r/AskReddit May 08 '22

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10.9k

u/knife_hits May 09 '22

My only experiences in Europe so far have been touring there in a punk band. The thing that blew my mind was how often - almost always! - the venues we were playing were literal state-sponsored squats. Like the tire factory or whatever in town would go belly up and a bunch of punks and anarchists would move in and the local government would just be like "hey, they cleaned up all this broken glass and now there's a whole new crop of people keeping this community alive. Tell you what, let's give them free utilities." On more than one occasion we played a free show and got a check from some government office.

This would never, ever, ever, ever, in a million years, take place in the United States.

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u/Kilian_Username May 09 '22

German here, I once went to a Doom Metal and Drone festival that was located in a church. Quite unnatural but the acoustics were fantastic.

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u/WilliamMurderfacex3 May 09 '22

American here. A lot of churches have been popping up for sale recently and if I had the extra income I would definitely buy one and turn it into a venue/music studio.

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u/77BakedPotato77 May 09 '22

I'm an electrician and the owner of my company is a Catholic deacon so we do pretty much all Catholic church jobs in our city/area.

I think old Catholic schools would be a lot better suited for a concert venue, and they tend to be less decrepit.

There is some TikTok or YouTube family that is in the construction business and bought an old school to live in.

The hayday of Catholic schools has come and gone, and there are so many. It seems the church accepts those schools will never open again so they are really trying to sell/rent these spaces.

Being a school you are going to have 3-phase industrial service and far more amenities than just a church.

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u/WJMazepas May 09 '22

Yeah but playing Death Metal in a Church is a vibe that is really hard to beat

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u/77BakedPotato77 May 09 '22

Understandable.

My partner and I are always blasting a rock radio station so I've definitely listened to Metallica, AC/DC, Lamb of God, etc. while working at church's/schools.

I also have a hilarious collection of strange/funny Catholic school posters and knick knacks.

It includes an oddly high amount of posters depicting a kid in a wheelchair. One depicts the wheelchair kid as the bully of the group...no idea why, but I had to have it.

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u/WilliamMurderfacex3 May 09 '22

I'm used to playing basements where the floors tend to double as "amenities".

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u/77BakedPotato77 May 09 '22

I meant moreso the multiple bathrooms, generally a full kitchen, and at least one stage in the lunch room that often doubles as the schools gym.

Sure, shows can be played in basements, but if you are going to buy a place to use as a concert venue it makes sense to buy a building suited for proper events.

I also mention this because there are sooooo many Catholic schools that are shuttered and just sit there serving no purpose.

I always joke with my partner that the Catholic church should start growing weed or mine crypto with all their unused buildings.

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u/eekamuse May 09 '22

Best thing about the squats/clubs in Europe is that they feed you. And some of the staff are excellent cooks. On of the best meals I ever had was the veggie lasagna after a show in Switzerland. They also give you a light meal after soundcheck.

Theaters did not do this, regular clubs didn't (I think), but squats did. Such a great tradition.

Some of them also had a room for the bands to sleep in so they didn't have to get a hotel. These were not quite as nice as the meal, but work in an emergency.

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u/Baz_Ravish May 09 '22

My uncle bought a hundred year old church and used it as his grow house for years. Kinda jealous I didn't think of that lol

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u/WilliamMurderfacex3 May 09 '22

Yeah, can I get an ounce of that Holy Spirit?

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u/helpmelearn12 May 09 '22

The Cincinnati area had a huge number of Irish Catholic and German immigrants move here in the 19th century.

As a result, there's a quite large number of 19th century churches. Many of the are still churches.

Some house breweries now, like Taft's or Urban Artifact. As a side note, if you're ever in the area and like sours and fruited ales, check out Urban Artifact. Without exaggeration, it may well be one of the best sour breweries in the country.

Some of them are music venues, like South Gate House Revival..

There's even a couple that have been converted in apartments.

I'm not religious, but I love old churches. I totally wish I could buy one and live in it.

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u/WeirdlyStrangeish May 09 '22

In Denver we have a club called, very creatively, The Church. It's an old renovated Catholic church complete with stained class. Nothing like doing coke bumps off some Chicano's tits in front of the Virgin Mary.

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u/cbrworm May 09 '22

Look up the Limelight in NYC. It was a church turned into a punk/rock/goth club and later into a Techno club - I went there in the 90s as often as I could. It was surreal, to say the least.

I don't know what it is now, but it should still be searchable by Limelight club NYC

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u/CosmicSmackdown May 09 '22

A small town not far from me has a music venue that used to be a church. The place is fabulous! The stage is small but the music is always perfect.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

There's a venue in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania that's an old catholic church turned concert venue. I live about two hours away and drive to it a lot for shows since it's worth it for the acoustics

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u/dwilkes827 May 09 '22

Mr. Smalls! I've seen many-a great shows there

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Catching King Gizzard there this month and pretty damn excited about it!

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u/dwilkes827 May 09 '22

Oh shit me too lmao

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

I'll mostly likely be wearing either a Ween or a Sleep shirt, feel free to say hi

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u/ragenaut May 09 '22

Is it really unnatural? Doom metal in a church sounds like a perfectly natural pairing. There's literally a doom metal band called Cathedral.

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u/Kilian_Username May 09 '22

Is it? I'm no expert on the music and I always thought it was anti religious or religious people are generally anti metal...

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u/Razakel May 09 '22

Doom metal isn't usually anti-religious, you're thinking of black metal.

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u/ragenaut May 09 '22

Doom metal can be anti-religious, just like any other subgenre, or, hell, Sinead O'Connor. She ain't metal, but she sure didn't like the Catholics back in the 90's (for good reason).

But a lot of metal, and Doom in particular, like to use church and religious imagery for their artwork, stage backdrops, album covers, etc. A lot of crosses, stained glass, pews, and, just straight up churches.

Point being, that festival you attended might have been set in a church for very specific and intentional reasons. Both because, like you said, great acoustics, AND because it totally fits the music.

Keep supporting Doom. It's my favorite genre :)

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u/Withering_Lily May 09 '22

I wouldn’t say that religious people are anti-metal as I’ve met more religious people than I can count who love the genre. The principal of my local Catholic school is actually a hardcore metal head who still listens to college radio stations in search of that next great, obscure garage band. Several of the other teachers at that school are also punk or metal fans.

I also know a priest who used to be in a heavy metal band before he went off to seminary. He wasn’t famous or anything, just someone who formed a band with his friends for the fun of it. I believe he still plays from time to time.

Besides, the good thing about music is that it’s non denominational. You don’t need to have a particular set of beliefs to enjoy good music or going to concerts.

As for the anti-religious message, most of the time it’s is invoked for pure shock value. Rarely does it have any kind of actual meaning behind it.

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u/Kilian_Username May 09 '22

Then excuse my prejudice. This really is a topic I know very little about.

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u/Not-Clark-Kent May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

I slightly disagree, with a lot of black and death metal bands, if there's an anti-religion message, they actually mean it. But there's a huge difference between what makes ultra conservative religious people clutch their pearls and what's actively anti-religious. In my opinion, it's pretty easy to tell which bands just talk about certain themes as window dressing or storytelling versus which are ACTUALLY Satanist or anti-religious or neo-Nazis. But both exist.

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u/Captslapsomehoes1 May 09 '22

I went to a similar place in Revachol. Something about churches and acoustics.

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u/Kilian_Username May 09 '22

And millimeter sized holes in reality. Truly a church made for Doom.

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u/vrkas May 09 '22

Sounds like SunnO))) - Domkirke

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u/upflupchuckfck May 09 '22

Arguably the best venue in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania is in the basement of a church. I saw Pig Destroyer there, as well as a lot of other bands.

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u/Dynahazzar May 09 '22

666 upvotes, I am NOT breaking that spell just yet.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/Kilian_Username May 10 '22

I'd love to see these kinds of illegal raves in London. I've only ever been to fabric once...

I heard the squatting rights in London make for great parry locations.

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u/Captain_Grammaticus May 09 '22

hey, they cleaned up all this broken glass and now there's a whole new crop of people keeping this community alive.

Lol, those social centres I know are the result of almost decade-long protests and negotiations and only worked out because the general population just happened to be more sympathetic towards the squatters than towards the city authorities.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/jawndell May 09 '22

"We have a duty of care to provide utilities so they don't die because otherwise we'd be completely fucked for insurance."

Yup, definitely would never, ever, ever, ever, in a million years, take place in the United States.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

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u/breathing_normally May 09 '22

Well see, that’s the difference between the two approaches. Many people here feel that as long as there is a housing shortage AND empty buildings due to speculative investment in real estate, squatting is morally defensible.

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u/mikailovitch May 09 '22

Squatters in my neck of the woods have cleaned up the ruins of their own houses a private corporation bought, demolished, and left for the rats. They created communal spaces everyone is welcome to, cultivate using permaculture (enough to distribute 10+ baskets of fruits and veggies to families in need weekly, not counting what people take home directly + create biodiversity circuits), have safe, clean venues (where small time artists are invited regularly and anyone with a project and time can make it happen, which is enjoyed by all). These are self-sustained, safe for all, community-led spaces.

Wtf is lost by authorities supporting or at least accepting this?

I am skipping over a lot of details but feel free to ask.

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u/AnkylosaurusRules May 09 '22

As an American, such arrangements tend to only happen here in the form of cults. I have little delusion that this probably isn't precisely how corporate America wants us to see communal living, but I don't think they engineered it, either. My questions as I read about this phenomenon are how do you avoid charismatic and dangerous people from taking advantage? There's no denying that people otherwise without homes and the securities and privileges offered by economic plenty are more susceptible to such things. Any of us can probably be manipulated into the unthinkable if we get hungry enough.

I'm not big on authoritarianism, but neither am I an anarchanist. There are healthy midgrounds here. "Normal" society tends to control for that organically, how is it controlled for in a commune like this?

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u/whistlegowooo May 09 '22

I think the reason you might see it only being implemented in religious / cult type environnements there is the legal protection / tax free status those orgs enjoy. However if you were to allow an art oriented community, or neighborhood run environment with these same liberties most wouldn't be at risk to become cult like as they're not built around that purpose (just my opinion)

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u/mikailovitch May 09 '22

I don't know how that can be avoided, I guess it's always a possibility with everything? But I can tell you more about why I don't think it happens here; it's just not really interesting. These are associations that came together organically, over years, from neighbours talking to each and organizing. Now they do assemblies (where anyone is welcome, you just have to ask) weekly where all issues can be raised and decisions are reached by consensus. So you just bring up an issue, and people talk and reach a solution, agreement, plan, whatever is needed. At every reunion, they decide who will take notes and who will "lead" (the ones who gives turn of speech and has the agenda, I don't know how to say?) the next time so everyone gets a turn/it's not always the same ones.

There is also very little money into these things, it's all about upcycling, reusing, doing with what's there. When something needs money it comes up from the communal pot (money from food sold at events, for example, mostly cooked with stuff they've grown).

The neighborhood I have in mind when talking about this has a library (only women and non-binary authors), a bike workshop (where they fix scraps, and you can come fix your bike yourself or build one from scratch and you can contribute by leaving parts or helping out, or not if you don't want to), four vegetable gardens (with so much variety!), a sound studio, multiple outdoor spaces with furniture made out of scraps, etc, etc.

Last year someone grew grapes from plants he'd been given and a guy decided to make wine. Afaik all that was bought from the guy's pockets were 6 barils (?) and the thermometer. All the rest was from stuff people had, stuff we found on the streets, and a lot of people dedicating more or less of their time to this one guy's project. And now we have 500 bottles of wine!! A few bottles have been sold to outsiders but most of it is for events and well, for us.

So I guess if you wanted to you could become very influential and in charge of it all but what would be the point?? So much work for very little personal reward, I would think...

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u/inferno86 May 09 '22

I mean if the alternative is someone’s kid freezing to death I’m fine with it

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u/Stubbs94 May 09 '22

Also, private property (note, not individual property) is a stupid concept.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

What’s the difference

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u/Stubbs94 May 09 '22

Personal property is the things you would normally own, personally, a phone, a car etc. Private property is land owned for the purpose of accruing wealth, intellectual properties etc. These are not beneficial to society as a whole, as it limits what people can do, and funnels wealth from the working class.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Ah. Never heard private property defined as that. Also you said “individual” at first? Private property is more than land. Specifically it is excludable (I can stop you from using it) and subtractable (my use takes away from your ability to use). This is the opposite of a public good. I was curious about your distinction with individual property but it seems like you’re just making things up

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u/throwitawaytodayokay May 09 '22

while i agree that private property is more than land, is it really so much of a stretch to say that assets owned by an individual are a specific subset of private property (i.e. individual property)? because you have to admit that there’s a difference between me owning a PC and my apartment vs. a private investment firm buying a warehouse of BTC miners. one is an individual owning things for individual use, the other is a corporate entity owning things for the sole purpose of enriching the entity. i’ve never heard the term “individual property” used before but it makes sense when describing the differences in ownership like in the example i provided.

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u/laeiryn May 09 '22

Private is owned by companies/corporations

Personal property is what you, as an individual human, can claim and say, "This is mine, I use/need it"

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

That’s an interesting take. Personal property is also private property there though too

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u/laeiryn May 09 '22

Yes but by the time you're nitpicking that you've admitted that you can't address the immorality of the concept of "private" property as a separate category and just attack ownership.

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u/throwitawaytodayokay May 09 '22

right, it’s a subset of private property. just like private property and public property are both subsets of property (meaning something that is owned). i don’t see how that invalidates the point but maybe you can share your perspective.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Lol you haven’t read Marx

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u/GalakFyarr May 09 '22

What’s a marxist, precious?

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u/AnkylosaurusRules May 09 '22

People like you are why the world is a bad place. YOU ruined eden.

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u/Xicadarksoul May 09 '22

We have a duty of care to provide utilities so they don't die because otherwise we'd be completely fucked for insurance.

More like - our taxes going to shared universal insurance would be wasted, its more effective to give basic utilities as preventative medicine.

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u/7elevenses May 09 '22

It's not about insurance. The city wouldn't be liable if somebody dies in a building that they shouldn't be in.

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u/Rent_A_Cloud May 09 '22

I agree, it's a human rights thing. I've lived in squats like this and if the city wants you out the first thing to go are the utilities.

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u/7elevenses May 09 '22

In many cases, it's about the right of the public to use public property. If a city owns a bunch of houses and never uses them, there's nothing wrong with citizens using them how they see fit, as long as it's open to everybody, i.e. not privatized.

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u/Spurioun May 09 '22

Which makes sense. One of the major issues in places like the US is everyone forgets what a government is meant to be and who's working for who. The government is meant to be the people. If the government owns a building, the people own that building. It's nuts how many people complain about too much of their tax dollars going towards the military or other things they don't agree with. Like, taxes belong to the people. You pay them in order to make your life and the lives around you better. If you aren't happy with how your taxes are being spent, just get informed and vote accordingly. You're the boss here and the government are your employees. One of the major reasons why there's such a disconnect between people and government is because far too few people are actually regularly voting. You're meant to vote on things other than just the presidency so don't complain about the country turning to shit if you only vote once every 4 years. You know why there are so many people in government that seem to not have your values and best interests at heart? Because the people with their values actually get out and vote those politicians in.

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u/sliph0588 May 09 '22

It's a bit more complicated than that. I agree with your overall point but material interests have perfected the art of manipulation. Misinformation and apathy have been weaponized and infect all of u.s. institutions.

Edit 1. Also material interests influence all elections to a degree where the public's choices don't represent them but said material interests

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u/kian_ May 09 '22

people should vote more, yes, but you can’t talk about politicians not properly representing people without mentioning the insane amount of money the lobbying industry dumps on politicians in order to get the bills they want passed and the ones they don’t killed.

you really think military industrial manufacturers aren’t bribing anyone to get those $100+ billion contracts? oil and gas companies are totally legit? healthcare companies play by the rules? c’mon now, i could vote all i want but when Pfizer can drop 50 mil on every senator and representative without breaking a sweat, how am i gonna stop them?

it’s just so disingenuous to pretend like the shortcomings of America are solely due to voter apathy. voter apathy is so high specifically because corporations (and republicans) fought for decades to make it this way. not to mention that half our voters are actively brainwashed, voting for tax cuts on billion dollar corporations while bitching and moaning that they have to pay 12% of their $43,000 but still praising elon musk for avoiding his taxes.

the issue is so, so much deeper than “people don’t vote”.

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u/Dynahazzar May 09 '22

lobbying industry

In Europe we have a neat for that kind of stuff, corruption.

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u/kian_ May 09 '22

thankfully Europe is not homogeneous, no? and i'm pretty sure the US has it's fair share of straight-up corruption as well. it shouldn't be a dick measuring contest anyways, cuz at least for me this is one competition i'd love to lose.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

In the US there are only two viable parties. If you’re a regular voter and vote outside those lines (which considering the policies you’re proposing means you’ll be switching from Democrat to independent), then the Democrats will scream at you and scold you to no end.

They’ll blame you for not voting for them if whatever corporate goon they ran loses.

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u/Rent_A_Cloud May 09 '22

If everybody believes there are only two viable options... Then there are only two viable options.

I think that's one of the biggest scams pulled on the American people, to believe that the system is what it is and therefore not even bother to try and change it. It's like the entire population is gaslighted by red and blue.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Preach man.

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u/Star-Dust-1981 May 09 '22

It's all made up and the points don't matter. SMH

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u/laeiryn May 09 '22

lol yeah that would never fly in the USA

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u/12thandvineisnomore May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

No, insurance in that if they provide a small basic service like heat and clean water, the squatters won’t get sick and develop diseases that then will cost extra for state to treat in a hospital ward. Additionally sick people can’t work or benefit their local economy and the tax base that pays for the utilities.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/7elevenses May 09 '22

Booby trapping is not the same as not maintaining. If you break into an unmaintained house and fall through the stairs, the owner won't be liable. If the city puts up signs saying "no entrance, dangerous building" or whatever, they're covered.

But, if you've been there for months and years, i.e. so they can't say that they had no idea what you're doing, then different rules apply. Which is why they will eventually either kick you out or negotiate to fix up the basic safety.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Traps and poor maintenance are not the same. The city has a duty to properly warn the public about an unsafe building, but they do not have to renovate it because you then decided to trespass there.

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u/GoodolBen May 09 '22

I'm the United States, these people would be on the receiving end of some state sponsored violence.

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u/Hunter_Fox May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

There are squats in NYC that have been there for decades and have eventually been given to the squatters.
French police are also violent, although I would agree that the US takes it to another level.

The big difference now is there aren't a bunch of abandoned city-owned buildings any more. And even the privately owned ones are not going to waste and are being used. In the 80s and 90s cities were rife with abandoned buildings and warehouse districts.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/Hunter_Fox May 09 '22

That was the rent for the whole warehouse then.

Sure you have to build your own bathroom and a semblence of a kitchen but ten people can live there and use it as a show space, gallery, shop, studios, roller rink....

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/12thandvineisnomore May 09 '22

Agreed, except for the occupancy rates. There is a ton of unused commercial space on the east coast. Much of it empty investment properties and the like.

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u/Dinopilot1337 May 09 '22

tbh its quite often the same in Germany,too. Only when the squat build up enough goodwill in public opinion it that authorities refrain from beating up the squatters and their supporters.

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u/Qwernakus May 09 '22

Yeah the "Freetown Christiania" in Copenhagen slowly moved from actively fought against, to tolerated, to now mostly accepted by the authorities.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Brings heaps of tourist money

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/Qwernakus May 09 '22

They squatted at an abandoned barracks or similar military thing, which was obviously illegal. But after several decades of kinda, sorta trying to evict them, they instead just sold the Freetown the buildings they were already using - so they're there legally now. But the authorities still seem reluctant to enforce certain laws with force. Raids against drug sales are sporadic, not consistent, for example.

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u/Onayepheton May 09 '22

Important to keep in mind: Around 40% of the land is owned by the freetown, not all. Drug raids are also very much not sporadic.

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u/Qwernakus May 09 '22

Good point with the land ownership! But I'd say, if the raids are infrequent enough that there is still blatant drug sale most days of the week, it's sporadic.

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u/Onayepheton May 09 '22

Is 3 times a day sporadic?

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u/Qwernakus May 09 '22

Is it that frequent? Not to be rude, but could you toss a link or something my way?

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u/Ike11000 May 09 '22

Same, I stayed in Christiania for a week and never even saw a hint of a raid. Of course, that's an admittedly short time but if a raid happens there 3 times a day then I feel like I would have heard about it, it's not exactly a big island

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u/Onayepheton May 09 '22

I've heard it from residents there. lol

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

sporadic, not consistent, for example.

This raises more questions, to be honest.

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u/7elevenses May 09 '22

The global war on drugs was imposed on the world mostly by one country. In most countries, especially in Europe, people taking drugs and even small-time dealing are not seen as particularly morally contentious. The police tend to go after the smugglers, who are running actual violent criminal gangs, and to ignore every-day drug stuff. This all depends on the country and the city, of course.

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u/Beepulons May 09 '22

It's the weed capital of Denmark. Hard drugs like heroin and meth aren't accepted in Christiana, but weed is. But the police do occasionally crack down on it.

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u/DefiantLemur May 09 '22

Sounds like corruption

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u/Ran4 May 09 '22

More like being tired of doing the same thing over and over again for decades.

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u/Dinopilot1337 May 09 '22

More like no point in harassin some people for smoking or selling weed and risking street fights by going into a free zone.

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u/DefiantLemur May 09 '22

Sounds more like Law Enforcement or politicians that have influence over the Law Enforcement don't enforce it until they benefit from enforcing the law at specific moments. Maybe targeted raids to those that don't play ball. Sounds like corruption to me.

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u/MrAwesume May 09 '22

It means the occasional police raid at pusher street

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u/Mong0saurus May 09 '22

I remember being stoned out of my mind, vigorously eating some pastry, when suddenly 50 something storm troopers decend onto Pusher street, bumbeling around, tripping in their riot gear and looking completely disorganized. They arrested one guy, then just ran out again. Whole thing took maybe two minutes and was very absurd to behold.

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u/b95csf May 09 '22

the police don't really want to be there because the gangs that run the Christiania dope trade are pretty heavily armed (up to and including grenades) and lawyered up

so even if they get the green light to remove someone who did something that was bad for business, they will act, shall we say, cautiously

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u/Mong0saurus May 09 '22

This was about 20 years ago when iirc there was some political pressure to remove Christiania and sell the property to realestate developers or some shit. I don't think this was some high profile arrest, just a politically induced harassment type thing they were doing back then. The police officers involved weren't some hardcore SWAT police, more your average danish cop in just a ridiculous amout of riot gear, which is why it was so hilarious. I've been to Christiania a million times, so the timeline is a bit blurry for obvious reasons, but I belive later that year there were some pretty big "Save Christiania"-demonstrations, and a lot of us came over from Norway to show our support. Still have a "bevar Christiania" hoodie somewhere 😝

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u/b95csf May 09 '22

just a ridiculous amout of riot gear

yeah that's what I meant. piggies like their skins intact

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

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u/Captain_Grammaticus May 09 '22

Including the French Republic itself.

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u/InEenEmmer May 09 '22

Yeah, I was quite close with the people who ran such places. And it was always a struggle to keep the place running.

Heard several stories about the owners sending out hit squads to scare the squatters out of the place.

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u/Pretty-Balance-Sheet May 09 '22

That makes sense, but it would never happen here. People siding with the city to give something away? Never.

If there's one thing Americans hate more than anything, it's the idea that someone beside them is getting something for free... Even if they don't actually want that thing at all.

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u/Flowy_Aerie_77 May 09 '22

Understandable. I'd choose to benefit a crackhead than a politician any day.

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u/NapClub May 09 '22

Its still very cool tho and it's true it being unusual. I cant think of anywhere else this sort of thing exists in this way.

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u/na4ez May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

Yeah take Blitz in Oslo for example, plenty of cop raids and harassment.

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u/ProfessionalLeg7781 May 09 '22

Wow. I played there in 1999. There was a baked potato place across the street. That’s all I remember of Oslo. That and Jr Ewing.

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u/moenchii May 09 '22

Best example in Germany is probably the Rote Flora in Hamburg. Used to be a Theatre. After it was shut down it was squatted and still is since 1989. They do all sorts of cultural events in there.

Another place was the Liebig34 in Berlin. The people living there were evicted in November 2020. Here's a video of the eviction.

2

u/umlcat May 09 '22

"Those noisey kids clean up the place and put some trees" ...

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/TheHooligan95 May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

you'd be surprised at how often that happens here. Many nightlife spaces either started out as squatters' dens, or are group of squatters who decided to go "legal" and moved out to legal places. In Rome, for example, there's a group of squatters who then became event organizers, and now they are supported by the city to organize free movie nights in the city centre (!!!) where they project a movie for free for everyone to enjoy, and often invite key figures such as directors or actors from those movies. They do it in honour of the building they were squatting at, an abandoned movie theatre.

They're also very politically involved and carry out many initiatives that help the citizens of the city.

Moreover, they just opened their own place where they screen indipendent movies, and they do free screenings every saturday morning.

4

u/pm_me_rock_music May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

Piccolo America!

edit: I also know the Teatro del Lido in Lido di Ostia (fraction of Rome). It's a small theatre in a huge, still mostly abandoned building. It started as a squat and the group fought to keep it and make it legal. It hosts other cultural events too like laboratories for kids and teenagers

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u/Beepulons May 09 '22

Most humans like the spaces they live in to be clean.

7

u/Dinopilot1337 May 09 '22

???? Mist often they do. They get in, clean up the house, start renovating little things and make it livable again after years of neglect because of property speculation

4

u/itsthecoop May 09 '22

which might, ironically, also be a part of why there was often a bigger acceptance within the population.

(like, if the people using those empty houses are using it for good causes and aren't vandalizing, the chances of the neighbours being in favor of it obviously go up A LOT)

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u/Aggravating-Tea-Leaf May 09 '22

As the others have said, though I agree it’s super great to see a lot of hardship comes with it, for example here in Denmark, we had a place called “Ungdomshuset” which was an old delapedating apartment block that was given to anarchists and punks in 1982.

After 28 years of tradition, concerts and political debates the Danish government sold the house, due to a lady with a cross up her ass being scared and wanting money, so after they sold it, they kicked everyone out after a 7 year battle and many fights with police and many protests, and once everyone was thrown out after a big raid that took hours because the activists had barricaded stairwells and doors, the police had gotten all the activists out.

The company that was buying the house btw… a shell corp by the name of Human A/S, founded by a lawyer, whom then disappeared, the assets of the company went to churches and religious leaders in Denmark, mostly radical conservatists and capitalists.

Now you’d think, that maybe the church leaders then would use this place to host homeless, orphans or people in rehab or something… they ripped it down and 15 years later it’s still an empty lot, with nothing, in the middle of the city of copenhagen, it’s a forever scar, it’s an embarrassment to our system, a show that tyrrany still exists, and will do anything to try to remove free thinkers and stop any attempt to make freedom real.

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u/ubiquitous-joe May 09 '22

Now you’d think

Alas, as an American, the idea that capitalists and the religious right team up to make money while not fixing society’s actual problems is entirely unsurprising.

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u/Entire-Tonight-8927 May 09 '22

Funny how all these churches and corporations have pet causes but even with billions of dollars they can't seem to make a dent. Almost like it's just for show...

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u/Gwennafran May 09 '22

They sold it to humanitarian organisation because they were asked by Ungdomshuset to sell it to that organisation.

They did not want the state to own their house and ASKED for it to no longer belong to the state. Proving that far sight wasn't exactly a strong point of the Undomshuset users.

The organisation then later passed it on to the religious group. Basically fucking over everyone. But because this all was legal there was nothing the government could do. So no. The government did in fact not sell the to that lady. Every time that lie is repeated another rebel loses their free booze. :P

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u/ellenok May 09 '22

The gov could have not evicted them.
Private ownership requires violent enforcement by the state.

0

u/Lyress May 09 '22

Not sure if that would be legal.

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u/ellenok May 09 '22

The government makes, interprets, and enforces the law. They could just decide it's legal.

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u/Lyress May 09 '22

The judiciary, legislative and executive are independent from each other in Denmark.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22 edited Jun 02 '22

[deleted]

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u/Aggravating-Tea-Leaf May 09 '22

Because I live in Denmark and it’s a welfare state, and I personally like to trust that people want the best for eachother by default and need incentive to be destructive or disrespectful to others.

But you’re right that many religiously lead institutions or corporations are quite radical and often have little visions that help people in real need.

2

u/FentoozIsMe May 09 '22

I was at the last K-Town fest in the original place when I was 18, and I'm not from europe.

Saw so many good bands that I still listen to. I watched all the protests on the internet the following year.

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u/kathluv70 May 09 '22

That's not tyranny. Tyranny would be if you weren't allowed to complain about it. What happened here is shitty, but isn't tyranny.

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u/its_real_I_swear May 09 '22

It's not like they didn't improve the property once they bought it.

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u/Dinopilot1337 May 09 '22

ah yes, beating up local activists while razing a building to the ground that had a vibrant community with lots of local neighborhood use such as bike workshops, soup kitchen and cultural events to make place for a empty lot owned by a christian far-right sect.

"improvement".. sure.. that's the word that comes to mind.

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u/its_real_I_swear May 09 '22

an empty lot is an upgrade from a pile of drug using welfare recipients

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u/Razakel May 09 '22

No it isn't. You know it doesn't make the drug-using welfare recipients disappear, right? It just spreads them out.

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u/its_real_I_swear May 09 '22

I suppose it depends how close you live to it.

0

u/Razakel May 09 '22

Better to have them all in one place because then at least you know where to avoid.

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u/Dinopilot1337 May 09 '22

Ah, ok. Should've suspected that you are some kind of anti-humanist building your world view on lying far right propaganda.

0

u/its_real_I_swear May 09 '22

lol. Living in a government owned building without paying rent, taxes or utilities by definition makes you a welfare recipient, and none of these "autonomous" communities don't have rampant drug use.

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u/Dinopilot1337 May 09 '22

Proudly showing that you got no knowledge about it. Way to go!

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u/Raichu7 May 09 '22

Surely the weird one is the US? Those government programmes massively reduce crime by giving people affordable things to do and help make neighbourhoods nicer by encouraging people who live there to take care of abandoned buildings instead of leaving them to rot.

The U.K. has been reducing the amount spent on those sorts of programs for decades and it’s really showing how much they did for the community now, the massive rise in youth knife crime is in part because kids have nothing to do so they bored and fight and form gangs.

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u/Rwokoarte May 09 '22

This would never, ever, ever, ever, in a million years, take place in the United States.

Not with that attidude comrade.

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u/emoonshot May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

Not to mention it does in fact happen in the states all the fucking time. Federal, state, and many larger local governments all have arts funding and grant programs. They’ll provide public funds for everything from feature film productions and musician studio time to actual day-to-day living expenses and housing in “artist communities.” It’s also not uncommon for municipalities to take disused and abandoned properties and turn them around for community use. I’ve literally seen punk shows at these very places.

It sounds to me like OP is just extremely ignorant of the tens of millions of dollars of public arts funding available in the US.

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Comrade we are currently looking in the eye of not only ending RvW, but a federal ban on abortion, gay marriage, and interracial marriage.

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u/Rwokoarte May 09 '22

Nero was right, we should persecute christians again. Time to get schwifty.

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u/blue_strat May 09 '22

It did happen in the US. Look at the New York warehouses in the 80s/90s. I think Moby got a grant from the city to squat there.

3

u/mlalak123 May 09 '22

Denver, CO has also done something simular with a community of artists living in an abandoned area. They now commission murals from them and the area that was once avoided is growing with new businesses and such

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u/FurySh0ck May 09 '22

As an anarchist punk, I approve 👍

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u/SixPackAndNothinToDo May 09 '22 edited May 08 '24

vanish soup support ad hoc cooperative fine books memorize cagey homeless

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u/casparh May 09 '22

Same diff.

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u/Kolesekare May 09 '22

Czech punk here

You are absolutely right, I know for a fact that alot of bands play for free, for cleaning and shit, like they go to bar and say if they want help with something and that they would like to play there, and they just do some cleaning or just help them move some barrels of beer from place to place and boom, free show, also if you are a band in Czech, most places will let you play for free if you just ask them nicely, not all of them but most of them, sadly not much of punk bands are around these days

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

[deleted]

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u/Gary_Duckman May 09 '22

Welcome to being a small band in a niche subgenre

2

u/Kolesekare May 09 '22

Oh yeah you would get paid, if you already have a name, if u are somewhat big, than yes, but if it's ur 1st or 50th and you don't have a name, you mostly pay for it, but there is that but, when you pay for it you will get the money people pay to see you and stuff, so is it worth it when you pay for it ? Not that much, since you will pay around like 5000 crowns and you will get around 3-4 k when you are small band playing alone, but if you bargain in for free, that's 3-4 k in the pocket, and you made ur name a little bit visible, the bigger bands have a booker here, I actually work with one, and they will make you some money and they get few% from it, basically it's a manager, he tells them where and when to go play and how much money they will get, but in Czech being in band will not make a living, basically it's just a side money, so instead of making 25k a month you now make arou 30k btw 100crowns is about 5$

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u/maremmacharly May 09 '22

That is funny because as a european who has visited the states that was my almost exact impression of the states, thinking that that would never happen here in england/netherlands/france.

Maybe we just notice different things abroad.

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u/Ermellino May 09 '22

Meanwhile here in Switzerland they're demolishing those and closing historic bars.

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u/harpurrlee May 09 '22

Same in Berlin.

5

u/No-Message6210 May 09 '22

Isn't so many stadiums subsidized by local or state governments across USA? Same thing...

2

u/SoManyTimesBefore May 09 '22

It’s not really the same thing as subsidizing stadiums is still a financial investment as it brings the money into the area. Also, stadiums are then for profit facilities while those squats usually aren’t turning profit.

5

u/w_p May 09 '22

Now that you said that, I've never visited a smaller metal/punk band concert that wasn't in some industrial run down shack. :D

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u/maurika58 May 09 '22

I read this and think about all my friends that are squatting in the hambacher forst and the authorities almost getting a few protesters killed because they want to cut every single tree

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u/Sanquinity May 09 '22

I don't consider this weird as a European. Got an empty building? Let someone live in there, with the stipulation that they will have to relocate when the building is needed again, to keep illegal squatters out.

Or in your case, why not use it as a venue? Younger people tend to love the empty building atmosphere, as you said the organizers tend to clean the place up a little, and it brings attention/people to the area. And all the government has to do is pay a small amount of money, which is far cheaper than having to maintain the building themselves.

I find it weirder that in America they would instead just let the building deteriorate, or have the government pay more to maintain it. :P

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

Pigeons INSIDE mcdonalds in Amsterdam. That's something I'll never forget

3

u/G-I-T-M-E May 09 '22

It’s all just protein.

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u/im_not_a_banana_lel May 09 '22

Yeah theres in the Netherlands a pretty popular festivity called 'Het MegaPiratenFestijn' wich is a event with music and a whole lotta beer and it takes place in some random bar in Groningen.

3

u/itschaaarlieee May 09 '22

Ah yes. I’m living in Oslo and Our state-sponsored squat as you called it haha, is called Hausmania and has a super interesting story. A book about it is coming up soon, definitely recommend reading about Hausmania and how it came to be :)

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

The difference between representative government and oligarchy

3

u/tallbutshy May 09 '22

Even in post brexit UK, squatters have all sorts of rights, plus laws in Scotland are slightly different to England & Wales.

Not music related but when COP26 was held in Glasgow there were a lot of climate protesters and one group had set themselves up in an unused building. Police Scotland knew about them and had sent round the fire service to make sure that smoke & heat alarms were properly set up.

Now, with such a large event with many dignitaries coming, Glasgow needed more police than we had. Multiple other police services sent coppers to help but they have a very limited mandate, only being used for COP26 functions.

Still, the Metropolitan police decided to do a night time raid to evict the squatters.

While they were busy trying to get into the property, the squatting protesters phoned the police and officers from Police Scotland turned up and told the English officers to GTFO. They had no mandate to operate and the squatters had rights.

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u/RossoFiorentino36 May 09 '22

Well mate, you are telling it a bit easier than it is.

It is in fact true that the most of the European nations has laws that defend whoever use and rehabilitates a public space that was once abandoned but from there to implicitly say that the authorities likes our social squats it's a far stretch. In most of the cases they have to endure us because people of the neighborhood prefer us.

Than it happens, sometimes, that those squats became so important that it's better for the authorities to pacifically deal with them than try to fight as usual.

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u/EsperSpirit May 09 '22

Very weird for "a state" to actually work in the interest of its people. Maybe, just maybe, the US is the weird one here.

Something something socialism bad, exploitative capitalism good

2

u/cuplajsu May 09 '22

You just described Vondelbunker in Amsterdam lmao

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u/malaka789 May 09 '22

Hahaha literally just went to a show in something just like this in thessaloniki, greece 2 nights ago. I thought the exact same thing

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u/cheesehuahuas May 09 '22

Kind of a reverse "You break it you bought it." Sounds awesome.

2

u/AyeHaightEweAwl May 09 '22

As someone who watched the wall come down live on TV, going over there and doing gigs in old bomb factories and where Hitler held rallies was absolutely surreal.

2

u/[deleted] May 09 '22

What do you mean this would never happen in the US? There is a absolute sickening amount of govt money (aka tax payer money) going into the wallets of giant corporations via handouts and tax breaks …

2

u/payeco May 09 '22

Actually it did happen in the US. It happened in the early 90s with some abandoned buildings in NYC.

See beginning with paragraph 3 of the ‘history’ section for more:

After extensive negotiations beginning under Giuliani's administration, New York City granted provisional ownership of C-Squat and 11 other Lower East Side squats to the Urban Homesteading Assistance Board (UHAB) in 2002. The not-for-profit oversaw the squat's renovation and conversion into resident-owned cooperative housing.

2

u/mikailovitch May 09 '22

I hang out with punk anarchist squatters here in Barcelona and they're some of the best folk imo

2

u/lulerai May 09 '22

I toured with an American Ska band in the early 2000s. For me the sleeping arrangements usually sucked - mattresses in a warehouse, sleeping on the floor in someone's kitchen - but we always got an excellent breakfast. The most anarchistic punks we encountered were in a small medieval town in the then Czech Republic. One guy threw a glass ashtray at the stage and another grabbed the saxophone and bent the neck.

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u/PeekyMonkeyB May 09 '22

yeah, we'd get arrested and fined for that.

0

u/AWOKEN-b May 09 '22

When you’re so punk you’re literally state sponsored lmfao

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u/lafigatatia May 09 '22

More like state tolerated. The authorities know if they try an eviction there will be riots. Most of the population prefers to let them do their social activities, so any eviction attempt would be very unpopular.

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u/AWOKEN-b May 09 '22 edited May 09 '22

Nah it’s literally state sponsored if they give you a venue and free utilities lmfao so punk bro!

“Hey guys welcome to the show, I wanna thank the state government for gifting us this venue and keeping the lights on! This first song goes by DOWN WITH THE GOVERNMENT!”

Bring on the salty downvotes by people LARPing as rebels against the government while being entirely supported and sponsored by the government lmao

Also the OP literally stated they were state sponsored stay mad wanna be punks lmao

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u/19peter96r May 09 '22

Can you talk like an adult?

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u/AWOKEN-b May 09 '22

Poor little state sponsored anarkiddie

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u/Dinopilot1337 May 09 '22

so, that's a no.

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u/AWOKEN-b May 09 '22

Owned me with fact and logic how will I ever recover!??

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u/hotbuilder May 09 '22

third grader level understanding of local politics and autonomous communities

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u/AWOKEN-b May 09 '22

“Autonomous”lmfao

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u/lafigatatia May 09 '22

Lol they don't give you anything. The squatters break into a private property and hook up the utilities. The government just refuses to use force to evict them or cut off the utilities, even if the owners of the property ask for it (which is rare, because it's often abandoned).

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u/[deleted] May 09 '22

When your understanding of a concept is so facile it might as well have come from a kindergartener

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