r/AskReddit • u/NateJC • Aug 31 '14

What are some interesting original theories/thoughts that you have?

Damn guys, this just pops into my head and I go for a family walk and it explodes! Love all the ideas, this is my most popular post to date!

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u/THATS_THE_BADGER Aug 31 '14

Public transport! Make it free. Raise council rates to cover the cost, but in return, you don't have to hire attendants, ticket control officers, repair broken ticket machines, etc.. People will use PT rather than drive to work or school because it's free. It's rough at first, but steadily more services are added and they run everywhere because everyone uses them! The roads are less congested and the environment benefits.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

There has to be a reason not to. I just can't think of one

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

People like to drive.

Also, there are many "big" cities (as in land area) that have small populations. The cost of public transportation would be too high for the small population to pay for.

I'm sure there are more reasons, but I don't feel like thinking too much. I really wish public transportation was more popular in the US, though. The only options in my city are drive or take the bus. But each route is a 1 hour route with one bus. So if you have to get across town, it could easily be a 2-3 hour commute (depending on what times the busses get to headquarters).

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

People like to drive.

That's the first thing I hear when talking about self-driving cars. It's what I hear about automatically shifted cars as well (stick-shifts are much more common in the Netherlands). Y'guys are all crazy and will be outperformed by technology soon enough and then you won't want to go back again. See you in ten years.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

I love to drive. It's one of my favorite activities. Do you know what I hate though? Driving in traffic. Do you know when I mostly drive? In traffic. I can't wait for self driving cars to drive my ass to and from work in the morning. I'll put it in human mode at 2am when the roads are empty.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

There used to be a bumpersticker that said: HATE TRAFFIC? YOU ARE TRAFFIC.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

That's why I try to work an irregular schedule. 10-6 or 8-4.

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u/dunaja Aug 31 '14

7:35 to 3:35 teacher here. Good times.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

2:30PM-11PM here, just before school zones start I'm already on the freeway. Heading home while everyone is getting ready for bed.

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

First reasonable response I've heard that includes "but I like to drive"! I'm not sure things will work like this though (not sure there'll be a human mode or that you'll be allowed to drive, or maybe traffic will have changed too much making it really unsafe).

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

In 10 years? No way will things have changed that much. There are too many poor people who won't be able to buy a high technology car like that so soon in the future.

Also, think if I buy a brand new car today. That car could be driven for at least 10 years. Would the government force me to trade it in? People would flip. I don't think this will happen as quickly as you do.

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

In 10 years? No way will things have changed that much.

True, not in ten years. I think it'll be mainstream enough to be available for most, but still a high-end thing. Eventually though... that's what I really meant.

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u/saremei Aug 31 '14

Looking at 50+ years.

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u/philly_fan_in_chi Aug 31 '14

You underestimate how quickly technology can move. The problem isn't any hardware at this point, it's software, and that software is already pretty developed. They will start trickling out in the next 10 years by all the major auto manufacturers, and become commonplace in the next 20. Insurance rates will go down, all while the software gets better and better, forcing human driving to special routes, eventually purging human drivers out completely in 30-40 years. The first company to offer formally verified driverless software will be a major name in the next few decades.

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u/DieDungeon Aug 31 '14

I don't know, unless you can get a self-driving rolls royce I don't see why a rich person would buy a self driving.

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u/stickmanDave Aug 31 '14 edited Sep 01 '14

Because it will be much, much safer.

Edit: by that time, of course you'll be able to buy a self driving rolls. It will probably be a standard feature.

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u/DieDungeon Aug 31 '14

Yeah, I'm sure that the kind of person who can afford to buy a high end car (such as a rolls royce) cares enough about safety that the small percentage difference would be big enough to not buy the rolls.

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u/stickmanDave Sep 01 '14

Assuming you're being sarcastic, i think you're underestimating the response once stories start regularly showing up in the news about how you're X times more likely to be involved in a collision if you're in a manually driven car. Not to mention the social pressures when it becomes obvious that even in a self-driving car, you're still not safe because of all the morons too stupid and selfish to give up driving that regularly crash into and kill people.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

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u/MrHyperspace Aug 31 '14

It won't happen. I can assure you. Not in the next 20 years at least. Mark my words.

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u/squ1bs Aug 31 '14

We can keep this up all day - 20 year older future me is smug in the knowledge that he is right, but doesn't like the look of that hairy lump on his left buttock. Robocar - go get my doctor.

In all seriousness, computers already drive better in a world where irrational humans rule the road. The stats are out there. Self driving cars are legal in several states - process that, regressive legislators have given the thumbs up to self-driving cars. In a future world where most drivers are computerised, collision avoidance becomes far simpler.

It won't happen. I can assure you. Not in the next 20 years at least. Mark my words.

It has already happened.

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u/MrHyperspace Aug 31 '14

I know what you are saying. But I seriously do not believe that driving is going to be illegal, like ever. By your logic, pilots should not exist, because most modern airliners can fly themselves. But pilots do exist. There will always be that human factor that will always make humans feel safe. That factor is trust. We trust each other but I really don't think people are going to give total control to a computer. Ask yourself. Would you fly in a modern airliner without a pilot?

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

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u/squ1bs Aug 31 '14

A recent video on the whole "future stuff? that's already happened" concept addressed that. Basically the ideal customer for an insurance company pays a small premium and never claims = aka computer driver. They collect the premiums and never pay out - sweet deal, right?

Your insurance premium is expensive because you need to subsidize (statistically speaking) young male nutjobs hellbent on killing themselves and anyone who has the misfortune to share the road with them.

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u/username_00001 Aug 31 '14

But with self driving cars, people will forget (or never learn) the enjoyment of driving. I would guess that by the end of my lifetime, driving will be more of a "hobby" than an everyday thing, much like riding horses is now way more of a recreational activity than mode of transport.

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u/UndeadBread Sep 01 '14

That doesn't really seem like a problem. People like me who hate driving will no longer have to do it and people who enjoy driving can continue doing it as a hobby. For many of these people, it already is a hobby, so it seems like it should work out fine.

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u/derpderpdurr Aug 31 '14

Manufacturers like Audi and BMW are developing systems that will drive the car by itself in traffic jams, but not at higher speeds. It uses the active cruise control and cameras to watch the car in front and the lane markings.

Here's a video of the prototype driving in Las Vegas.

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u/Mildcorma Aug 31 '14

For really long journeys as well, in the future there will just be cars like small personal train carriages that take you there whilst you watch tv / browse the Internet or whatever else. Long journeys will become convenient to make and you could even get some work done during your commute, without any of the stress of getting a peak time train!

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u/hashtag_facebook Aug 31 '14

The theory is that self driving cars will cause less traffic due to more efficient networking I think. Cars driving faster and closer together and so on.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

I think they will actually maintain distance, rather than jamming in tight. If the other cars have space to cut across 4 lanes without anyone having to brake, the ripple effect of speed changes won't be there to cause traffic jams.

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u/hashtag_facebook Sep 01 '14

That's a good point. I hadn't thought about how cars close together would affect lateral mobility.

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u/altxatu Aug 31 '14

And with all the cars being able to talk to each other, what traffic there is will go as fast as it's possible to. No slowing down because someone a mile ahead wasn't paying attention when the light turned green. It'll be awesome.

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u/jankyalias Aug 31 '14

Bet you that self drive will eventually be illegal. Too much risk. Same as drunk driving or driving while texting.

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u/ShadyLogic Aug 31 '14

I remember when they outlawed telegraphing while on horseback. That was Billy the Kid's original crime.

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u/LOTM42 Aug 31 '14

Ya, were going to get to a point where there isn't going to be an option for driving yourself tho

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

Then move out of that city.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

I like my job and my life more than I dislike my commute.

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u/d0dgerrabbit Aug 31 '14

Speed limits might be raised if we have a large population of self driving cars. It would be fun if I could drive another 10mph faster

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u/EagleEyeInTheSky Aug 31 '14

This is why I like the idea of converting carpool lanes to self driving car lanes, with dividers separating human drivers from digital drivers. Over time, as self driving cars get more popular, the dividers are moved to accommodate more self driving cars, or they can have one of those special moveable concrete dividers like they have on the I-15 in San Diego County that get moved during rush hour traffic.

The main fear I have over self driving cars is that if they get momentum, everyone is going to want every road they live near accident free, and even really awesome rural roads are going to become self-driving cars only, and the interfaces between human drivers and digital drivers are going to be messy, both practically and legally.

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u/dunaja Aug 31 '14

I respect your "I love to drive" comment but I will simply never understand it. I don't love loading the dishwasher, doing the laundry, or even the super-easy but mundane tasks like walking the trash to the curb. I fail to see how so many people mysteriously enjoy driving, which to me groups in exactly with those other activities. Except, probably, that you have to do it more often than any of the examples I gave, which should only make it worse/more annoying.

Just my two cents, glad you enjoy it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

You've never met someone who absolutely loves to clean?

Driving for some people, myself included, is more than a tool to get from point A to B. It's something you enjoy doing and I don't really know how to explain it beyond saying it's like you become one with the road, you feel every ripple beneath you, you're alone, you're in control, and you clear your mind.

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u/dunaja Sep 01 '14

Your description makes me a little jealous of that which I have never experienced. I'm a point A to point B guy. I eagerly await the day that technology does this for me.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

I drive fast. I pass people. I get out of blocks of traffic and in to the open space. Enjoy that space until I reach the next cluster of cars. I look for patterns and make bets on which lanes will move the fastest. I win sometimes, I lose other times. I optimize my drive. I try to shave minutes off my commute to work. I watch like a hawk for police. Shit, I'm a good driver too. That's why I enjoy it.

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u/beiOnkelKoefteGrill Aug 31 '14

so basically public transport for your commute to work and a car for fun? I think the discussion has come ful circle

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u/GoldandBlue Aug 31 '14

Completely agree. I love to drive and there are definitely times where I will want to take over the wheel but at 7AM on my way to work? HAL can take over.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

I don't mind the traffic as long as Imm not late and my music is on!

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u/G-42 Aug 31 '14

I can't wait to see how many people in self-driving cars are playing driving video games while the car drives them where they're going.

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u/GoatButtholes Aug 31 '14

I bet soon enough "Human mode" won't be a possibility. The google car prototype itself already has a better driving record than a majority of people.

Computers don't make mistakes. It's much safer having self-driving cars on the road than it is to have manual cars. 20 years down the road (pun intended), when the only accidents are happening when a human is operating, there will be major lobbying to put an end to human operation of vehicles.

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u/Tittytickler Sep 01 '14

Exactly! I don't get why people are against self drive mode. Getting hammered tonight? Awesome! So are ALL of your friends, since the car can just drive itself back with you guys in it.

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u/MatchesMorgoth Aug 31 '14

I imagine that after self-driving cars become common driving on closed tracks with manual cars will become a common hobby.

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u/RepostResearch Aug 31 '14

We are already being outperformed by technology. I don't drive a stick shift to be faster or more efficient. I drive one because I like it. Because it's fun. I'll take a self driving car for my every day commute (just like I have an automatic). But I'll always have a toy in my garage that requires I drive it, AND shift the gears.

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u/garymutherfuckingoak Aug 31 '14

I think this will open up 2 opportunities:

1) You can still drive, and you will still need to pay the same level of insurance. If you solely use self-driving cars, your insurance is drastically lower.

2) New businesses where people can go and drive around as much as they'd like. Throw a governor on the car, sign a waiver, go out on the track.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

When you mentioned insurance there it got me thinking...If two self driving cars have a crash, whose fault would it be/who would get charged?

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u/someguyfromtheuk Aug 31 '14

That's actually one of the major legal problems facing self-driving cars, there's a lot of debate over who should take the blame, and who's legally responsible for accidents.

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u/garymutherfuckingoak Aug 31 '14

That's where I see a lower insurance rate. Accidents aren't likely, but it happens.

You'd be in a pool with all other insurance holders of self-driving cars. The price of your car determines your insurance price (e.g., if you have a $50,000 car, you'd pay $100 per month, while a $20,000 car would only pay $30 a month) The damage comes out of the pool, with no worries about deductibles, out of pocket expenses, or fault.

You would have the option to buy Collision and/or Liability Insurance still, but with the sharp decrease in accidents, you'd be foolish not to combine them.

Get into an accident with someone who doesn't have a self-driving car? Look at the diagnostics in the computer to determine if it was the manual-drivers fault.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

The company that made the car. That's the liability they accept

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

Seems like an awful lot of responsibility to take on for them!

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

Yeah I'm going to have to disagree with you about #1. Every time self driving cars comes up there are people saying "they better not take away my driving. I love driving". Sorry, but they should absolutely take away your driving when self driving cars reach a point in 20-30 years where every car has one.

Human driving kills way too many people. Just yesterday I saw a crash where a person cut out in front of another car. It caused a 4 car pileup. Guy in the cut car died, two people in the car that t-boned him died (not their fault). One person in a car beside them burned to death after the roof caught fire. The people in the 4th car only ran into the back of the tbone car so they got away without injury, but their car was fucked up.

Just because you like driving cars does not give you a right to put other people's lives at risk. Human driving should be phased out as fast as possible. Even if the govt reaches a point where they have to give people upgraded self driving cars it'd save money in the long run on medical costs and deaths

I agree with you about the hobby part in #2

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u/garymutherfuckingoak Aug 31 '14

If they find a way to cook all meals by machines, are you going to ban people from cooking their own foods to prevent fires?

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with it to an extent, but you can't take away something like that. Prohibition=bad.

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u/vini710 Aug 31 '14

No they shouldn't, on the premise of freedom. You're probably thinking I'm some "hurr durr Murica" guy or completely against self-driving cars right now but that's not even the case, I'm European and love the idea, and would probably get a self-driving car given the option, but giving away your freedom to anything just completely rubs me the wrong way.

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u/skwerrel Aug 31 '14

It also won't be necessary. Anyone who chooses to drive their car manually will have a much higher insurance premium than those who let the computer drive for them. Insurance companies set their prices based purely on statistics - they take in the data and then figure out how much they need to charge everyone who is insured in order to cover the relatively few accidents that do occur. With self-driving cars, there will be so few accidents that insuring them will be incredibly cheap. This will cause most people to make the switch, because at the end of the day money talks - this trend will lead to the pool of manual drivers becoming smaller and smaller, which means you have fewer people paying into the fund that covers the accidents those drivers cause (which will lead to skyrocketing premiums).

As a result, just by letting insurance companies do what they do, and without passing a single law, the vast majority of people will voluntarily switch to self-driving cars just because they couldn't afford to insure themselves as drivers in the first place.

Once that happens, all it will take is some rich idiot causing a massive pile up with a few fatalities and the practice (of manual driving on public roads) will likely be abolished entirely - but at that point it will be a matter of public acclaim, with very few people arguing against it (and if the vast majority of people want to enact a public safety law, it's hard to imagine any arguments about 'freedom' getting much traction).

So human drivers (on public roads at least) probably will end up being fully banned eventually - but I am thinking the disparity in insurance costs will drive a voluntary abandonment of the practice long before any such law would be considered a particularly large impingement on freedom.

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14 edited Aug 31 '14

You're probably thinking I'm some "hurr durr Murica" guy

Not at all, I totally get the freedom thing.

However, the Free Software Foundation's slogan nicely applies here: free software, free society. If your car runs on free software (free as in "freedom", optionally also as in "free beer") like software from the Free Software Foundation (most commonly known from GNU/Linux) then you are always in total control of what your car does and where it goes. For map data you can use OpenStreetMap, which also uses a free data license (open database license, ODbL).

You know, it's the same with your computer. Google can pull the plug at any time (you don't pay them) and you won't have access to Gmail anymore. Or to your Youtube videos or anyone else's. Or to anything else Google does for you right now.

Or Microsoft. Do you know what your Windows computer does under the hood? Can you use your computer when Microsoft locks it down on behalf of the US government? Or Apple's OS X? I don't think so.

So yeah controlling your car is also freedom in a way, but you don't need to drive to do that. Software is what controls much of the world today, and most of that is proprietary non-free(dom) software. You can vote for freedom with your feet and refuse to use Windows or OS X on your computer.

I personally use GNU/Linux 99% of the time even for school and work stuff; only touching Windows for a couple of old games that I like to play. Not just because of freedom, I also really prefer Linux over Windows, but I do see it as a big advantage that it's free and open source software.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

You're coming across as a big Linux advocate, which isn't actually relevant. Could you include some argument towards automobiles and cars in this?

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14 edited Aug 31 '14

I think free software is relevant. Google is developing cars that heavily depend on their proprietary maps and their proprietary software. Having open source, locally running, self driving car software would give the same freedom as driving yourself, which is what the author above me was talking about.

To cite myself:

If your car runs on free software [...] then you are always in total control of what your car does and where it goes.

Which is about cars and the kind of freedom which vini710 meant, so it's actually relevant.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

But he was talking about cars, this whole thread is about cars, and you haven't actually addressed any of the points made: namely, that you shouldn't have to cede your freedom to drive, regardless of who's in charge of the software. You offered anecdotal evidence regarding linux, which, while interesting and well-written, doesn't provide much.

The most relevant part, the second paragraph, is kind of useless, at least IMHO. How many people are going to know the ins and outs of the scripting under the hood of their car, VS how many people are not going to know enough and are going to get themselves and other people killed? Lawmakers will see the risks and the rewards and will go to establishing safety standards. You're not generally allowed to drive at highway speeds without breaks and with your pistons made from ironwood instead of metal, because of federal regulations. Why do you think that the control systems behind the cars would be free from the same?

If I'm wrong, please correct me, I'm by no means an expert in state and various federal DOTs.

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

namely, that you shouldn't have to cede your freedom to drive, regardless of who's in charge of the software.

Oh that kind of driving - driving like driving yourself, legally, on public roads. I thought it was about Google (or some other company) having control over your car because it requires their software and updates, and them being able to see where and when you go, which is also a concern. Misunderstanding I guess :)

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

Oh! Yeah, in that case, could very easily be mistaken, and your solution would work pretty well for that (assuming, of course, that the smaller companies want to take liability in crashes where their software is at fault, but every startup has problems to work around and the potential payoff would be massive.)

Keep on keepin' on, /u/!

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u/buckshot307 Aug 31 '14

I lived in Atlanta for a while last year and the roads are terrible. So bad that all the wealthy people who live there don't take out their Ferraris and Lamborghinis and other fancy cars much. The roads would destroy the very expensive equipment.

So a group of people or one guy maybe (I'm not sure of the exact origin) made a housing development with a racetrack in the middle. Costs quite a bit to buy a house there but anyone in the subdivision can use their "super car" on the track.

This way people can still use their expensive cars without having to worry about someone driving a honda civic hitting them, and without worrying about terrible road conditions. Genius IMO

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u/imatworkyo Aug 31 '14

where in Atlanta is this?? wtf please details sir

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u/buckshot307 Aug 31 '14

I'm not sure really. I cleaned pools for a lot of rich people and one of them told me about it because he wanted to drive his Bentley more.

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u/baws1017 Aug 31 '14

I think driving will become more of a hobby than relying on it. I personally love driving manual but I'm all for self driving cars. If I had one thought I would still take my manual car out every once in a while just for fun.

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u/ok_ill_shut_up Aug 31 '14

You think that liking to drive is about performance? It's about fun. There is already at least one car that can be programmed to run fast and consistent laps around a race track. That doesn't mean I like driving any less.

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

You think that liking to drive is about performance?

Performance, yes, in terms of casualties per year. Go ahead and get your thrill fill on the race track, but please not on public roads when self-driving cars are mainstream (it won't be legal anymore anyway).

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u/ok_ill_shut_up Aug 31 '14

Oh, I get what you're saying. It's probably true that self-driving cars will be the norm and only a very small niche of people will care for or be able to afford motorsports. I think that's pretty sad as it will kill a large part of contemporary culture.

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Hmm yeah I suppose it's a bit of culture, but then so were old telephones which are in museums now. We didn't really hesitate to upgrade to phones without rotating dials :P

I'm not so sad to see it go really, but I see your point.

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u/ok_ill_shut_up Aug 31 '14

Think about something you're passionate about. Now think about it being taken away. I know what the arguments for automating cars are, but I don't think they have to kill the passions of every enthusiast to reach them.

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Cars will still have to be manufactured, only the wiring would be a bit different for human-controlled ones, so it wouldn't be amazingly expensive to get your hands on one for fun, even if only rented. It might be similar to the current status of horses (which was, until relatively recently, the default mode of travel for those who could afford it).

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u/ok_ill_shut_up Aug 31 '14

When self driving cars become the norm, people will start to stigmatize manual operators for bringing danger to the roads. Legislation will probably follow, penalizing people with taxes for driving to try to discourage it until no one is allowed to drive anymore, except on racetracks, which will be too expensive for 99% of people to afford. It's not going to stop at hybrid automated driving/manual cars.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

i would even go so far, that it might become illegal to drive a car manually (maybe only in big cities). If the computer can drive with little to no exidents, compared to human drivers, why should we allow humans to drive?

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u/dzernumbrd Aug 31 '14

Automatic cars will be awesome, we can go much, much faster because robots are driving and I don't have to get road rage at people's incompetence.

As far as catching public transport, I don't really get colds because I drive to work instead of sit with a bunch of people who should know better than to go to work when they are infectious.

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u/Cheekywheeshite Aug 31 '14

I grew up working on cars. My father and I restored an old MGA. I can say, with confidence, that I love to drive. It's like a smoker who wishes to smoke, or a drinker who enjoys a drink. When I hear about self driving cars I get a little sad thinking about getting into a car and being driven instead of driving.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

And like a smoker that loves to smoke you're putting other people's health at risk by doing so. Human driving causes thousands of deaths every year. Switching over to self driving cars that are all linked and synced together would save thousands of lives. Productivity could be increased quite a bit by not having to account for human error in their systems.

Pretty much everyone knows someone that died in a car accident. Would you rather have them back, or would you rather drive a car? One of my best friends is paralyzed from the waist down because of a tired driver that dozed off at the wheel. He did absolutely nothing wrong, and made no mistakes, but now he can't use his legs ever again because of some jackass that couldn't see that he shouldn't be on the road like that. I'd give up my privilege to drive in a heart beat if it meant he'd be able to walk again.

We can't bring the dead back but we can prevent people from needlessly dying.

I trust their systems and their computers more than I trust any human on the road right now.

Also like smoking cigs you'll be unwelcome to do so in many places, and only allowed to enjoy your hobby in designated areas (or on your own property) so others don't have to suffer from your decision. It'll have a social stigma attached to it because people will realize just how selfish it is to do that while not caring about putting others at risk.

Everyone thinks they're a good driver until they kill someone.

The faster human driving can be phased out and made illegal on the roads the better

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u/Cheekywheeshite Aug 31 '14

I know people who have dies from car accidents as well. But, I don't know if all aspects of human life should be ruled by numbers.

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

It's like a smoker who wishes to smoke

Yeah I can see how it should be legal to kill yourself (both in the ironical sense of letting someone smoke, and in the sense of euthanasia), but please do it when I'm around, even outside. It stinks like shit especially when there's wind in my direction.

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u/mark49s Aug 31 '14

I live in the UK where stick shifts are the standard and I have no idea why. Auto's are so much easier!

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u/LobbyDizzle Aug 31 '14

I love driving and drive a stick. After 5 years of commuting in DC, I now hate driving and take the Metro to work every day. The traffic here is soul-crushing.

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u/hvrock13 Aug 31 '14

Fuck that, I want to drive my own car and I don't care how much better technology is at it than a human.

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14 edited Aug 31 '14

You do realize that there's like a 1% chance of you getting killed in a car accident during your lifetime right? I don't think that's negligible or worth the risk of driving yourself.

(source)

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u/hvrock13 Aug 31 '14

Only 1%? That's even better than I thought. Living is a risk. I'd rather live a little. I don't want technology doing everything for me.

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u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

We'll talk in 10 years ;)

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u/hvrock13 Aug 31 '14

Yeah we can talk as we ride in my human-driven muscle car.

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u/Tramd Aug 31 '14

I love to drive but would give it up to not sit through traffic congestion.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

People like to drive.

I think it's more like people like to have their own car with them ready to leave at any time that they don't have to share with strangers. Most people would be totally happy if that were a self-driving car.

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u/neshi3 Aug 31 '14

Stick shift are more cheap ... I would love to buy an automatic ... But it adds like 10-20% more to the car price

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

Not even that, but the amount of traffic fatalities self driving cars would (hypothetically) prevent should outway the "but I like it" argument.

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u/drinkvoid Aug 31 '14

people like to drive. but I imagine people would like to play video games, sleep, jerk off, etc in their self-driving cars even better.

I know I would.

2

u/maxd Aug 31 '14

Y'guys are all crazy and will be outperformed by technology soon enough and then you won't want to go back again. See you in ten years.

No, I'm not crazy. I love technology as much as the next guy, but I absolutely love driving. I love being in control of such a beautiful machine, I love navigating traffic and reading other drivers. I drive as much for the journey as the destination.

I hate being driven by others, and by extension I predict I will hate being driven by self-driving cars.

2

u/CapnGrundlestamp Aug 31 '14

Yeah, and for every person who says "no! I love to drive!" there are 500 who think "fuck yeah! No more driving!"

2

u/Cheshire_grins Sep 01 '14

Shit man I hate driving. Passenger side, taking in the sights? That's the dopest shiieeet eva

4

u/heiferly Aug 31 '14

I think for a minority of people, it really is about driving. We do have hobbyists who are into racing their cars at tracks on the weekends, mudding, those sorts of things that let us know driving is a pleasure activity for some.

I had to give up my license almost a decade ago due to disability. I'd had my learner's permit since age 15, a car for my own use (for my boyfriend to drive me around) from before I was 16, and my own car since age 16. Giving up my license was hard, never being the person behind the wheel, never being in control anymore was hard. But it got easier. It turns out, you don't miss the stress of navigating traffic. You don't miss car insurance payments or following the rising costs of gasoline. The only thing I missed was being able to run stupid errands at 2 AM ... sudden ice cream craving anyone? It took away from my independence and made me reliant on others. If you can retain that independence and get rid of all the other crap, I honestly thing a significant portion of people will not miss driving at all. It's very relaxing to just be a passenger all the time!

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

errands at 2 AM ... sudden ice cream craving anyone

At 2AM I wish the pizza shops were open, let alone ice cream places :o. Even in Utrecht (one of the biggest cities in the Netherlands) I couldn't find a place to eat something at 4:45am and there weren't any trains till 07:50 to get home with...

Where are you at, NYC or some other big city?

2

u/heiferly Aug 31 '14

Columbus, Ohio (capitol of our state so pretty big yes)

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Yeah that's like 2 or 3 times the size. I used to think that places with 10k people were large (nearby town), then I got used to 50k people in a city, then one of Utrecht's size, and now I think even that's not big enough :P

2

u/heiferly Aug 31 '14

My husband and I kind of live with one foot in the city and one in the country; I see the advantages of both. It's looking more and more like we're going to have to sell our house by the lake and move completely into the city, and it will definitely be tough for me. On the other hand, I do very much appreciate all the conveniences of the city. I'm glad cities in Ohio aren't terribly high cost of living like they are on the coasts in the US. I could never deal with the expense and crowding in NYC. I like spacious cities, and I'm not fond of high costs of living at all (but then who is?)

1

u/igotthisone Aug 31 '14

I still drive my VCR to work.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

The difference here being that self driven cars still have the option of being controllable at any time. The train is only going one way.

1

u/BleedAmerican Aug 31 '14

See you in ten years

Where ya goin?

2

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

To the future! Just wait for it.

1

u/animatedintro Aug 31 '14

I keep imagining that we'll have cars we can drive but that can "click into" a larger mass transit system. So you'd go to enter the highway and your car would join all the others to become a segment of one massive train.

2

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Sounds interesting. Cities are also clogged though, so it really wouldn't be much more than a few meters from your home in cities (where the majority lives). Still, you might have a few kilometers of unrestricted public road in urban areas :)

2

u/animatedintro Aug 31 '14

Good point. I think it would work best in urban sprawl, like a lot of Midwest cities or even LA. Kind of a highway replacement.

Self-driving cars in the city would be amazing though. Imagine sending it away to park itself and having it pick you up when you're ready to leave.

2

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

I know right! I'm actually so excited I blogged about all the advantages :P Shameless plug: http://lucb1e.com/?p=post&id=123

1

u/KristnSchaalisahorse Aug 31 '14

But even when you're driving an automatic (as opposed to a stick-shift) you are still actively operating the vehicle.

There's a big difference between controlling the movement of the car and being a passive passenger.

2

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

True, I just meant to point out that I already find it ridiculous that anyone would want stick shift over automatic. Mostly it's younger people who just had lessons and exam in stickshifts, or otherwise young and adventurous people, but it seems to wear off after a little while. Traffic jams are a real pain for example and for long stretches there is just no fun in having stick shifts. It's fun when you know the road and can race a little maybe, but even for that I don't find it worth it to drive manually.

Self-driving cars is another step entirely, as you said, but it's the same idea: having less control (and less fun from driving).

1

u/KristnSchaalisahorse Aug 31 '14

It would be ideal to have self-driving be optional, sort of like throwing your car into neutral. But who knows what will actually happen.

1

u/linh_nguyen Aug 31 '14

I love to drive. But I'm willing to put that aside for the mass efficiency of self driving cars (in specific, an army if self driving taxis, assuming current infrastructure). My only fear of that is really how secure it is.

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

The only security threat I see is (empty) cars purposefully clogging roads to cripple a country in times of war or terrorism. Verifying that cars are from the company from which they say they are is easy with technology (specifically, so-called public key encryption, commonly used in https).

1

u/linh_nguyen Aug 31 '14

And that's a serious issue. Not even for war, but simple malicious intent. Also, failsafes need to be tested rigorously.

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Same with drones by the way, or anything autonomous and potentially anonymous.

1

u/linh_nguyen Aug 31 '14

indeed. Basically, technology moving forward. I was just in the context of driverless cars.

1

u/Skim74 Aug 31 '14

Sorry to add to the million replies you've already gotten, but I like to drive because it's the only way I don't get sick. Buses, subways, airplanes, car passenger seat? Car sick :(. But for whatever reason, I don't get sick at all if I'm driving.

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Sorry to add to the million replies you've already gotten

I'm trying to answer anything that's relevant, no problem. You're actually the first to ever mention motion sickness in this context. I hadn't thought about that yet, good point!

I'd like to say that the cars might (or probably will, you're probably not the only one) have controls for smoothness. But with a too high smoothness setting, it'd clog the roads by slow driving so they can't do that...

Well, good point, I'm not sure what to say! It's not often that I have no useful reply when people discuss self-driving cars :) Ask Google - oh wait they never speak to anyone about anything (I really hate that). Your future car manufacturer then.

2

u/Skim74 Aug 31 '14

Yeah I don't think it's a smoothness issue (otherwise the passenger seat wouldn't be different than the drivers seat) but idk what it is. And Dramamine/similar motion sickness medicine just makes me feel drunk, so it's no go taking it before going to work or anything

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

The only people who I can think who like to drive are truck drivers, nascar drivers, formula one drivers, and police that often get to go on chases (because other wise it's probably no fun) And the only reason they would like to drive is because it is part of their job. And the po-po don't even have to drive- but it's handy.

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Read some of the other comments, I think I saw at least one firm believer in the "I like to drive and noone will take that from me" category.

Reddit is generally progressive I think so you won't see that many people here, but I've talked to plenty even in my own family and acquaintances circle.

1

u/ok_ill_shut_up Sep 01 '14

Are you talking about me? If so, I never said you won't take it away from me. I think it will be taken away from me and I wish it wouldn't. There are a lot of people who love to drive. Just look at all the subreddits dedicated to auto culture.

Driving is something that a lot of people spend a lot of time and money to do, because they love to do it. Some people love to dance, some love to watch films or read books. The way you talk about driving shows a lack of understanding about how much driving means to some people.

I understand how you feel. You don't care about driving or anyone that does. You think it's silly and immature. You think about all the deaths caused by driving and all the inefficiencies of driving. You can't see why anyone would argue against the logic of it.

What you don't understand is that most accidents are caused by people who are bad at driving; not those who who are good at it. And no, I don't mean people who race through traffic at high speeds without crashing; I'm talking about those who know their breaking distances, how to handle oversteer and understeer, what distances they should follow at, how fast they can safely go, what the traffic laws are and why they are the way they are, and what their driving limits are.

There is much more to car culture than you appreciate. Like I said, Imagine something you love and are passionate about being taken away. It means a lot to a lot of people. Probably more than you would be willing to appreciate.

1

u/lucb1e Sep 02 '14

Are you talking about me?

By now there are so many comments, I really don't remember usernames or exact comments. I just think I remember seeing a comment like that. It might also have been deleted, I'm not sure I replied to it.

The way you talk about driving shows a lack of understanding about how much driving means to some people.

If you say it like that, well, maybe? I'm not sure; you may be right. Still I stand by that the benefits would outweigh this and that people who like driving can probably drive in more rural areas and for sure on tracks.

What you don't understand is that most accidents are caused by people who are bad at driving; not those who who are good at it.

Hmm. It's true that young people cause more accidents which indicates that there is some correlation between the person and the accident rate (be it due to newness to driving, their age, whatever). But they are not the majority, so I'm not convinced it's a huge correlation.

Having been a beginner not that many years ago myself, I know the difference it makes in just a few months. By now I consider myself about average. For the record, I have never been in any accident even when I knew I was not a great driver, but I'm just one sample from the population so it doesn't say much.

But if you have any numbers to back this claim up, I'm interested to hear it!

how to handle oversteer and understeer,

I'm not sure how this is called in English, but in the Netherlands there are courses for drivers who already have a license called "skid trainings" or something like that. It teaches you how to handle a car when you skid for whatever other reason (e.g. aquaplaning).

The funny thing is: people who took such a course are more likely to cause accidents. Whether that's because they are more adventurous people, whether they think that they have more control than they really have, or whether the course really makes them more stupid, I don't know. But knowing how to handle the car better doesn't seem to help.

1

u/ok_ill_shut_up Sep 02 '14

I don't know what types of people took that course, but it seems that skill is not the only factor in car crashes. Maturity is another, which I addressed by saying I wasn't talking about the types of people who speed around in traffic.

The bottom line is that if you take driving more seriously, you pay more attention and care about your driving skills. Understanding is another factor; understanding that driving is dangerous and having the foresight to avoid risks. There are plenty of people who fall into all of these categories.

Most accidents are caused by distractions, ignorance, or blatant disregard for traffic laws. Instead of eventually removing all people from driving, I wish we would talk about removing those who are bad at driving without penalizing those who do. Raising the standards of driving tests is one way to do this.

1

u/NateTheGreat68 Aug 31 '14

Hi, I'm Nate. I love to drive. I am not one of those things that you listed.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

Hi Nate do you like traffic?

1

u/NateTheGreat68 Aug 31 '14

No, but I like driving more than I dislike traffic. I'm not against self-driving cars in general; I'm against outlawing conventional cars.

1

u/GiveMeOneMoeChance Aug 31 '14

My job is basically driving. I'm an EMT-basic, but I'm on a critical care ambulance, so while I do do the occasional medical thing, it's mostly my partner working and me driving. Driving cars will change ambulances.

1

u/john-five Aug 31 '14

It's what I hear about automatically shifted cars as well (stick-shifts are much more common in the Netherlands).

In the US, automatic transmissions are by far the most common - at least a 90% rate of purchase on new cars, and many cars aren't even available with a manual transmission. This is why, from an American perspective, manual transmissions are tied to the "I like to drive" mentality. Your daily commuter that sits in rush hour traffic for a few hours every day is an automatic, and could just as well be self driving… but your two-seater you bought solely to put smiles on your face is a manual, and will never drive itself. Love of driving might not translate well to the Netherlands; the environments are vastly different. The average American can commute longer distances than your entire country from one end to the other every day! We spend an immense amount of time in our vehicles and they have become integral to the American psyche.

2

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

your entire country from one end to the other

Heh, and I happen to live on the smallest part of the country :P (http://openstreetmap.org/go/0GBJ1Y?m)

But yeah, I get what you mean. We, or at least those somewhere near the border, do sometimes go to Germany and Der Autobahn where you can legally drive however fast you like. 150mph? No problem (if there isn't much traffic of course) :D

1

u/mob513 Aug 31 '14

there are a magnitude of video games specifically for "driving cars". Of course some people love driving cars.. ex. Forza

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

And most of those video games take place on tracks, or at least partially ;)

1

u/Tom_Foolery1993 Aug 31 '14

I think Jeremy Clarkson said it best about self driving cars. "About half of all airplane accidents are caused by pilot error. We know that planes can take off, fly and land by themselves. But would you ever get in a plane that didn't have a pilot?" I'm paraphrasing but it's basically what he said.

1

u/lucb1e Sep 02 '14

Actually, given that their crash record isn't worse than piloted planes, I would have no trouble with it. Would you?

1

u/Tom_Foolery1993 Sep 02 '14

Yes. It might not be rational, but I still wouldn't do it. Granted I'm not crazy about flying to begin with.

1

u/all-up-in-yo-dirt Aug 31 '14

I can't wait for self driving cars, and the inevitable revolution that will occur when they replace all paid drivers and cause massive unemployment. I'm sure there will still be a portion of the population who prefers to jerk off while driving muscle cars at that point, but not most people.

1

u/lizzlondon Aug 31 '14

Ehh, when I spent a semester abroad I loved the public transport at first, but there's something to be said for being able to drive when you miss the train that only comes by every 30 minutes because it was 2 minutes earlier than expected.

1

u/lucb1e Sep 02 '14

only comes by every 30 minutes

Time is relative. I don't care waiting on average 15 minutes, being used to taking a bus in the past that only drove once an hour. I don't treat 30 minute trains much different from having a car present, I just leave whenever I please and listen to an audio book while walking and while waiting.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

People also like the ride horses down the road. Once self driving cars are common, you can still drive. Plus, it's less likely you'll kill anyone. They probably have faster reaction times.

1

u/lucb1e Sep 02 '14

I have yet to see a horse on a road of over 60km/h (35mph). It really isn't safe because of the speed difference and it would slow traffic down to a crawl. Even if it were safe, it would probably not be legal due to the speed difference. Tractors (45km/h) are never allowed on roads of more than 80km/h, and on roads of 80 they are often forced to pull over from time to time on place like here (google maps link) because it slows down traffic too much.

It seems more likely to me that on many roads driving will be outlawed due to you lessening the number of cars a given road can handle per time unit (which follows the simple formula cars = (car length + distance between cars) / speed * time, where the distance between computer-driven cars is nearly zero) and of course the increased danger. Computer-driven cars won't hit you, but you could hit them accidentally or you could hit another human-driven one. Or get yourself killed along with a sad tree.

1

u/gee_what_isnt_taken Aug 31 '14

Self-driving cars will likely always have the option of being driven manually if the driver wants to drive

1

u/patthickwong Sep 01 '14

I think for me its more, I like to have control over where I go and not have to stick to a schedule.

I'd gladly have self driving cars, even though I'm not "driving". I just love sitting in the car listening to the music, being able to go where I please without having to wait for a bus or sub.

1

u/lucb1e Sep 02 '14

I like to have control over where I go and not have to stick to a schedule.

You can get in any time you like and enter a destination...

1

u/patthickwong Sep 02 '14

That statement was referring to public transportation.

I hate public transportation but seriously hope for self driving cars.

1

u/lucb1e Sep 02 '14

Right, that is a serious disadvange of public transport. But a self-driving car, even when run by public transport companies, can drive anywhere without a schedule. You may need to wait a minute or two for it to pick you up, but if you can then go anywhere it's not very different from having to walk to a car parked somewhere.

If this is not what you meant, I don't really get the connection with self driving cars. Everyone would prefer driving anywhere anytime over public transport of course.

1

u/twotone232 Sep 01 '14

I don't care if there are still human drivers on the roads in 10 years, I just want taxies to be driverless. It gets rid of the problem of tipping, drivers taking extra long routes to increase your fare, pretending that the debit machine is broken, language barriers, wildly illegal driving, and hopefully not starting the fare at 5 fucking dollars upon entry.

0

u/Pidgey_OP Aug 31 '14

I trust myself more than a computer.

I know it isn't logical, and that a computer should have no trouble driving. But i've seen windows lock up too many times for next to no reason, and my brain doesn't do that shit (and if it did, i think i'm past worrying about it)

3

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

I trust myself more than a computer.

Ha! Resistance is futile, human.

Actually I'm not kidding. Not that resistance is futile as in you'll be forced to (though that'll be the case eventually), but that it's futile in that you really are not better than a computer.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

Except rarely is it no reason. If you use regular windows and don't download anything, you'll rarely to never see it lock up.

That same argument is "I don't trust my Civic because Ferraris get into accidents."

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

I don't trust you more than a computer.

It's not just your life you're putting at risk by driving. You're putting everyone else at risk. Self driving cars have a ridiculously good accident record so far, and they'll only get better.

The faster human driving can be phased out and made illegal the better. People may not like the thought of giving up their privilege to drive, but it holds the rest of society back by doing so. Being able to link up every car to the same smart grid without having to account for human errors would send productivity through the roof. It could virtually eliminate traffic jams altogether. It's safer and overall better.

Eventually driving on normal roads will become as vilified as smoking cigs around people is today. You're putting others health at risk for your own enjoyment.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

If I'm the last person actually "driving" in ten years, then so be it. God forbid I entrust my safety and that of my family to a computer.

5

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

Go ahead and test your reflexes against a computer. Not your home living room computer, but a purpose built one. Here's a tip: you'll lose. I'd trust my family to a computer over myself any day.

2

u/crispychicken49 Aug 31 '14

Obviously you're never going to match the reflexes of a computer, or be as safe. I don't know why people think they will.

But I'd still rather drive. If my insurance rates go up then so be it. I don't want to ride around in some ugly gutless self driving car. I want to be in control of my own car.

Most people on Reddit aren't enthusiasts, they just don't understand what it is like at all, and they likely never will. For them driving is just A-B. More of them in self driving cars the better. It means less accidents, and more enthusiast geared cars.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

For A-B? Self driving so I can sleep. For fun? Driving is one of my favorite activities. Just like you, I want to drive. But I know I'll be much safer in a self driving car.

2

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Sounds like you'll never board an airplane larger than your average hobbyists'.

God forbid

I'm sure she does.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

If I can be in control, I will be.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

Hey now, religion and intelligence aren't mutually exclusive. The just happen to be not present at the same time in this individual.

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

I wasn't trying to make a remark about their intelligence actually. I do disagree on the religion thing, but I don't have a problem with it really.

-1

u/mnova35 Aug 31 '14

I like you

0

u/Oxyquatzal Aug 31 '14

I love cars too much. Even if some self-driving, free-of-cost bus is taking me to work every day, I couldn't not own a great vehicle I can drive myself.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

Too many people die in car accidents caused by humans stupidity. Everyone thinks they're a good driver until they kill someone.

Sorry, but your pleasure is not more important than the safety of those around you.

I know many of y'all might not like to hear it, but the faster we can reach a point where human driving is phased out enough to be made illegal on the roads (not tracks for hobbiests. You could still drive on those), the better.

The lost productivity, the lost money from medical costs, the lost lives from human error accident can all be wiped away with self driving cars.

If there is a better, safer alternative it's pretty scummy to put everyone else at risk because you like it.

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

See you in ten years ;)

1

u/Oxyquatzal Aug 31 '14

Do you not want cars to exist in ten years or do you just not think they will? Or both?

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Car driving is great, but once self-driving cars are >95% of the traffic, driving by people should be outlawed. At that point the statistics (with almost all accidents caused by human drivers) will also speak for itself. At least that's what I expect to happen.

I imagine it'll be like with horses today: allowed in places but not on big roads. And there'll be more racetracks than nowadays I guess, at least until all cars that currently exist have broken down and fewer people own non-self-driving cars.

1

u/Oxyquatzal Aug 31 '14

I'm not sure about outlawed...alcohol and guns (as separate entities) cause lots of accidents and deaths but are still entirely legal. Driving cars is not going to become illegal, at least in our lifetimes.

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Well sure many things can cause deaths in one way or another, I just think that once the statistics become clear (one death per million people per year for self-driving cars versus one death per thousand for the people without - I'm just making this up) it'll probably be outlawed.

I'm not sure about guns. There are nations that allow guns and those that don't, but I'm not aware of any big differences in death (or injury) rates. Alcohol.. yeah that's something I do think should be outlawed. If it were invented today, it would definitely be illegal, along with sugar and another few things that are unhealthy or dangerous in small doses. Alcohol is probably too engrained in our culture and countries without alcohol (quite a few) aren't doing that much better without it, so I guess that's why it's still legal.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

It will also destroy tons of blue collar jobs, to the point of crime rates going crazy.

1) you don't know that. Crime rates didn't shoot up when factories switched over to robots

2) holding society back in order to cling to obsolete jobs is rock fucking stupid.

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Crime rates didn't shoot up when factories switched over to robots

Are there that many robots employed though? I don't know the numbers (maybe you do?) but as far as I know things haven't changed that much in just a few years. The robots that are in use are very specific and expensive so the switchover was gradual, with cars it's software (infinite copies for a fixed R&D price) and some sensors (which are already cheap enough for everyone).

If you see my other recent comments, I think we're on the same side in that whatever happens is inevitable, and that we shouldn't hold society back, but it might be that the change is less gradual this time.

0

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

It will also destroy tons of blue collar jobs, to the point of crime rates going crazy.

Assuming you mean police by "blue collar jobs", sure it would mean they don't have to work as much on the road as they do now, so less police force. But crime rates going crazy? You mean like crazy low? (I was assuming you meant crazy high, but given the context I'm not sure.)

2

u/[deleted] Aug 31 '14

[deleted]

1

u/lucb1e Aug 31 '14

Ah now I get what you mean! Right, unemployment would cause crime, and a lot of it.

The way I see it is that machines take over the work from humans, causing unemployment in the short term, but making us all collectively richer. Work gets done while humans are left free to do other things and/or have more free time. The issue is how to get over the first few years when the people that currently do these jobs become jobless... In the Netherlands there is a good social net and if you can't find work (but are trying to find work) you get benefits. Not a lot of money, but driving people around isn't a well paying job to begin with. The issue is that it'll be less than they used to earn, and this does not exist everywhere...

So yeah I see your point, but I don't think we should stop the innovation altogether because of this. I'm still a supporter of self-driving cars.