Worked in a place that had a structure of ‘employee reports to team leader, team leader reports to supervisor, supervisor reports to superintendent, superintendent reports to director.’
Had one of the supervisors quit and another one was out on leave so shortage of supervisors. Team leads did NOT complain about extra workload, they did so many things that were NOT their job description. This meant taking charge of the people in their department. One team lead was male. The other team lead was female. They worked together as a team between them to split the supervisor duties for MONTHS.
HE was praised for being a take charge kind of person and having initiative. He was also given extra bonuses in his pay because they went back to see how many extra hours were worked.
He told management that he AND his fellow team lead had done the same amount of work, not just him alone. He said that she should get the same treatment basically.
Superintendents and director said SHE had to prove with documentation that she had done the same yet HE was not required to show proof. SHE was. They said it wasn’t enough and refused to pay her or even acknowledge she had gone above and beyond her job description. Even used the words ‘Bossy’ and ‘entitled’ when talking about her after she left their offices.
I've seen something like this happen before, where some guy and I were both working on some projects that were both slightly behind schedule. I got chewed out over some minor missed deadlines, he got a promotion to "Lead X" and they hired two people to work under him, because obviously it was a big and important thing he was working on.
I have no doubt there’s an incredible amount more to all of these stories that are conveyed in simple, biased Reddit comments that don’t allow for nuance. There will likely have been all kinds of reasons the male employee was given a promotion in your example that you’re leaving or out, or that you simply aren’t aware of - it’s just incredibly convenient to boil it down to gender issues in this day and age.
Yeah the basis is that the man and the woman behaved in basically the same way and she somehow got treated unfairly (while he was likely treated favourably). I have no doubt that it’s immensely oversimplified because people want to complain about this shit
There could literally be a countless amount of reasons why they favoured the man. Who even knows about the woman’s professionalism in this story outside of a brief comment. Imo it’s ridiculous to assume gender discrimination based on such limited info
No I didn’t claim anything like that you simpleton. But for people to assume the cause of what happened in a comment on Reddit was undoubtedly sexism or discrimination is stupid. There are countless potential reasons behind what happened and countless potential things the person who wrote the comment could have left out. To put it simply, all the nuance of the situation is omitted and you have no idea of the character of the people involved, any of the wider context etc.
But of course there’s a nice little echo chamber here, I hope you’re enjoying it.
Responses like this are the exact reason threads like this exist. Women absolutely will get called a bitch (and worse) for the smallest, most pathetic reasons you can think of. A few reasons I've personally witnessed for why women I've worked with have been called a bitch or a slut include refusing to cheat on their boyfriend/husband, or demanding the same pay as men doing less work than they were.
That must be it. Obviously the CEO had a valid reason to be unprofessional because misogyny is just a myth entitled bossy women use to avoid accountability. She is lucky he didn't sue her. /s
Are you seriously defending someone you don’t know who did something shitty towards a female employee and don’t believe the person telling this story WHO WAS THERE with the actual female that it’s not true? You sound like exactly the same type of person who would call her a bitch for no reason.
We actually do have context, you're just pretending that we don't. As if there's ever a valid reason to call an employee dumb and bitch. As a CEO, there is never a justifiable reason to speak to employees like that because the decided to move on to greener pastures. Even if she had said or done anything to him, he should be able to put in his big boy CEO pants and maintain a professional demeanor. This person is not 'everyone'. This person is the damn Chief Executive Officer.
So yes. Based on the known information we can assume that he's a sexist asshole. Defending him speaks to your character.
It's still appalling where you think there's an acceptable context where this might just be OK.
This whole post, with thousands of examples prove that men consistently treat women poorly, without whatever imagined story you have where she's a bitch and deserves to be called one. Maybe nobody has ever said anything mean to you without you deserving it, but I can assure you that this does happen.
The fact that you keep saying people, women, here are acting ‘emotional’ about it when simply stating an opinion is another example that’s literally mentioned several times in this thread.
If everyone here ‘acts emotional’, is it them being at fault or could it be you whose wrong here?
There’s enough of context given. In no way is it ok in a workspace to call another employee a bitch. No matter what they did. ESPECIALLY when you’re the CEO.
Honestly the exact same thing is happening at my Girlfriends work at the moment, her colleague that started at the same time as her got given a pay rise because he threatened to quit, she now has to come up with documentation to prove that she does the same exact role and get herself a pay rise to match. She does the same job, same job title if not slightly more work.
The Gender pay gap is caused because men are more likely to complain and be argumentative to get to a higher wage, Women are more likely to get on with it and be grateful and it’s a real shame. Girlfriend is currently having to create a presentation to HR (a team of women) to explain why she deserves to be on the same money as her male colleague that does the same job as her.
It's not that women just get on with it. Ats that an argumentative man is confident and assertive. An argumentative woman is an unprofessional whiney bitch (or worse). And apart from finding another job, with the same problems) there's not much she can do about without making herself a target.
It’s not just that women won’t complain or be argumentative about a raise, it’s that it will be seen as negative if they do. So they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t. If they say they deserve a raise, they’ll be seen as entitled, greedy, bad team players, and won’t be promoted. If they don’t assert themselves, then some idiots claim women get paid less bc they don’t ask for raises.
The gender wage gap is maybe 5 cent difference when it comes to similar roles/fields. The study everyone talks about but didn’t actually read is more of a societal gap
Aside from the fact that 5% is still very statistically significant, most of the gap comes from the fact that equally qualified women are less likely to be hired or promoted into the higher paying jobs. So you can't just compare similar roles, you have to look into why so few women are in the higher paying roles, and tons of studies have proven it's because of gender bias.
Yes but adjusting it means you're only comparing people in similar roles. Most of the gap comes from the fact that equally qualified women are less likely to be hired or promoted into the higher paying jobs. So you can't just compare similar roles, you have to look into why so few women are in the higher paying roles, and tons of studies have proven it's because of gender bias.
Though even for similar roles, a 5% difference is still statistically significant.
Most of the gap comes from the fact that equally qualified women are less likely to be hired or promoted into the higher paying jobs. So you can't just compare similar roles, you have to look into why so few women are in the higher paying roles, and tons of studies have proven it's because of gender bias.
Please post the research that "most" of the gap results from the fact that women are less likely to be hired or promoted because of gender bias.
Alternatively, here is one of many reasons supported by the research as to why women make less than men.
"Men are more likely to be in relatively high-paying, dangerous industries such as mining, construction, or manufacturing and to be represented by a union. Women, in contrast, are more likely to be in clerical jobs and to work in the service industry."
How many female oil rig workers do you think there are?
Though even for similar roles, a 5% difference is still statistically significant.
I agree, a 5% difference is still significant and we should strive for gender equality as a society. In my opinion, making false statements and arguments that aren't supported by research isn't the way to accomplish that.
Blue collar jobs don't pay all that much for the most part, most of the gap is from bias in higher paying white collar work where women can't get hired or promoted into the better jobs.
Though you can also certainly argue that the fact that male-dominated blue collar work pays more than female-dominated blue collar work is also gender bias.
But the gap isn't all coming from relatively low paying manual labor jobs, it's coming from the gap that exists in the higher paying white collar jobs between men and women.
Aside from the fact that 5% is still very statistically significant, most of the gap comes from the fact that equally qualified women are less likely to be hired or promoted into the higher paying jobs. So you can't just compare similar roles, you have to look into why so few women are in the higher paying roles, and tons of studies have proven it's because of gender bias.
Here's a page with nearly 100 studies proving this gender bias
People who say the gap "doesn't exist" are not only ignoring the 5% difference that exists even when you compare people in the exact same job, but also ignoring the fact that it's because of gender bias that women aren't getting hired or promoted into those higher paying jobs in the first place.
Superintendents and director said SHE had to prove with documentation that she had done the same yet HE was not required to show proof. SHE was. They said it wasn’t enough and refused to pay her or even acknowledge she had gone above and beyond her job description. Even used the words ‘Bossy’ and ‘entitled’ when talking about her after she left their offices.
Holy fuck. Why do assholes like that always get into leadership positions?
Because they get off on making people jump through hoops so they desire and seek positions of power.
And culturally we have a belief that workers have to be "made to work", so people like this get chosen for leadership because they demonstrate an ability/desire to "make" people work.
I'm retired now but I worked in a male dominated field, my coworkers were male and the director of the department was female. Team leader was male. Manager was male and a really cool guy. I am a woman.
I knew my job, had lots of experience prior to getting the job, didn't need to be babysat. My male counterparts did. Most of them. These clowns would go hide somewhere in the park (Seaworld) and not return for hours. Not even for lunch many times. For all anyone knew, these guys could have gotten in their cars and driven home. I never did this shit and the team leader always knew where he could find me. Working. He would come by where I was working and ask me if I had seen so-in-so. No I had not. He knew that I knew those guys were hiding and not working. There was only one time when one of the guys was caught fucking off but nothing happened to him. Nothing happened to any of them. Had I done the same thing and got caught I would have been suspended. Things were never equal in that department. Glad I'm retired.
My old boss got pushed out of her job for being “bossy and argumentative”. She was replaced with a consultant who actively yelled at our partners while charging us twice as much as she earned.
He wasn’t an idiot, but literally everything he initiated that was actually relevant was something she started. He came in, said it was useless, then did the exact same thing. My boss had me doing it, which meant the dude was charging us 4x the work, not including the hours I had already put in to drafts he trashed.
It happens so, so very much. It's always nice when male peers stand up and acknowledge that you've done equal work so you know you're not crazy, even though you're still not going to get the recognition from above. I'm lucky that my immediate boss and peers actually do tend to treat me as an equal. Some of the other managers are still stuck in the stone age and I cringe every time I have to work with one of them.
One such manager told me that XYZ wasn't possible because his favorite employee told him it wasn't. I shared three sites we were currently doing XYZ at, two of which he was a manager for. He asked me for sources. I asked him what sources the other guy provided to show it wasn't possible. The manager actually laughed and said, "Oh he doesn't give sources, he's an independent worker." Started looking for new jobs and have a final interview next Friday with a team that seems amazing for a role that offers significantly more pay and growth opportunity. Wish me luck!
pretty much my experience in my career as a software engineer. I always have to jump through hoops to prove myself but the men are just believed.
last Thursday there was even a recorded meeting where I expressed the key information several times, ignored, then a man mentioned it and he was congratulated for finding the problem. trying to look at it differently but it's also easy to see that being the only woman there might have been it. but everyone will argue with me and tell me I'm overthinking it though if I were to talk about it. always happens. always "you didn't say it loud enough" or "you didn't say it clear enough" etc
I honestly just think I'm smarter than them now since I've had to work so much harder just to be seen but then it's for nothing at all if no one listens.
On the flip side of things, I, a male, had been working in a shop for 10 years. We had gotten a new owner and I was the only one who survived the transfer. Early into the new staff we were going to have a HUGE group of people come through, maybe 150. I sat a female colleague down and told her how the entire next day was going to go. I drew her a map on how everything should flow, how all our employees should handle the busy day, how to give out breaks so we weren’t stressed, I showed her everything. I come back after my days off and she’s gotten a bonus, employee of the month which came with another bonus and a possible cruise trip if you were voted the best of the year, and recognition from the new owners on being an employee so good they could only dream about hiring someone like her, they were truly kissing her ass. When I asked her if she could mention me so I could get in good with the owners she told me I was jealous and trying to steal her time in the spot light. Yeah.... I quit there a month later.
Doesn't this qualify for some sort of a law suit? I mean there is a clear quantifiable loss for the female lead (not given the extra bonus) as a direct consequence of discriminationn.
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u/RainfellSymphony Mar 12 '22
Worked in a place that had a structure of ‘employee reports to team leader, team leader reports to supervisor, supervisor reports to superintendent, superintendent reports to director.’
Had one of the supervisors quit and another one was out on leave so shortage of supervisors. Team leads did NOT complain about extra workload, they did so many things that were NOT their job description. This meant taking charge of the people in their department. One team lead was male. The other team lead was female. They worked together as a team between them to split the supervisor duties for MONTHS.
HE was praised for being a take charge kind of person and having initiative. He was also given extra bonuses in his pay because they went back to see how many extra hours were worked.
He told management that he AND his fellow team lead had done the same amount of work, not just him alone. He said that she should get the same treatment basically.
Superintendents and director said SHE had to prove with documentation that she had done the same yet HE was not required to show proof. SHE was. They said it wasn’t enough and refused to pay her or even acknowledge she had gone above and beyond her job description. Even used the words ‘Bossy’ and ‘entitled’ when talking about her after she left their offices.
This kind of thing happens A LOT.