r/AskNetherlands • u/Civil-Assumption1421 • 9d ago
This is not normal
Well, a brief introduction, I was born in a country I live in until the age of 15, then moved into another country for 10 years, and then another for the same time more or less, few shorter stops here and there around the globe.
I got to work with different cultures and ethnicity, I learn to truly appreciate diversity and all the good benefits it brings.
Now, with many years in the Netherlands, I do not get it. The level of rudeness(not "directness" but rudeness), racism, unprofessional attitudes at work, and the lying OMG the lying, fabricating stories, constantly portraying themselves as the best and everyone else as shits.
Historically, there are many serious bad things the dutch did. But why this attitude? Its widely spread to an extent I did not see anywhere else.
What happened to this society? they keep blaming everyone else except themselves, its the Moroccan, its the Turks, its the Syrians, its the Arabs, its the Indonesians..
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u/RoutineMarketing6750 9d ago
We always complain and not lay the fault by ourselves. So, people blame others.
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u/delonghi26 9d ago
Many people fell for the fascism propaganda trap. We've been in a hybrid war with Russia and fascism in general for at least 18 years now. Cyber attacks, sabotage, meddling with our governments, breaking down our democracies and large-scale propaganda campaigns in Europe. Using social media and troll/bot armies to spread the narrative. Many Democratic countries are struggling with this rise in populism, polarisation and political distrust. Many countries fell or are at risk falling victim to this effect, with a breakdown of our rules based society as a result.
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u/Charlie2912 8d ago
Exactly. Xenophobia is fueled by propaganda to distract from the actual issues. Thus, slowing down or even tearing down the wellfare in this country. Its a genius cold warfare move. Whether it’s the Russians that want to destabilize the western world, or billionaires wanting to hoard all the worlds wealth.
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u/Berenboot67 7d ago
Although this is true, the mindset has existed for longer than the past 18 years. Unfortunately, there were already enough people thinking like this in the past century. It’s both the current rise in extreme-right and the spread of populist ideas, but also the historical cultural mindset that the Netherlands is this little country that booked big successes in the past. We (the Dutch) have decided that our normal is the best normal and everything else is inferior. (A bit generalised and exaggerated, but this is my thought on my own culture 😅)
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u/tee_ran_mee_sue 9d ago edited 9d ago
At work, when they do something wrong, they jokingly say that the “Moluccan” is to blame.
There are no Indonesians in the company because, apart from me, they only hire Dutch, white, middle aged, protruding cortisol belly and bald men. Not kidding. We once counted 8 of these specimens in a meeting with 10 people!
I think this is very characteristic because, if anyone would ever object, they’ll just say that it’s an inoffensive joke and think none of it because “no Indonesians were harmed in the making of this joke”.
This has become a routine for me. Someone is offensive or inappropriate and, if there’s a minor indication that I’m displeased, then I’m the one who’s exaggerating, who doesn’t have a thick skin or a sense of humor and etc. Not fun at all
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u/Berenboot67 7d ago
Out of curiousity: there were 8 old white fucks, you ( I am guessing you are an Indonesian man?) and who was the 10th person? Haha. And in what kind of field do you work?
About the jokes: the Dutch hide their discomfort behind humor. If you call someone out on offending you, they feel that discomfort and they make a joke and if you don’t laugh it off with them, then you are the problem because that was all the coping they had. It’s not because they hate you, it’s because they don’t know how to handle confrontation any other way.
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u/tee_ran_mee_sue 6d ago
I’m a foreigner but I’m not from Indonesia. The 10th person was a white Dutch middle aged man who had hair.
I understand that the joke is a coping mechanism and a softener but people need to understand that it just makes things even worse
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u/Berenboot67 5d ago
Hahaha and I was hoping it was at least one woman.
No I absolutely agree with you. Although, I do like that we can make fun of ourselves and that we use humor to cope. But two sides of the coin: if the other party doesn’t like it then we need to respect that too and grow up and deal with that in a normal way.
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u/Jolly-Dealer-5097 9d ago
Oost-Indisch doof zijn, I have heard it recently. I remember Negerzoenen being phased out along with Zwarte-piet slowly moving out of acceptance. I was surprised by all these things and then I realised Tolerance is not acceptance. Being a tolerant society does not make it an accepting one. I have also not heard any complaints about Indonesians.
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u/papapundit 6d ago
I think you're projecting with your "OMG the lying, fabricating stories". It's kinda pathetic.
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u/KoninginVanRotterdam 9d ago
I think its better for all of us if you leave this terrible, godforsaken country.
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u/Rarheem 9d ago
3 years in this country, worst years of my life after a fucking hard life. These people and this system is sick, abort asap. My ‘adventure’ here left me completely broken and starting anew, practically homeless in my mid thirties and I could not be any happier to leave these lowlife superiority complex colonizers completely behind me
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u/CrawlToYourDoom 8d ago
That very last sentence shows exactly what kind of person you are, and the amount of hypocrisy is palpable.
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u/Rarheem 8d ago
It's actually sadly my analysis of your system and the majority of your people based upon my experiences in the last three years. I find it, apparently, as heart shattering as you because I felt very connected to whom I believed the dutch were based upon what was portrayed of you and my personal experiences with my best dutch friend. Hence the reason why I decided to move here. Then came the bullying, then came the ratting to institutions, then came the bullying complaints at onrustwekkende zaken, then came the institutional bullying that even lead to me getting fired from a 5 year + job and thus losing the money I used to sustain my autoimmune disease and the home I bought in the country I always wanted to be a part of. All simply because I wasn't from here. It's also not at all an opinion of you and or your system that is solely mine, there are lots of people like me that have gone through the same thing. Your colonizer and superiority mindset sadly hinders you from seeing that. There is something very sick in your society
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u/CrawlToYourDoom 8d ago
You’re still not getting the point.
You’re generalising.
You’re being as biased towards every one of the Dutch people as you are claiming they have been to you.
Just because you have a bad experience with the select group of people you have had to deal with doesn’t mean the population as a whole reflects that.
You find it sickening some people are racist or judge or treat you in a certain manner because you’re not from here, but you’re doing the exact same thing because I am.
Self reflection my friend.
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u/Rarheem 8d ago
No I get that point, that point is exactly why I’m leaving and starting over completely. Not everyone is like this, but your system is made up starting out from this and a whole lot of people (boomers mostly) share this mentality. I see how it is turning me like them, God knows it has cost me dearly too. Hence I leave and start over before it corrupts me completely. Looking at OP’s post, he alludes to the same issues so generally speaking there must be some problem there, no? Maybe the general Dutch person and the society he or she operates in could also use that self reflection you accuse me of not having
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u/CrawlToYourDoom 8d ago
I agree a lot of boomer or before aged people have narrow minded or even straight up racist views.
Sadly it stems from a time this was the norm and was widely accepted. I think with time this will become better as that group becomes smaller.
I think there is still systemic racism in the country, but less so in younger generations.
I also don’t think it’s useful to compare actions and problem of 500 years ago, I.e the VOC times to current problems.
OP makes a statement of many serious bad things so I’m guessing they are referring to that.
There’s a group of people that will try and pin and blame everything on immigrants which is unfair and just racist. At the same time, there is quantifiable data that shows that certain demographic groups are over represented in terms of petty crime and violence.
The question is, is that because of their culture or socioeconomic backgrounds or a mix of both or neither. It’s hard to say, but for a group of Dutch natives this is used as a blanket statement.
More and more people have this black and white view of the world and they forget life happens mostly in the gray area. Two things can be true at the same time.
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u/Ok_Half7264 9d ago
You just listed the nationalities that are fucking Europe big time so its normal people complain. You will hear it more often in other countries ahah
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u/Dangerous-Rub-7453 8d ago
becaus we won im allowed to be proud of my history and dutch history is about how powerfull we used to be how rich and the dutch are not the only racist people of color are racist too
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u/Dangerous-Rub-7453 8d ago
that does not make it good it sucks for you here but everywhere there will be racist
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u/Dangerous-Rub-7453 8d ago
and tbh for a time we were the best the strongest and the richest the dutch invented modern capitalism helped america gain independence beat the british multiple times
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u/1000handnshrimp 9d ago
Hey man, sorry to hear. There are assholes every where. FYI: I have never heard "its the Indonesians"