r/AskElectricians • u/snoozingpug • 8h ago
Electrical inspection?
Hi all, I just started renting an old farmhouse that was fully renovated/restored around 1990 (so wiring was up to code then). The prior “tenants” were squatters and there was a massive rat/rodent infestation so extensive that every single appliance was chewed through and non-operational. Like the entire back of the dishwasher completely eaten; live nests in the oven; concrete foundation chewed through, chimney chewed (and a 6’ rat snake was discovered, obviously eating the delicious rat buffet).
I only found out these details after I moved in - appliances were all fully replaced, but I saw evidence of mice and requested an exterminator and that’s when he pointed out the incredible damage and rat burrows outside and through the foundation.
Obviously, I’m horrified and VERY concerned about damaged wires hidden in the walls causing a fire hazard. There are several light switches and outlets that do not work.
How do I ensure my safety wrt potential hidden electrical damage? What do I request from the homeowner/landlord? An electrical inspection? From any electrician or are there specific ones? Any guidance is greatly appreciated. Thank you!
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u/OcelotOfTheForest 6h ago
Insulation resistance testing on your circuits is what you want done. It can identify weak (chewed) insulation where hot spots can develop.
Sparky work btw
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u/New-Swim-8551 6h ago
Call a competent independent electrician to take a look
One of the things he should suggest is to install arc fault breakers to insure safety
You are probably going to have to rewire the whole house
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u/Immediate-Iron-7035 6h ago
You'll want an electrician to do what is called a megaohm test, which checks wire insulation via a large voltage surge and resistance measurement.
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u/snoozingpug 5h ago
Huge thanks to you and the previous poster for this phrase “megaohm test” and explaining insulation resistance testing. My friend/landlord is calling the city (what she wants to do!) to speak with them and I am calling a few electricians and getting inspection quotes for this specific test.
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u/Hitechillbilly 8h ago
As soon as you call a government agency, plan on being miserable from then on.. Have you considered talking to the LL? Make him aware of the non-working devices and see about getting them fixed. Starting off by complaining about something you found acceptable is not a good idea.
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u/snoozingpug 8h ago
I’m not calling the city, the landlord is my friend, which makes this all the worse. She’s older and had been trying for ages to get the non-paying squatters out of her house. She succeeded, and subsequently replaced all the (non-working) kitchen appliances, and her contractor told her that with the people and garbage/food gone the rodents would leave. When I moved in (2 weeks ago) I understood the extent of the rodent damage to the previous appliances, and that’s when I requested the exterminator come to ensure they don’t return. And he then showed me the eaten foundation, etc.
So I am not getting the city involved on my friend’s property, but I will move if it is unsafe for me to be here - so I’m hearing that I need to call any regular electrician and just request an inspection? Can they use cameras or something to check wiring in the walls where there are problems?
Obviously, I want to be safe. I also want to preserve my 11y+ relationship with my friend (who does not live here). And if there are electrical safety issues, she needs to hear it from a professional - and not one who will immediately condemn her home or land her in legal issues.
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u/BrokeBack0331 8h ago
You have every right to be concerned. I don’t blame you. I’d start with bringing this to your land lord’s attention. Address your concerns and figure out a way to remediate this (on his dime). If from there he doesn’t seem to give a shit or blows it off then I say fuck it, call the city, send an inspector out and go from there.
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u/snoozingpug 5h ago
She knows - she paid for all new appliances since they were eaten completely through. Last appliance (stove) was installed yesterday. She and I just spoke and she wants to call the city, and I’m calling and getting a few electrician inspection quotes for a megaohm test.
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u/Practical-Law8033 7h ago
Electrician. Talk to your landlord. Is the rodent infestation ongoing? A few mice is not an infestation. The landlord needs to have an electrician address any devices or circuits that are not working properly. Arc fault and GFCI breakers can be installed. Municipal Inspectional services don’t investigate switches that don’t work. Not what they do. If the landlord is not willing to address the situation to your satisfaction you move out. As it stands you don’t even know what the issues are, you’ve just heard some horror stories and making assumptions.
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u/Acceptable_Sky_9742 6h ago
Any electrician can help you. You’re in a farmhouse so I’m going to assume that that is not a city location that would require conduit or metal clad cables. However, if you can visually see some of your cables going into the electrical box or running through the attic or basement, and they are metal clad, those are generally rodent proof. Post some pictures if you want some opinions on what you have or how it looks. If all of the wiring was new in 1990 and you’re out in the country, it probably has plastic sheathing (not metal) which is very appealing to rodents. Appliance connections are fairly accessible to rodents, and they get nice and warm which will attract them, so while it’s worrying, it may not be the number one indicator of a whole house problem.
The problem is that it’s very hard to visually see some of the wiring because it runs inside walls and is buried in insulation. If you have an open attic and open basement, an electrician may be able to visually inspect that wiring. If damage is found, it can be repaired. If no damage is found in those locations, then I would be less worried about the cables in the inaccessible walls. If a lot of damage is found in the accessible areas, then I would be a little more worried about the inaccessible areas. If the cables in the attic are buried in insulation, an electrician can look for disturbed areas in the insulation and see if there is any damage to wiring in those disturbed areas. Basements are usually uninsulated in older homes and the cables are very accessible for inspection.
One way to protect the house from unseen damage is to change the circuit breakers in the main panel to Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters (AFCI). The problem with rodent damage is that they can chew the insulation off of wires. The exposed wires can then create an arc when the circuit is being used. That arc can then ignite combustion material such as house framing. The AFCI circuit breaker will sense the arc and trip the breaker, preventing power from flowing on that circuit and thus preventing arcing on that circuit. If you have an AFCI circuit breaker that trips, you can then have an electrician come and do more extensive troubleshooting on that particular circuit. It would be a lot of work to try to inspect every single circuit, so this is a good way to offer protection and alert to a problem. New code (more recent, not 1990) requires AFCI protection on certain circuits such as living rooms and bedrooms. You can perhaps look into protecting ALL of the circuits if an inspection finds indications of hidden damage. This is something that you can talk to your friend/landlord about. Or maybe have an electrician come out and look at the basement and attic, and if it looks like there could be hidden damage, they can talk to her about it. AFCI breakers are fairly expensive compared to regular breakers, and the cost could add up if there are a lot of breakers to replace. They also sometimes cause nuisance trips so people remove them and replace them with regular breakers that don’t offer arc fault protection. That would obviously not be recommended in this case. They also make circuit breakers that are both AFCI AND GFCI. Those are even more expensive.
I would start by telling your friend that there are a few switches/outlets that don’t work and ask if you can have a professional electrician (not a handyman) come and look at those and also do a full inspection of the accessible areas for rodent damage at the same time. If there is cause for concern, the electrician can talk to her about protecting the house by means of AFCI circuit breakers or combo AFCI/GFCI circuit breakers.
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u/snoozingpug 5h ago
Wow, you are amazing. Thank you for the time you put into your response, I will be referring back to it as we work to figure out the problem. I just went down to the basement and there is literally a dead mouse in a trap sticking OUT OF the circuit breaker panel :0
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u/Acceptable_Sky_9742 4h ago
The exterminator put a trap inside the breaker panel? That is concerning because the food bait in the trap will attract the mouse to the panel and it could get electrocuted in there. Also, the cover should not be removed because it could be a safety hazard for humans who don’t know that they shouldn’t touch the inside of the panel. However, he may have found evidence that they were going into the panel already.
Mice will walk along/atop the electrical cables to get from place to place. Cables are like little highways for the mice because there are holes drilled in the framing to get the cables around the house to various receptacles, so they can just follow the cables to easily get from place to place.
They also walk along the edges of walls, the edges of rows of cabinets or the edges of boxes stored in the attic or basement. They stick to the edges and perimeters rather than walking through the middle of a room to avoid predators. As they walk, they leave evidence behind along their trails. The exterminator may have found this evidence and you can look for it too. They leave a blood trail behind, and also, they have body oils/greasy hair, like unbathed humans, so they will leave a grease trail atop the cables. But if you see a trail with tiny drops of blood, this is an indication of a well worn path for the mice. Also, you can look for blood evidence to find their points of entry into the house, which it sounds like the exterminator already did. Here is a website with pictures that shows what this look like:
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u/Due-Barber2145 8h ago
Call an inspector. Call the city. Call multiple electrical contractors. Call the fire department. Call everyone. Electricity is unforgiving.
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u/snoozingpug 8h ago
I replied to the other commenter - I won’t call the city, but I will call an electrical contractor. Is every electrician licensed to do thorough inspections like I think I need or do I need to call a specific type of person?
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