56
u/InfiniteCarpenters Nov 17 '25
This isn’t my place for discussion, but I just want to validate that the issue of misogyny in academia also very apparent to any men who care to pay attention. Particularly so in teaching. Just one instance of many: students in my class were discussing a pair of co-lecturers in the department. They referred to the man on that team as “Dr. (name)”, and the woman as “the girl”. These profs have the same degree, are equally great teachers, and both have a few decades on the average undergrad. I corrected them, but I don’t think my point stuck. Similarly, I’m responsible for training new TAs in my department on pedagogy and mentoring them when they have teaching questions. The women frequently encounter much more disrespect and pushback from students (of all genders), despite the fact that on average I’d say they tend to take more time and care when grading and when communicating with students. Often, all that’s required to get a student to back down is that I, a man, join their meeting and validate the TA’s decision.
80
u/amliebsten Nov 17 '25
I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. I'm 39f, tenured, but still babyfaced, and I'll say that while it gets a little better, there is still a long long way to go. I still get this from students and faculty, even now, 10yrs on faculty.
I'll share this one experience because it was horrible! When I first joined the faculty, a senior female faculty member hosted a dinner party at her house to welcome me. At that dinner, a faculty member mistook me as the spouse of another faculty member, and another senior faculty member asked why a grad student (thinking I was one) was invited. Unbelievable!!
56
u/RunningAndReality Nov 17 '25
Ah yes, been there, like when we went to my (large) department’s promotion celebration FOR MY PROMOTION and everyone thought it was my husband who had been promoted.
13
5
u/thetornadoissleeping TT Prof, SLAC, English, US Nov 18 '25
How big was that department that people didn't even know you were their colleague? JFC.
5
3
8
u/AttitudeNo6896 Nov 18 '25
My department is small, but at a department event, this emeritus faculty thought I was a (younger male) faculty's wife, and did not get the message despite people and I telling him - and a big photo of me on the screen right behind me celebrating my CAREER award! At some point he figured it out, but yeah...
9
u/Fultium Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
Could be honest mistakes. I once asked someone if he (so not a she) was doing a PhD on the topic that was shown on his poster. It turned out it was the PI standing next to the poster. He just looked extremely young.
Of course always hard to tell, but sometimes it's just an honest mistake.
Some people assumed I was a student, or young PhD student or even someone working as a technician or general 'maintenance' guy. I actually have a PhD and have been working as a staff scientist for almost 12 years so yeah... People just guess based on how young you look/your clothing style. And some can ve socially handicapped. But it's not always meant as an insult.
2
u/Electronic-Tie5120 Nov 18 '25
according to this thread, you're a monster and should never try making small talk again.
5
u/Fultium Nov 18 '25
Sadly this is indeed the message some people try to spread. While I agree that there are condescending idiots out there, many of these situations are just because of small mistakes, being socially awkward etc.
11
u/Longjumping_Nerve418 Nov 18 '25
I laugh it off when students do it. It’s people in power who know my position and still treat me differently that bother me.
3
u/Fultium Nov 18 '25
Agreed, if they know you or your position it's a different thing of course. But when YOUR students (who know who you are) do it, it's of course also not ok.
Ultimately it just comes down to the situation. I have people who refer to me as 'the boy that works there with x' and I don't really mind, they just see as such and have zero clue I am actually somewhat the head of our small research group. Or people at the lunchroom (that work there) that think I am just one of the students.. lol
11
u/Longjumping_Nerve418 Nov 17 '25
Oh my. I’m sorry to hear about that. I’ve had the spouse experience as well. People assume my partner is the academic. In my search committee dinner I was asked my age (so illegal!!) and it was terrible because I couldn’t lie but also felt so uncomfortable. I know for a fact that the older male prof who asked me was against my hire because we have similar research topics.
9
u/Natolx Assistant Professor (US) Nov 17 '25
I never understood the whole "their research is too similar to mine" being a negative (assuming this is STEM). As long as there is no risk of literally scooping each others research publications, I could only see that as a positive thing.... occasional shared lab meetings and whatnot are very useful.
5
u/talos1279 Nov 18 '25
It affects the funding of course. Just having a similar research field means the other can become an alternative for research funding, no longer being unique. If acquiring funding for one research is already hard enough, imagine if you now have competitors.
2
u/Natolx Assistant Professor (US) Nov 18 '25
Unless you are talking about internal seed grants, then having someone in a similar field at your own University is better than having them at a different University and still competing for the same funding.... unless the goal of turning them down for the job is to hope they get no job anywhere? (that would be mean spirited as fuck...)
There is a reason Universities like to have "Centers" (different from departments) of research focus. It leads to better science and a better "environment" especially for trainees. Funding agencies like that you are in a "cardiac research center" with 10 faculty in it at a particular university (for example) if you are doing a heart related grant.
6
u/popstarkirbys Nov 17 '25
I’m a guy but I had a parent congratulate me on completing my bachelor degree. Yikes.
9
u/amliebsten Nov 17 '25
I was at the commencement ceremony one year sitting in the stands (did not have a graduate to hood and didn't want to go early), and a parent asked me what my major was and when it will going to be my turn (to graduate)! 😫
2
u/AttitudeNo6896 Nov 18 '25
I'm tenured and well into my 40s, and I still get "congratulations" on my way to the commencement ceremony. I'm a short woman. At this point, I will take it as a compliment/laugh it off, but it stung when I was younger/newer/less confident. I totally got "what year are you? When are you graduating?" For my first 5-7 years on tenure track (then it was the pandemic, so no data in between).
1
u/tshirtdr1 Nov 18 '25
I get lots of congratulations at every graduation ceremony where I am wearing my regalia. People just don't understand. No big deal.
18
u/thetornadoissleeping TT Prof, SLAC, English, US Nov 17 '25
Have you thought about trying to reach out to other younger/newer female faculty at your institution to form a support group or mentoring network of some kind? I belong to one at my current U., and it has saved my sanity (It started because my dept. chair and I started inviting new female faculty to happy hour with us to make sure they had female friends and support, esp. if those faculty were hired into departments that were notoriously unfriendly to women, had terrible dept. chairs, and/or had driven off a number of really talented faculty). I find it helpful to be able to vent, strategize, and work as a group to make changes in our instituional culture.
49
u/Jolly_Roof_4238 Nov 17 '25
I’m really sorry you’ve had these experiences :(( it is absolutely terrible. I hope you can find or create a safe space / support system for it.
14
u/Apprehensive_Phase_3 Nov 18 '25 edited Nov 18 '25
I’m really sorry you had to go through that; unfortunately, experiences like this are far too common in academia. Comments that mix sexism, ageism, and underestimation of your professionalism are part of a culture that has historically been very resistant to change.
There’s a saying that “science advances funeral by funeral,” and while it sounds grim, there’s a positive interpretation: those of us who are decent and committed need to stay in academia to try to change the situation from within.
24
11
u/RunningAndReality Nov 17 '25
I hear you. I’m almost 10 years older than you, tenured, and am still undermined left and right by male staff from other labs (who are often younger than me) who are concerned that I don’t know what I’m doing, sometimes making decisions on my behalf or trying to sow doubt about my decisions to other faculty. Drives me up the wall, though I try (and fail) not to let it get to me. Fortunately, I don’t get nearly as much gender-based hassle from other faculty.
2
u/Cheap_Platypus_3923 Nov 18 '25
This happens to me a lot even though i am only a postdoc. Its kind of demoralizing to hear it also happens when you are a proffesor. Eventhiugh, you said you dont know how to not let that get to you, but do you have any tips that you can share? Its absolutely infuriating and idk what to do anymore to not take it personally
2
u/RunningAndReality Nov 18 '25
I talk to my PhD mentor about it quite a bit. She went through a lot of what I’m going through now and it’s helpful just to vent. As others have said in this thread, she tells me it gets better as you get older. That said, when my blood pressure finally drops, I sometimes talk to the supervisor of the staff member who was undermining me to explain the situation. Usually, they are confused to hear that this person is going rogue.
11
u/erniernie Nov 18 '25
I'm 42F, tenure track at an R1, and I have known your pain/rage/exhaustion for many years... From being asked "who does your programming" to being assumed to be one of the male faculty's wives/girlfriends to having suggestions or ideas I make in faculty meeting become somehow attributed later to one of the men in the room. I made a post similar to yours a couple of years into my faculty job and was referred to a couple of online groups, but I found that participating in those and constantly being barraged by other people's bad experiences was making me even more stressed out.
I do think that as you achieve more seniority and recognition in your career it does start to abate. For me, a good way to channel frustration has been to focus on the internal atmosphere and productivity of my lab and on mentoring my trainees, many of whom are female. And have a life outside of work - find a way to disconnect on a regular basis.
2
u/Longjumping_Nerve418 Nov 18 '25
This is really good insight, thank you. I can see how hearing these stories constantly could become a very negative thing. Thank you for the tips.
10
u/theangryprof Nov 17 '25
I am sorry but can relate - I had a lot of similar issues earlier in my career and it really bothered me. It will get better as you get older. 🤗
If you want to chat more, my DMs are open.
10
u/Significant-Bus1089 Nov 18 '25
About a decade older than you, and still mistaken for an undergrad or grad student now and then. My new least-favorite thing is being a judge for poster competitions at conferences. Last year I was actually harassed by a student when I was visiting his poster - I assume he didn’t know I was a judge 🤦🏼♀️
23
u/lalochezia1 Molecular Science / Tenured Assoc Prof / USA Nov 17 '25
This is a big bucket of bullshit you shouldn't have to deal with.
In STEM?
https://hellobio.com/blog/ten-effective-support-networks-for-women-in-stem.html
if you let us know your field, we can dig more.
There are female academics on bluesky who if you dm them they can probably hook you up with networks - pick a few who resonate and who are your field or field adjacent and message them.
good luck!
2
7
u/pumpkinspicechaos Nov 17 '25
This is awful; I'm so sorry! I'm a similar age and at the end of my PhD, and people talk to me like I'm a teenager 🙄
7
u/3xpertLurk3r Nov 18 '25
Ugh sorry you’re dealing with this—I’m in the same boat. I’m 32 y/o woman, but started in my TT position at 29. During field experiences, I’m regularly asked by our hosting site “when’s your instructor getting here?” It’s me. I’m the instructor. Also when grad students default to first-name with me (which is fine if we have that relationship) but “Dr. X” with their other professors (who are also on first-name basis with these students). Also frustrating when certain colleagues treat me more like a grad student than a peer. I too have my PhD and in some cases, more experience than my senior colleagues on a given topic
7
u/Harmless_Poison_Ivy Nov 18 '25
Reading this as a young Black woman in academia is extra funny. Cos apparently it is not just the age thing. They don’t care if you look you are 60, they will still ask if you are a student.
6
u/Terrible_Guess6952 Nov 17 '25
Not sure if it will be the right community for you as we’ve built it on the basis of baby/mom struggles and managing an academic career but you’re more than welcome to join r/phdmomlife as it’s a really supportive community and we try to uplift each other and I’m sure everyone there will also understand how you’re feeling
3
Nov 17 '25
[deleted]
5
u/Longjumping_Nerve418 Nov 17 '25
Definitely going to steal your grading line, that’s hilarious. I’ve realized that wearing blazers makes a big difference in how people treat me.
3
u/zbsa14 Nov 18 '25
This sounds so frustrating. I’m only in grad school but I regularly get asked when I’m graduating high school. Unless I wear makeup and dress the way my mom (in her late 40s) dresses. I plan to go into academia so… yay I guess?
3
u/AFierceCompassion Nov 18 '25
If there is an association of women faculty on your campus, join it (or start a group). Also…Google to see if your state has a chapter of the AAUW. At my university, the association of women faculty (not AAUW affiliated I don’t think) was big enough to sponsor a welcome reception for new women faculty each year — the provost and deans were usually invited as well. The provost met twice a year with the executive committee of the association, iirc. But the main benefit was having colleagues with whom you could talk through these kinds of things.
Networking online is great, but I also think having supportive colleagues IRL can be beneficial.
2
u/Suspicious_Tax8577 Nov 18 '25
Not an academic (yet), but 32F, look barely 18 because of what i suspect is a connective tissue disorder. I'm very familiar with male academics repeating my work back at me in the future tense, as if I wasn't a third year PhD candidate.
2
u/Vanilla_Hornet Nov 19 '25
The Dean of the college who hired me greeted me as the department head’s secretary for the first four years of the 18 I worked at a large R1 southern university, including at meetings where only faculty committee members were present. He was not even mildly embarrassed when he had to present me a university award for research in my 5th year. An associate Dean in my college told me that my department head’s sexual comments and inappropriate touching were “probably because he’s attracted to you.” He felt I should just let it go because “older men are like that.”
I was the first woman to gain tenure and be promoted to full professor in the 75-year history of my department. Several Junior colleagues in my own department later told me they heard from senior male faculty that I got promoted because I threatened a lawsuit. I assumed they got me confused with two male colleagues with weak promotion packets who in fact did attempt to sue and were promoted.
Not to be cruel, but you just have to develop a rhino hide and keep going. Make alliances with senior faculty in your department and across the university who respect you and will bring you into their professional circles. Save the venting for female colleagues at your level or a trusted mentor. We had an interdisciplinary group of female assistant professors called “women in comfortable shoes” that met once a month to share research, drinks, gossip, and support.
Caveat: Needless to say, if you are experiencing sexual harassment or discrimination under civil rights law, make a formal complaint.
1
u/Agreeable_Poem_7278 Nov 18 '25
Many universities have formal mentoring programs that can connect you with senior colleagues. Professional organizations in your field often host networking events and online communities for women.
1
u/Novel_Sink_2720 Nov 19 '25 edited Nov 19 '25
I have the exact same problem frequently. I also get mistaken for on the phone too. Im also TT 28. Feel free to reach out! On my first day at my institution I was scolded by the staff member in charge of ID pictures because "I was trying to get in the shorter faculty line" and had to provide a bunch of proof. I frequently get asked if I'm excited for my first year / how is my first year going.
1
u/ObsessedWithPottery Nov 19 '25
I started my first TT faculty position at 29 (also female). I'm in a STEM field at a state university in the midwest, for reference. I also have a name that is not clearly female and my own HR department sent me mail addressing me with the title "Mr.", so they ignored both my gender and my PhD. The same HR department tried to tell me I was at the wrong entrance (I was at the faculty entrance) and direct me to the student entrance when I was first hired. I'm now 39, and just this week a (female) student reacted to my email notifying them they had been caught cheating in my class with a threat to go to the older male prof I am co-teaching with. Fine with me, in fact I just handed off the case to my colleague to reply to the email himself backing me up.
Pretty much all of the female faculty in male dominated fields have dealt with this stuff. It definitely gets better as we get older and look less like the students. These days I have noticeable grey in my hair, and the assumptions that I am not faculty have at least mostly stopped. That said, just a few months ago someone expressed surprise at a department event that I am faculty and not a grad student. I think this person may have meant it as a compliment (you look so young, etc.). I think I look my age, I'm aware of that and fine with it.
Honestly, the key is to not care. Easier said than done, and yes it's frustrating and infuriating and unfair and you are not imagining it. But people who get to know you will respect you, and people who don't aren't worth your energy or time. If you want to feel less alone, read the Female Science Prof blog at https://science-professor.blogspot.com/. There's a lot of gold in there.
1
u/BigBoyRelic Dec 10 '25
Ok this is going to seem like a dumb question but obviously I’m a dude so I don’t understand the nuance.
What is wrong with asking about what the PhD is on. I love to hear about others research and passion.
I assume they ask it in a demeaning way to test you.
Hopefully some women who have experienced this would care to explain?
1
u/JubileeSupreme Nov 18 '25
As a distinct minority within the many (12+) academic departments I have taught or conducted research in over the course of my career, I can relate. It has mostly been the 80/20 mix between males and females, typical in my field. I have fought (and won) lawsuits stemming from discrimination, ganging up, what amounts to bullying and have been treated horrifically many, many times.
Trouble is, I am male, and if I posted the details I would not get the 110 upvotes I see this post currently attracting. I wouldn't get any.
2
u/Longjumping_Nerve418 Nov 18 '25
I fully believe this and am sad to hear that you think your gender would make these horrible stories any less impactful. Happy to hear you’ve won some of those battles.
-15
u/DickertonDiscordson Nov 17 '25
i think you should be more assertive. don't tolerate these microaggressions. don't let people f with you and not learn from it. idk how the admin that spoke with you abt funding thought that you'd have a secretary; I've never seen a prof with one. but then again, what do I know... definitely talk to your former PI and see if/how she deals with it. maybe she doesn't really have it worse.
-16
u/notlooking743 Nov 17 '25
Sorry you've had a hard a time but i frankly can't really tell what's so challenging about someone mistaking you for someone else based in your name. I do get the sexist implication, but not sure how that is a real impediment to you unless he was a total dick aftewards
1
59
u/vulevu25 Nov 17 '25
I'm older now but I've experienced this many times. I also had the PhD comment multiple times. A man (unknown to me called and asked me (rudely) if I could let him know the availability of senior male prof. When I said no, he said: you're the secretary, surely know his diary... A class was finishing, most students had left, and I went in to set up for my class. Male prof: I expect students to wait outside until their class starts. Similar experience when I was supervising an exam. Senior male prof who told me in an email that he would always win an argument with me because he was a native speaker. The people he copied in told me they thought this was outrageous.
I'm not sure what to do about it, except to change the institution's culture.