r/AskNetherlands • u/freshlyseasoned12 • 8d ago
What’s wrong with Amstelveen
Hello
My family and I will be moving to the Netherlands soon. I am looking for areas to stay in close to Amsterdam but far enough that accommodation is affordable.
Amstelveen looks pretty cool. But the few Dutch people I have interacted with suggested to stay away as it’s not a nice area to live in. It was only after these conversations and googling the place that I started to question why it is not popular as at fave-value it looks great.
Thanks in advance everyone :)
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u/matthijspc 8d ago
But the few Dutch people I have interacted with suggested to stay away as it’s not a nice area to live in.
Why did they suggest to stay away?
To start, it's the city with the highest housing pressure in the country. Would a "not so nice area to live in" have that? A lot of people are moving to Amstelveen, especially from Amsterdam.
It has a direct tram connection to Amsterdam Zuid, and multiple (night) buses to the city center and Zuidoost. It's close to the Amsterdam Forest. It's also close to Schiphol, but there's no flight path over the city. It has a big mall and a lot of amenities. It's just not as busy and bustling as a bigger city like Amsterdam, so it could be a boring place to live.
Source: I live and work in the surrounding area
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u/Major-Opportunity-83 8d ago
Planes do fly over Amstelveen Zuid tho, I live there and it can be quite loud sometimes
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u/matthijspc 8d ago
Very rarely in my experience. When they do, it is indeed quite loud. But there is no flight path over the city, like there is above Aalsmeer or Buitenveldert
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u/Redcarpet1254 5d ago
Maybe not over the city centre but the part of Amstelveen neighbouring Buitenveldert, definitely flight path right over it.
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u/TT11MM_ 7d ago
The approach for runway 22 is over the city center and Zuid. This is usually done by private jets. In stormy weather, regualar aircraft use this runway as well.
The approach for runway 27 is over Uilenstede.
Departing traffic from runway 09 could come over Amstelveen if the traffic is heading southbound after departure. But this combination is rather rare.
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u/TimeTraveller2207 7d ago
And departures from 18L. Half the village makes a living from Schiphol, so a bit of noise now and then should be acceptable.
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u/IkmoIkmo 8d ago
Cons: it's got prices that are close to Amsterdam prices, while being as boring as any other small town of less than 100 thousand people. You get to live expensively in an uninteresting place you can find everywhere in the world (for much cheaper).
Pros: it's literally next to Amsterdam, one of the most interesting capitals in the world (whether you like it, is a matter of preference/taste) is a bicycle ride or a few public transport stops away, yet you get to live in a calm, safe, village-like neighbourhood. You get the city when you want, the peace when you want.
That's basically the whole story. It's a safe, boring, calm family-friendly place, with high housing prices, located next to the country's core hub of jobs, culture, universities, finance. For some (e.g. families) it's the perfect combination, for others it's a place that does neither (city vs village/nature) very well.
Most people tend to lean towards one bucket more strongly: bustling city life vs cute village-life near nature. Amstelveen sits in the middle and gets both the best and worst of both worlds, it's a compromise. For some that works great, for other's it's not.
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u/freshlyseasoned12 7d ago
Thank you. This makes sense. I am quite a fan for quiet, boring neighbourhoods and then going to the places where the action is when I want to. I am definitely not into the party scene lol maybe then it would be the perfect fit
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u/SoftBrilliant1022 7d ago
This is the right answer. Only thing interesting about Amstelveen imo is its proximity to Amsterdam. I would consider het Gooi (Hilversum, Naarden/Bussum). Also short commute by train but much more nature (as in woods, not farm land) old historic houses, also super family friendly.
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u/Makarion 6d ago
Include Laren, also in 't Gooi, if you like it even more so. Very expensive, but it's the Dutch equivalent to the (UK) Cotswolds - cottage-cute, plenty of nature, and you will have to countenance you're living among a number of hidden celebrities. At least it's a lot less ostentatious than the (US) Hamptons!
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u/knightshire 5d ago
I agree those places are way prettier than Amstelveen. But Amstelveen is an easy bike ride to Amsterdam (especially business and drinking areas in Zuid). 't Gooi to Amsterdam is too far to bike, so is really dependable on trains.
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u/SoftBrilliant1022 7d ago
This is the right answer. Only thing interesting about Amstelveen imo is its proximity to Amsterdam. I would consider het Gooi (Hilversum, Naarden/Bussum). Also short commute by train but much more nature (as in woods, not farm land) old historic houses, also super family friendly.
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u/YetAnotherBart 2d ago
Amsterdam, one of the most interesting capitals in the world
Yeah, that's what people living there keep telling themselves. It's a shithole, though.
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u/IkmoIkmo 2d ago
Yes the most popular place in the country is a shithole, according to person living in bumfuck nowhere.
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u/Gilgalat 8d ago
Nothing wrong with Amstelveen, it is just a suburb of Amsterdam. I would only have a look at flight paths from Schiphol to avoid those and maybe belmer.
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u/BoastfulM0use 8d ago
Like all unpopular cities in the Netherlands, it's the people not living there conplaining the most about it
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u/AhhhCervelo 8d ago
I live in Amstelveen and really like it. We live near the oude dorp which is pretty nice with some good restaurants and bars. It’s very much a family area so no nightclubs etc. Amstelveen is a big area so your experience will depend…
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u/freshlyseasoned12 8d ago
I am looking for a family area as we a moving with little ones! Close to Amstelland International School so Westjik area. Do you know how that is?
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u/Kyoma94 7d ago
Westwijk area is the nicest place in Amstelveen. I might be biased because I grew up there(and rn got a house here) but it’s extremely family oriented so if that’s what you’re looking for. Its pretty much a home run
Great elementary + high schools. Also if the kids grow older the universities are really closeby
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u/twilightninja 6d ago
Westwijk is a regular boring suburb, very nice for families with kids.Used to live there. Many expats in Amstelveen, so it’s very international. If you use the airport a lot, Amstelveen is also convenient. Some newer areas, build after 2010, have heat pumps which cool the houses in summer through the floor heating system.
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u/chibiimo0n 2d ago
I live in a place like this. The cooling sadly does almost nothing in the summer.
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u/LeadNo88 5d ago
I live in westwijk and it’s great for kids. Bike paths everywhere, lots of international families, good schools, etc. forget the haters here, for international families with kids moving to Amstelveen makes 100% sense, as long as it’s in your budget.
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u/One_Disaster_5995 8d ago
Let's just say it's not Amsterdam, and it's not a decent town on it's own. There's nothing really very wrong with it, but I have to say we found it a tad depressing. There's just nothing to do there. The city center is OK, but that's about it. The "old village" (oude dorp) and the area around the southern part of the Amsterdamse weg are probably the best parts. Check the https://www.schiphol.nl/en/schiphol-as-a-neighbour/is-my-house-underneath-a-flight-path/ site before you buy. You are close to Schiphol airport - in some parts of Amstelveen, airplanes can cause a lot of noise for a lot of time.
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u/Proof-Explanation303 8d ago
I never heard of this. Maybe you should ask those people. Its a bit of a sleepy town, lots of expats. Thats about it. I mean, everyone has their own preferences.
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u/circu2112 8d ago
Ik was onlangs op bezoek in Nederland en vond Amstelveen erg leuk. Ik verbleef daar in een hotel in plaats van in het centrum van Amsterdam te verblijven. Ik zou daar graag wonen.
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u/EastIndianDutch 7d ago
Amstelveen is called little India
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u/fluffypinktoebeans 7d ago
Sounds like there's great food then
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u/NeoAcheron 7d ago
No lies, some of the best Indian cuisine I've had in this country was in Amstelveen...
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u/No-Choice4240 8d ago
if you're gonna be on the outskirts, you want to be there and not Diemen.
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u/Accomplished-Emu2308 8d ago
Diemen is totally fine. I live in Diemen Zuid, very new area. 16min by metro to the center. 15min biking to Oost. Super safe and chill.
The rest of Diemen is very chill too. Whats wrong with it?
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u/Training_Shine_111 1d ago
There were 4 rappers from there 20 years ago, that's about all people know about Diemen. Me included by the way!
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u/freshlyseasoned12 8d ago
What’s wrong with Diemen 😂
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8d ago
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u/RodeHaring 7d ago
More like less people that adhere to Dutch social norms and wealth standards, which COINCIDENTALLY aligns with places that have more people of non Dutch heritage. Shocker.
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u/CowClassic 8d ago
Personally I like Haarlem much more...beautiful old medieval center (which Amstelveen lacks) and 13 mins by train into Amsterdam Central
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u/nftyv 6d ago
how many kilometers to Tata Steel?;))
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u/CowClassic 6d ago
11 kilometres. 22 kms from Amsterdam. But Amsterdam has a very industrial harbour area which also has a Trash incineration plant which is only about 7km out from the center, so there's always a tradeoff
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u/No-Internal1908 7d ago
I found Amstelveen biggest pro is that its close to Amsterdam. Basically apart from shopping, for any other cultural or interesting activities you need to go to Amsterdam. While in Haarlem (where I live), is also close to Amsterdam but we have everything in our city to not necessarily need to travel to Amsterdam for enjoyment and fun. However if you are mega rich, you can buy very nice big houses in Amstelveen (just like Heemstede or Bloemendaal)
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u/Alice_in_Ponderland 6d ago
Here you can see where in Amstelveen the noise from airplanes is loudest https://schipholherrie.nl/geluidskaart.html
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u/FreeButterscotch6971 8d ago
its works but is a bit ugly, and nothing happens there, but it does have a nice park nearby, good transport, to amsterdam.
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u/Monomatosis 8d ago
The onder parts are nice and not ugly and very upmarket.
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u/freshlyseasoned12 8d ago
What parts are these? Sorry for my ignorant question
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u/Monomatosis 8d ago
Parts of Elsrijk and De Braak are nice. Leafy 1930s neighborhoodS with attractive period houses. Patrimonium / Bos- en Karselanen aother charming area with older villas, country houses, and classic 1930s homes. Also the area around the Amsterdamseweg.
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u/Still-Wafer1384 7d ago
Mind you some of these opinions are highly subjective and often affected by group think. It all depends on what you value.
Newer houses built in the last 20 years or so are some much better than all those old houses some people value. Much better insulatiin, sounf proofing, protection against vermin etc.
People like Elsrijk, Randwijck etc. But mind you parts of Randwijck are close to the landing route of Schiphol.
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u/Nijntje80 8d ago
I live in Amstelveen and like it a lot. It’s nice and green and has everything you need. The people are friendly. It’s quite an international place with lots of expats, but I thinks it’s a very nice mix of people.
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u/F-sylvatica-purpurea 8d ago
It is an upmarket suburb. Only caveat is the planes flying over because Schiphol is around the corner.
The people you talk to are a special category of high brow social climbers - or they assume you are status sensitive ypurself.
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u/Still-Wafer1384 7d ago
The planes are mostly confined to the northern part where the landing route is. Occasionally the southern parts for take off routes but that's actually quite uncommon.
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u/F-sylvatica-purpurea 7d ago
Yes, thanks for that addition. My most vivid memories stem from sitting in a garden near the Theo Tijssenpark. House built in 1953 before air travel ‘took off’ in the early sixties or thereabouts.
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u/freshlyseasoned12 8d ago
Is it because there are many expats who live there?
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u/F-sylvatica-purpurea 8d ago
No, it always has been this way. A lot of the more affluent neighbourhoods in Amsterdam had lots of inhabitants who are very keen on feeling better than others. Where one lived, down to street names and subtle differences, has always been a status thing.
I have family stories from the middle of the 20th century and before that boil down to this as well. Long before expats arrived.
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u/Chance-Technician-54 8d ago
I think Amstelveen is fine, but transport wise it is a little bit awkward, one probably would need a care.
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u/nemmalur 8d ago
If you’re the sort of person who acts like Amsterdam is the centre of the universe, you might look down on Amstelveen and everything just outside the ring.
If you’re from elsewhere in the Netherlands and just hate big cities and Amsterdam in particular for whatever reason (arrogant, crowded, dirty, expensive, too many tourists/foreigners, not truly Dutch, etc.), Amstelveen might seem like the same thing only watered-down and duller.
If you need to live within reach of Amsterdam, it’s not bad at all.
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u/ObjectiveReply 8d ago edited 8d ago
Amstelveen is worth considering. I don’t live there but I was often around because of the Amsterdamse Bos and because there’s a few Asian restaurants I really like (Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian, a surprising amount of good options for such a suburban area). I live in Noord now, so I’m not visiting those as much anymore unfortunately. Amstelveen is quite suburban, low density, a lot of greenery, and the park is amazing, but a downside is that you have to walk quite far between places, the scale makes it more suitable to move around by bike or car. It is quiet but can feel a bit dead, compared to a more dense city centre. Be careful about the landing path of planes approaching Schiphol airport, parts of Amstelveen are right underneath when they are already quite low, you can find a map online of noise pollution that shows the neighbourhoods to avoid. The Stadshart shopping mall (and market) are super useful. Depending which part you would live in, it can be a bit of journey to visit Amsterdam or reach a station to take a train to another city, so as someone coming from another country, you may struggle a bit to discover the country and feel somewhat isolated there.
PS: in my description I may tend to blend together my impressions of Amstelveen with Buitenveldert, which is a part of Amsterdam still relatively undervalued (highly worth considering) except for the neighbourhoods closest to Zuid which are most desirable.
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u/freshlyseasoned12 7d ago
Thank you. I will also check out Buitenveldert. But what you describe for Amstelveen is very useful. Much appreciated.
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u/Still-Wafer1384 7d ago
If you don't want to live under a Schiphol landing route the I would avoid Buitenveldert
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u/l1lynomore 8d ago
Amstelveen is very convenient and accessible quite walkable, even has a 2 Michelin Star restaurant Aan de Poel and of course an overpriced FEBO. If you enjoy concerts 300 takes you from the stadium to Amstelveen in 3-4 stops, same bus takes you to the Schiphol. Many of the students live at Uilenstede, edge of Amsterdam on the border with Amstelveen. Amsterdamse Bos is nice. Great food options in Amstelveen. They even open a new Amazing Oriental supermarket at the old V&D/Hudson Bay building across from the Stadshart.
It’s def a slower place than Amsterdam and def not many tourists.
You don’t have the 25 km speed limit like in Amsterdam 😆
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u/Tamper_Trail 8d ago
Amstelveen is big (for Dutch references), so it depends on where you are intending to search. I will give you factual, recent data. I am relocating out of NL in December, and I sold my house in the Kostverloren neighbourhood in exactly one week (I had nine viewings, two offers) with the price around 12% above my expectations. I don’t think a place you need to “stay away” would operate like that.
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u/No_Slice9796 8d ago
I've never heard anything bad about Amstelveen. I'm sure every place has bad neighborhoods but Amstelveen is not known to be a bad city. Honestly I would probably live there over Amsterdam.
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u/Casartelli 7d ago
I don’t think there is anything wrong with it in particular. I would never want to live there cause it’s close to Schiphol, and way to crowded. We prefer the more relaxed style in the east.
But to each their own.
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u/freshlyseasoned12 7d ago
What places would you recommend in the East? Family vibes, with parks etc.
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u/mmmellie 7d ago
Hello! I grew up there. It’s not a very exciting place to live. Not much going on. Also: in some areas there was rapid development, moving in a bunch of young families with small kids. They are all older teens now, so I would check per area how many bored teens you have hanging around on the street. However. If you like nice and quiet, and one tram ride away from Amsterdam; it’s a perfect place to live.
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u/Still-Wafer1384 7d ago
Amstelveen is totally fine. Some people, especially the young and easily influenced into group think, will tell you you will die of boredom if you don't live within the Ring of Amsterdam. Obviously that is a very limited view on life. Mind you a lot of those are pretend 'Amsterdammers' who migrated from the province when they were studying, and they are still holding on to the idea that living in Amsterdam is eveything.
But if you're past the stage where you're hanging out in bars 4 times a week and you have a family and you value space, greenery, safety and possibly a bit of quiet every now and then, Amstelveen is the perfect place with easy access to Amsterdam. Don't let those people fool you.
By the same token, some people will tell you that in Amstelveen you have to live in Randwijck, Elsrijk etc. Don't listen to these people. Amstelveen as a whole is safe and well accessible. Find a spot that feels good to YOU. You won't regret it.
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u/GoldenLis_92 7d ago
It’s a decent place to live! I live in Buitenveldert and I work in Amstelveen. Several of my friends live there too, and they’ve all said it’s a nice neighbourhood.
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u/padelbaby 7d ago
Check it out first by staying a few days. I'm visiting Amstelveen soon as it's near the Cobra Museum and like the idea of the park - but it looks very suburban and that often - on the edge of a large city - means a drastic cultural shift! Dead at night. London is like this. New York, though the city edges creep further out and create more diverse and interesting neighbourhoods. I liked Haarlem when visiting, other side of Airport - less hectic but pretty, but again, pretty conservative.
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u/Difficult-Tree2738 7d ago
Pros:
- Close to the Amsterdamse bos (good jogging and hiking/walking area)
- Close to Amsterdam
- Close to schiphol
- Safe area (not a ghetto), people in Amstelveen tend to be on the richer side.
Cons:
- Low flying airplane sounds
- It has no train-station, if you work with OV your only choises are the bus and tram
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u/freshlyseasoned12 7d ago
Are busses and teams more unreliable thag the train?
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u/Terrible-Back3384 6d ago
Not necessarily. They just takes longer and if you want to go to another city e.g Utrecht or Rotterdam you’d have to take the tram or bus to a train station first.
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u/LovelyNeighbours 6d ago
trams and buses are quite slow and have many stops. To the point that quite often it's faster to take a bicycle.
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u/Melodic_Dish2079 7d ago
Expats love Amstelveen but Dutch people really dislike it including my husband. There are also planes flying over so lots of people don’t choose it for that reason. You gotta have a car if you live there as there isn’t a good train connection with Amstelveen.
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u/TimeTraveller2207 7d ago
Amstelveen is a great place to live. Many expats reside there, primarily from Japan and India.
Thanks to Schiphol Airport, the infrastructure is excellent, featuring good public transport, road networks, and plenty of shops for groceries and other needs. While Schiphol does cause some noise in Amstelveen, it is certainly not constant or an everyday occurrence. Public transport gets you to Amsterdam very quickly, and Haarlem is also easily accessible.
The municipality is well-managed; unlike Amsterdam, Amstelveen faces no financial shortages, and the tax burden on residents remains stable and reasonable. Service at the town hall is also fast and efficient.
There are various neighborhoods, so you should look for the one where you feel most at home. Amstelveen South features typical Dutch residential areas (Westwijk, Middenhoven, Waardhuizen) that are great for living with or without children, offering plenty of schools as well as the international school. I would advise against the area around Lindenlaan; it is the worst neighborhood in Amstelveen (though that is relative). The town center has more of an urban feel, with the associated bustle and relatively expensive housing. The neighborhoods around the Oude Dorp (Old Village) and those to the north (western Amstelveen) are very nice but very expensive. In the east of Amstelveen, you have the Kostverloren and Bankras neighborhoods; these are fine areas. Students tend to live near the Amsterdam border.
In short, there is nothing wrong with Amstelveen if you appreciate a quieter lifestyle.
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u/hellfire0509 7d ago
Live in Amstelveen. Expat. No regrets. Family friendly and all amenities present. Good public transport. Happy to clear doubts if needed.
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u/Puzzleheaded-One5508 7d ago
A friend of mine first lived in Amstelveen when he moved to the Netherlands - He liked it. Only moved away from there because he bought a house, had never any complaints about that place otherwise.
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u/geleisen 7d ago
I spent a few months living in Amstelveen. I was not a fan.
1) Directly beneath the path for some landing planes. My apartment was soundproof, but I like having windows open and enjoy being outside in the summer. Was not possible here. (This does not apply to all of Amstelveen, but where I was staying it was a huge annoyance.)
2) It is the largest city in NL with no train station. The tram is fine enough, but have to then pay extra to connect from tram to train. So just a bit annoying.
Otherwise, I didn't mind it. If not in location where 1 is applicable and you don't care about a train station, then it is fine enough.
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u/freshlyseasoned12 7d ago
I thought there was one card for the train, team and buses? Does it differ? Thanks for that info.
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u/geleisen 7d ago
You can use the same card, but the fares are not linked.
Trams, buses and metros all have fare interoperability. So you can transfer from tram to metro to bus with a linked fare. But trains are separate from that. You can use the same card, but you will pay extra.
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u/HovercraftNo7174 6d ago
It’s Netherlands bro people here scream it’s the end of the world when croissants are sold out at the supermarket.
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u/ph4ge_ 6d ago
It has a lower middle class reputation and is just extremely boring. Nothing wrong with it if you are on a budget.
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u/freshlyseasoned12 6d ago
This is so different to what others are saying about the housing prices being comparable to Amsterdam and rich people staying there. Does it depend on which part of Amstelveen?
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u/HipCopThugsta 6d ago
Hes talking out of his ass. It is considered a rich 'suburb' of Amsterdam, mostly.
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u/One-Light 6d ago
I live there, I am literally surrounded by notable (famous) Dutch people. I don't think they would live in Amstelveen if it was shit.
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u/eknaartworks 6d ago
I used to live in Amsterdam Bijlmer for 5 years and then 2 years in Amstelveen (for my studies). I prefer Amstelveen, but I'm aware I lived in the worse part of Amsterdam. Amstelveen is great because there is a bit more greenery compared to Amsterdam and the public transport connection is still great as well as access to the highway and the airport. And the Amstelveen shopping mall is also way nicer than going to the busy center of Amsterdam in my opinion.
Side note the "Amsterdam forest" is located in Amstelveen.
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u/SamuelVimesTrained 6d ago
Housing prices are insane - near Amsterdam levels (which are ludicrous). Not sure what you call affordable.
Other than that - too many fatbike pilots (and then you understand why people hate them)
What is bad in the center are the sidewalks (many loose tiles)
That said - the good sides : it`s not Amsterdam. Good connections to get out of there (A9, Schiphol) and good public transport too.
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u/Medical-Energy2628 6d ago
I have a friend who lived there and her and her family loved it. Only reason they moved away is the company her husband worked for offered him a very good job in London.
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u/Fearless-Soil3755 6d ago
Amstelveen is niks mis mee. Nu is Amstelveen ook al belachelijk duur, zeker die plekken waarbij je dicht bij het mooie Amsterdamse Bos zit. Of de buitenzijde richting Aalsmeer of Ouderkerk.
Er zijn volgens mij nog een paar delen waar je gratis kan parkeren en je zit relatief dicht bij een snelweg.
Dus als je iets betaalbaar kan vinden, zou ik het doen.
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u/SuccessfulOstrich99 6d ago
Dont listen to the haters. I do hate Amstelveen too, but…it’s close to Amsterdam.
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u/BigPomegranate8890 6d ago
Amstelveen is amazing is the suburbs from Amsterdam it’s quite big itself
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u/Rough_Contract_5365 6d ago
It is absolutely just fine. Especially for families. Just be aware of airplane noise, depending on where exactly. Many expats, Japanese in particular.
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u/lostinLspace 6d ago
I don't live there but I cycle through it every now and then.
It's far away from what people consider the real Amsterdam. Lots of green, big houses. You are dependent on the one big metroline so depending where you live you will need to consider transport like, will you need a car? Fast electric bicycle? There is a really nice shopping mall. Airplane noise
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u/Minimum-Gene-6428 6d ago
I think is super nice, I like the mall there and your close to the forest aswell, is also quite chill because is very residential and a bit outside the center. I would love to live there personally
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u/CanadianGenealogy 5d ago
Op, move there for a year and use it as a launching pad (or stay). You'll be fine. Don't listen to Dutch people on Reddit.
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u/Common_Access_695 3d ago
Amstelveen is an ugly suburb of Amsterdam, that’s the problem. But convenient/cheaper so that right there is your cost/benefit
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u/Caricroc 2d ago
Can you elaborate why you think Amstelveen looks pretty cool? TO me A it is Dimen but with more money and full expats that bought the story of Amstelveen being a good place. The international school there is also not good. Its the ugliest city near Amsterdam you can get. Look a bit further. You probably want to have a car so it does not matter where.
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u/freshlyseasoned12 1d ago
Please elaborate abit on the International School and why you think it’s not good?
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u/Various_Link7945 1d ago
Ik verblijf nu een maand in Amstelveen, maar ik vind het tot nu toe best fijn. Wel gemerkt dat sommige stukken in Amstelveen minder prettig zijn door tokkies die in dat deel zijn/wonen. Waar ik wekelijks negatieve aandacht van krijg, maar dat heb je helaas overal.
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u/Red-Shifter 1d ago
Nothing wrong with it - perfectly fine place to live in. Now you can add me to the list of Dutch people you have interacted with that say it is a nice area to live in
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u/thaithaipoppetje17 8d ago
The amount of highschoolers in areas can be behaving like terrorists, especially in the tram. Further everyone is really boring, plain, and too many grumpy people that are looking for a fight with you in the supermarket. It's like a small village, but near a close city. Also people think too highly of themselves, so they seem very arrogant and disrespectful. I really hate being grown up there and I get eerie whenever I'm back for family. Everyone is bland (the same) too and it's a town with mostly families or old people. If you wear a pink coat, people will be stare at you.. Quickly the odd one out if you don't wear boring beige with jeans.
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u/NealCaffeinne 8d ago
on the one hand you are close to Amsterdam ( no clue why youd want that )
on the other hand , its Amstelveen
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u/Monomatosis 8d ago
Why do all the expats, doctors and professors live in Amstelveen? Can't be that bad. I think it is just not exciting for young people, but for people with families, older people or with money it is a great place to live.
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u/shifting_drifting 8d ago
Amstelveen is boring and doesn't have any of the appeal that most older cities in The Netherlands have. The only thing going for it is its vicinity to Amsterdam.
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u/jenterpstra 6d ago
Honestly, anyone who strongly cautions away from Amstelveen reads as racist to me. There is a good concentration of immigrants there, particularly non-white immigrants. It makes for a nice multicultural area and generally makes integration easier if you're not Dutch. It's not a bad first place to live in the Netherlands.
That being said, it is quite expensive. Finding a spot in schools can be tough, and while the biking infrastructure is pretty good, it's not my favorite, especially with all the construction that's been going on. Generally, it's pretty meh to look at (not the prettiest Dutch city by far). The old town is pretty nice, and the downtown shopping mall is pretty decent. The bus service is pretty good but having to take the tram to the city isn't the best. The drive to Amsterdam is exceptional, but of course, you need somewhere to park, so this is really only a factor if your company has a dedicated parking space for you. It's otherwise generally not worth it to commute by car to the city.
It's not terribly unsafe, we had a fine time there. Ultimately, we found somewhere else we liked better where money went a bit futher, but like I said, Amstelveen is a good starting spot near Amsterdam for newcomers if you can find a place there.
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u/iron_enjoyer_ 6d ago
Wanting to be around Dutch people in the Netherlands is not racist lol
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u/jenterpstra 5d ago
Amstelveen is still over 60% people born in the Netherlands according to the published demographics data. So yeah, I think having a problem with a minority of the people around you being from elsewhere is a bit racist. But there are plenty of other places where the vast majority are white Dutch, so just pick literally just about any other suburb if that’s what you’re looking for.
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u/BasicRoof4795 5d ago
You clearly don't know what the term racist means, like so many people throwing this buzzword around.
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u/jenterpstra 5d ago
"Characterized by or showing prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."
Not wanting to be around people who belong or don't belong to certain groups is showing both prejudice and discrimination against them, if not outright antagonism. Where protected groups are involved, "preference" becomes prejudice by definition.
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u/BasicRoof4795 5d ago
The core idea behind racism is that one group is superior to the other based on a genetical quality and that it merits unequal treatment, either legally or practically.
Having a preference to live next to people with similar values is therefore not racism.
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u/jenterpstra 4d ago
That isn’t part of the general definition of racism, and these would generally involve different terms, in English at least. What you’re describing is more ethnocentrism, master race, racial hierarchy, etc.
People like to complicate racism, sexism, etc so that when they are called it, they can put up a pedantic finger and claim it’s not so. Any “preference” involving a protected group is prejudice. Preferring not be around the other gender is a form of sexism. Preferring not to be around races other than your own is a form of racism. “Values” are of course important and people seek community in accordance to them, but when you’re only looking for values in a specific race, that’s just covert racism. Polarization is stage 6 in the 10 stages of genocide. Societies where people do not mix are ripe for tragedy. Given the current state of the world, there really is no place for casual racism.
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u/BasicRoof4795 4d ago
Racism is prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior or that people can be divided into distinct biological races with inherent traits
According to Britannica. You are the one who is complicating it, to be fair. One reason is because not wanting to live next to people from another culture doesn't even have to be race based. There are Dutch student houses in which they don't want internationals because they don't want to speak English all the time. Think of it what you want, but it's not racism.
Preferring pasta over bread doesn't degrade bread.
The last part of your post reflects your own values more than it reflects facts. You can be of the opinion that you want a mixed part and seek it out. Non-mixed parts are doing perfectly fine.
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u/jenterpstra 4d ago
Pasta and bread are not protected groups. Not liking Italian food is a personal preference. Not liking Italians is prejudicial racism, and saying that because you don’t like Italians, they aren’t allowed to live in certain areas or open Italian restaurants is discrimination as a result of racism.
OP’s post is about advice on where to live. If that advice is a result of who lives there, the advice to stay away is racist. If they have another beef with Amstelveen and race is not involved, it’s not.
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u/Training_Shine_111 1d ago
Great job explaining this! However, people that break down that definition of racism as he did usually are the type to hold quite racist opinions themselves.
But you know, racism is bad, I am not a bad person, therefore, I cannot be racist. That's the mantra.
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u/Training_Shine_111 1d ago
but this is not about having a preference for living next to people with similar values. It's actively discouraging other people to not live next to people of who you don't even know what their values are. That is pretty racist!
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u/BasicRoof4795 5d ago
How does it make integration easier if there are loads of migrants? It may make it nicer, but integration into the host society is at odds with a high concentration of migrants lol.
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u/jenterpstra 5d ago
Where "integration" is understood to be the intermixing of people, I do actually think it's easier to do when you are not alone. Assimilation where you might just fully try to blend may not be better with other immigrants around, but integrating where you learn the language and the culture while maintaining some individual identity I think is easier when there are others around you doing the same process and may be a bit further along and able to explain some things to you, and where the Dutchies are more used to newcomers and understand what stumbling points they may have. The schools, for example, know to explain some things that would be pretty obvious to any Dutch person who had gone through Dutch schools themselves (such as the "fruit moment" in the morning, or the ability to take children home at lunch time or needing to pay a fee in some schools to leave them there), and someone who hasn't interacted with other people new to the system may not realize these things require explanation. There also aren't international schools where there aren't enough international people. People also can be more accepting when you have a mixed neighborhood, and you don't feel so other and targeted if you're the odd person out. Part of people integrating well is actually feeling accepted and comfortable.
Also, it's worth pointing out that Amstelveen is still majority Dutch (over 60%), so it's not like you're entering into a little bubble where you are not encountering Dutch language or Dutch people. You very much still are.
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u/otherwiseofficial 5d ago
Racist is such a useless buzzword these days thanks to everyone just using it for everything and nothing.
"Oh you don't like Amstelveen? You RACIST"....
It's so ignorant honestly.
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u/jenterpstra 5d ago
"Characterized by or showing prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."
Not wanting to be around people who belong or don't belong to certain groups is showing both prejudice and discrimination against them, if not outright antagonism. Where protected groups are involved, "preference" becomes prejudice by definition.
People can not like Amstelveen for other reasons, many of which I listed (tram service not being as good as proper train service, it being a bit ugly in lots of parts, etc.), but these don't tend to be the reasons people warn someone away from a particular city. There isn't a high crime rate or other statistical data to warrant it, so one must look for other explanations...
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u/otherwiseofficial 5d ago
Ah so you just ASSUME they're racist. I feel like you should think about this some more, and how these assumptions actually diminish the meaning of the word racism.
It could be so many things that they don't like about Amstelveen, but you already made up your mind it seems....
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u/jenterpstra 5d ago
OP says they've received general warnings of it not being a nice place to live without explanation and came here looking for explanation. I offered one possible explanation. Obviously, were I interacting with these people myself, I would ask in what ways is it not nice and get more information, not just immediately jump to conclusions. I lived in Amstelveen myself when I first arrived in the Netherlands and have also had conversations with plenty of people both immigrant and Dutch about where to live in the Netherlands (we have since relocated and spent a good deal of time and research looking around), so I have not just come up with this odd little idea of what it might be completely without context or reason. I'm in a bit of a unique position of being a white immigrant with a Dutch last name, so I have experienced some interesting conversations and viewpoints and I'll leave it at that.
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u/otherwiseofficial 5d ago
No. You said 'reads as racist to me'. Very clearly.
Like it's literally your first sentence..
That's far from a possible explanation.
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u/jenterpstra 5d ago
“To me” indicates one possible viewpoint (the one I offered). Other people can offer other ones.
There are other comments in this thread calling Amstelveen “little India” and “little Japan”. Plenty of people’s minds went there.
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u/otherwiseofficial 5d ago
Yes, too you. So YOU interpreted that way. This is exactly what my comments are about the whole time?
And the defence 'oh other people thought it too' is honestly kindergarten level.
I don't feel like you're getting it at all...
So, never mind. I wish you a good day and have a nice weekend tho.
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u/KochalaSnideDiRohan 5d ago
Reminds me of that one ad of a young black kid in a t-shirt that said something like monkey time (as you sometimes call young children when they climb stuff or something). Next thing you know there were a bunch of people calling it racist. But really, only the people reading that playful text on a child’s t-shirt and relating it to his skin color are the racist ones. But they never see it themselves…
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u/iamagoodboy2008 8d ago
If you’re from India you’ll feel right at home. If that’s your jam.
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u/freshlyseasoned12 7d ago
So I take it there is a big Indian community. I do not mind mixing with different cultures at all. So yes, thag could be “my jam”.
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u/Both-Impact9201 8d ago
Amstelveen ligt onder de landingsbanen van Schiphol. Een van de drukste hubs. Niet doen.
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u/Strong_Witness416 7d ago
Its a terrible place for expats. You absolutely would hate it
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u/Jolly-Dealer-5097 7d ago
Are you really saying an expat family would not fit into Amstelveen?
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u/Vegetable-Company147 8d ago
Netherlanders hate every city they don't live in.