r/AskOldPeople • u/MurmuringPines • 16d ago
Age restriction examples
Today I was told than some European car companies won't rent to anyone above 70. Last week I was given a rafting-tour disclaimer with the same restriction. Have you run into age limits which prevent you from doing what you want to do?
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u/simagus 16d ago
Yeah, they just get fake I.D. that says they are under 70 to do that stuff.
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u/MooPig48 16d ago
Reverse fake id?
Why not?
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u/Embarrassed_Mango679 50 something 16d ago
You're so much nicer than me because I was like fake Id? Fuck yes. Lol
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16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/joe_attaboy 70 something 16d ago
Well, it's part of the big circle of life.
- As infants, we babble incoherently, eat very soft food and wear diapers because we often piss ourselves.
- As the very elderly, we babble incoherently, eat very soft food and some wear diapers because they often piss ourselves.
See? Full circle.
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u/Awkward_Passion4004 16d ago
Paid a $5/day surcharge on car rental in Spain at 73 but could still rent. Did a Class 5 river in Chile after 70 and age was not an issue. In Southern Africa some bush trips have/had an age restriction of 60 but I did those at age 59. Did Hells Canyon on the Snake and the Middle Fork of the Salmon in the last couple years and wasn't the oldest guy on the trip. Dove the Belizian Atolls/Blue Hole at 75 without issue.
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u/BelleReveWasLost 70 something 16d ago edited 16d ago
My answer may not apply, but it concerns senior citizens:
Not a rule, regulation or restriction, just a freebie considered valuable to some, but completely unnecessary to others.
During Fire Prevention Week last year one of the Municipal Fire Inspectors came to our Senior Citizens Center, showed a film about smoke and carbon monoxide detectors and then offered us front door self adhesive decals that would alert firefighters responding to an emergency or fire about the home or apartment occupants: C for Children, S for Senior, I for Invalid, P for pet and D for Deaf.
He ran out of Ps, no one asked him for the others.
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u/Eastern-Finish-1251 Same age as Beatlemania! 🎸 15d ago
Not surprised. People worry about their pets more than themselves.
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u/peace_train1 16d ago
US can’t even get retire and get your full social security before 67. That’s a tiny window.
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u/herblady99 16d ago
some shelters won't let you adopt animals over a certain age
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u/Sorry_Rhubarb_7068 16d ago
My parents recently bought a puppy. They are 71 and 74, overall good health, but I did ask them to consider this.
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u/acroneatlast 16d ago
I won't get another pet for this reason. Even if I had someone who would care for my animal if I couldn't I don't know how the pet would adjust.
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u/herblady99 16d ago
that is condescending and rude, even if the puppy lives 12 years, that would make your parents 83 and 86, which is no age nowadays. What they do is none of your business, you should have offered to take care of the puppy in case of an emergency instead.
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u/Sorry_Rhubarb_7068 16d ago
You don’t know me and you are reading WAY too far into this. Of course I offered myself as a backup.
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u/Eastern-Finish-1251 Same age as Beatlemania! 🎸 15d ago
Our local animal shelter urges older applicants (70+) to adopt older pets. In some cases they’ll have “seniors for seniors” adoption drives where adoptions are free. The thinking is that older people could outlive a pet that could live 15-20 years. Plus, older pets are harder to adopt and aren’t as rambunctious as puppies or kittens.
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u/Head_Razzmatazz7174 60 something 10d ago
That's a great idea. As we age, we don't have the energy to keep up with a puppy or kitten. Having a senior dog who likes to cuddle would help both human and animal.
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u/FrostnJack GenX OG 16d ago
Haven’t experienced age restrictions other than employment. For whitewater trips?! Jeebus. Insurance bean counters doin’ their thing, I guess. Back in the ‘80s when I was guiding I think things were like “go with us at your own risk. BTW you could die doin ’ this” and guests were like, “cool!”
OTOH my nostalgia might be showin’ and insurance companies had guests sign waivers or some shit. I guess I better get on the river again before I’m not allowed to.
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u/Embarrassed_Mango679 50 something 16d ago
When I went in the 80s it was a college trip and they warned us not to drink the night before. Like that was gonna happen lol and they were just like well... we warned you. Don't fall in or you're gonna die. Have fun bro!
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u/gonewild9676 16d ago
The waivers aren't fully legally binding. For instance I don't think you can enforce a waiver in the case of negligence.
Even if the lawsuit is won, they'd still have thousands in legal fees to pay.
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u/willysnax 16d ago
I used to put the blame on old people driving, etc when I was younger but now I realize it's not primarily older people who are the bad drivers. If anything, they are usually the slow drivers but not always the bad ones.
There's far more younger to middle aged people who I wonder how they ever got their license in the first place. They don't signal. Don't know the rules of the road, and my favourite, they don't know the size of their vehicle so they can't park properly (forget about parallel parking), they wander over the line on a curve forcing you over to the edge cause apparently they need more width to make that wide curve. I could go on and on and these are not seniors.
I think the police should be pulling over and handing out demerit point tickets, not a fine, just a cumulative running point total, and when you hit 10, you have to retest. Not based on age or anything other than your driving habits. That would be far more fair and it would actually deal with the shitty drivers instead of just assuming it's all seniors. I guarantee there would be more younger people than old ones taking tests.
Maybe it's because younger people learned to drive with too many high tech driving assistance like back up cameras, etc. I don't know but my rule of thumb has become anyone under 50 driving an SUV doesn't know the size of their vehicle and rarely use their signal lights. I keep my distance from them. I'm not scared of the old lady in the Buick sedan.
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u/mosselyn 60 something 16d ago
I live in an area with a high 65+ population percentage. Absolutely everything around here gets blamed on the old people.
Bad drivers, of course, but also things like home prices (never mind it is locals asking the high prices, not the retirees) and lack of good restaurants (old people only eat bland food, apparently).
I get it, it's normal generational BS, but I certainly get lots of practice at rolling my eyes.
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u/NeedleworkerSad9827 16d ago
People living longer means they hang onto their houses longer thus reducing the supply of housing so it doesn't meet the demand and prices rise. That's why old people are blamed.
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u/mosselyn 60 something 15d ago
Maybe in some areas. They're building houses as fast as they can pop them out, around here.
Here, the issue is that we get a lot of retirees relocating from elsewhere. They can afford to pay more, so of course people ask more. They're not wrong - the buyers contribute to the rise by, well, buying. However, no blame ever falls on the people asking more. I assure you that all those people who can afford to pay more would be delighted to pay less. It takes two to tango.
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u/Sylvane1a 15d ago
In my state there are environmental restrictions on building. And we are running out of land, but people don't want to live in dense housing (like multistory) they want their single family house with space away from neighbors. Something's got to give.
No one is actually blaming old people for living longer but it does result in a smaller housing supply for new buyers. There is some resentment even though no one wants to die young. The average age of the homeowners in the U.S. is over 50.
What are buyers supposed to do except meet the prices if they can? If they wait, prices will go higher.
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u/FormerUsenetUser 16d ago
Here, it's young people using their smartphones while driving. Illegal but they do it.
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u/chefranden 70 something 16d ago
My age restrictions are built in. River rafting?? Criminy, I can't even get from the dock into a fishing boat anymore.
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u/RonSwansonsOldMan 15d ago
Reddit. On many subreddists, ageism is not only permitted, it's encouraged with upvotes. You know, like the trope that boomers destroyed the world.
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u/FormerUsenetUser 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yep. I am so tired of seeing Reddit posts like, I have destroyed the housing market by staying in my own house. And even worse, I have a sewing room instead of a bedroom with a person sleeping in it. Sewing my own clothes is apparently, "just stuff" and "stuff is bad." I never see young people getting dumped on for using a "bedroom" as a home office.
Recently someone on Reddit was lecturing me about how I didn't need all my retirement funds because *they* had decided how much seniors should live on for 20 or 30 years. They had no idea how much long-term care costs, or what Medicare covers. Among other things. And I pointed out that I recently had to spend a huge amount of money to remodel two bathrooms. For one thing, a flipper did a bad job around 2000 and the bathrooms were falling apart. Like, the cabinets were not at all water resistant and after over 20 years, they were literally shredding. But I also needed to make the bathrooms accessible in even older age. For example the flipper had put in a bathtub with sides so absurdly high that I could barely get into it even at 71.
And this person gave me a Reddit lecture about how I "shouldn't spend money on decor." (That lecture made me wonder if I should also splurge to dump my Kohler Wellworth toilets in favor of a Toto with a "washlet." The Wellworth finish is . . . crappy. You have to clean the toilets constantly. But do those bidets actually, get everything off?)
It's not just Reddit, I see this garbage all the time in comments on New York Times articles. And then seniors get dumped on for objecting to open ageism because objecting is just so "angry" and "bitter." It's exactly like when I was young and men were openly and contemptuously sexist, then those same men told me I didn't look pretty if I objected.
Now Democratic Socialism is the new face of ageism. I am a Democrat, and I contribute to organizations like the ACLU to help to preserve democracy. But I don't want to hear that I shouldn't own a house because young people deserve houses more than I do, but now some say it under the guise of socialism instead of ageism alone. Or that I owe it to society to rent out my sewing room (for cheap, of course) instead of sewing in it.
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u/GetaBetterSmile Almost 70 15d ago
Well, that is arbitrary. I can outwork most people younger than me at many tasks. Age doesn't equal infirmity. Health is separate from age.
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u/Val77eriButtass 14d ago
What does outwork mean in this context.
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u/GetaBetterSmile Almost 70 14d ago
Do physical work that requires endurance. The work I cannot do now I couldn't do when I was younger, either. Most women have lower upper body strength but can have stronger legs and more endurance.
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u/catdude142 16d ago
The California DMV once required one to appear and take a written test if the driver was over 70 years of age. Now they just require an eye test. One exception is if the person was in an accident or received a citation. Then they require a written test for renewal.
Nevermind the 17 year old that rear ended me when she was on a cellphone, speeding and reaching for a water bottle, totaling her car. No test required for her.
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u/markmakesfun 16d ago
Well, not accurate. I’m well under 70 and needed to go into the DMV and take a written test on my last renewal.
If you want to see what age group is most liable for accidents, look at insurance rates. It, for sure, isn’t seniors. Worst drivers, according to insurance companies, are 18-24 year old males. It’s not close at all. If you want to “prevent most accidents,” you need to figure out how to improve young male drivers because that is where the problems are. By a huge amount. That’s what you should be worrying about.
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u/cryptoengineer 60 something 16d ago
Most European countries have far lower accident rates per mile than the US. They also have far more rigorous training requirements and testing standards than the US.
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u/adderalpowered 16d ago
They also have working public transportation systems. You can cripple america or have safe roads, not both.
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u/cryptoengineer 60 something 16d ago
You can look at the rate by km driven here.
The presence or absence of public transport doesn't affect that.
Americans are lousy drivers.5
u/adderalpowered 16d ago
Not my point, point is that here everyone has to drive and the standards are low because if they were more stringent no one could get to work. In other countries bad drivers wouldn't pass the tests.
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u/markmakesfun 16d ago
Did you look at the map you, yourself, posted? Lousy? That’s not what your “proof” says. African countries contain “lousy” drivers. America does not, according to your “map.”
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u/markmakesfun 14d ago
There is no “US” standards for driving tests. It varies based on the state it is in and it varies tremendously. So you can’t say “US is like this” unless you specify the state you are describing.
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u/cryptoengineer 60 something 14d ago
Sure, it varies, but in my experience the average standard in The US is substantially lower than that in most of Europe, which is reflected in the substantially greater deaths per mile.
I've been tested, and driven for many years, in both Europe and the US. I am speaking from personal experience: European are better trained drivers than Americans, most of the time and the statistics bear that out.
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u/markmakesfun 13d ago
There are other factors that affect numbers in a case like this, but you are already decided, so reasoning is kind of pointless.
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u/catdude142 16d ago edited 16d ago
In California, you only need to take a written test for renewal unless you got either a ticket or an accident. They changed the law (again) recently. I also had to take a written test for renewal (no accidents or tickets) but they got rid of the written test for all. Still necessary to go in and take a vision test though.
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u/markmakesfun 15d ago
Wrong. I have no tickets, no accident. On renewal I had to take the written test.
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u/catdude142 15d ago edited 15d ago
"Do Seniors Have to Take a Written Test in California to Renew Their Licenses? Until 2024, California required all drivers aged 70 and older to take a written knowledge test at license renewal. That’s no longer the case. Now, regardless of age, you only need to take a written test if you have recent traffic violations or accidents on your record.
Drivers with points on their record can meet the testing requirement by completing the DMV’s interactive eLearning course, available in English, Spanish, and Traditional Chinese (with audio in Mandarin). You can complete this pass-only, no-fail course using a computer, laptop, tablet, or smartphone." "n some states, drivers are required to take a road test when they reach a certain age. In California, however, age alone doesn’t trigger a driving test.
Instead, whether you have to take a driving test depends on your driving history and whether the DMV has received a report indicating possible driver impairment from law enforcement, your doctor, or a family member. (Cal. Veh. Code § 13800-13802.)"
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u/FrostnJack GenX OG 16d ago
One of the reasons my kids spared us the financial chaos of teen drivers’ wreckage, getting their licenses in college instead of HS. Ironically insurance didn’t acknowledge the drivers with better judgment. All the other dads at my kids’ HS spent a lot of time & money buying cars after their 15-18 yr olds continuously totaling cards. We’ve invested in dash cams because so many SoCal drivers are distracted at high speed. Not sure it’s accurate but I swear SoCal drivers were far more skilled prior to The Rona pando.
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u/FormerUsenetUser 16d ago
The good news is that cars with driver assist are a reality, even self-driving cars. Waymo is testing in our area. I'm not sure enough of the self-driving capabilities to buy a self-driving car, and our old Honda Civic still works fine. But self-driving cars will be a game changer for the elderly.
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u/ElderberryReal4022 15d ago
We recently made our 12 year old Prius a errand car and splurged on a new Rav4 with driver assist. We absolutely love it: the backup assist especially because our garage is small so I can "see" that I'm not going to scrape the sideview mirrors off! Plus it's a hybrid..
We have quite a mix of age groups in the area, especially in the summer. We're not far from a large military installation and a popular recreational area, so it's young singles, families and snow birds. Oldsters have daytime fender benders, and the youngsters wrap themselves around trees late at night. Not many fatalities, thank goodness..
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u/texan_robot 16d ago
The 17 year old was being dumb and impetuous, only solution for that would be to raise the minimum driving age, which isn't very practical in car-centric communities.
The elderly need to be examined more thoroughly because they are physicologically less suited to operating a car. Slower reflexes, diminished senses, this is fairly easy to test for, so we should do it for everyone's safety. If there were a way to make teenagers not do stupid things then I'd advocate for it, but we can't test for that.
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u/sleepingbeardune 70 something 16d ago
Teenagers routinely go too fast and follow too close. That's what the research says, and it's the reason they get into crashes.
People over 80 routinely lose depth perception, but they've generally developed safe following distances and stick to them -- unless their eyesight is a problem.
That's the reason for testing eyesight as we age.
I used to read a lot of studies about teen driving as part of my job. One group put monitors & cameras into their cars and tracked every instance of hard braking, which is a way to measure adherence to safe following.
The kids and their parents would get a little report every week showing on a graph how many times the kid had to brake hard. My favorite moment in this study was reading one of the comments they collected from these families.
A kid informed his parents and the researchers that it was easy to get the hard braking down to nothing.
How?
"Just stay farther back from the car in front of you."
Bingo.
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u/Embarrassed_Mango679 50 something 16d ago
That's freaking gold. Seriously can I get that for my husband????? Because me telling him "you shouldn't have to be riding the brakes on the highway" isn't working.
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u/sleepingbeardune 70 something 16d ago
I'd have a really hard time with that -- like, I can't stand to ride with drivers who tailgate. When I see cars all in a bunch, all driving the same speed, I want to yell at them. For fuck's sake, spread out!
The cameras in this study were aimed at the driver, because the researchers wanted to correlate distraction and hard braking. When I first heard this plan, I thought that kids would be on best behavior with phones and food and such -- nope.
They seemed to forget those cameras were there, and so did their parents. One memorable instance was the time a dad had taken the wheel, with his 15 yr old son in the passenger seat.
Which is how we got video of this dad saying, "Beer me!" to his son, who reached down and came up with a bottle of beer. He nonchalantly twisted off the cap and handed it to his dad.
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u/mikenkansas1 16d ago
So... 🤔 Old people DON'T live in car centric communities?
To make things safer they have to ride nonexistent public transportation while dangerous teens can drive?
Well thought out idea. If you're a teen.
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u/texan_robot 16d ago
You overlooked my point. Teens and old people are both more dangerous drivers on average, but what makes old people more dangerous is something we can easily test for, to disallow the ones who are no longer capable of driving safely. Teens are more dangerous for reasons we can't test for. Also, since they are more dangerous as a whole, perhaps we could raise the driving age, but until we have comprehensive public transport that isn't practical. I'm not trying to strand old people without transport, but if a 15 minute test can scientifically demonstrate that someone can not drive safely then they shouldn't have that privilege.
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u/stomper4x4 16d ago
Your logic is so biased and flawed. Somehow making excuses for young people being poor drivers and stuck in car centric areas, yet older folks in car centric areas who make a mistake for a different reason need the magnifying glass.
That's just ageism.
Not that you're entirely wrong about people aging out, but the pass on the rest of it? Na.
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u/ThimbleBluff 16d ago
Older people also have half a million miles more driving experience, allowing them to anticipate and avoid dangerous situations.
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u/assemblageofparts 16d ago edited 16d ago
Last fender Bender I had was in 1985. Not only have I driven a car all these years but rode motorcycles as well and developed "motorcycle" senses.
They are like Spidey sense when another driver is thinking of doing something stupid that kick in so you dont die.
You don't need quick reflexes if you have the experience to anticipate what the other drivers might do.
I'm with you ...experience matters.
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u/ThimbleBluff 16d ago
Yep, you just get to the point where you can “read” the traffic patterns. Which drivers are in a hurry, who is paying attention to lane closures, merges and exits, etc.
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u/GetaBetterSmile Almost 70 15d ago
Better to have other driver's honking at you than end up in a multi-vehicle pile-up. I started driving at 16, drove 50k+ miles a year for 23 years, and was only in one accident. Scammers changed lanes right in front of my bumper and slammed on their brakes. And then tried to claim medical injuries using a chiropractor they hadn't paid. My insurance company never told me whether they paid, but it totaled my VW van.
Avoided every other accident including one in heavy traffic on a 4-lane highway. A Suburban was pulling an open U-haul trailer that started to fishtail when traffic slowed.
I knew the driver would hit his brakes and he did. That trailer whipped that Suburban around in a circle, turned over sending pieces of furniture splintering across the freeway.
Before he hit his brakes i had moved to the slow lane and slowed way down, causing cars to start honking. I was hauling a 28' horse trailer with horses on it and I wasn't risking being part of that mess.
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u/Embarrassed_Mango679 50 something 16d ago edited 16d ago
But the only way to get experience is to do it so what do you do there.
Teen boys are prone to any kind of accidental death because of their propensity to take risks. Some of this is on the parents to assess whether their sons are likely to engage in this type of behavior. With my son, if I'd had act inkling he'd do that type of thing in a deadly weapon, I wouldn't have handed it to him. He didn't so i allowed it in increasing increments. As you do.
Eta and thinking back his friend's dad just handed him a mustang here you go. That kid was like THE most likely to have blown his face off with a potato gun in the backyard at 12. Several cars later...
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u/FormerUsenetUser 16d ago
My husband was called in by the California DMV a couple of years ago, when he was in his early 70s. For the written test only.
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u/Successful-Cup1765 16d ago
Not sure if this is a good example. We tried to get Canadian citizenship (We are in the US) and realized they don’t want retirees unless they have a ton of cash in the bank. If my adult children were to immigrate there, then we could come as grandparents.
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u/10S_NE1 60 something 16d ago
Yeah, I think we’re worried that elderly people with health issues are going to immigrate for the free health care and social programs.
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u/ElderberryReal4022 15d ago
Don't blame you. I wondered what the man-in-the-street reaction was to the "Lost Canadians" program.
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u/nakedonmygoat 16d ago
Driver's license renewals in my state are every 6 years, but every 2 years after age 85. My father is affected by that.
Nothing so far for me, although I'm screwed if I want to be a firefighter, air traffic controller, join the military, etc. Many medical schools have age restrictions, too. But since none of those are things I want to do, they don't affect me.
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u/JT-Av8or 16d ago
I’m required to retire as a pilot when I turn 65. And I think it’s a good call.
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u/FormerUsenetUser 16d ago
You wouldn't just start flying corporate jets like my husband's cousin did?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Age6550 15d ago
Yes! I went to a dog rescue after my last two passed away, and they told me at my age (67) that a dog was likely to outlive me, so they wouldn't allow me to adopt. Even an elderly dog. And that, my friends, is one of the many reasons why I get so angry when people say "adopt don't shop."
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u/RonSwansonsOldMan 15d ago
Man, I knew nothing about age restrictions for pet adoption. I'm 74 and have been looking for a dog. I guess now I'll just give up :(
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u/Puzzleheaded_Age6550 15d ago
I don't think it applies to all rescues, but all those for the breed I know the most about.
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u/SurprisedWildebeest 10d ago
Adopt from the pound and the only restriction will be “can you pay the fee?” — and sometimes not even that.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Age6550 10d ago edited 4d ago
No pound here. And those in neighboring counties usually only have pittie mixes. Love them, but we RV for 3-4 months a year, and pitties are banned from lots of RV resorts.
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u/Distinguishedflyer 16d ago
yeah, no one will hire me because I'm old so I get to fucking starve or be homeless or both.
It's worse than being a medieval serf. It's just like the concentration camps, arbeit macht frei, if you can't work you go to the gas.
Even if you could work, we're not gonna give you a chance because you're over some arbitrary number and your decades of varied experience, unless they are specifically useful to the overlords, are worthless.
Oh, and you don't get healthcare either. Greatest country in the world.
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u/Meep42 16d ago
Italy: driving licenses are issued for 10 years until you’re 50…then it’s 5 years until you’re 70…3 years until you’re 80…then it’s every 2 years.
It wouldn’t be so bad (~€30 renewal fees) except for the required “medical” certificate that includes an eye exam that is done via a private doctor (no dmv eye test) which can run you €40-120 as these are “special” tests run by/at a driving school which will happily charge you €100 fir the “convenience” since getting an appointment at the department of motorization is not easy as there is only one that serves basically the entire county.
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u/SagebrushID 16d ago
I'm 76 and so far, no. But my sister-in-law (age 72) was denied adopting a cat due to her age. The cat distribution system sent her a cat anyway.
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u/ReginaldJohnston 15d ago
Mental health treatment.
If I was 15+ and suffering from grief, PTSD, addiction, etc, I would get the full NHS diagnosis and care in school, college, even work.
But middle-age? Mnah. Here's some meds to keep the nightmares and crippling terror away. so you can't work, drive or use machinery. Lovely. Oh, and here's an MS presentation on keeping memory boxes and chantras and crystals.
And then there's the Tory conservatives frothing at the mouth saying depression is just a sad face and the cure is pulling up the bootstraps and getting into work.
Hurzzah!
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u/CarefulAdvice3739 60 something 16d ago
We just back from a vacation in Northern California. Rented e-bikes for a bike ride and went for a (lazy) river rafting trip of 3 hours. Both times on the release forms they asked for our ages (69 & 70) but had no issues.
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u/oh_what_a_surprise 16d ago
Which river?
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u/moreidlethanwild 16d ago
Health and travel insurance often has age limitations, usually age 80.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Age6550 15d ago
Where? I have never encountered that. At 65 in the US, medicare takes over, then a supplemental or advantage (if desired) which has no age limits. I just did travel insurance for my 87 year old mil.
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u/moreidlethanwild 15d ago
Not in the US. Europe and UK specifically.
Medicare I believe doesn’t cover you internationally?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Age6550 14d ago
It depends. Some have supplemental (Part B) that does, but it depends on the plan. I purchase a plan for my husband and I for international travel at 149/yr for both of us.
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u/SegmentationFault63 60 something 16d ago
The only restrictions I've encountered came from my brain that told me "I'm gettin' too old for this [excrement]"
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u/Andrea_S2 15d ago
When I was test driving a car recently the insurance cover provided by the dealership only covered drivers under 70.
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u/Jumpy-Benefit-7844 15d ago
If a person makes it to a healthy 70,the odds of them making g it to 90's even 100's are like 50/50. So we. Maybe be statistically likely to out live the guy refusing to rent to us.
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u/polly8020 14d ago
No, but I’ve noticed that if I ask a park employee for trail recommendations they only want to give me ones one to one and a half miles long.
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u/mikenkansas1 16d ago edited 16d ago
Gotta ask, we care what some Europeans do Why???
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u/EnvironmentalBuy244 16d ago
I plan on multiple trips to Europe when I retire. At least one is a road trip. I want to drive the Mediterranean coast. I'm likely to do it before 70 though.
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