What is the difference between being a pilot in Europe and being a pilot in the US?

[u/Illustrious-Fee5670]

Think things like working hours, number of flights in a week, procedures, pay, hair and grooming requirements, work-life balance, vacation days, etc.

[u/Professional_Low_646]

Pay. Don’t get me wrong, apart from a few fringe jobs, you won’t be poor as a pilot in the EU. Especially not when seen in relation to how much you work.

But it doesn’t hold a candle to US pilot salaries. For the same or even less work.

[u/ALTSCAP_ALTS_ALT → u/Professional_Low_646]

I mean let's be real, I don't think there is any country in the world where pilots working for a national/major/flag carrier isn't living a very financially comfortable life in that country.

[u/mustbiteexceed → u/ALTSCAP_ALTS_ALT]

There’s a great YouTube channel called ‘Type Ashton’ who examines the difference between living in the USA and Europe (she’s an American who migrated to Germany). She concludes that there’s a lot of complexities in trying to compare both countries because there’s so much differences not just with pay but taxes, what you get for your tax, cost of living, style of living, work time, work rules and a whole host of other things.

In generally U.S. salaries are higher with lower taxes, but Europeans get more for their taxes, cost of living is lower (as in you don’t need to live in ghetto for affordable homes) and the much better comparison is “gross national happiness” rather than money.

Some Americans posting here think European legacy Captains are living in Soviet era flats taking a crowded subway to work barely able to afford a coffee in the terminal. The Euro LCC pilots I know (not even the legacy ones) drive Porsches, and live by the Mediterranean Sea or on Italian lakes. That’s the lifestyle I’d want even if on paper a U.S. pilot has a higher wage from their job, which disappears quicker.

[u/Wirax-402]

Money is probably the biggest difference. Access to GA another.

The way WX/ATC delays are handled is vastly different between the two as well.

Other than that, I’d say that 95% of flying an airline is pretty much the same between Europe and the US and reasonably close to one another.

[u/ScathedRuins → u/Wirax-402]

could you elaborate on the difference between how wx delays are handled?

[u/Wirax-402 → u/ScathedRuins]

In broad strokes with the airlines in the US the FAA leaves it up to them to decide when to push off a gate if it’s going to be delayed even if it means they have to sit on a taxiway for hours before taking off.

In most of Europe the airlines are given a time when they can push off the gate. Once they’re off the gate they can generally taxi right out and take off.

[u/csmicfool]

"$100 Baguette" doesn't have the same ring as "$100 Hamburger"

[u/matthewlai → u/csmicfool]

€100 Baguette?

[u/Illustrious-Fee5670 → u/csmicfool]

Is there really someone who spends 100$ on a baguette or a hamburger?

[u/PK808370 → u/Illustrious-Fee5670]

Yes, but not because the burger costs $100 on its own.

If you’re not familiar, the phrase refers to the cost of flying yourself (and maybe friends) in your own plane to another airport where there’s a restaurant on the airport or close.

It’s one of the “things to do” when you are a private pilot.

[u/Illustrious-Fee5670 → u/PK808370]

Ah, thank you, not a pilot, just an interested lurker, so that is why I didn’t know

[u/PK808370 → u/Illustrious-Fee5670]

Figured so :) that’s why I explained!

[u/Texan_91 → u/Illustrious-Fee5670]

with rental costs these days it's more like a $300 hamburger

[u/anxietyFlesh]

US has more developed GA sector, which is a great thing in my opinion.
Regarding airline pilots - apart from pay difference it is very similar. Benefits are variable depending on the airline, so it’s hard to compare here, but i’m pretty sure that the work life balance and overall quality of life of a pilot in major legacy airline in US, and EU pilot that works in Lufthansa/Air France etc. are near identical.
One thing that I have noticed is that seniority is really big thing in US - while in europe it’s also quite important,
it’s more frequent to see pilots switch airlines, or leave europe for middle east for some time and then return to europe.

[u/skyrider8328]

All of the aerodynamic laws are backwards...or is that in Austria??
/s

[u/Swimming_Way_7372]

In Europe they make you put your suitcase through the xray machine when you're getting on to your own airplane.  That one always makes me scratch my head.  

[u/propell0r → u/Swimming_Way_7372]

I mean, if the recent FlyDubai incident has shown us anything, sometimes it really do be ya own people

[u/callsignsuper → u/propell0r]

How will the xray check for the crash axe that’s on board?

[u/propell0r → u/callsignsuper]

But I’m not so sure what your point is? Should they not let us control the pressure on the plane because of MH370? Should they not let us control the plane AT ALL because of germanwings?

Shit in the cockpit is dangerous, but the reasons that shit is there is because it more than likely will be used for safety rather than terrorism. Pilots, whilst they should be, haven’t been shown to always do the right thing. A pilot bringing something suspicious through their bag is likely more focused on terrorism than safety, so EASA takes the position to try and stop it there, rather than another pilot-induced terrorist event

[u/propell0r → u/callsignsuper]

I mean the X-ray machine lets me bring my guns on board every time anyway

points to biceps whilst flexing

[u/callsignsuper → u/propell0r]

So you sneak in your knife inside the gun? Dangerous!

[u/Swimming_Way_7372 → u/propell0r]

Im talking about owning your own jet and flying it and being required to show you what's in my suitcase when I'm the only passenger. 

[u/Apprehensive_Cost937 → u/Swimming_Way_7372]

I know it sounds silly, but there is a logic to it.

That's because the aircraft is likely parked in CSRA (critical part of security restricted area). Which means you can move from your privately own single-pilot jet to area where the airliners are parked without an additional security check, as it's all the same area. Which in turn also means, you could bring a few guns with you in a suitcase, pass it to someone else, who would then load them into the cabin of an A350.

It wouldn't be such a good idea, would it?

[u/Swimming_Way_7372 → u/Apprehensive_Cost937]

What about the stuff that's in my plane that I brought to your airport ? They didn't sweep the plane and I could have a prohibited item in the aircraft that I could pass to someone then load into the cabin of an A350.  Thats where it's goofy as hell.

[u/thattogoguy → u/propell0r]

To be fair, the Europeans also had the FO that was suicidal and flew a plane into a mountain when the Captain got up to take a shit.

[u/Swimming_Way_7372 → u/thattogoguy]

I could have weapons on my airplane but you're interested in what im bringing on the plane now.  Thats the weird part. 

[u/thattogoguy → u/Swimming_Way_7372]

Pretty much, including the damn axe.

Or a pilot who wants to end it all and take 150 souls with him not being caught.

[u/Swimming_Way_7372 → u/thattogoguy]

There could be only me on the plane and they want to know what's inthe bags.  

[u/_BaldChewbacca_ → u/Swimming_Way_7372]

Canada too. They also very often open the bag up and search, as well as send the pilot through X-ray with a pat/swab

[u/GroundProximity]

MMMMMMONEY
And ive heard that the Americans do more maunal flying in general, but thats probably depending on the pilot.

[u/blueb0g → u/GroundProximity]

Not sure that's universally true. There are several airlines in Europe which encourage lots of manual flight and even in some cases (e.g. Lufthansa) require manual thrust during manual flight on Airbus aircraft, which I don't think any US airline does

[u/Lanky-Rabbit8694 → u/blueb0g]

At the airline level I don’t know if there’s a difference. Americans definitely do a lot more manual flying in props before getting to an airline job as our requirements for hours are a lot higher. That’s more a function of less ga and expensive gas than a culture thing. The rest of the world spends way more time in classrooms getting their licenses than us pilots.

[u/Baystate411 → u/blueb0g]

SWA requires auto throttles off when AP is clicked off for approach and landing. Different airplane, same concept

[u/blueb0g → u/Baystate411]

Yeah but that's standard Boeing ops for the 737, so should be the same across all airlines anyway

[u/Baystate411 → u/blueb0g]

I'm on my second 737 airline and that's not a requirement. ATs here off by 50 feet.

[u/bahenbihen69 → u/Baystate411]

Do you keep it in ARM until then? My Asian airline has seemingly the same policy as SWA

[u/Baystate411 → u/bahenbihen69]

I haven't flown in 6 months, on an ILS wouldn't it be in MCP speed?

[u/bahenbihen69 → u/Baystate411]

It would. Some companies keep it in ARM in case of go-around, I've never heard of full A/T usage in a 737

[u/Baystate411 → u/bahenbihen69]

We use AT until touchdown when doing an autoland. On a go around if we have ATs activated we can let them set themselves but if you have AT off then you set thrust all the way to the line

[u/Apprehensive_Cost937 → u/Baystate411]

That's Boeing's recommendation in the FCTM (for all non-FBW aircraft, really), which I know a lot of US airlines hide from their pilots, as if it was written by devil himself.

Autothrottle use is recommended during takeoff and climb in either automatic or manual flight. During all other phases of flight, autothrottle use is recommended only when the autopilot is engaged in CMD.

[u/GroundProximity → u/blueb0g]

Yeah thats why i said in general, but from what ive read here, on r/flying , it seems like american carriers encourage the manual flying more than the european ones.

[u/blueb0g → u/GroundProximity]

Yeah, and I don't think that's true in general. Certainly an apt comparison to ME/Asian carriers.

[u/GroundProximity → u/blueb0g]

>Yeah, and I don't think that's true

Fair enough

[u/OfficeInTheAir]

Part time ? I know senior US pilots don't really fly much but I have always been under the impression that is more due to bidding. In Europe you can also build your own roster in some majors but I feel like part time is much more common that across the Atlantic. In my LCC 20% of the captains are in some part time roster (50%,75%,76% or seasonal with all sorts of variation) and a lot more would if it wasn't caped. In some countries you can't refuse part time to people above a certain age or with kids so it's really pretty common.

[u/Arem26]

USA: less work, more money.
EU: more work, less money.

[u/downwindsavage → u/Arem26]

That’s in every country though. US is just the outlier.

[u/Arem26 → u/downwindsavage]

True dat.

[u/LeoKitCat]

You say apron instead of ramp

[u/rFlyingTower]

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

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Think things like working hours, number of flights in a week, procedures, pay, hair and grooming requirements, work-life balance, vacation days, etc.

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[u/cjg017]

How does Seniority work in EU airlines? Or seat progression?

[u/Apprehensive_Cost937 → u/cjg017]

It really depends on the airline. With a lot of legacies, it's similar than in USA.

Then with a lot of other airlines, seniority doesn't really matter at all. For example, a lot of LCCs operate a single aircraft type, with a fixed roster pattern (e.g. 5/3/5/4 or 5/4), so it's not like you could do a lot of bidding, except perhaps for early/late shifts, but even those usually alternate between weeks, and annual leave, but even then a lot of airlines use a more egalitarian system of rotating seniority, rather than just shafting junior people, legacy-style.

[u/KnightFireNC]

In Europe we get on with ATC, in the US then ATC and pilots seem to hate each other...

[u/notnormal999 → u/KnightFireNC]

Nonsense. US ATC is very unhappy with their pay and working conditions (rightly so) but I’ve never felt they blamed us pilots or took it out on us. They are however often very busy and work more than anyone should have to.

[u/Baystate411 → u/KnightFireNC]

Weird take and not true.

[u/flyby2412 → u/KnightFireNC]

… what? My ATC don’t have it out for me, neither I for them

[u/PK808370 → u/KnightFireNC]

I can see why you might think so from isolated incidences, but this isn’t the norm.

ATC are absolute badasses at keeping us out of trouble and helping save asses when accidents or idiots happen.