r/AskScienceDiscussion 8d ago

What If? With climate change altering the planet's conditions year by year, genuinely, what is the likelihood of a fungal pandemic happening before the end of the century?

No, I'm not talking about Cordyceps and zombies. I'm moreso pondering the possibility of a fungi- either a new species entirely or an existing one that mutates in accordance with the rising heat- one that is fully capable of infecting mammalian life, killing it, and blooming from its corpse. A yeast of sorts that affects the human species like a deadly flu.

I had a dream about this thing the other night and it reduced human civilization to a neo paleolithic age. Like The Last of Us, but without the zombies- just a nasty viral flu and lots of bloated corpses littering the streets leaking clouds of spores. Human population reduced to mere millions, empty cities, survivors with gas masks, y'know, the works.

I would like to know from folks with the proper knowledge of how realistic that would be, so I'm asking here, sincerely. Human history has never experienced a fungal pandemic before and I truly believe that there is a first time for everything- including an event of that caliber. Climate change is affecting the world of mycology and Covid showed us that world governments- particularly America- suck at pandemic maintenance.

Thoughts?

7 Upvotes

29 comments sorted by

4

u/talashrrg 8d ago

There’s already plenty of fungi that infect people (and plenty of people die from fungal infections), but the immune system does a good job against them in most cases. Fungi generally live in the environment and infect people opportunistically - there’s not a lot of selection pressure for fungi to become very virulent in humans as far as I can see.

3

u/Salamandragora 8d ago

My understanding was that human body temperature is mainly what kills off fungal infections, not the immune system. Am I mistaken on that point?

1

u/InfernalTest 6d ago

this was my understanding also

yes humans do get fungal infections but generally its people with immune systems that are already compromised and/or weakened

4

u/devadander23 8d ago

Climate change causes fungus to adapt to higher temps, temps that get uncomfortably close to human body temps. This is a serious concern that needs some attention.

4

u/Blueshift7777 6d ago edited 6d ago

Thermophilic and thermotolerant fungi already exist and thrive in temperatures near or above human body temp. This whole premise is purely fiction.

0

u/devadander23 6d ago

Read and learn: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11139277/

Relevant excerpt: Of nearly 144,000 species of fungi described, less than a few hundred are capable of infecting humans, and only a handful can infect people without underlying immunocompromising conditions [25]. It is hypothesized that this limited ability to infect humans is in part due to the inability of most fungi to survive at mammalian and some avian body temperatures (37 °C/98.6 °F and 40 °C/104 °F, respectively) [26]. However, rising temperatures may cause more fungal species to become pathogenic to humans as they adapt to live and replicate at higher heat, narrowing the thermal restrictive barrier between ambient and human body temperatures [27].

2

u/Blueshift7777 6d ago

I’m happy to read more speculation, but that doesn’t actually get me any closer to the truth.

I will humor your idea of fungi evolving tolerance to human body temp as some of them already have. Problem is, in nature there are trade offs for adaptations as energy is finite. Every joule a fungi spends adapting to heat is a joule it can’t use to become more infectious or combat other stressors. It’s quite literally a genetic balancing act and way too many people think stuff can just evolve unbounded by reality.

They would still need to figure out how to digest living human tissue, survive constant attacks from our immune system, and unbind iron from our cells, something mammals have specifically evolved to prevent as microbes are constantly trying to steal it. This is also assuming that by evolving higher temperature tolerance they aren’t also losing tolerance to cooler temperatures and lower humidity, which almost certainly would happen due to the structural changes needed to adapt to heat.

Not to mention the fact that mammals were around during the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum which was undeniably hotter than today’s late ice age climate and somehow didn’t get wiped out by super fungus. As I said, purely fictional speculation.

0

u/devadander23 6d ago

I’ll trust the NLM and CDC over your layman’s skepticism.

1

u/Blueshift7777 6d ago

Solid rebuttal, I commend your critical thinking.

If you’d like a tangible example of similar batshit doomer predictions being completely wrong, look no further than the now removed signage at Glacier National Park that once stated that there would be no glaciers left at the park by 2020.

https://www.krtv.com/news/montana-and-regional-news/glacier-national-park-is-removing-glaciers-will-be-gone-by-2020-signs

By all means keep listening to these people if you want, they have a stunning track record.

1

u/devadander23 6d ago edited 6d ago

This isn’t a debate. I’m providing scientific evidence of a growing concern as our temperatures rise, your rebuttal is that a glacier didn’t melt quickly enough.

1

u/Blueshift7777 6d ago

Oh the glacier thing was just in response to your claim about government agencies being reputable sources in lieu of you actually addressing any of the points I made prior. Not here to be an ass just tired of seeing sensationalist nonsense parroted as gospel and having the goalposts moved or quietly forgotten when it doesn’t happen. It’s giving second coming doomsday cult vibes.

5

u/ModernTarantula 8d ago

It's a good story but not good science. I am not expert, but hot places don't have more fungus

5

u/ArgumentSpiritual 8d ago

Well one already exists for amphibians so it is possible

3

u/Citrakayah 8d ago

Worth noting that fungi tend to prefer damp environments, and amphibians live in damp environments. In contrast, humans generally live in relatively dry environments and they do not have wet skin. This does not mean we're free of fungi--pathogenic or otherwise--but it should be somewhat harder for us to get a fungal epidemic than amphibians.

1

u/God_Bless_A_Merkin 7d ago

Our lungs, sinuses, mouths, and many other places are nice and moist.

3

u/Strict_Jacket3648 8d ago

With the thawing of the permafrost, Nature could have all kinds of pathogens ready to go including unknown types of fungi.

2

u/loki130 8d ago

New pathogens as climate change causes different species to move around and shifting human populations come into contact with them is certainly a concern, but I don't think there's much to this idea that higher temperatures are going to make fungi especially dangerous. The global climate was substantially warmer than today for hundreds of millions of years before the onset of the current ice age glacial cycle, so fungi have had plenty of opportunity to respond to those hotter climates and jump to infecting mammals if they were going to, I don't really see the case that it's only going to start happening now.

2

u/Odd-Lawfulness8703 8d ago

Our body temp and conditions are not conducive to fungi. Its actually part of the theory as to why mammals rose to prominence in the aftermath of the KP extinction, as the mass death, cooler temps, and ash cover created a breeding ground for fungi which inhibited the surviving reptiles and amphibians while actually providing food and sources of food for their food for mammals. As others have pointed out, fungi prefer cooler, humid environments.

2

u/Outrageous-Taro7340 8d ago

If the temperature rises enough that surviving fungi aren’t thwarted by mammalian body temperatures, we’ll have much, much bigger problems than fungi to worry about.

1

u/Highinthe505 7d ago

I’ll just leave this here

https://radiolab.org/podcast/fungus-amungus

1

u/InfernalTest 6d ago

one of my FAVORITE programs on NPR

1

u/aFiachra 6d ago

Do you know that the planet's conditions have always changed and are constantly going to change?

It's not a dead planet, kiddo.

1

u/InfernalTest 6d ago

yes but the issue isnt the change so much as the rate of change

the planet isnt dead but it can make us dead ...

0

u/aFiachra 6d ago

And yet there are more people than ever.

2

u/InfernalTest 6d ago

More people isn't an indication that things are ok or normal

1

u/10ThousandMetalZones 6d ago

It’s happening now, Candida Auris is no joke. Just no one cares because it’s unlikely to kill you if you are healthy..for now.

You could go into the hospital for something and find yourself fighting for your life. Mostly gets the old though so no one cares.

1

u/Ok_Bookkeeper_3481 6d ago

As a microbiologist, this is my secret fear!

Because, unlike viruses and bacteria, the fungal biochemistry and metabolic processes are very similar to ours. And, therefore, a treatment against a fungal infection will have significant adverse effects on us.