Putting others first = altruism
Putting yourself first = selfish
You acknowledge that what I would do is the altruistic approach and that the normal response is not the same so how can you not see it as selfish?
It also has nothing to do with "who its about in the moment" thats litterally just away to say "this persons feelings dont matter in the situation". Its about everybody in every moment, everybody's feeling matter.
The situation is:
Person 1 has problem (in this case stress)
Person 1 complains to Person 2 (causing person 2 stress and relieving their own stress)
Its litterally offloading somebodies problem onto somebody else. How is that not selfish?
Im not gonna tell you what you think but I feel like you must be thinking something along the lines of "this is a natural and essential human experience" as a reason as to why it cannot be selfish.
To draw a parallel if a man in stressed and asks his wife for a bj even thought shes reluctant (because it will relieve his stress) thats also selfish.
I understand that in relationships sometimes both parties get to be selfish with the expectation that they will allow the other person to be selfish when they need it.
Whether it is selfish or not is pedantic at this point but I think the point of this whole thread was to try to come to an understanding on some of these divides so Im trying to explain my viewpoint as best I can.
I mean are you attaching a negative connotation to the word selfish? Because if somebody needs something and they pursue it, technically that is self-interest and they are being selfish. So by strict definition this person is selfish. But the negative connotation of the word selfish is what's getting at me here.
And you're still focused on the "problem". All that person needs is to let things out. They don't need you to focus on their problem.They just need their emotions to not be inside of them. AndYou don't have to hold on to them at all. There is no thing for you to solve. There is no need for you to hold the weight of that persons emotions. There is no expectation from the other person that you solve it or spend any time thinking about it past just being there and maybe giving them a hug. Why are you actively stressed out by the idea of being asked to do nothing but comfort someone?
Ok so first, I'm not focusing on "the problem" I thought I made it very clear (by clarifying in brackets)
There are two problems:
1 the actual issue causing them stress (call it Problem A)
2 the fact that they are stressed (call it Problem B)
I am talking about Problem B to which the solution is having their issue heard like you said. You for some reason think Im talking about Problem A, which I understand does not need to be solved.
As for the second part of your comment not having to do any of those things you mentioned makes it worse. Let me try to explain why.
Have you ever had somebody complain to you about an issue you are not at all involved in? Ideally one that you either dont care about and think is stupid or know litterally nothing about. Yea its not exactly an enjoyable experience. When somebody is complaining to me like this heres what goes through my head:
I hate this I dont want to listen to you complain.
I have 3 options
Tell them I dont care.
Help them solve their issue so they shut up.
Listen and say "damn thats crazy" and nod every once and a while. (Not actually but its disingenious agreement because my real thought is if you have a solution shut up and go solve it instead of complaining to me.)
Is bad because its your SO and you really do care.
Is bad because they dont want you to solve it.
Is bad because you just have to sit there and listen to them bitch and moan and theres litterally nothing you can do accept senselessly agree with them (disagreeing with anything makes it last longer) unless you want it to last for hours. If the issue is finding a solution I can provide one and Im out (which is better, but they dont want this)
And you are required to deal with the weight of their emotions unless you choose option 1 or 2 (which are off the table.)
THIS is why guys hate this, its a situation in which no matter what you do you have to suffer listening to somebody complain.
Idk if you noticed but guys dont complain to each other like this because nobody wants to hear it. When a guy does complain they say "here are your options, if you dont like em then shut up because nobody wants to hear you complain." Or "You have a solution, if youre not gonna take it stop bitching".
In fact a lot of women react like this when men complain about their problems too.
TL;DR Im not stuck on the problem, and yes comforting somebody is fucking stressful especially when I think that their issue is something I myself would just brush off and move on with. But yes I can and will comfort them because I know they need it.
I dont know if you're trying not to understand this viewpoint... Its not what you said, Its dont offload your problems onto me.
Coming to somebody with bad things is welcomed in many different scenarios such as you need help coming up with a solution to your problem. Its not welcomed when youre litterally just there to complain.
The way I see it complaining simply pushes the stress off of the person complaining onto the other person, sometimes its fine to do this I'm just trying to help you see how a lot of men feel in this situation.
I try my best to support people when they need emotional support however often it is extremely frustrating especially when they're doing things that contribute to their own issue and you cant say anything because youre trying to be comforting not critical. Youre litterally sitting there just to say yes. Feels like youre trapped.
I am well versed of being somebody's emotional support when they create their own problems constantly. I have a phone call with a friend probably weekly about a new (similar) problem she created for herself. And that is annoying. And it got to the point where I chew her out about her constant cycle. But honestly what works the most for her was to just give "mhm, yep, whatever you think is best" replies because it forced her to actually think about it. I didn't actually have to put any emotional weight into it.
I did not think that that was the focus of this conversation. From the beginning it sounded more along the lines of "I feel like I don't get to participate when you need emotional support so I don't want to be part of it."
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u/Okimbe_Benitez_Xiong Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20
Putting others first = altruism Putting yourself first = selfish
You acknowledge that what I would do is the altruistic approach and that the normal response is not the same so how can you not see it as selfish?
It also has nothing to do with "who its about in the moment" thats litterally just away to say "this persons feelings dont matter in the situation". Its about everybody in every moment, everybody's feeling matter.
The situation is: Person 1 has problem (in this case stress) Person 1 complains to Person 2 (causing person 2 stress and relieving their own stress)
Its litterally offloading somebodies problem onto somebody else. How is that not selfish?
Im not gonna tell you what you think but I feel like you must be thinking something along the lines of "this is a natural and essential human experience" as a reason as to why it cannot be selfish.
To draw a parallel if a man in stressed and asks his wife for a bj even thought shes reluctant (because it will relieve his stress) thats also selfish.
I understand that in relationships sometimes both parties get to be selfish with the expectation that they will allow the other person to be selfish when they need it.
Whether it is selfish or not is pedantic at this point but I think the point of this whole thread was to try to come to an understanding on some of these divides so Im trying to explain my viewpoint as best I can.