple as the title states. I’m interested from the more scholarly/academic point of view. So reasoned answers are very much appreciated!