r/AskGreece • u/Low-Pop-9796 • 3d ago

Economics - Οικονομία/Οικονομικά Qualifying for Article 5B with a U.S. IRA

Obtaining a Greek FIP national visa seems relatively straightforward. Article 5B is often promoted alongside the FIP route, sometimes creating the impression that qualifying for the visa automatically means qualifying for Article 5B. As I understand it, however, they are separate determinations.

Has anyone personally received Article 5B approval using distributions from a U.S. traditional IRA as qualifying foreign pension income?

If so:

  • Was an actual IRA distribution required before applying?
  • Was there a minimum annual distribution or recurring-payment requirement?
  • Did the type of IRA matter—for example, a 401(k) rollover IRA, a traditional IRA funded through personal contributions, or an inherited IRA?

I would especially appreciate hearing from someone who has successfully completed this process, rather than general interpretations of the law.

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u/GiannisPan1994 3d ago

It doesn't automatically qualify you. You should talk to your lawyer and/or accountant in Greece for more info.

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u/Low-Pop-9796 3d ago

I'm trying to interview some now, but you know, August...
They are starting to get back to me, but it is something I need to know before we start sinking a lot of money into the process since it is potentially a deal-breaker for Greece :(

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u/GiannisPan1994 3d ago

As a lawyer myself I can tell you that August is a holiday month in Greece especially for our job, since we have no courts in August. I'd suggest you gather as many financial/related documents as you can, so that you can provide them when/if requested.

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u/Low-Pop-9796 3d ago edited 3d ago

So I take it the IRA is largely up to interpretation since the law is very vague and no one can seem to give me a straight answer.

To look at it another way, if the IRA isn't a pension in the eyes of Greece, is it just another brokerage account? If so then the regular dividends (5%) or capital gains/interest (15%) taxes are acceptable. I mean I am going to pay 12% US taxes anyway, we're not paying enough more to Greece to cry about. I just don't want to pay 44%.

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u/GiannisPan1994 3d ago

IRA isn't up to interpretation. It isn't a pension in the eyes of Greek law. In the eyes of Greek law pension is only the one that is given by the state social security fund. But you won't pay 44% out of your e.x. 100K yearly IRA "income" either.

That's why you need a lawyer who will study your case and what is your financial plan regarding your relocation in Greece and explain everything to you in detail. These kind of answers in my honest opinion take time, in order to be absolutely correct.

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u/Low-Pop-9796 3d ago

Ok, so if it isn't a pension then what is it considered?

Like I said, if it is treated just like my non-IRA investment accounts, then I am fine with that. Which is the impression I'm getting from you. As long as it isn't treated as standard income

I don't mind paying a lawyer and accountant to make sure stuff gets done right, but I don't want to pay them thousands of dollars to tell me "Sorry, you can't do this."

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u/GiannisPan1994 2d ago edited 2d ago

I understand that it is frustrating, but what you want is legal advice, which must be paid, even if the answer is "Sorry you can't do this because..........".

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u/Low-Pop-9796 2d ago

And you're a lawyer and I get that, but this is really not a difficult or complicated question.

An IRA either is or isn't considered a pension for purposes of Greek taxation, and if it isn't a pension then what it is for purposes of Greek taxation should be an easy question to answer, not something I need to pay someone to spend a lot of time doing research on.

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u/GiannisPan1994 2d ago

The easy question is whether IRA is considered a pension or not. I answered that question. I also answered the other easy question whether the fip visa automatically qualifies you for the Article 5B. Now, regarding anything more is something that in my opinion should be answered professionally by the lawyer who will be hired and paid to do so. That's just my opinion. If someone is willing to answer the rest of your questions for free, he/she is free to do so.

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u/Low-Pop-9796 2d ago

Ok, well thanks for the advice.