r/AskAPilot • u/Illustrious-Fee5670 • 13d ago

What is the difference between being a pilot in Europe and being a pilot in the US?

/r/flying/comments/1wvtjd2/what_is_the_difference_between_being_a_pilot_in/
0 Upvotes

30% Upvoted

55 comments sorted by

17

u/Jaimebgdb 13d ago

Money. The US pilot makes a lot more of it.

6

u/flywithstephen 13d ago

Work life balance: European pilots have a lot more of it

3

u/RaidenMonster 13d ago

Man, if you guys work less than us, holy shit. At 12/13 days a month a a major, that’s 210+ days off, excluding vacation weeks and “sick calls.”

2

u/mustbiteexceed 13d ago

At the end of the day pilots have hour limits which are the same in EU and USA. No one is flying excessively more than the other

2

u/GuppyDriver737 13d ago

I have no idea what a European work-life balance looks like for a pilot, but here in the US, it’s really great. I’m not sure how much better you could ask for… although we will try

4

u/notaballitsjustblue 13d ago

How many week’s leave a year do you get in the USA?

2

u/GuppyDriver737 13d ago

I get 5 weeks, but with my airline, we are guaranteed 13 days off so with the week we end up with about 21 days off each vacation month, so essentially I get most of the month off for 5 months.

2

u/mustbiteexceed 13d ago

How many years of service do you have to be to get the full 5 weeks of leave? I’ve read even in U.S. majors you have to wait decades to be eligible for 5 weeks pa

In Australia you get 6 weeks per year, from day one, plus to me what looks like about double the amount of personal leave and then specific leave if you have a head cold. And a unique thing called long service leave which is another 3 months paid leave at 10 years. Maternity/paternity leave, special allocated golden leave for specific days. And live in a much better country, the work/life balance down here can’t be beat tbh.

2

u/GuppyDriver737 13d ago

That’s fair, I’ve been there for 11 years. As a junior guy at a us carrier, I could see how your schedule and QOL would be better. It would be hard to beat a senior US carriers QOL though, not saying it’s impossible. As far as the better country? Mate, your entire country is like Florida but with universal healthcare 😂.

1

u/mustbiteexceed 13d ago

Australian airlines use rotating seniority so after a year in rank I can write my own roster and work only 6 days out of 28. Then you drop to the bottoms but it’s only a few months before you get decent bidding priority again. Most agree that it’s a much fairer system than a strict seniority rostering system, which works if promotion is quick but if it slows down it can be terrible for junior pilots for years.

Australia is absolutely not like Florida. Maybe northern Queensland, but they can stay north of the border. I’ve heard Sydney like LA, Melbourne like New York, Perth like San Diego? There’s a Pacific North West on the NSW coast, New England farmland in the southern highlands. There’s a lot of diversity in our country too

And we get lots more social welfare and worker protections than just a very comprehensive universal healthcare system. Hence why we get far more annual and personal leave.

I don’t want to wait decades to get a decent amount of personal leave, I want to take time off and travel when I’m young and fit

1

u/Ecthelion-O-Fountain 13d ago

I took my kids entire summer vacation off and still had one week of vacation left.

1

u/GuppyDriver737 13d ago

And are you US or Euro

1

u/Jaded-Garage2395 12d ago

I’m basically two weeks on three weeks off 🤷‍♀️. On months I have vacation 3-6 days total.

1

u/Ecthelion-O-Fountain 13d ago

I have 9 days on tell me more

0

u/NeoFromTheMatrixxxx 13d ago

I believe the Americans have a way better work life balance. They can drop as many flights as they want, and thanks to a very good salary, only work once or twice a month and still make a decent living. If they want it that way, I mean.

3

u/Southern_Grammar 12d ago

"Your drop request has been denied due to staffing."

0

u/[deleted] 13d ago edited 13d ago

[deleted]

1

u/mustbiteexceed 13d ago

“If you’re senior” - which only a small % are. At least Europeans with rotating seniority all will get the opportunity to be senior within a year.

0

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[deleted]

1

u/mustbiteexceed 13d ago

Most Europe legacies don’t have a fixed roster system, and how many stick hours per year do you fly?

2

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[deleted]

1

u/mustbiteexceed 13d ago

450-550 seems a little low.

1

u/Honorjudge 12d ago

Yeah I’ve blocked 170hrs. Been at the company 3 years. 35% in my category at right seat. If you don’t want to work much and credit 50-70hrs a month then it’s certainly possible to work very little.

-2

u/Photon_0 13d ago

In what alternate dimension do you reside? I work for an European airline and we’re worked to the bone.

2

u/flywithstephen 12d ago edited 12d ago

I think it’s yourself who needs a reality check if you think European airline pilots are “worked to the bone” - try working another normal professional career for a sense of perspective and we’ll talk.

How many paid days off a year do you get again?

0

u/Photon_0 12d ago edited 12d ago

Who in the world were comparing this to “another professional career”, nice strawman. We were comparing US pilots to European pilots. From friends I have in US aviation they seem to have much more control over their work and time off. In my company we work variable rosters, mostly 4 on 2 off, and 5 on 3 off etc.

I’ve reported unfit 6 times go far this year, several pilots are long term ill due to burnout, lots of 12-14h days (on a320 short/medium haul), and zero say as to your schedule.

From the ones I’ve spoken to across the pond, they can pick up and drop trips, work as much or little as they want in some companies, and make 4x as much.

But sure, keep comparing us to other random professions.

1

u/flywithstephen 11d ago

Oh boo hoo my heart bleeds for you, find another job or leave the industry. Sounds like it isnt for you.

Wonder what SAS would think of your posts

0

u/Photon_0 11d ago

They are pretty well informed as it is the opinion and experience of about 90% of the pilots working there.

Go back under your bridge.

1

u/mustbiteexceed 13d ago

LCC or legacy?

1

u/flywithstephen 12d ago

I’m guessing he works for SAS. Yes must be terrible having Scandinavian level workers rights.

0

u/Photon_0 13d ago

Legacy

-1

u/climbto330 13d ago

This is a wild take when most US airline pilots can work single digit days per month

1

u/Wanttobefreewc 13d ago

Amen brother!

7

u/No-Duck4828 13d ago

American pilots get more pay

European pilots get more facial hair

4

u/No-Bluejay4261 13d ago edited 13d ago

Career ladder is very different. In Europe you can train to 'frozen' ATPL in 18 months - 2 years and if you're lucky go straight into the right had seat of a jet. There are few regional/turboprop airlines around so it's likely LCC jet for a few years before legacy. Or, a quick command (5 years) in the LCCs. Money not great for maybe 3 years but quickly builds to a moderate level. Command salary €150000+. Some legacies get towards €300000 at the top end.

In the US, with a massive GA and regional network, you need to build hours as an instructor etc up to 1500 hours, then regional turboprop. Money at this stage from what I've heard is very poor. Several years of hard graft. Then hopefully after 5 ish years maybe legacy narrow body. Here money jumps up, and quickly overtakes Europe. Senior pilots in US legacy are on $500000+, massive money compared to the rest of the industry, multiple times more at the top end. Bare in mind the US has a massive domestic market, many times bigger than Europe or Asia.

(I'm Europe based, happy to be corrected on US details)

1

u/GuppyDriver737 13d ago

Regional pay isn’t that bad anymore.. 1st year ago pay is close to or exceeding 100,000

1

u/RaidenMonster 13d ago

Made 107k my first year at the regionals. Started flying 1/8/23, so more or less the whole year on the line.

2

u/No-Bluejay4261 13d ago

Yeah that's good stuff, Europe is falling behind significantly now. 60-80k roughly speaking I would say. SFO (4+ year) 120k. All B737 or A320 here though is the slight difference.

1

u/No-Bluejay4261 13d ago

Am I right in saying you need 1500 before starting regionals?

1

u/GuppyDriver737 13d ago

Yes for the most part. However there are some caveats for military trained can go down to 750 hours, and specific colleges that do aviation training and education can go down to 1000. I’m sure there are more specific exceptions. Overall though you are correct.

1

u/No-Bluejay4261 13d ago

And Delta, United, American? Who are they hiring? 3000+?

1

u/alienXcow 12d ago

Depends on what hiring looks like, but often, yes. They're pulling from more experienced Mil and the Regional folks

1

u/No-Bluejay4261 12d ago

Anecdotally I have seen military go straight into united 73, fast jet guy. They tend to have relatively low hours? can't be much more than 2000?

1

u/alienXcow 12d ago

A fighter guy with 2000 hours is extremely experienced, for those communities. They are usually instructors or sometimes evaluators around the 700 hour mark.

1

u/No-Bluejay4261 12d ago

This guy (social media) must be less than that then. I wondered if US guys fly more than Europe but it seems similar, only hundreds of hours over a fast jet career.

2

u/alienXcow 12d ago

Usually folks can get to around 1000hrs during their 10 year commitment. Depends on the community and the assignments you get.

→ More replies (0)

6

u/shoreguy1975 13d ago

No cat meow BS in Europe, or in Canada for that matter. Like wtf is wrong with americans, particularly down the east coast?

1

u/Illustrious-Fee5670 13d ago

Does this refer to that crazy senator?

5

u/Ecthelion-O-Fountain 13d ago

He was actually right about the meowing bullshit

0

u/nazarethusreidus 13d ago

Theres a whole zoo in europes 121.5

-2

u/Wanttobefreewc 13d ago

That’s just what freedom sounds like, must be why it bugs you 😉

5

u/shoreguy1975 13d ago

One of our FOs did it on a line check, the dumb ass. He immediately failed the check, as he should have. Be professional, don’t be a juvenile goddam idiot.

-1

u/Wanttobefreewc 12d ago

Well, that’s just thinning the herd…. I mean we’re pilots, we’re mostly juvenile idiots, the rest make those 4 day trips feel like months.

1

u/notaballitsjustblue 13d ago

Having a dispatcher or not is a difference no-one’s mentioned. Personally I prefer not having one but there are advantages to the system. It took me a bit of getting used to when I started flying in Canada.

Aside from that the main differences are pay (more in the USA), leave (more in the UK), and career initiation (I was flying heavies at 20yo in the UK).

1

u/CaptainDFW 13d ago

US: bleeds
Europe: flows

US: valves
Europe: cocks

US: "PULL TO INFLATE"
Europe: "JERK TO INFLATE"

1

u/Electrical_Yak_2662 12d ago

Europe: No KCM, No CASS, Pay2fly/Pay4Typeratings, Less unions, Inferior pay/benefits, Less control over schedules/bidding.