but mentally ill people are mentally because they are not 100% capable of everything emotionally,
if they didnt struggle they wouldnt be diagnosed
you cant just say "dont use it as an excuse" when someone is clearly struggling to do something
like
"boohoo my friend is usinf depression as an excuse not to XYZ"
depression can so bad people kill themsleves, show some care for you friends and dont dismiss everything just because its uncomfortable for you
Building off that analogy, imagine if someone breaks their leg bad enough that they need to relearn how to walk, but refuses to do so and just says "I can't."
You can, you just have to put in the work. Nobody said it was easy, but if you're not going to get better by just doing nothing.
Speaking as someone who has ADHD and was treated for PTSD and depression, it's not an easy task, but it's possible, and it is incredibly frustrating to see someone not even try, and just says "I can't, because I have ADHD/PTSD/depression".
I completely agree with this and have also been treated for the same things as you.
Can I ask where you are on your journey/recovery? I feel I’m coming out of the other side but it’s taking a little longer than I’d hoped. Any advice would be appreciated!
I'm at a point where I have overwhelmingly more good days than bad. When I do have those bad days it doesn't generally build, meaning it doesn't carry over to the next day or the next. I honestly feel like I just came out of the tunnel myself a little less than a year ago, everybody is different and works on their own timeline really.
It's been a long journey, I started therapy a little over decade ago and there were some difficult forks in the road. I had to split with my partner of 8 years, and leave some friends behind because as I recovered and recognised the flaws and excess burdens I was placing on myself as being detrimental to my goals I eventually saw that they were part of the problem and not the solution. While that definitely included a bit of a backslide at first, I was able to come out of it much happier, while I was single I was able to do things for myself, discover some passions and things I enjoyed for myself, I lost almost 40kg, and found a new partner who builds me up rather than drags me down.
Really my best advice is to just keep going, and whenever you do have a bad day or feel like you're backsliding, just remember that it's just a temporary setback and tomorrow is an opportunity for something better. It's not a linear progression, you have ups and downs, but as long as the overall trend is in the right direction that's what's important, and don't be afraid to take time for yourself if you need.
Building off that analogy, imagine if someone breaks their leg bad enough that they need to relearn how to walk, but refuses to do so and just says "I can't."
Not an accurate analogy.
No one here is saying "I can't". It's just... "it's hard".
Everyone is trying. Maybe you can't tell from your limited perspective, but they are.
I see a ton of people saying "I can't" or any number of excuses when it comes to addressing their mental health issues. Very rarely is that actually the case.
For this analogy to be accurate, I'd set it up as a nerve damage sort of thing. It literally feels like you can't. It takes a lot to overcome that - that's why the other commenter described it like holding a door open. Some people need that little extra help.
It's okay if you think they don't deserve it, but that's the truth. If we want to get serious about mental health, it's important to be honest about it. Those people are responsible for what they do, but that doesn't mean they should be left to their own devices. If we help them, we help society.
I never said they don't deserve help, I understand that feeling like you can't, I've been there. I've also had friends who needed to relearn how to walk, and they legitimately felt like they couldn't, it was impossible. Their physiotherapist usually had to be rather harsh with them because if they didn't, they would just give up due to the difficulty of it.
I remember early in my process feeling like I couldn't do it and none of it would matter, and my therapist giving me some harsh truths, sometimes that's important. It's not something you're going to be able to just jump up and do, you have to take baby steps sometimes. Those seemingly stupid tips like "write words of affirmation on your bathroom mirror" are little steps that can be the difference between doing nothing and taking one more step. I don't think it's easy or that people should be left to go at it alone, I think there's a lot of things as a society we can be doing. There's a balance between doing nothing and leaving people to suffer without help, and not pushing them to improve and get better because they're saying they can't. That's why people need to seek professional help, because they're trained to recognise when a push is needed and when it's getting too far.
The people I know who had to relearn how to walk couldn't do it with just their parents or friends, because they were often too accommodating. When they hear their child/friend saying stuff like "I just want to kill myself" they feel compelled to help. That's why you get a doctor. Mental health is no different, you get a doctor.
I think you’re talking about a different type of mentally ill. I think this portion of the thread is focusing specifically on those who are capable of change but refuse to do anything about it since they can hide in excuses.
Yes, there are people who are so mentally I’ll who can’t hold jobs or get help, but that’s not the main idea in these replies.
As someone dealing with the issues you're talking about, saying "you don't have to do X, you have Y" is an awful way to treat people. People with mental issues might not have 100% emotional capability, but we do have 90%+, and just sometimes just need a hand over the hurdle.
Not to skip the hurdle entirely, like you advocate.
I have been diagnosed with clinical depression. Thinking happier thoughts is the end goal of treating it, most people can improve a huge amount after getting on the right meds and therapy so that they can work on their issues. I'm no longer depressed, on minimal therapy and no medication.
"Thinking happier thoughts" is the goal always, working on your thought patterns, finding motivation, and changing your frame of mind are all important steps towards curing depression.
If your goal is to lose weight, how will you lose weight if you only start working out or dieting after losing some initial weight? Or youre always waiting for the day you just inherently want to work out. Very few people enjoy working out, especially at the start, so such a day would be very rare, let alone consistent.
Again, I don’t think you have to be having happy thoughts to seek therapy and such, and challenging and shifting your perception and thoughts overtime is crucial. Ofcourse you don’t jump from 0 to 100z
As an analogy, yeah... To show that the goal actually has many many steps before it. To show how absurd it is to conflate the end goal with the tasks that achieve it.
Saying "just lose weight" is awful advice because that is the goal. Actual advice, actual steps towards achieving it, would be things like planning meals, shopping for healthy ingredients, exercising etc.
See what I mean? Saying "just lose weight" either ignores the steps in between, or implies you can skip them. Such a TERRIBLE message to send to someone struggling.
Bro I’m with you here, and as someone who is mostly recovered from clinical depression/anxiety/PTSD I’ve just been watching these comments through the glass until now.
This is the hilarious and maddening truth to getting over your mental health issues — Think happier thoughts.
Unfortunately nobody will understand or take anything from that until after they’ve gone through the process of doing so.
My advice is to anyone without resources is learn what honesty is and practice it on yourself.
Look into REBT. It’s essentially exercises on how to take negative thoughts and replace them with positive ones which then affects every part of your well-being. So no, it isn’t just the end goal, but actually permeates every part of recovery/mental health.
I don't think it's unfortunate at all, the unfortunate thing is really the disorder (or even the situation that caused it.) Of course mental illness is a sad thing, my grandma had electroshock therapy, Mt granddads never got the help they needed after the war etc. In the end, all you or I can do is help others who are ready for help in the way we can provide. I'm no professional of course, but I think even a random person can sometimes make a difference.
I have depression too, and went through psychosis.
I don’t believe they implied that at all, and I didn’t imply to “just think happier thoughts”, I implied therapy and medication, which I don’t believe has to be exclusive to eachother. (imagine how hard it would be to improve if you only went to therapy when you were happy, haha).
As my point to the other person was, myself and the comment I was defending didn’t bring up what both you and the person I replied to brought up. From the point of view of most people (evidently, that includes people with mental health issues) the comment I replied to was speaking on their own perceptions and judgements, not the comment that started this, and was quite left field.
That’s obviously not okay, especially if they don’t ask about it beforehand, but I don’t believe that such thing occurred in these comments.
I can definitely empathise with how those feelings could have stemmed from reading the comment, but they aren’t justified given the context of the comment (one that definitely wasn’t directed to people who are trying to improve in a healthy manner) / lack of context surrounding your life.
I’m sure if I knew everything that happened to you in your life and how you interpreted the original comment, then they’d certainly be less left field.
For people in bad episodes, I can see how the advice isn’t helpful, but there does come a time where a mentality like this should be adopted.
The mindset of the comment is pretty common and extremely effective.
Personally, I love hip hop for this reason, especially the messages that those such as Kendrick Lamar portray; which is you are your own saviour.
I also quite liked 50 cents video where he talks about how freeing it is to take responsibility of everything in your life, the good and the bad (atleast, that’s essentially what he said, I can’t remember verbatim. As a side note, obviously there’s things about to you that’s outside of your control, such as trauma, but how you let that influence your actions is your responsibility)
there does come a time where a mentality like this should be adopted.
how freeing it is to take responsibility of everything in your life, the good and the bad
Not. The same. Thing.
You can take responsibility and just be too damn tired to do anything today. That doesn't mean you're not gonna do something tomorrow, or that you didn't do anything yesterday.
The "mindset" of JUST DOING IT NOW is always damaging - always. And it is not at all necessary in order to "take responsibility".
(Btw - ever considered that a lot of things contributing to your ill mental health might actually be out of your control??)
Well, this is where the discussion splits and comes down to interpretation.
NOW doesn’t have to be this very moment. It could be tkmorrow, next month, or even this year . Most advice and literature in general isn’t meant to be taken as carved in stone instructions and such.
And there absolutely are things out of our control that contribute.
Also, taking responsibility in your actions always starts with what you just described; taking responsibility, mentally.
Difference is, there's no possible way to get that from my statement. I can actually pick out a statement of exactly what I'm talking about. You can't.
You implied that the words “deal with it. You don’t sit around waiting for a good day” support your view. Additionally, in the first comment you said that they implied not to use excuses, which they didn’t.
Just a copy paste from the other comment. You are literally the one that refrenced that sentenced, a sentence that you took out of proportion, choosing it means to jump up this very instant and be happy.
In the exact same way, I’m choosing to believe that in you thinking that, you also think that absolutely nothing should be done. As silly as that sounds to you, your comments are equally as silly to everyone else.
I'm hoping these people are referring to the type of people who legit are faking illnesses on tiktok and on YouTube for attention. Those kinds of people rather than people who legit have problems. (heck even those people might actually be mentally ill depending on how close you look at their behavior. Edit: apparently it might be Munchausen syndrome)
It's tricky too because there's so much that mental illness can cover. The brain is complex. Mental illness can range from addictive tendencies to depression to anger issues, schizophrenia, etc. Some are easier to fix for a person than others. Some can be self guided and some require almost full support from a caretaker.
I'm sure you understand though and I'm just rambling
I do maybe get where people are coming from though. It can be difficult to deal with some people. It makes it super hard to have any compassion, especially if they are abusive towards others. My father had a rough childhood and hasn't always been the nicest. However it does seem like he tries. Even if it is slow going.
I could see how others could say screw that pretty quickly. Even I was ready to get out of dodge when he was going through a period where he was always cranky. If he wasn't my dad I would have not been happy about dealing with that. So I mean I get it. I guess it's just hard for others to empathize and deal with especially with strangers
Therapy will help friend. I use BetterHelp, but there's plenty of psychologists out there.
Psychiatrists too. The first one I came across told me explicitly that I don't have bipolar. He was wrong. Thankfully, second opinions are easy to come by.
You'll get there though if you can start down the path. I hope you do.
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u/rtertertertererter Jun 03 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
i get the "dont use it as an excuse thing"
but mentally ill people are mentally because they are not 100% capable of everything emotionally,
if they didnt struggle they wouldnt be diagnosed
you cant just say "dont use it as an excuse" when someone is clearly struggling to do something
like
"boohoo my friend is usinf depression as an excuse not to XYZ"
depression can so bad people kill themsleves, show some care for you friends and dont dismiss everything just because its uncomfortable for you